Baycox and Albon - Coccidia Kittens

crazyfurlady

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Hi there, I'm a foster mom for rescue kittens and as always coccidia is rampant. I have baycox on hand but vet prescribed albon, which I know from experience helps but takes a very long time and reinfection is frequent. Does anyone know how soon after giving albon I can administer baycox? I don't want to poison the little darlings but I have lots kittens in the past from severe dehydration related to coccidia so I want to knock this out quickly!
 

red top rescue

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Quoted from Catster:

There are two commonly used treatments for coccidia. Albon has been around for ages. Its use for the treatment of coccidia is off-label. It has loads of potential side effects. And, in my experience, it is barely effective.

Ponazuril has been used as a coccidia treatment in horses for a long time, and its use (also off-label) in cats and dogs has been documented since at least 2006. In my experience, it wipes coccidia out with just a dose or two. It is readily available in the U.S. through major veterinary compounding pharmacies such as Roadrunner, Wedgewood, or BCP. A profile of the drug is included in the most recent edition of Plumb’s, which is the veterinary drug bible. A quick search on VIN (an online resource for veterinarians) reveals dozens of discussions about and descriptions of the use of ponazuril. Ponazuril has been recommended in at least a half dozen continuing education lectures that I have attended over the last five years.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

@catwoman707 is a big proponent of ponazuril, and she works in rescue. "Baycox" is a very similar drug called toltrazuril.  I don't see any reason to wait -- albon is now a thing of the past for coccidia, and ponazuril or toltrazuril are much better.  Here is a thread from awhile ago discussing same:

http://www.thecatsite.com/t/284501/bottle-kitten-suspect-coccidia-how-long-before-albon-works
 
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crazyfurlady

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I've had decent luck with baycox (which I have on hand) but the vet administered albon today before I knew, I was in another room. I saw somewhere on a coccidia forum not to administer the same day so I was nervous about how much time should lapse before it's safe to give it. Maybe by tomorrow should be ok? I might reference these are very small kittens, 4-5 weeks so very sensitive systems, I don't want to overload them with strong medicine
 

red top rescue

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Oh, I see, they already had it today.  I did not know that.  Definitely follow the instructions from the coccidia forum then. 
 

catwoman707

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As you know, kittens will get dehydrated very easily/fast, so when there is diarrhea, make sure to keep them well hydrated.

Baycox is an alternative to ponazuril and close in relation, if you can get ponazuril aka marquis paste before dilution, I highly recommend it.

Once I discovered how fast and effective it is, the big bottle of albon ultimately was tossed, there is just no comparison, and this is because albon simply inhibits the coccidia cysts growth and relies on the body to handle the rest over time, months sometimes, where ponazuril  actually kills the cysts and eggs, meaning wiping out the intruder once and for all in just one dose a day, I give 3 doses to kittens, and 5 in adults.

Never have had any reactions to it, regardless of age.

Recommended dilution is 5 mls of marquis paste to 12 mls water, until I had a vet tell me to dilute closer to 1 to 1, which is what I use now.

Personally, I would only wait 1 day after getting albon before giving ponazuril or baycox.

I don't see the single dose of albon being a problem.

Let the vet know you plan on giving baycox tmrw.
 

fifimanchu

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I've run a shelter for about 10 years now, but there's always things to learn.  We have become more sanctuary than rescue/adoption (another story).  Most of the cats are uncaged (yeah, they've been snap-tested) in different rooms. The down side to this is that it is difficult to determine which cat has diarrhea, but we figure it out as best we can and treat them.  I've been very, very disappointed in our local vets regarding treatments, so I've read thru some of these threads.

I got an outdoor stray that was fed scraps of Spagettios, onion rings, bread, Trix cereal, Kraft Mac & Cheese, etc. by poor folks who got their own food from the local food pantry. On one hand, generous of them; on the other hand, not so good for people or cats.  Imagine, I had Bjork go thru months and months of dripping fecal matter (usually green or gray) treating her thusly:  Probiotic powder, rice, yeast fiber powder, yogurt & pumpkin (never met a cat that liked either), Pyrantel (yes, more than once, with gaps, then tried again with gaps) ditto Profender and tape pills, Albon, Panacur, Depo (yes, more than once) Convenia (the Emporer's clothes of all medicines in my opinion--I start all vet visits with noting on all paperwork that I am allergic to it, it's cost and it's ineffectiveness) and Flagyl, a very low dose.

I will pause here for this important message:  On the 3rd day of giving this poor cat Flagyl, it suddenly flopped over, went into seizure, foamed at the mouth and shot blood out of its butt like a fire hose. Of course, this was after 6 pm on a Sunday.  The whole thing happened so suddenly that we expected she wouldn't make it to the vet if one had been available.  After 20 minutes, it stopped.  The short of it is that she lived thru this and I will never use the stuff again.

On Monday, we took her to a local vet who took a liquidy stool sample into another room and minutes later declared Bjork had round worms.  This, after I showed her--no kidding--a FULL to the last page, small legal pad itemizing what this poor thing had already received.  I paid my bill and left.

I stumbled upon a semi-cure:  A daily regimen of both Panacur and Orbax.  The dripping was lessened and stool color normal and even sometimes semi-solid.

By the way, I tried Blue, Wellness, et al, plus A/D and all yer fancier foods.

Bjork ended up at a friend's sanctuary that can accommodate a dripping cat.

This was several years ago, when my shelter was on a very limited budget.  Now we have a better budget and I use two vets that listen to what I say.  I am going to try Ponazuril in the future because Albon has simply never worked.  So I thank you all for the Ponazuril tip.  Never had the budget to get fecal tests but might do that here and there too.
 

catwoman707

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I've run a shelter for about 10 years now, but there's always things to learn.  We have become more sanctuary than rescue/adoption (another story).  Most of the cats are uncaged (yeah, they've been snap-tested) in different rooms. The down side to this is that it is difficult to determine which cat has diarrhea, but we figure it out as best we can and treat them.  I've been very, very disappointed in our local vets regarding treatments, so I've read thru some of these threads.

I got an outdoor stray that was fed scraps of Spagettios, onion rings, bread, Trix cereal, Kraft Mac & Cheese, etc. by poor folks who got their own food from the local food pantry. On one hand, generous of them; on the other hand, not so good for people or cats.  Imagine, I had Bjork go thru months and months of dripping fecal matter (usually green or gray) treating her thusly:  Probiotic powder, rice, yeast fiber powder, yogurt & pumpkin (never met a cat that liked either), Pyrantel (yes, more than once, with gaps, then tried again with gaps) ditto Profender and tape pills, Albon, Panacur, Depo (yes, more than once) Convenia (the Emporer's clothes of all medicines in my opinion--I start all vet visits with noting on all paperwork that I am allergic to it, it's cost and it's ineffectiveness) and Flagyl, a very low dose.

I will pause here for this important message:  On the 3rd day of giving this poor cat Flagyl, it suddenly flopped over, went into seizure, foamed at the mouth and shot blood out of its butt like a fire hose. Of course, this was after 6 pm on a Sunday.  The whole thing happened so suddenly that we expected she wouldn't make it to the vet if one had been available.  After 20 minutes, it stopped.  The short of it is that she lived thru this and I will never use the stuff again.

On Monday, we took her to a local vet who took a liquidy stool sample into another room and minutes later declared Bjork had round worms.  This, after I showed her--no kidding--a FULL to the last page, small legal pad itemizing what this poor thing had already received.  I paid my bill and left.

I stumbled upon a semi-cure:  A daily regimen of both Panacur and Orbax.  The dripping was lessened and stool color normal and even sometimes semi-solid.

By the way, I tried Blue, Wellness, et al, plus A/D and all yer fancier foods.

Bjork ended up at a friend's sanctuary that can accommodate a dripping cat.

This was several years ago, when my shelter was on a very limited budget.  Now we have a better budget and I use two vets that listen to what I say.  I am going to try Ponazuril in the future because Albon has simply never worked.  So I thank you all for the Ponazuril tip.  Never had the budget to get fecal tests but might do that here and there too.
I have a cat rescue group and since discovering the 'wonders' of ponazuril, I have fixed countless cats and kittens with it, fast, once a day short treatment and bam, gone. 

This includes many who's fecal float showed nothing.

I highly recommend asking a vet to get you the big tube of marquis paste, simply take a small amt and dilute slightly, enough so it will draw through the 1 ml syringe, once mixed store in fridge for up to a month, tube has a room temp shelf life of somewhere around 2 years, even once it expires it still works great, well worth the investment of about $200-250.00

I swear by the stuff.
 
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fifimanchu

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Thanks and thanks again.  There are so many times over the years that I've thought there should be a support group for rescue workers, especially those of us that have to oversee the medical conditions of our cats.  It is so helpful to go into a vet's office with an idea of what you need, especially if you've alrady tried the standard issue stuff already (Convenia, Albon, Pyrantel, Clavamox, Depo, whatever).

And then another sub-support group for how to avoid bad adoptions.  I live in an area that is very financially challenged, with an over abundance of folks that are 5th generation welfare recips (that's the stats).  Undercharging for an adoption occurs at both our rescue and at the local APL.  Adopters, even with a few phone calls (verify landlord okays & addresses), have learned to navigate the questions.  Calling vets might work, unless it's a first time pet owner.  Many of the people under 35 are frequently evicted, thus our cats are abandoned and, at best, returned.  We get disheartened.  At this point, we'd like to adopt outside of our county.  Anyway, thanks.
 

catwoman707

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Thanks and thanks again.  There are so many times over the years that I've thought there should be a support group for rescue workers, especially those of us that have to oversee the medical conditions of our cats.  It is so helpful to go into a vet's office with an idea of what you need, especially if you've alrady tried the standard issue stuff already (Convenia, Albon, Pyrantel, Clavamox, Depo, whatever).

And then another sub-support group for how to avoid bad adoptions.  I live in an area that is very financially challenged, with an over abundance of folks that are 5th generation welfare recips (that's the stats).  Undercharging for an adoption occurs at both our rescue and at the local APL.  Adopters, even with a few phone calls (verify landlord okays & addresses), have learned to navigate the questions.  Calling vets might work, unless it's a first time pet owner.  Many of the people under 35 are frequently evicted, thus our cats are abandoned and, at best, returned.  We get disheartened.  At this point, we'd like to adopt outside of our county.  Anyway, thanks.
My suggestions would be, to have them sign a contract upon adopting that states that, if under any circumstances they are unable to keep the cat, that they will return him/her to you.

Even years later.

Also, if they are microchipped by you prior to adopting, at least that will help if they end up at the shelter, etc.

I would also use craigslist and facebook hugely to post cats available for adopting, I use rescuegroups which sends to all the major sites, petfinder, adopt-a-pet, and so on.

I also have a couple of volunteers who post on craigslist.

This is great since you can choose the areas you want them to be seen in.
 

fifimanchu

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I don't mean to be contrary, but the kind of folks that would dump a pet would not honor a contract.  They are often dumping the cat/dog as they are throwing garbage bags of their stuff in a friend's trunk or pick-up, on the day or night of their eviction.  Our adoption form informs them in large block letters that we will take back our cats at any time for any reason, forever.  In fact, we recently got one back after 4 years.  So all this requires, then, is that they pick up a phone and dial 7 numbers--our number.  Many people throw their paper work out like a grocery receipt.  You can tell them not to do this, but there you have it.  Chipping the cats is not in our budget.  But say it was.  Do we have time to pursue these people for dumping a cat?  They are usually being evicted because they have no money.

At best, they call.  I met a young couple who surrendered their cat the day of eviction.  Then they called me Christmas Eve to meet them in a dollar store parking lot to give me their large dog because they were living out of their truck.  I don't really have a place to put dogs, but I found a friend who held it over until I could take it to the APL the next day.  Merry Christmas.  They were both young addicts. Gotten guinea pigs etc this way too.  When I am called to donate some cat food to someone in need, I have to give them small bags cuz I learned that some of them sell the pet food for a cheap bag of dope.  Our area is particularly plagued by meth and heroin.  I'm getting pretty good at sussing out addicts, but some become addicts after the adoption.

I am aware of Petfinder et al.  I wouldn't do Craigs List tho.  Our local APL has not had good experience with that site.  But yes, there are many others.  Right now, I am trying to figure out how to weed out the less obvious non-contenders.  Call it my "come to Jesus" moment, if you will.  Are we being too fussy to want our cats to be fed, at the very least, a brand name cat food (i.e., Purina etc) and, if the cat really looks forward to a small amount of wet food along with it, that too?  If the cat is shy, should we let them "try it out" with their dog? Or a very nice but loud child?   By shy, I mean it will be 100% likely to hide for 2-4 weeks under the sofa or bed (if confined in smaller room at first--but who takes that advice?).  And then rarely come out anyhow later?  Do you adopt a cat to someone who also has snakes?  Do you adopt a cat to someone living in a trailer park or low income housing area with dozens of friendly un-rescued strays?  Do you adopt a cat to someone who's friend or relative comes in their place because they are too overweight or disabled in some other way to leave their home?  Do you adopt very young kittens to people in their 80's?  Do you adopt to grandparents who want a friendly cat in their barn to lure their grandchildren to visit them more often?

If I may traject to a related adoption topic, and maybe it's another thread (I don't know from threads), but what do you make of people who may be well-heeled (so money isn't the issue), but wouldn't give an older cat wet food if that's what the cat needed due to previous dental extractions?  The reason is that the lady didn't like the smell of canned food in her house.  She wanted a pretty, mature cat of ours and would give it a good home otherwise, but it needed wet food.  Let's say, to broaden the question, you have a cat that doesn't need soft wet food, but really, really likes it, but the adopter doesn't wanna buy canned food for some reason.  Do you adopt to them?  Do you adopt to people who can't afford any cat food except for Cat Cafe ( the lowest grade)?  Ferals won't even eat that.  Do you adopt to people who could afford nice vacations or live well but buy Cat Cafe for their cat?  Since you don't always know this is what will happen (some tell you, some lie), what you get is a cat with urinary or kidney problems that, if you are lucky (?) they will return to you after 4 years (see above) because they wouldn't dream of paying money to a vet for a cat.  Ironically, the wife of this mature couple wasn't taken to the doctor's for her own urinary problems and ended up in the hospital for 6 weeks.  They had a beautiful home, landscaped yard, spoke politely, neighbors all liked 'em.  Where did I go wrong?  What did I miss?  All of them say they will care for the cat.  All of refer to some local vet that will will use.  All of 'em talk baby talk to them and cuddle with them and get teary eyed.  All of 'em post cutesy-wootsy pictures & selfies with their cats.

I feel like we are a MASH unit in a somewhat hostile neck of the woods.  But I am sure some of these questions arise at any rescue.
 

catwoman707

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@fifimanchu  I am happy to continue this conversation with you, but I'm afraid we are hijacking this thread, just above the title of this thread you will see a dropdown menu for the various forums, click on one that you think this discussion might fit under, and start your own thread so we don't offend anyone here :)

Good subject though really!

Be sure to copy/paste your last post so I can give you my input/opinions for the questions.
 
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fifimanchu

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Sorry to all who were hijacked by my meandering off topic. Just a little weary.   I don't even know where to take this discussion so I better bow out for now.  Thank you.
 

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I just wanted to chime in about treating coccidia. I've been fostering since 2007 and have had many kittens suffering from it. A few years ago one of the vets in town prescribed Baycox and sold a bottle of it to our local HS. They recommend giving a one time dose to kittens to prevent infestations. I've only had orphaned kittens suffer from it, which I believe is due partly to stress. I have Baycox on hand and it generally takes a dose of once a day for 2-3 days. Baycox kills the coccidia and is very effective. I have never heard of Ponazuril but I live in Canada so perhaps why. I've also found that fecals end up negative even when the kitten is clearly in distress. Treating, the kitten improves dramatically in the firs 24 - 48hrs.
 
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