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and people wonder why I'm vegetarian/vegan!

post #1 of 24
2/7/04 at 8:24pm
Thread Starter 
My brother set the family down the vegetarian path a few years back, and we've been very happy with that dietary choice. He chose to become vegan last year to protest factory farms and the way food-animals are treated. My mother and I are vegetarian, although we sometimes have fish, and on rare occasions, chicken.

But with BSE, and now this avian flu, I'm VERY happy to not have to worry about eating meat. I find it awful that they have to destroy animals because they MIGHT carry the disease. Sure, I agree that you have to protect human (and animal) health, but what I saw on the news a few minutes ago disgusted me beyond belief. People were throwing chickens into a big central pit to burn them... but here's the kicker: the chickens were still alive! they showed one on fire, stumbling around over it's dead comrads.. *shudder* as long as this keeps going on (and even after that), I will never again eat meat!
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post #2 of 24
2/7/04 at 8:27pm
I can understand your anger and frustration.

But maybe this is better suited in the IMO forum.
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post #3 of 24
2/7/04 at 8:47pm
Thats sad. I can't believe they would do that to live chickens.
Im an omnivore though, and I plan on staying that way. Ill take my chances with diseases and all the like.

Peace,
Brandon
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post #4 of 24
2/8/04 at 7:05am
I'm torn here. Hubby is a vegeterian for the same reasons as your brother. I wanted to be but so far I can't keep it for more than a few months I crave meat too much. However, I do advocate the humane treatment of farm animals. I always buy free range products when I can. I think every animal deserves not to suffer in life and to die in a humane fashion. I think what they're doing to the chickens is appalling
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post #5 of 24
2/8/04 at 8:34am
In Thailand they have rounded up all the birds, chickens, finches, peacocks etc. stuffed them in bags, and thrown the bags into large holes and have buried them alive! My heart screamed when I saw the atrocities that they were performing to safeguard against bird flu!
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post #6 of 24
2/8/04 at 8:55am
OMG they are doing this because of bird flu?? Sounds like mass hysteria to me
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post #7 of 24
2/9/04 at 1:02am
Quote:
Originally posted by thh20
My mother and I are vegetarian, although we sometimes have fish, and on rare occasions, chicken.
Surely Not vegetarians then?
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post #8 of 24
2/9/04 at 3:07am
Actually there are different degrees of vegeteranianism.

There are people that do not eat meat or any animal products. This includes dairy.

Then there are some with no meat but also eat dairy products.

Some include dairy products and seafood in their diet.

And others still exclude red meat and pork.

I've probably missed a few there in making my point.
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post #9 of 24
2/9/04 at 3:31am
There is a lot of confusion about vegetarians! I am what is called a lacto vegetarian as I still drink milk and eat dairy products although I do choose the cheese with non animal rennet (the animal rennet is made from the animals stomach-euk). It would not bother me to give up dairy products so much and this is the way I am going in the future. soya milk and such. I eat nothing with a face! i dont understand how can you be called a vegetarian if you eat meat of any sort? People turn veggie for many reasons - envorimental is one of them as well as the butchery aspect.
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post #10 of 24
2/9/04 at 8:01am
Surely a vegetarian eats no animal products at all? If you eat any then you have just made a dietary choice.

Tjough the final logic of not eating living creatures is fruitarianism (sp?) which is a bit too far for me.

Simon the happy omnivore.
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post #11 of 24
2/9/04 at 10:36am
Thread Starter 
My mother and I are vegetarians, but we "cheat" sometimes and have fish and/or seafood like shrimp or mussels... We RARELY have chicken or other types of meat, but it does happen every once in a while that we give in to a craving. And I'm a huge seafood lover, so I allow myself the guilty pleasure no more than once a year for lobster.

We buy eggs from free-run hens. My mother likes eggs more than I do, so she's then one who eats them most of the time. I'm lactose-intolerant, but I'm nowhere ready to give up cheese and dairy! I take lactaid pills, and that suits me fine. (Tofu cheese just doesn't cut it for me!)
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post #12 of 24
2/9/04 at 2:06pm
I was a strict vegan for 4 years but what finally made me fail is my darn fashion sense! I wanted to wear animals and as long as I'm wearing animals and their coats, I can't be hypocritical and be a vegetarian. It really peeves me when I see vegetarians talking about how wrong it is to kill animals for food, and be wearing a leather jacket or something.

Someday I'll go back though. When I move to a city with more variety for vegetarians b/c I wasn't eating very healthy.
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post #13 of 24
2/10/04 at 6:17am
Oh dear I do hope that meat eaters dont think that all we eat is fruit and veg!!!! How boring would that be
I understand the reasoning behind your choice Purr as I do not wear fur or wear leather if I can help it. there are some amazing products around now so you just dont have to. I do wonder though about people who subsitute real meat for the phoney stuff that looks like it. It must taste gross. I will admit to a longing for bacon sandwiches. The bread very white, very fresh and crispy bacon. However after this long it is not going to happen. Thh20 - Tofu cheese - vile!!!!!!!!!!
Also the folk who eat veal but not little bunnies - what is the difference! its all meat as far as I can see. Cat/dog/cow - show me the difference as far as meat is concerned. I understand Gine pig is nice (sorry cant spell it!) I think organic is a good choice if yo can afford it
In Thailand as in Vietnam a lot of the meat apparently better. In the villages it is kept running around and fed and is only killed the moment it is to be eaten. Thats better than factory farming by a long way in my book
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post #14 of 24
2/10/04 at 6:30am
Surely anyone who is a veggie because of the animal welfare issue should be a full veggie? Fine if you just don't like the taste of meat but you do of fish, thats not hypocritical because you're doing it through personal taste, not to try and save animals. But how can someone say they won't eat cows or pigs, but fish are ok? Surely you can't pick and choose which animals deserve to be eaten and which don't?
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post #15 of 24
2/10/04 at 6:31am
Hmmm in the animal world, animals eat animals mixed in with plants, same as us humans. My girlfriend is a so called vegetarian and I have already told her I'm not gonna stop eating meat cuz she doesn't like it.

We don't live together yet.... but if and when we do our freezer will include meat.

Already told her I will not go the rest of my life without a roast beef dinner on a Sunday and BBQ's in the summer.
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post #16 of 24
2/10/04 at 7:11am
animals eat animals eh? Isnt that where we came in ....BSE
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post #17 of 24
2/10/04 at 7:39am
Quote:
Originally posted by tulip2454
animals eat animals eh? Isnt that where we came in ....BSE
Um, yeah. Animals eat other animals. Food chain and all that? Our precious kitty cats are carnivores, meaning they eat other animals. To deny them meat in their diet (whether processed in cat food or not) would be to slowly kill them.

While us humans can survive and thrive without meat in our diets, since we are omnivores, there are many animals that can't. Their digestive system requires it. I respect people's choice to not eat meat, whether that means just avoiding red meat, or totally vegan or anywhere in between; for ethical reasons, health reasons or just personal preference. Please respect the choice of others who decide to eat meat. If it were completely unnatural, as with cows , we wouldn't be able to digest full on meat products.
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post #18 of 24
2/10/04 at 8:10am
Totally agree valanhb. Me and you have a choice however much we may differ Cats and others, whatever their size do need meat, their stomachs etc are designed for just that. I just meant about feeding cattle and sheep etc meat is where we came in on this thread. (It was meant a bit tongue in cheek )
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post #19 of 24
2/10/04 at 8:17am
Ah, OK. I misunderstood your intent with that statement.

Although, Avian Influenza doesn't originate from the same source. How they are dealing with it is indeed horribly cruel.
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post #20 of 24
2/10/04 at 2:54pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by tulip2454
[...]I do wonder though about people who subsitute real meat for the phoney stuff that looks like it. It must taste gross. I will admit to a longing for bacon sandwiches. The bread very white, very fresh and crispy bacon. However after this long it is not going to happen. Thh20 - Tofu cheese - vile!!!!!!!!!!

I must admit, eating vegan was not as bad as I thought it'd be when I started, but there are a few things I would rather not have to eat. Seitan being one of them. Blech. It's like eating flavoured rubber! I used to drink soy milk, but I found lactose-free milk, and I like that better. The company here that makes most of the "phoney meat" is Yves, and they make pretty good stuff.
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post #21 of 24
2/12/04 at 9:18am
Actually I think it is possible to make a distinction between types of animals. I think mammals are more developed than fish (possibly than birds but that I'm not absolutely sure about). I can see why some people would limit their meat consumption to seafood and fish as they wouldn't want to hurt other mammals. After all, there's no clear and cut line anywhere. What about plankton? and microbes? Just my thoughts. I respect everyone's choices of course. It's just that to me an ape is more sentient than a mouse, and a mouse is more sentient than a fish. I'm appalled at dolphins being eaten in some cultures - too intelliegent and sentient for my liking.

And by the way soy based meat substitutes can be yummy! Israel is quite a pioneer in the field. It's estimated that we have 10 times more vegeterians than other western countries (yet we do consider ourselves to be western thought some might disagree). Anyway, the local industry has developed some excellent meat substitutes. We have hamburgers that will make your mouth water - no animals in them at all.
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post #22 of 24
2/14/04 at 3:55am
Quote:
It's estimated that we have 10 times more vegeterians than other western countries
Just wondering, if this could be caused by the rule that you have to keep dairy and meat completely separated.

If eating meat would mean I needed two kitchens, two sets of dishes,spoons, knives, forks, two dishwashers, two cupboards, two uh ... everything, I suppose I wouldn't mind becoming a vegetarian too much.
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post #23 of 24
2/14/04 at 7:37am
Quote:
Originally posted by Anne
Actually I think it is possible to make a distinction between types of animals. I think mammals are more developed than fish (possibly than birds but that I'm not absolutely sure about). I can see why some people would limit their meat consumption to seafood and fish as they wouldn't want to hurt other mammals. After all, there's no clear and cut line anywhere. What about plankton? and microbes? Just my thoughts. I respect everyone's choices of course. It's just that to me an ape is more sentient than a mouse, and a mouse is more sentient than a fish. I'm appalled at dolphins being eaten in some cultures - too intelliegent and sentient for my liking.
I understand your point but surely this argument would imply that it's down to how intelligent something is? Apes and dolphins are two of the most intelligent creatures on the planet and they're the two you listed as being uncomfortable with the idea of eating. So if it's down to how smart you are, ponder this: a retarded child, it could be argued, is not as 'intelligent' or 'sentient' as a regular person. Does that then mean they deserve to be treated differently or with not as much respect? Don't get me wrong, I eat meat, I wish I could go veggie but I don't have the willpower, but I don't discriminate on what I'll eat based on how intelligent it is. Theres animals I WON'T eat but it has nothing to do with thier intelligence. Just that I don't like to eat anything more than what I currently do. It would just increase the guilt.
Also, a rat is as intelligent as a 2 and a half year old child, has the same mindset, the same capacity to learn etc and I only know this because I own rats and have done research. Who knows how smart other animals that we eat actually are?
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post #24 of 24
2/14/04 at 7:52pm
Quote:
Originally posted by tulip2454
There is a lot of confusion about vegetarians! I am what is called a lacto vegetarian as I still drink milk and eat dairy products although I do choose the cheese with non animal rennet (the animal rennet is made from the animals stomach-euk). It would not bother me to give up dairy products so much and this is the way I am going in the future. soya milk and such. I eat nothing with a face! i dont understand how can you be called a vegetarian if you eat meat of any sort? People turn veggie for many reasons - envorimental is one of them as well as the butchery aspect.
I'm afraid I can't answer your question but what I said about different types of vegetarians out there comes from my experience working in the hospitality industry where customers considered themselves vegetarians even though they still ate some meat.
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