Uninterested Mama

There was what you might call a neighborhood stray and an apartment complex nearby my home who got pregnant so one of the residents brought her inside and made a nest in a closet bc that's all she had. Unfortunately this lady had several children that were not yet school-age and is very allergic to cats so she could not keep them for an entire fostering. The ACS here is all kill shelters and the charities are full and overflowing. So she posted in a local Facebook group begging for emergency help. Well it's been about 10 years since I've had a cat but it's not exactly things you forget, and I knew that mama would do most of the job. However, this little mama who weighs in maybe at 6 pounds (sorry don't have a scale but she is TINY) had six healthy babies, a couple of which are substantially smaller than the rest. The mama is sweet, but not really friendly, I doubt she'll ever be anyone's lap cat if you know what I mean. I was told that the babies were three weeks old the day before they arrived at my house. The quietest room in my house is my own bedroom so I set up a large produce box under the vanity in my bathroom. It was obvious the very first night that she did not want to be in the box herself, and after about 30 minutes of surveying the room decided to carry her babies one by one under the bed. This is fine with me, storage boxes only leave them about a quarter of the space under the bed and with only one way in and out bc of a heavy duvet, so it's definitely darker and quieter even more so and I understand how she would feel more secure there. But then she never got down there with them. If they start to cry she would go down and feed them and then come back out. That was on Wednesday. While they have grown in this 4 days and become more agile starting to both sleep and play outside from under the bed in the little area that I have set out for them next to the bed (about 3x5 ft), I am concerned with mommas disinterest in her babies and that they might not be getting enough food in total. They have a soft round tummies, and I know they can go potty on their own but they aren't doing very much of it. Their incisors and canines have started to barely rupture. And they are lively and curious as you would expect a kitten of almost 4wks to be. Mama only goes in where the babies are when they cry and need to be fed and then she only grooms one or two out of the six during each feed. Each feed lasts between one and four minutes, frequently ending with what appears to be her being frustrated and annoyed and getting up to walk off with literally kittens still hanging from her and crying because they are still hungry. I have physically placed mom in with kittens for greater frequency and she has laid and fed but still won't feed for very long. So far kittens are not interested in mash, though we used dry food to make it because I didn't have any quality can though that will be here in the mail today, thank you Amazon. But now I'm wondering if I should have ordered some KBR as well, not sure if the pet store nearby carries it and the feed store won't be open today. I guess what I'm getting around to in this very long-winded post is should I be supplementing these kittens and if so how much and with what. Do I need to do the KBR since they should be at the right age to start going to solid or do I just give them dry kibble free in a bowl for their interest and offer them the solid mash in between the meals they get from mom? Also is there anyway to get her more interested in them? I've been praising her every time she goes in there and trying to give her some love when she comes out to let her know she's done something good and that she'll get something good for doing it but so far haven't really seen very much fruit for this, although I know I am making progress with her because she will now follow me and come to me when I call her, and she thinks her permanent position should be at the foot of my bed.

My biggest concern was really when she started making a low long not quite growl but very close to it during feeding today. She had gone over there on her own because they were crying but because they were jostling and fighting for position so much she lost patience with them and got up. The other thing that really concerned me today was that there were times she would get frustrated with them before all six even began to eat so there were some that were missing meals altogether. When all six are eating you can almost barely see her head poking out here and tail the other end because she is so covered in them because she is so small, and that is half the problem IMO.

OK I'm not gonna long when y'all anymore I'm sorry! Thank you for reading and for any advice you can give me! Just trying to make sure these kittens continue to thrive.

Yes, you need to go to a pet store today and buy KMR (kitten milk replacer) formula, preferably powdered by PetAg, GNC, or Royal Canin. Pick up a bag of kitten chow, and a few cans of Fancy Feast pate flavors of wet food while you wait for your wet food to arrive.

Mom needs all the wet and dry food she can eat. Babies need supplementing asap! They sound hungry! See first if they will lap the KMR from a dish, however; they sound not quite ready to wean yet, so try to feed them as much formula milk as they want from a kitten bottle several times a day. If they will not lap or take a bottle (make sure the hole in the nipple is not too big or small), you'll need a small syringe to feed them with.

Kittens wean best with kitten chow softened with formula, and with wet food mixed with formula to make a mush. They may be more ready for this in about 2 weeks, but you can try sooner. Once they are eating solids, they need a kitten sized litter pan to learn to use. If mom's not cleaning them, you need to do so with a warm, damp cloth a few times a day.

Do you plan to spay mom soon?

Thank you for taking them in! Please let me know how feeding the kittens with the KMR goes. [emoji]128522[/emoji]

I agree.  They need supplementing.  I want to add, full fat goats milk is always OK, if you find it easier to get than these kmr mentioned, use this. Full fat plain youghurt is OK too.  Minced meat is a classical to begin with.  Dont use pork though, unless its thoroughly cooked.

To be sure if the kittens gets enough, the easiest way to know is to weigh them every day.  You can weigh them in a bowl or plastic container, easier so because they are big now and surely wriggly.  They shall simply add every day...

Re her growling.  I wonder if she has aches. they fighingt for nipple time, and having teeths, that is for sure. But not impossible she perhaps has some beginning of mastitis or other inflammation...

Not everyone is a good mom, but she has brought them so far. Not easy being a smell female and having 6 kittens...

They dont use the litter so much because she is surely helping out some cleaning them.  Observe, when they begin to eat solids, she will wash them, but not longer eating their wastes.

Tx for helping them!

I have mama eating dry kitten kibble atm even though I know they're meant to have both at this time because she's had diarrhea since before she even got here. The lady who had her said she had dewormed her so I assumed that was why and that it would pass in and in a day or so but as it hasn't I gave her a couple of tablespoons of yogurt last night. Although it's no longer splattered, but still very noxious and soft for a cat, but now considering possible mastitis perhaps that's the reason? I just took a good look at her belly and she has all six nipples producing milk and her tummy is of good color but is warm and sensitive to the touch.

Just confirmed that they definitely no questions about it need supplementing as I started a riot with a syringe. Will get a bottle and proper KBR at the pet store, but happened to have some canned goat milk (i'm allergic to dairy) and used one of the kids medication style syringes after the babies were left hungry. Will let y'all know how it turns out after pet store opens in a few hours. Thanks for the support and advice!!

On the spaying... I'd like for all of them to be spayed and neutered but paying for seven cats to get back sedated and fixed is going to be a big chunk of change over the last couple of days I've been looking through the requirements for those various aid societies around town to see if maybe they could help and have a list of different vet clinics to see if they'd be willing to give me a reduced rate perhaps. I don't know it's worth a try!

Not sedated, vaccinated! Lol [emoji]128516[/emoji]

Thank you for taking care of these babies and mama! Babies should be fed every 3-4 hours and I would think 15ml per feeding.

Definitely call shelters and see if they can help with the spaying and neutering, vaccines, etc. Mom will need to be fixed first, and then the boys, so you can likely stagger it.

If you post where you are located we can also help you to find a low cost clinic.

I think your mama cat probably has a bacterial infection causing her diahrrhea. She will need an antibiotic to clear it up. It will also clear mastitis. Can you get her to a vet first thing tomorrow?

In the meantime, you can place a warm, damp compress on her belly to give relief. And you can offer a tablespoon of plain, canned pumpkin a couple times a day to help with the diarrhea. It will not solve infection though.

Have you picked up the KMR yet and fed the kittens?

Thankfully my daughter was able to help and we fed all the kittens at 9 o'clock approximately 12 mL of canned goat milk via syringe. The pet store literally just opened in the last 10 minutes and I just got off the phone with them and my husband's gonna go pick that up right now, so hopefully we will be in business! And after feeding the babies and causing such a ruckus, mama was willing to feed. Because they were still because they weren't starving she actually allow them to feed for a full seven minutes which is the longest I've seen her feet yet![emoji]128522[/emoji] Plus she groomed a lil, I assume bc of the milk which she wanted desperately. Also the delivery of wet food arrived so I can put a lil pumpkin in it and offer mama that right away [emoji]128522[/emoji]

On Friday evening I had already decided that if her diarrhea didn't clear over the weekend I would take her to a vet tomorrow, so I have their phone number and other information open on my phone already, but now I'll definitely be calling when they open! Will it help to put anything in the compress like tea? Or rub her w Vit e oil? The litters we've had before have all been with much older cats (I don't think this mama is even a year old) and bigger cats so this kind of complication is new territory. I really appreciate y'alls help! I'm in NE side of San Antonio, TX if that's helpful but not in the ZIP Code that qualifies us for free spay and neuter programs unfortunately.

To give y'all a better idea I've included three images, the first is of mama's belly. This was the only position she would let me do this in, and oddly enough she likes to be held somewhat on her back like a baby. But you can clearly see a few of her teats. The picture was taken right after nursing. The second photo was taken moments before during nursing. And the third photo is really just to show the difference in size we have going on where the red mackerel saddle with the white spots on its back as one of our larger kitties and the kitten next to him that is just a traditional red mackerel saddle is significantly smaller. I have three that tiny like that- the male pictured is quite strong and sociable, and two little females who have a very weak meow comparatively. All three girls are Torti and white but still have this medium hair coat like their mama.

Did you give them 12ml each or altogether? I'm glad it went well! Is mom cleaning them?

Only one photo uploaded, and the kittens are beautiful!

Glad your daughter helped to feed. Poor dears were hungry. Since they fed longer, maybe they weren't sucking as hard since they were full. If mom's nipples hurt, the frantic nursing must be painful.

You can add tea to the compress. Tea sometimes has healing properties.

Glad your wet food arrived as well!

You're doing a terrific job! [emoji]128522[/emoji]

talkingpeanut said:

Did you give them 12ml each or altogether? I'm glad it went well! Is mom cleaning them?

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Each this morning. They are taking the PetAg KMR well from the bottle. I'm just feeding them until they're done bc they eat either before with mama and I finish them on the bottle or we begin that way and then she'll be interested to feed. Now that they aren't so frantic any longer I'm going to try putting down a dish with KMR in it to see if they'll drink from the dish.
Mama was only cleaning which ever kitten was close to her during feed, but since supplementing she's been much more interested in grooming the babies because they're getting messy and because she's very food motivated. So it's win-win I think[emoji]128521[/emoji] Overall she seems calmer. I can't help but wonder if she was panicking a little herself. They've also been urinating on their own several times today more than I've seen in the past several days total, which allays a lot of the concern I was feeling.

So good report so far! [emoji]128522[/emoji] Setting up a mini litter in their play area this evening. And calling vet in the morning in hopes that they can fit us in.

Glad to hear everyone is settling in! How often are you offering the bottle feeds?

This just sounds wonderful. It's almost as though mom is more relaxed with you helping, which makes it easier for her to do her job. I know the stray mom I took in last year really relaxed when I helped her. It's an amazing animal/human bond!

I'm glad the babies are getting supplemented. They need it. Keep up the feedings!

Her nipples look very pink, so I'm glad you're heading to the vet soon. Keep us posted. [emoji]128522[/emoji]

talkingpeanut said:

Glad to hear everyone is settling in! How often are you offering the bottle feeds?

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About every three hours. They seem to have a lil schedule started so we're trying to go with it and not intrude too much. But when the first one wakes up its time to warm milk bc before you know it there's a queue even with two ppl feeding.

Mama has taken well to the pumpkin added to her wet food, but we're still working on the compresses. It's an only if you hold me kind of deal. She did just have a bum though and it's even more formed, like a lil pattie, and didn't smell quite as bad. Thankfully she's never gotten dehydrated from what I can tell w a simple pinch test. She's definitely a lot calmer and has even initiated a feeding this evening [emoji]9786[/emoji]️ Will update after I talk to the vet in the morning.

Thanks for sticking w me, there's much value in reassurance and tips that you just don't know until you come up against it[emoji]128516[/emoji]

That's what we're here for! Mom sounds better with each update. [emoji]128077[/emoji]

It does sound better and better!  Please do update in the morning, and try to get some rest.  I know those round the clock feedings are tough.

Well the kittens are growing more like I expected. You wouldn't think two days of supplement would be so noticeable though! Mama is making more progress interest wise, occasionally initiating feeding and she laid in the play area today and I saw her properly groom and stimulate for the first time. I know she must've already been doing this but this is the first Ive actually seen it. The kittens won't really eat wet food even off of my finger. They perhaps take a bite but mostly walk around in it and then groom it back off so they are getting some supplement from it, but aren't quite there yet. So I'm offering mom's wet food where they are so that they can see her eat as well. A couple are already using the mini litter box to have a wee. And mama has been watching from above while they play where previously she would sleep across the room not really noticing unless they were desperately hungry. She seems to be very much benefiting from the little bit of help that were giving her and has calmed down substantially, even wanted to play herself this afternoon. However she has an appointment with the vet tomorrow afternoon, so I hope that this progress isn't lost due what I'm sure she'll see as betrayal. But as she still has diarrhea it must be done! And not a one of them has ever been to a vet before, so at minimum it will be good to get a baseline[emoji]128521[/emoji]

I think she'll be even better with the kittens when SHE feels better! Getting treated for diarrhea and possible mastitis will have her feeling much better soon. She's been through a lot, and diarrhea is draining to the system. Hopefully they'll put her on an antibiotic.

Are you still supplementing? It's amazing what a difference supplementing can make!

Let us know what the vet says about mom tomorrow!