Pee habit mystery

I know cats peeing outside of the litter box has several causes, but I find my cat's situation just a little baffling.

She will pee right outside of the litter box, like clockwork, right after it is cleaned.  Now I understood when some of my cats would go somewhere other than the litter box because it had NOT been cleaned, but why would a cat do this, every week, the very same night/morning when it IS clean?

A little background information.

My moggie, Tymora, is 16 years old.  I think.  She was my sister's originally, I took over her care when my sister moved into a no pet apartment.  She has had a few urinary/kidney infections before.  Now when she had these infections, yes, she peed outside of the litter box, but it was only once or twice, and it usually was dark and had blood in it.  This recent habit of hers, the urine is mostly clear and there is no visible sign of blood.  And like I said, clockwork.  Always Tuesday night/Wednesday morning.

I have heard that if cats have painful urination, they come to associate the littler box with that pain and will seek other places to relieve themselves.  However, the rest of the time she uses the cat box just fine.  She is also a fairly clean cat - she NEVER used to pee anywhere else.  And if this was incontinence, she would be peeing all over the place, right?  And not on a schedule.

I can't tell what my cat is trying to communicate, and usually I can understand her antics fairly well.  But this has me baffled.  If it were an infection, there would be other symptoms I imagine, and it wouldn't just happen in the middle of the week.

I /DO/ know that her kidneys have reduced in size.  One time when I had brought her to the vet, he helped me to palpate the area to feel how small and hard they'd gotten.  After that we got her a fountain, and I've also placed more water sources throughout the house (not all of them fountains, though).  I've tried switching her diet, but she is frightfully stubborn about eating her same old grain-filled dry cat food.  She doesn't even like wet food.  If she were younger, I'd just not let her eat anything else and force her to eat it or starve, relying on her instincts of self preservation, but at this age, I dare not attempt something like that.  So I mix in healthier food with some of her dry.  It was good, because she HAD lost some weight really fast, and she's gained it back.  But then this has started, and has been going on for a couple months now.  Every Tuesday/Wednesday....  I just... I just can't figure out WHY.  And that bothers me.

On a side note, we think she has arthritis in her hips.  I don't give her painkillers - I know better.  I occasionally give her some catnip as she is more like to become super relaxed rather than super hyper.  I also massage her hips.  Again, don't know how that would explain this behavior.

Well, what do you think?  Why do you suppose she would rebel against a clean litter box?

So you thoroughly clean her box on Tuesday night//Wednesday morning?  That's the difference at that time?  Obviously there is some correlation between those things, if I am understanding you correctly.  What do you clean the box with...could it be whatever cleaner you use?  Do you have other cats that help disperse the smell of the cleaner until she feels she can use it safely again?  Or do you move the litter around a bit during the day until maybe the odor of the cleanser has dissipated?   I'm grasping at straws, but can't think of anything else.

It Is strange.  Do you have any backup boxes? 

BTW, Cosequin for Cats is great for beginning arthritis, and supposedly good for kidneys too.  I had a kidney cat who was on it.  You can buy it on Amazon or probably at any big box pet supply store.  You just sprinkle it on their food (sticks better to wet, but what are you gonna do?) 

 What I mean by clean is remove waste, and add more litter if necessary.  I have no other cats.  Sometimes if the litter box seems to smell strongly before the scheduled clean/change time, just shaking it around helps a bit.

It is a covered litter box, the sort that has a tray and filter, so you roll it over, it catches wet/clumpy litter and feces in a tray that is then easily pulled out and disposed of.  It might be that the disturbance kicks up some sort of smell my cat doesn't like.  And once every few months (or longer if things have been hectic) it's time to empty it out completely, haul it outside, and spray it out with a hose.  Nothing more than a mild, scentless antibiotic soap is usually used, and in small amounts, and it is thoroughly washed.

For a while we had two litter boxes, because we have several cats.  But we had to put two of them down, and one disappeared, so soon we had just one cat, the aforementioned Tymora.  So we didn't get rid of the extra box the same day that we got rid of our cats, and even changed them both out of habit.  We learned that Tymora has started using one exclusively to urinate, and one exclusively to defecate.  So she had her own pee box and her own poo box - this is how meticulous this cat is.  Of course it's been a couple years since we got rid of the other box, and this peeing outside of the box thing only started semi-recently, so it isn't protesting the loss of having her pee and poop separate.

Maybe she is just a really weird cat.  Ah, speak of the devil she is crying.  I have a feeling today will be a sore-hips day.

Thanks for the info on Cosequin, I will look into it.  Although I probably won't be getting it from Amazon.  I live in Canada, and Amazon.ca is a HUGE rip-off.  There will be things that are WAY more expensive to buy on Amazon.ca that for exceeds the difference in currency value.  I'll see if I can find a store that sells it local, or another online source.

So I THINK you are saying her box is a "self cleaning" (to a point) litter box?  Hmmm.  Well, I've never used one of those, I just scoop out all their boxes in the morning and again at night and have never had a problem except when our little kidney cat had a UTI.

Gosh, I'd think the times when you would have an issue would be when the box NEEDED to be cleaned, not just AFTER it was emptied .  If it happened any other times, I might suspect her arthritis were acting up and suggest a lower edged litter box, but since the times are so specific, don't see how that can be .  Sorry, I've got nothing to suggest other than to possibly put down a puppy pad on those days when you clean to help catch her mess for easier clean up.

As to the Cosequin, it should be available in most pet supply stores, since Amazon doesn't agree with you in Canada.

Man, I need a pet psychologist to figure this one out.  But, yes, that is why it's weird.  I can understand random peeing outside because of arthritis, I can understand peeing outside because it's unclean, but pee outside when it's freshly clean?  It is just so WEIRD.

I wonder if it is a symptom of dementia?  I wonder what would happen if I moved the box. But that would be cruel at her age.

I think that she probably doesn't care for something that happens after the process you use to clean her box and it takes a day for the other smell she finds unpleasant to dissipate

When you use a roll type box, you're effectively coating the entire box with their pee and poop smell as you 'clean' it. You might find that switching to a regular covered - or even open - box helps solve this on its own.

I think it's highly unlikely to be dementia at this stage - the peeing would be more random if that were the case.

It would definitely be worth looking into supplementation for her arthritis though - making her more comfortable can only help the situation. There are many food based supplements out there. Green lipped mussel based supplements can be very good, as can turmeric and even devil's claw. Do run anything you're considering past your vet first though - especially in view of the kidney issues. They won't necessarily agree that it'll help (my vet is highly skeptical of this sort of supplementation - though it's definitely worked wonders for my lab), but you need to be certain that it won't cause any harm.

Hmm, I guess I will have to change litter boxes.  But we've had the roll over kind for several years without much trouble.  I guess it's the change in behaviour without a change in environment/stimulus that has me the most concerned.  But it would make sense if it 'unsettles' and causes the smell to be more, I don't know, aerated?  

Sorry for taking so long to respond - I do appreciate your comments.  I'd just been unwell and sitting at a computer was even too much for a while.

I will likely take her to a vet with general concerns and slip in questions about various supplements and get his take.  He's a pretty friendly guy and easy to talk to.  He's a bit old, though.  I dread when he retires and I have to find a new vet.  But that is neither here nor there.

Still...... she IS a weird cat sometimes.  One of the cleanest I've known.  I remember one time she got locked in a room for most of the day.  I thought she was just outside and kept checking the back door for her.  Finally, while passing by that part of the house (it was a room converted from a garage,, so it was a bit out of the way and fairly soundproof) I heard a faint muffled meowing.  I opened the door, and despite probably being trapped in there for 16 hours or so, I searched high and low for accidents.  There were none.  So I take it seriously when she pees anywhere but her litter box because she is VERY particular about keeping a waste-free environment.

Actually, she is so good at not having accidents or using waste as a statement, I wish I could clone her and sell her.

Of course, vomiting is the exception.  She doesn't have much control over that.

I guess it just comes down to age.  She probably just doesn't have the same tolerance for things (smells etc( than she used to have.  I mean, when people get old they get less patient (if my mother is any example) so why not cats?

You mentioned she has a vomiting issue?  Have you started up a thread about that?  We might be able to assist you with that, even though we couldn't help with this mystery peeing issue