Diet Dry Food Advice

Hello! I am going to create a very specific thread knowing that it may be that no one knows the answer to my questions. However, I have tried to education myself to some degree, and I don't know where to go from here, so I am hoping for someone who perhaps knows a little more than me to guide me in the right direction. To remove the suspense, I am going to ask for advice on what dry food I should select. I have spent this evening trying to answer my own question, and instead have mostly read the benefits of forcing my cats to eat wet food or creating my own raw food. However, I live in an apartment and simply am just not going to be making raw food at this time. I try to do what's best for my cats, but I can't do that right now. And I offer my cats wet food, but my one cat is very particular, and I'm not going to force him, or at least not at this time. i feel like there can only be so much change at one time. 

Anyway, I will try to be succinct in their food history. I have 3 cats who are 8 years old; 2 domestics and 1 exotic. For most of their life, they ate Nutro Indoor Chicken & Whole Brown Rice. 2 years ago, when I moved to my new job, I met a small pet store owner who introduced me to the concept that there was a "ranking" of quality cat foods and she provided me with some samples. I knew my boy would not want to change, because he has never eaten anything but his dry food, even including wet food or treats. But based upon the girls' choices, I transitioned them to Solid Gold Indigo Moon, which is a high- or at least higher-protein diet. They were on this diet for about 1.5 years. However, my female domestic shorthair had a lot of anal gland build-up and issues that really, if they didn't begin, appeared to increased in magnitude on this diet. So I decided to transition them to something with less protein because she couldn't handle it. I brought home a couple samples, not certain what a middle-quality brand would be, and they easily fell back into eating their Nutro again. However, they are now much less sated on it; they become hungry very quickly and want more food more often. When I brought this concern up to my vet, she said to switch to a Weight Management formula, so I switched to the Nutro Weight Management (which I don't know if they are still making at the moment). But if this food did anything, it made, at least, my boy worse. He now wakes me up around 5:00am because he wants breakfast (which he never did before), stands by his bowl begging, and even occasionally comes over to see what I'm eating. I took him to the vet to see if there was a medical cause to his increased appetite, and all of his blood work came back normal. So she instead recommended Hills Prescription Metabolic Weight Management. Now, from what I've read, it seems that Hills seduces vets like pharmaceutical companies seduce doctors, so I doubt she knows anything other than what they've told her and that other people have said in regards to the food working for them. But everything I've read has said that Hills is terrible ingredients-wise (and it looks like it is) and the reason it's so expensive is to fund all of the advertising it does. And I can't figure out what make is "prescription-strength". However, when I delicately asked if I chose not to use Hills I what I should look for, she said "metabolic". But when I search online, the only food that comes up is Hills (and maybe a Purina one). 

One thing I forgot to say. My boy is super picky about his food. He will only eat chicken-flavored and the kibble has to be small. And, additionally, my female domestic just had her teeth pulled, so it would be nice if the kibble was small enough for her not to choke when she inevitably eats it anyway. Even if it is chicken-flavored and small, my boy will still be picky, but the food will at least be in the running.

So, I know that it is unlikely that I will get all, or possibly any, of my questions answered. But they are: Is there anything comparable to "metabolic weight management" or what is the quality that is "metabolic"? Also, what makes it "prescription" strength? I am super frustrated with my cat who won't let me sleep and won't stop crying for food. If anyone has suggestions for a food that is healthy, that will fill up my cats but also won't cause them other issues (like anal gland build-up), I would appreciate the guidance. I don't know how to find a "4-star" cat food. Thanks!!!

First of all, the Weight Management formulas are full of things cats cannot digest, so even though their tummies are full, their inner carnivore is starving for meat and begging for food.  The more of the weight management stuff they eat, the worse they get.  We recently had a thread on here where the member's cat was always hungry, always begging for food, then got diarrhea from overeating the weight management food.  He was starving to death on that diet, and he was only 10 months old.  The vet prescribed it.  The vets don't know, in general, what is in these foods.  They trust the food companies.When she finally got him a meat based food (Orijen), suddenly he was satisfied.  In my very strong opinion, most of the weight management foods have nothing in them that should be fed to a cat.  Here is the thread, read it and check out the ingredients as you go.  Also, the "prescription" requirement was made up by Hills in 1990, not by the FDA and not by the vets.  It is a very clever marketing tool, linking the foods with the vets, and giving the impression it is better than anything else out there because it requires a "prescription."  There is no one overseeing the so called special diet foods other than the companies making them.  The vets assume they are good and "prescribe" them for their clients, and this is what happens. 

http://www.thecatsite.com/t/319123/obsessive-eating

I'm afraid that I'm just going to add to the hard food debate, but maybe not.

I have a two-year male short-hair we named Grady who we adopted through a local Humane Society co-sponsor, Petco, where our poor kitty (who has ocular herpes in both eyes)  sat in a small cage all day at 8 months, waiting to be adopted, which my husband and I did, as we knew he was very special, which he is. And we told he loved his kibble.

Three months after we settled our new boy into our home and switched him to a high quality canned food,  an F-! tornado tore our house apart (no one hurt and we had insurance) leaving the cat, my husband and myself displaced in a hotel for the next five months. We moved back into our rebuilt home last fall.

The first 8 months of our cat Grady's life he lived exclusively on cheap kibble, which is all that could afford on the donations for Petco kittens. But we made sure Grady was exclusively existing on canned food. I was planning on making his food from scratch for him once we settled back in our rebuilt home and life was again organized and I had time. But things didn't work out as I had hoped. You see, my Grady eats salmon-flavored Nature's Instinct canned food, but it's only quiet once again. He's not and never has been nuts about canned food, but he begrudingly eats it. Even more challenging, as weird as it sounds,Grady shows no interest whatsoever in any type of human form of protein, such as like fresh cooked/uncooked chicken, shrimp, salmon, pork, other fish. Nothing from our table appeals to him. So I don't hold out a lot of hope that he would be a good candidate for a raw diet. I'd love to be wrong, but it's an expensive leap to take after all the drama and all the outward signs of his ultra set-in-his-ways  pickiness.

Last time we went to the vet, she gave "him" some kibble to try. He was in heaven. He was so happy, I felt terrible, especially when our vet said that kibble vs canned is a stupid discussion; case closed. Or maybe I need to force him to be healthier on canned or fresh food? I mean understand that no kibble only/mostly diet is a "healthy" or acceptable food plan--for any animal, including our beloved house cats, but does that have to mean that in order to be healthy kibble-loving cat have to learn to eat what's good for him even if he doesn't like it? Kinda like it  or just lump it?

Any and all help or advice would be greatly appreciated, and thank you ahead of time for reading,

Fortunately @Kat0121 has written a review of one of the best dry foods on the market today, ORIJEN.   This is the same dry food that the woman in the thread I mentioned above, "Obsessive eating," finally chose for her kitten who was starving on a "prescription" dry weight management food from her vet.   I think you will both get something out of this review.

http://www.thecatsite.com/products/orijen-cat-kitten-dry-cat-food/reviews/5663

Thank you for the responses! It sounds like "metabolic" doesn't mean anything, and that any weight management/loss formula isn't good for them. I appreciate that clarification, although I was sort of hoping that there was a healthier equivalent so I could follow my vet's advice.

Where I struggle a little bit is that I have 3 cats, and when they were on a higher-protein diet, my one had a harder time with it. I do offer them wet food, but only my girls eat it, and only 1 of them eats it consistently, and she's not the one who had the issues. I have water fountains to encourage them to drink by the food bowls as well, although I know that that is not as good as getting it from their food. I am open to the fact that I should eventually transition them to a "wetter" diet, but I don't want to do it all at once; I think that may be too stressful. And I worry that if someone starts having another issue with the food, I won't have a back-up to fall to, like I did with the Solid Gold. I know Orijen is top of the line, but I also worry that if my girl couldn't handle Solid Gold, she may not be able to handle Orijen. I know I'm asking a question that no one may be able to answer, but when I look for food advice, typically all I can find is manufacturer ratings or a rating of protein-amount, and I guess I don't know what to do for something that balances the needs of all of my cats, because inevitably they all are going to eat what is put out. I know more protein is better, and I've seen it be more filling, but I don't want it to cause more physical stress/health issues for my cats, either. Is there a balance in the dry food market? Like I said, I hear everyone when they say I should force my cats to eat wet food, but I don't want to put that much change into their diets yet, although wet food is always offered to them daily. Anyway, any advice is appreciated. Thank you  

Just a couple quick points:

First, I couldn't agree more, calamitoussquid, that it's best to switch cats from wet/dry to wet only over time. We spent a month or so taking our cats off dry food by cutting back, a little at a time, the amount they got each day. First there was dry food only at night, then that amount went down, gradually, as we increased their wet food during the day. Eventually there was just a garnish of dry food on their last wet meal of the day. And then it was gone. And really, truly forgotten. The cats were young--around a year old when we finished--but had always held out for dry food so I know we were lucky they made the change so (relatively) smoothly. Wet foods are much, much easier to feed our cats, not just because they love them but also because they have some digestive quirks, including a potato sensitivity, and wet food ingredient lists tend to be shorter than those for dry. 

Second, though I've never feed either Solid Gold or Orijen, my personal view is that I wouldn't be too concerned about the experience with Solid Gold: the first ingredient in that food is chicken meal (not meat), followed by potato. The Orijen Red food I looked at leads off with all kinds of meat. I haven't compared the numbers but the composition of the two foods seems so radically different to me that I wouldn't worry too much, though I would definitely proceed with caution. What were your cat's "issues" other than anal gland buildup? It's also quite possible there's an ingredient -- like the potato or peas? -- in the Solid Gold that caused the problem.

At any rate, good luck!

Thanks! I really was just referring to her anal gland issue which led to some other defecating difficulties. And I don't want her to be uncomfortable. But that is a good point regarding the composition of the food. It makes me a little nervous when there are multiple meats because my boy is so picky, but I will definitely look into it. Thank so much! I really appreciate all of your advice.

Just for grins, I am including a list of ingredients in two of the Hills Prescription Diets Metabolic along with the plain old Purine One Turkey & Chicken flavor dry food, all copied from Chewy.com, who so kindly provides lists of ingredients under each food that it sells.

Hills Prescription Diet Metabolic & Urinary Dry Food  $63.04 from Chewy for a 12 lb. bag

Brewers rice, corn gluten meal, powdered cellulose, wheat gluten, chicken meal, dried tomato pomace, chicken liver flavor, soybean oil, flaxseed, coconut oil, l-lysine, fish oil, lactic acid, potassium citrate, potassium chloride, dl-methionine, carrots, choline chloride, taurine, iodized salt, vitamins (vitamin E supplement, niacin supplement, thiamine mononitrate, pyridoxine hydrochloride, calcium pantothenate, riboflavin supplement, biotin, vitamin B12 supplement, vitamin A supplement, folic acid, vitamin D3 supplement), l-carnitine, minerals (ferrous sulfate, zinc oxide, copper sulfate, manganous oxide, calcium iodate, sodium selenite), calcium sulfate, mixed tocopherols for freshness, natural flavors, beta-carotene

Hills Prescription Diet Metabolic Weight Management Chicken Flavor Dry Food- $74.20 for a 17.6 lb. bag from Chewy on sale

Chicken by-product meal, brewers rice, corn gluten meal, powdered cellulose, dried tomato pomace, flaxseed, dried beet pulp, chicken liver flavor, coconut oil, pork fat, lactic acid, potassium chloride, calcium sulfate, l-lysine, choline chloride, carrots, dl-methionine, vitamins (vitamin E supplement, l-ascorbyl-2-polyphosphate (source of vitamin C), niacin supplement, thiamine mononitrate, calcium pantothenate, pyridoxine hydrochloride, vitamin A supplement, riboflavin supplement, biotin, vitamin B12 supplement, folic acid, vitamin D3 supplement), taurine, l-carnitine, minerals (manganese sulfate, ferrous sulfate, zinc oxide, copper sulfate, calcium iodate, sodium selenite), mixed tocopherols for freshness, natural flavors, beta-carotene.

Compare with Purina One Chicken & Turkey Flavor Dry Food - $22.98 for a 16 lb. bag @ Chewy's today

Chicken, brewers rice, corn gluten meal, poultry by-product meal, wheat flour, animal fat preserved with mixed-tocopherols, whole grain corn, soy protein isolate, fish meal, turkey by-product meal, animal liver flavor, phosphoric acid, potassium chloride, salt, caramel color, calcium carbonate, choline chloride, taurine, zinc sulfate, l-lysine monohydrochloride, vitamin E supplement, ferrous sulfate, manganese sulfate, niacin, vitamin A supplement, copper sulfate, calcium pantothenate, thiamine mononitrate, riboflavin supplement, vitamin B12 supplement, pyridoxine hydrochloride, folic acid, vitamin D3 supplement, calcium iodate, biotin, menadione sodium bisulfite complex (source of vitamin K activity), sodium selenite

I am not saying that Purina One is a terrific dry food, but it IS the only one that has a MUSCLE MEAT (chicken) as its number one ingredient, and it does cost $40 to $50 a bag LESS than the others.  It does not contain any powdered cellulose or dried tomato pomace which is basically nothing but indigestable fiber, and flax seeds if not ground just pass through the body undigested. Much of these diets will pass right through the cat withut giving him any nourishment, only the feeling of fullness. Also, note that both the Hills prescription diets add DL-methionine, an inexpensive man-made version of methionine, because there is nothing in their ingredients that provides methionine and without it, cats will not grow.  Yet kittens should not be exposed to DL-methionine, and it can cause loss of appetite, diarrhea, vomiting and anemia, so kittens and adult cats who overeat this food can become ill.  The fish in the Purina food provides this amino acid in its natural form and is not dangerous. We can hope and trust that everything that is lacking in the ingredients of the Prescription Diet has been replaced chemically, but is that really a good idea?  Why not just use meat?

You would think that at the prices they charge for the prescription diets, they would at least have good ingredients, but they don't.  The moral is, read labels, look up ingredients you don't understand, and choose wisely. 

Red Top Rescue said:

You would think that at the prices they charge for the prescription diets, they would at least have good ingredients, but they don't.  The moral is, read labels, look up ingredients you don't understand, and choose wisely. 

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Most depressing is that the super-expensive first food you list doesn't have any muscle meat at all! All it has is chicken meal.

What you say about reading labels is so true. I've also found that re-reading labels and checking Web sites every now and then is important because ingredient lists do change.

I adopted a young cat whose previous owners had allowed him to balloon from 9 lbs to 13 lbs when they returned him to the shelter, probably from free feeding dry food. Although I believe in feeding as much wet food as possible, for reasons of economy and convenience it isn't always possible to feed wet food exclusively. Without getting into a debate about the quality of ingredients, the problem with most dry foods is that they simply have too many calories if you were trying to take weight off a cat. You end up giving them far too little food to keep them satisfied. This applies even to most of the diet formulas and certainly applies to the high-end foods such as Orijen. A food with 300 calories per cup works much better then one with 450 which is typical of most foods. That said, your choices are quite limited. The food that work best for us, balancing ingredients and price, is Science Diet Perfect Weight. Chicken is the first ingredient and it does not contain by-products, although it does contain ingredients such as corn gluten which some folks will not feed. However you do not need to feed the food forever and if you feed several small measured meals a day you should be able to take the weight off your fatter cats. I also feed it to the cat who doesn't have a weight problem. It has 300 calories a cup and a 3 lb bag is about $11 on Amazon.

Gradys Mommy said:

I'm afraid that I'm just going to add to the hard food debate, but maybe not.

I have a two-year male short-hair we named Grady who we adopted through a local Humane Society co-sponsor, Petco, where our poor kitty (who has ocular herpes in both eyes)  sat in a small cage all day at 8 months, waiting to be adopted, which my husband and I did, as we knew he was very special, which he is. And we told he loved his kibble.

Three months after we settled our new boy into our home and switched him to a high quality canned food,  an F-! tornado tore our house apart (no one hurt and we had insurance) leaving the cat, my husband and myself displaced in a hotel for the next five months. We moved back into our rebuilt home last fall.

The first 8 months of our cat Grady's life he lived exclusively on cheap kibble, which is all that could afford on the donations for Petco kittens. But we made sure Grady was exclusively existing on canned food. I was planning on making his food from scratch for him once we settled back in our rebuilt home and life was again organized and I had time. But things didn't work out as I had hoped. You see, my Grady eats salmon-flavored Nature's Instinct canned food, but it's only quiet once again. He's not and never has been nuts about canned food, but he begrudingly eats it. Even more challenging, as weird as it sounds,Grady shows no interest whatsoever in any type of human form of protein, such as like fresh cooked/uncooked chicken, shrimp, salmon, pork, other fish. Nothing from our table appeals to him. So I don't hold out a lot of hope that he would be a good candidate for a raw diet. I'd love to be wrong, but it's an expensive leap to take after all the drama and all the outward signs of his ultra set-in-his-ways  pickiness.

Last time we went to the vet, she gave "him" some kibble to try. He was in heaven. He was so happy, I felt terrible, especially when our vet said that kibble vs canned is a stupid discussion; case closed. Or maybe I need to force him to be healthier on canned or fresh food? I mean understand that no kibble only/mostly diet is a "healthy" or acceptable food plan--for any animal, including our beloved house cats, but does that have to mean that in order to be healthy kibble-loving cat have to learn to eat what's good for him even if he doesn't like it? Kinda like it  or just lump it?

Any and all help or advice would be greatly appreciated, and thank you ahead of time for reading,

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It's like letting kids pick their own food! McDonalds or grilled meat and vegetables!

bonepicker said:

It's like letting kids pick their own food! McDonalds or grilled meat and vegetables!

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There is, indeed, something to this!

Some cats can be surprising, @Gradys Mommy! When our senior cat was in her last months, the food she was most willing to eat (and she was sick with multiple ailments that reduced her appetite to pretty much nothing) was raw food, chicken Rad Cat. We'd fed her only dry food for some years then started giving her some canned Fancy Feast, too, though she much preferred the kinds loaded with wheat gluten to the Classics, which are much healthier. She'd never much liked bits of cooked meat when she was healthy, either. All of which is to say that I was very surprised she ate several kinds of raw food more willingly than she would eat most canned.

There are so many kinds of canned foods on the market that most people are able to find wet foods their cats will eat. Some favorite brands for picky cats seem to be Nutro Natural Choice (our pickier cat loves those) and Weruva. Our picker cat eats best with the Nutro, Rad Cat, Tiki Cat, and the homemade food I make with EZcomplete. It can take time to figure out what healthier foods a cat will eat but it's definitely worth the effort! Sometimes a dusting of treats, like chicken Pure Bites, can coax a cat to eat.