desperate for advice my beloved 8 yr old cat

hey all.

i picked up timone today. so far the only thing that showed up was his cardio BNP the normal is 100 and his was 600.still no answers.symptoms and conditiona are the same.

thanks everyone

Dezarae Ashlee said:

 
hey all.

i picked up timone today. so far the only thing that showed up was his cardio BNP the normal is 100 and his was 600.still no answers.symptoms and conditiona are the same.

thanks everyone

Click to expand...

So the vet doesn't think this result has anything to do with his seizures?  

no they said that they werent sure basically and maybe i should see a neurologist.im looking into getting one of those collars that check the cats heart,resp,sleep etc. to help drs understand whats happening in him.the only other symptoms he has now is like a cold or upper resp infection.freezing cold nasal drips,watery eyes, and evry once in awhile he wheezes.sneezes a lot.his seizures are down now that he is on the pheno but it seems like he is stuck in the aura phase right before the seizure.he is jmostly in a daze or staring off at something,he is responseive but deff not his usual active happy self.thank you for asking!

I think that's just a side effect of the pheno.  It could be that he hasn't reached a therapeutic level yet and what you are seeing IS the aura.  It takes several weeks to reach therapeutic range (if they didn't give him IV loading doses.)  

Nat has never been himself on pheno.  He is less active.  He lies down to eat or drink water sometimes because I give him the pheno right before a meal (that's the time I can most likely catch him.)  Of course the seizures themselves are responsible too for the change in his behavior.  Seizures are not benign events.  The brain suffers lack of oxygen with the grand mal seizures and they don't recover from that.  I've gotten used to the new Nat  Poor baby. 

I wonder if upper respiratory has something to do with it because Nat has always had a drippy eye.  It was much worse back when I used Swheat Scoop litter, he used to sneeze all the time and his right eye would run.  It's been checked out numerous times by different vets.  This has been going on long before the seizures started though.  

Also you mentioned that your kitty was losing hair?  Is he pulling it out?  Nat pulled out his own fur on the sides of his body around the time of the seizures and before I got him on his current therapeutic dose of pheno.  Now he doesn't pull it out so much, but only sometimes.  He's always been a nervous kitty, more nervous than the others.  

That collar sounds like a good idea.  At least you'd have more information to give to the neurologist if you plan on seeing him.  

Dezarae Ashlee said:

 
hey all.

i picked up timone today. so far the only thing that showed up was his cardio BNP the normal is 100 and his was 600.

Click to expand...

I note BNP. Do you mean Blood Pressure at 600?

Blood pressure is usually measured as systolic over diastolic levels. A single figure of just 600 usually means the systolic blood pressure and this seems exceedingly high  - you should discuss this with your veterinary surgeon.

@Geoffrey

http://my.clevelandclinic.org/services/heart

I don't know this will help BUT, you mentioned he's not drinking a lot of water and you feed him dry cat food.

I'm shocked no one's told you how awful even the supposed BEST DRY catfood is.

It's poison in my opinion and I've had over 35 cats in my adulthood and currently have 5.

If he's not drinking enough water and only eating dry food he could develop so many other issues: DIABETES is number one, also crystals in urinary tract (males tend to have more issues with this and he is a male cat).

We ONLY feed wet food.  We can't afford the best but Friskies canned in ONLY chicken turkey and fish flavors and ONLY pate' or "flaked".  ABSOLUTELY NOTHING with gravy.

Because your kitty is so sick, my worry is that he could develop more issues and without getting enough fluids, all sorts of bad things can happen.

Wet food has a real high water content, AND my cats still drink from the water bowl occasionally.  Wet food actually turned my diabetic 26 Lb. Female (MJ) into a NON-DIABETIC 18 Lb. "petite' girl!

I also agree with the phenobarb.  Have you tried that? 

Maybe NOW isn't a good time to completely switch him to wet food but I'd present him with some occasionally until you could make a total swap to canned.

We swear by it now.  ALSO, if you do decide to try canned remember ONLY pate' style, nothing with gravy, and even the pate has like a quarter inch of gravy slimy fat at the bottom of the can which I open the can and run hot water into it to flush out that nasty stuff, then drain it off.  If extra water then gets mixed into the "chunk" of pate' in the can BETTER yet, MORE WATER FOR kitty.

I'm so sorry I didn't give you any answers for your baby's actual issues, and am so sorry you are BOTH having to go through such an awful time.   Please try wet food- even as a treat at first.  I will never feed a cat dry food ever again (cheaper but ended up costing us 5 GRAND with MJ's diabetes before we made the swap.)

Please keep us posted.  You and your baby are certainly in my thoughts.

-Sandi

KrazyCatLady13 said:

I don't know this will help BUT, you mentioned he's not drinking a lot of water and you feed him dry cat food.
I'm shocked no one's told you how awful even the supposed BEST DRY catfood is.

It's poison in my opinion and I've had over 35 cats in my adulthood and currently have 5.

If he's not drinking enough water and only eating dry food he could develop so many other issues: DIABETES is number one, also crystals in urinary tract (males tend to have more issues with this and he is a male cat).

We ONLY feed wet food.  We can't afford the best but Friskies canned in ONLY chicken turkey and fish flavors and ONLY pate' or "flaked".  ABSOLUTELY NOTHING with gravy.

Because your kitty is so sick, my worry is that he could develop more issues and without getting enough fluids, all sorts of bad things can happen.

Wet food has a real high water content, AND my cats still drink from the water bowl occasionally.  Wet food actually turned my diabetic 26 Lb. Female (MJ) into a NON-DIABETIC 18 Lb. "petite' girl!

I also agree with the phenobarb.  Have you tried that? 

Maybe NOW isn't a good time to completely switch him to wet food but I'd present him with some occasionally until you could make a total swap to canned.

We swear by it now.  ALSO, if you do decide to try canned remember ONLY pate' style, nothing with gravy, and even the pate has like a quarter inch of gravy slimy fat at the bottom of the can which I open the can and run hot water into it to flush out that nasty stuff, then drain it off.  If extra water then gets mixed into the "chunk" of pate' in the can BETTER yet, MORE WATER FOR kitty.

I'm so sorry I didn't give you any answers for your baby's actual issues, and am so sorry you are BOTH having to go through such an awful time.   Please try wet food- even as a treat at first.  I will never feed a cat dry food ever again (cheaper but ended up costing us 5 GRAND with MJ's diabetes before we made the swap.)

Please keep us posted.  You and your baby are certainly in my thoughts.
-Sandi

Click to expand...

Why no gravy? That gives liquid. I thought fish was bad for male kitties Re crystals.

Ginny said:

@Geoffrey

http://my.clevelandclinic.org/services/heart

Click to expand...

Ginny, I am sorry but I don't understand your reference.

Regards, Geoffrey

KrazyCatLady13 said:

 
I don't know this will help BUT, you mentioned he's not drinking a lot of water and you feed him dry cat food.

I'm shocked no one's told you how awful even the supposed BEST DRY catfood is.

It's poison in my opinion and I've had over 35 cats in my adulthood and currently have 5.

If he's not drinking enough water and only eating dry food he could develop so many other issues: DIABETES is number one, also crystals in urinary tract (males tend to have more issues with this and he is a male cat).

We ONLY feed wet food.  We can't afford the best but Friskies canned in ONLY chicken turkey and fish flavors and ONLY pate' or "flaked".  ABSOLUTELY NOTHING with gravy.

Because your kitty is so sick, my worry is that he could develop more issues and without getting enough fluids, all sorts of bad things can happen.

Wet food has a real high water content, AND my cats still drink from the water bowl occasionally.  Wet food actually turned my diabetic 26 Lb. Female (MJ) into a NON-DIABETIC 18 Lb. "petite' girl!

I also agree with the phenobarb.  Have you tried that? 

Maybe NOW isn't a good time to completely switch him to wet food but I'd present him with some occasionally until you could make a total swap to canned.

We swear by it now.  ALSO, if you do decide to try canned remember ONLY pate' style, nothing with gravy, and even the pate has like a quarter inch of gravy slimy fat at the bottom of the can which I open the can and run hot water into it to flush out that nasty stuff, then drain it off.  If extra water then gets mixed into the "chunk" of pate' in the can BETTER yet, MORE WATER FOR kitty.

I'm so sorry I didn't give you any answers for your baby's actual issues, and am so sorry you are BOTH having to go through such an awful time.   Please try wet food- even as a treat at first.  I will never feed a cat dry food ever again (cheaper but ended up costing us 5 GRAND with MJ's diabetes before we made the swap.)

Please keep us posted.  You and your baby are certainly in my thoughts.

-Sandi

Click to expand...

I'm sorry, I didn't mean to make it sound like water was his problem.  I have NEVER heard that fish was "bad for crystals/males" and the problem with the GRAVY is that's where a lot of the fat is which is not good for your cat obviously and with regard to losing water by not feeding gravy, that simply isn't the case.  In pate cat food the high water content is in the food.  Gravy is just not good because of all the fat.

You can actually search online and find a list of cat foods (that amazingly contain the cheap Friskies we feed,) and this is a list of canned foods that have the right amount of carbs and are decent for diabetic cats which saved MJ's life

Geoffrey said:

Ginny, I am sorry but I don't understand your reference.
Regards, Geoffrey

Click to expand...

I don't know what happened to the link about BNP, @Geoffrey. I will have to resend it to you when I get on my computer at home. Sorry!

Yes,not the cardiac expert wracking the brain regarding BNP,cant remember what that value is.Surely Geoffrey

can help.

I think canned food with gravy was associated with the pet food catastrophe that killed many pets due to an additive from China.Some people refuse to use those.My cats like them and like the fluid.

smokem said:

Yes,not the cardiac expert wracking the brain regarding BNP,cant remember what that value is.Surely Geoffrey
can help.

I think canned food with gravy was associated with the pet food catastrophe that killed many pets due to an additive from China.Some people refuse to use those.My cats like them and like the fluid.

Click to expand...

So do mine. They love the gravy. By the time whisky finishes, his plate doesn't need washing!!! It gets washed of course.

hi everyone 

so happy to read all of your posts!

@ Ginny i think its a mix of what u said to! monie isnt near as active as he was before!did u ever get ur cats heart tested?he saw the neuro today and i told him that hes not himself and the neuro said "maybe its a behavior change he has developed,he is aging" hes not even mid life yet.the neuro also said his episodes prior to pheno i have on my phone are seizures,but he said the episodes he has now arent.even tho he is stiff,eyes open,he twitches but only 2-3 times and he is nonresponsive. he said basically its not a seizure bc he isnt "paddling" and hypersalivating.he said this sounds more heart related but he wants to do mri.

he basically said that it is impossible to do testing anyway tho until heart is okayed by cardiologist due to high bnp 6x regular range.i hope the neuro is right and this is mostly a heart problem bc i dont want to do the MRI after he sees the cardio.Nothing good can come of it. how long did u say your baby has been on pheno? i am nervous about this medication im gna ask the cardio to change it. I made an appt 2 hours away at the Ohio state university hopefully ill get some answers there. yes timone was like biting at his fur just like ur kitty when he was having a lot of seizures before the pheno. he did have an inital shot of pheno but the dr did half of the recomended dose for his weight bc i said i didnt want him sedated for days and he said that woukld happen.

@geoffrey the Cardio BNP test is a test to check the heart. i read abt it online and asked for it my vet was familiar  w it,its just blood work,idr all the details but something to do with proteins in heart shows stretching and stress the heart recently endured

@katlady since this started i feed him Wellness brand products now which is wet food. i got another brand too that isnt wet or dry its like moist it stays in the fridge. I didnt know dry food was bad but i deff have been giving him gravy bc like @Stewball  said bc he is dehydrated.

p.s. i fired his vet for refusing to give me med records and also bc i found out when he stayed there no one was there to watch him from 9p-7a and thats when his seizures are the worse,they knew that and they knew i didnt want him alone. i had to drive to the vet to get the records tho and the vet said his results were all normmal besides the cardio bnp.this is his 2nd biochem tho and this one differs a lot.the 1st was all within normal except sodium was 2 higher than normal so nothing really. i dont think this one looks normal.what do u guys think?be honest i dont get offended or anything and i could be being over protective

urine (each link is one page)

https://dochub.com/dezaraesmitha26a1734/38pEle/allcreaturesurinepg1?dt=prnniaj1eyy22sta

https://dochub.com/dezaraesmitha26a1734/JjaeBx/allcreaturesurinepg2?dt=hlvk7gkbyjq2y4sa

blood

https://dochub.com/dezaraesmitha26a1734/4XpbRr/allcreaturesblood?dt=rmy3xtq4zsrlu3v4

https://dochub.com/dezaraesmitha26a1734/xDpovR/allcreaturesbloodpg2?dt=cy2dcyf6ts0jo084

https://dochub.com/dezaraesmitha26a1734/XJVeyM/allcreaturesbloodpg3cardio?dt=hosady8w4k6q2cul

in the morning hes going to hate me, we have a 2 hr drive to OSU to see the cardiologist. wish us luck!

thanks for everyones support

Dezarae Ashlee said:

 
@geoffrey the Cardio BNP test is a test to check the heart. i read abt it online and asked for it my vet was familiar  w it,its just blood work,idr all the details but something to do with proteins in heart shows stretching and stress the heart recently endured

@katlady since this started i feed him Wellness brand products now which is wet food. i got another brand too that isnt wet or dry its like moist it stays in the fridge. I didnt know dry food was bad but i deff have been giving him gravy bc like @Stewball  said bc he is dehydrated.

p.s. i fired his vet for refusing to give me med records and also bc i found out when he stayed there no one was there to watch him from 9p-7a and thats when his seizures are the worse,they knew that and they knew i didnt want him alone. i had to drive to the vet to get the records tho and the vet said his results were all normmal besides the cardio bnp.this is his 2nd biochem tho and this one differs a lot.the 1st was all within normal except sodium was 2 higher than normal so nothing really. i dont think this one looks normal.what do u guys think?be honest i dont get offended or anything and i could be being over protective

urine (each link is one page)

https://dochub.com/dezaraesmitha26a1734/38pEle/allcreaturesurinepg1?dt=prnniaj1eyy22sta

https://dochub.com/dezaraesmitha26a1734/JjaeBx/allcreaturesurinepg2?dt=hlvk7gkbyjq2y4sa

blood

https://dochub.com/dezaraesmitha26a1734/4XpbRr/allcreaturesblood?dt=rmy3xtq4zsrlu3v4

https://dochub.com/dezaraesmitha26a1734/xDpovR/allcreaturesbloodpg2?dt=cy2dcyf6ts0jo084

https://dochub.com/dezaraesmitha26a1734/XJVeyM/allcreaturesbloodpg3cardio?dt=hosady8w4k6q2cul

in the morning hes going to hate me, we have a 2 hr drive to OSU to see the cardiologist. wish us luck!

thanks for everyones support

Click to expand...

I now understand the CardioBNP test, it is not a test with which I was familiar, it is easier to go straight for an echocardiograph in humans.  This test may demonstrate damage to the muscle of the heart that could be permanent or transient.

The tests that have been done are suggestive of mild kidney disease (albumen in urine), the normal creatinine is a very good sign as this is usually elevated very early in kidney disease. The BNP is so high that an echocardiograph is strongly indicated, don’t refuse it if this is offered by the cardiologist.  The kidney abnormalities may be secondary to his other problems.  However don't forget that I am not a vet and I may be wrong as cat pathology may be very different from humans.... 

With best wishes,

Geoffrey

Thank you I thought the same thing but the vet didn't think so I guess I'm going to ask the cardiologist today we're on our way there now is that test an ultrasound of the heart? Were getting that done today too.
So the protein would be albumin right?I wasn't sure if there was diff types of protein.the crystals concerned me too
I hope that we figure it out today bc it's affecting my relationship w my husband

He is so lucky to have you take charge of his health and do everything you can. I hope you find out what is going on and that it is treatable / manageable 

Dezarae Ashlee said:

 
hi everyone 

so happy to read all of your posts!

@ Ginny i think its a mix of what u said to! monie isnt near as active as he was before!did u ever get ur cats heart tested?he saw the neuro today and i told him that hes not himself and the neuro said "maybe its a behavior change he has developed,he is aging" hes not even mid life yet.the neuro also said his episodes prior to pheno i have on my phone are seizures,but he said the episodes he has now arent.even tho he is stiff,eyes open,he twitches but only 2-3 times and he is nonresponsive. he said basically its not a seizure bc he isnt "paddling" and hypersalivating.he said this sounds more heart related but he wants to do mri.

he basically said that it is impossible to do testing anyway tho until heart is okayed by cardiologist due to high bnp 6x regular range.i hope the neuro is right and this is mostly a heart problem bc i dont want to do the MRI after he sees the cardio.Nothing good can come of it. how long did u say your baby has been on pheno? i am nervous about this medication im gna ask the cardio to change it. I made an appt 2 hours away at the Ohio state university hopefully ill get some answers there. yes timone was like biting at his fur just like ur kitty when he was having a lot of seizures before the pheno. he did have an initial shot of pheno but the dr did half of the recommended dose for his weight bc i said i didn't want him sedated for days and he said that woukld happen......

...p.s. i fired his vet for refusing to give me med records and also bc i found out when he stayed there no one was there to watch him from 9p-7a and thats when his seizures are the worse,they knew that and they knew i didn't want him alone. i had to drive to the vet to get the records tho and the vet said his results were all normmal besides the cardio bnp....

in the morning hes going to hate me, we have a 2 hr drive to OSU to see the cardiologist. wish us luck!

thanks for everyones support

Click to expand...

I don't think that neurologist knows what he's talking about because what you are describing DOES sound like seizures to me.  When I had Nat in the ICU the last time, they told me he only had one small seizure which consisted of his whiskers twitching.  Good heavens I sure hope the cardiologist can help you with Timone tomorrow. 

Nat has been on Pheno altogether nearly 4 years off and on.  At first they gave him only Valium rectally, then switched over to Pheno transdermal cream.  I guess it helped but honestly the seizures had gone away on their own that first time.  I don't recall when the vet took him off the cream, but then last January he started on oral pheno pills which I crushed and gave with water in a syringe.  Then in March last year they doubled the dose and make it a liquid so I wouldn't have to crush it.  They felt I wasn't giving him a full dose when I was crushing it.  

I'm not sure if I understand Timone's situation correctly, but I believe it's a mistake to tell the vet to not give him the full dose of pheno.  That's why Timone is continuing to have seizures, because he didn't get the necessary loading dose.  I know it's hard to see your kitty sedated, but better that than to continue to have seizures!  

Seizures are not benign events.  Even if he goes unconscious and doesn't remember them, they are hard on the body, especially the brain and his heart.  During the big seizures, the demand for oxygen is too great for his weakened heart to supply so it's imperative that the seizures get under control, even if that means being groggy for a while.  It won't last forever.  

Nat gradually got used to being on this drug, but at first he laid around all the time.  He's more energetic now than at first, but he's not ever going to be exactly the same kitty as before.    He's still a big ole sweetie, and I still love him even if he is slower and less energetic than before he got sick.  

There may be another drug they can give him, potassium bromide I think, but I'm not sure of those side effects because Nat has only been on the pheno.

I would have fired that vet too for leaving him ALONE when Timone was most likely to have seizures!!  How RIDICULOUS!!!  Why not just give him back to you to observe?  That's not right.   God that makes me angry he did that to you and your kitty!  Anyway, I hope things go well tomorrow.  Have a safe trip.  

Potassium bromide is another drug they give to control seizures, but I can't tell you anything about it.  I believe it is a 2nd line drug that they use only if pheno doesn't help.  But you won't know if pheno is helping or not unless he takes it regularly so that his level reaches therapeutic range, which will take a few weeks.  

Dezarae Ashlee said:

Thank you I thought the same thing but the vet didn't think so I guess I'm going to ask the cardiologist today we're on our way there now is that test an ultrasound of the heart? Were getting that done today too.
So the protein would be albumin right?I wasn't sure if there was diff types of protein.the crystals concerned me too

Click to expand...

BNP is a protein that is produced by cardiac muscle damage.   I would not worry too much about the crystals as long as he is passing urine freely.  

An echocardiograph uses ultra sound but takes a moving picture of the heart's motion.  It is quite different from an ultrasound which is like an X-Ray, taking a static picture of whatever you are investigating.  An ultrasound of the heart would not be very useful.  An ultrasound picture is used for the kidney and is useful for seeing a stone, for example.

With regards,

Geoffrey