Meaning of These Behaviors

Been introducing my 2 kitties, resident cat 6 years, kitten now 1 year.

The kitten will charge the resident cat, then jump up on something high and look at him. Resident cat starts to verbally pant 3 times (stress?) ... Is the kitten challenging him or just playing. Just want other opinions on this behavior. It happens a lot.

It sounds very much like kitten play to me, although the panting bit has me a bit bamboozled.  Has the older cat been running at all?

Bronty,

It sounds like play to me. I am assuming they do get along. Can you pull out a toy and start playing with the 1yr old kitty? This way the kitty will get some play and if it is causing your 6 yr old stress it could possibly reduce the stress by getting the kitty focused away from the cat. And maybe the cat will even join in on the play.

Cats like to go high and look down so it could be a few other things but judging by what you have written it sounds like play. Any additional info is always helpful.

I appreciate the replies -  I am sure the kitten is playing. The resident cat is terrified of her playing, is what I'm guessing.

They do get along, except the kitten wants to play and the older cat doesn't. He pants like that a lot when she jumps up high.He doesn't like her doing it for some reason????

What else might the jumping up high mean ? (kitten is scared and jumping to a safe place?)

Bronty,

Now there are two jumping highs, jumping high in the air and coming right down and jumping high onto something like a cat tree etc.

If she is jumping high and coming down and playing that is just her being a kitten and being wild. They like to jump and try to hunt/catch.This behavior might be a bit too much for your older cat and it might show a bit more dominance than your older cat would like. I think you should go about getting your older cat accustomed to this by holding her if possible (and not being scratched or bitten) when the kitten is playing. Or have to sitting on something high like a cat tree or dresser when the kitten is playing. And give her love and treats when the kitten is playing if possible.

Going up is typically a sign of confidence and it sounds like that in your situation. It could be a flight response as going up high typically is safe. But it doesn't sound like your kitten fears your older cat. So I think it is her playing and being confident and going high.

Now the opposite is true and the one below doesn't like being looked down upon, it can be threatening. The older cat could just be in fear that she may be prey. Does the older cat run? Or just pant? It is concerning that the older cat is responding this way so she really needs to get comfortable that the kitten is not going to hurt her.

Try to have her high relative to the playing cat. Also, try to get the older cat to play alongside (not with but alongside) the kitten. Once the older cat is confident he or she will probably stop panting and get into a nice relationship.

The fact there is not violence between them is very good so it should be fairly easy to get the older cat comfortable with the kitten. Just make sure you try to really build the confidence of the older cat through, play, treats, going high, and love.

I hope this makes some sense and does help. Let me know if you have any questions.

thank you calicos! this is key what you said here:

Now the opposite is true and the one below doesn't like being looked down upon, it can be threatening. The older cat could just be in fear that she may be prey. Does the older cat run? Or just pant? It is concerning that the older cat is responding this way so she really needs to get comfortable that the kitten is not going to hurt her.

The older cat does NOT run, but he slowly and carefully walks away from her if he can. I do feel the older cat IS threatened by her, I feel he is terrified of her. He wants to be friends, but she just moves so fast and he is scared. When older cat goes up high to escape her, the kitten tries to jump up there with him!

When kitten jumps up it is onto a cat tree or other high place. sometimes she will look at him (older cat) and come right back down. He pants when she is looking down on him. He looks to see if she is up there too,

you nailed it on the head here, too:

If she is jumping high and coming down and playing that is just her being a kitten and being wild. They like to jump and try to hunt/catch.This behavior might be a bit too much for your older cat and it might show a bit more dominance than your older cat would like

The older cat is very very submissive. Before I lived where I lived now, older cat was able to go in the backyard and another neighbor cat came into the fenced yard and attacked him in my own backyard. So he has reasons to be scared, poor thing!

Thank you for these suggestions - I really appreciate them a lot!

Bronty,

You are welcome.

The fact the older cat does not run but does slowly and carefully walks away says he is afraid and that he knows not to act like prey (by running) but wants to get out of there and is worried.

I would really try to build the older cat's confidence and show the older cat that the kitten does not mean harm.

If the kitten starts directing its attention to the older cat can you pull out a toy and distract her with play? Anytime you see where the kitten is focusing on the older cat redirecting that attention to a toy would be helpful. Then the older cat will not feel as threatened as the kitten is no longer focusing on the older cat.

Also, if you can play with the kitten on the ground with the older cat up high it would be great. Again, it is meant to try to build the confidence. Or even feed the kitten below the older cat or pet her (if you can without being injured) with the older cat above the kitten.

Also, try to get them to eat near each other, even if it is just treats to start. And if they could play next to each other (with each playing with a different person) that would be helpful. 

Also, try to do some scent swapping with something that has the kittens scent on it near the food of the older cat and also near where the older cat sleeps.

What you want to associate is the kitten with good stuff (usually food and play).

When the older cat is confident he will no longer walk away slowly, he will stand his ground with his tail straight up and eventually get into playing with the kitten.

I am not sure the timing of the introductions and the process involved in getting to the current point but all this should help. We want and need to get the older cat more confident and when he is he'll stop being nervous and panting.

Please let us know how things go, good luck.

Thanks! I'll definitely be working on these things with my two.

Excellent advise and just what I needed~

I agree with the others.  It sounds, to me, like the young cat is trying to take the "power position" by taking a higher vantage point while the older cat is panting as if to day, "Damn kid!"

Yes, I also think you should do something to establish parity in the relationship.

While I don't think that the young cat is actively trying to usurp the older cat, I kind of think that there is a kind of "Young Whipper-snapper Versus Old Timer" dynamic being played out, even if it is just by happenstance.

You've got a six-year-old, established cat with set routines and a young, rambunctious teen aged cat who thinks the world is his oyster.

Bronty,

You are welcome. Please feel free to ask anything as it does take some time. You'll get there though. Good luck.

UPDATE:

I am afraid this may not work with my kitties. This week the baby kitty kept trying to jump up higher than the 6 year old cat who was on a shorter cat tree. She thumped older kitty twice in the face. Older cat, cried out like "Please don't hurt me!"

What can I do????

Did the younger kitty thump the older cat on purpose? Or was it during its attempt to go higher than the older cat?

My cats love to swat and jump at the cat higher on the cat tree. Then the one above swats at the one below. This is how mine play and how the lower one gets the other one to play with them (they all do it so it is not exclusive to any one cat of mine). But they never cause harm to the other one, they know to keep their claws in).

If the older cat is being bothered or even in danger of being hurt try to distract the younger one with play. Also, is it possible to get another tree in that area? So the older cat can move (escape) horizontally? Or if not, can you place the tree in a spot that the older cat can move but stay high? 

How are things going? Better? How are the interactions?

If the baby kitty focusing on the older cat give the baby kitty something more interesting like a toy or food. In other words distract. 

Try to play the younger cat a lot, tire the kitty out so it isn't as mischievous with the older cat. Play then feed either treats or a meal.

I can't exactly tell from your post but it seems like you are a bit at wits end. Any additional info on their interactions and how they are reacting to the play, food etc. Any more detail whether it is just the younger one wanting to play with endless energy or if it is something more nefarious.

Hang in there.  Most cats are good and like other cats. We just need to build their confidence and get them to stand up and respect each other.

The kitten thumped the resident cat on purpose when the resident cat was up higher on the cat tree. Kitten kept trying to get up on something higher than resident cat. We brought in a 2nd cat tree thinking it would help, but the kitten and resident cat were both trying to get up higher than the other one(the 2nd cat tree was higher than the other one).

Resident cat is terrified of kitten. They get along great through the screen door, but have made little contact face to face. That's kind of where we are at right now. We let them out together and for an hour I was playing with the kitten to distract her and it worked. But eventually they have to come face to face. It has been 1 year and I am so so tired of doing this. At some point they have to make contact. I have 2 months summer vacation and have to get them together before my job starts up again in August. Should I do the play/food thing every day just less time or several times a day for a few minutes??. I need them to be friends by August or I give up!!!

I honestly can't tell if kitten is being mean or not. She loves to charge at the resident cat to see if she can get a reaction or not. Resident cat is reacting less to this and is not panting anymore. BUT he is very very stressed, I can tell and it breaks my heart. I do have several Feliway's in the house and I'm trying to give him more attention.

Thanks for your response and ideas!

Originally Posted by Bronty  

...Resident cat is terrified of kitten....

I honestly can't tell if kitten is being mean or not. She loves to charge at the resident cat to see if she can get a reaction or not. Resident cat is reacting less to this and is not panting anymore. BUT he is very very stressed, I can tell and it breaks my heart. I do have several Feliway's in the house and I'm trying to give him more attention.

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I want to tell you a story.

My mom has a dog.  He's a Brittany Spaniel.

Every year, at the Fourth of July family picnic, some of the (bigger) kids go down by the pond to shoot off fireworks.

The dog seems to be terrified of the fireworks!

Now, I know that the sound of fireworks can hurt a dog's (or a cat's) ears because their hearing is more sensitive but this is a Brittany... a hunting dog.  Brittanies are bred to be tolerant of gunfire.  You can shoot a shotgun, ten feet away, from a dog like that an he won't even flinch.  But some little, old fireworks, a hundred yards away, scares this dog?

Something's wrong with this picture!

Well, it turns out, my mom always puts up a big fuss.  "You're going to SCARE the DOG," she shouts.

She hollers and scolds while the dog cowers at her feet.

(I bet some of you animal experts have figured it out, already.  )

The dog reacts to my mother.  He gets scared when she yells.  He THINKS that he should be scared because my mom is pitching a fit!

I tested this theory, too.  I shot a firecracker (from a distance) when my mom wasn't around.  The dog looked to see what the sound was but he didn't didn't get scared.  He didn't run away or cower.  Maybe the sound startled him.  It's only natural.

Then, the next time, when Mom was around, I did the same thing.  The dog ran away and hid inside the house.

So, can I ask you a question?

Do you think it's possible that your elder cat is reacting to the younger cat in this manner because he's picking up emotional cues from you?

Anything is possible

But, he can be stressed when I come home from work and he hasn't seen the kitten that day. Years ago he was attacked by another cat where I used to live - that cat was a neighbor cat who would jump in the yard, chase him around, and once bit a chunk out of his back. He may be equating this new kitten with that one time experience he had.

GREAT that the resident cat is not panting anymore and when the kitten charges he doesn't respond as much. That is progress.

I am guessing the thumping and the desire to get higher is play. They love to get high and if they can look down even better. If the kitten was mean and wanted to hurt the resident cat she would have.

I would do the play as long as the new kitten wants to play then feed. Also, if possible I would love for you to play with the kitten with the resident cat up in the tree watching the kitten play. Anything that can show the resident cat that the kitten does not want to hurt him and will pay attention to other things.

They are still separated for the most part? If so, I would really like them to be eating with each other if possible.

I also would like to get some scent swapping going. I would like you to get old shirts and get the new kitten scent on them. Then put it where the resident cat sleeps and eats. We want to associate the new cat with good things. Food, play, comfy bed, etc.

Does the resident cat play? If possible get him to play.

The fact the resident cat was trying to go higher than the new kitten and vice versa sounds pretty normal. They play and sometimes a little rough. If they get rough distract the new kitten with play. It sounds like she responds to play.

Is the  resident cat really that scared of the kitten? Does he hide and not come out? I would like to hear more about how responds and acts. What his body language is like.

I would also ask you to really give the resident cat a lot of love and special treats or food. Anything to make him feel wanted and secure. I use warm chicken thighs. Get him to play if possible as well. At some point try to get them to play together (if he can watch the new kitten from above that is great and maybe if he joins in it would be wonderful).

Cats do take on the humans energy to Caspers Human's point. I wonder if the resident cat is feeling your stress and mirroring it. I deal with ferals all the time. If I am afraid they get tense and are a bit dangerous. If I am calm and confident (but not foolish and naive and complacent) then the cat calms itself and isn't as dangerous. If at all possible try to act as calm and confident around the resident cat. It is easier said than done but it can be a positive feedback loop. The more calm and confident the members of the family are the more the cat settles down and the more the humans in the house are less stressed. I know it works for me and I can sense your stress so if I can over the internet I am guessing the cat can.

I think your new kitten is just a kitten being a kitten with boundless energy. Your resident cat sounds a little more "chill" but with the history of being attacked is a bit skittish. The more interactions they have (either via visual, scent swapping, site swapping, or actual physical proximity without barrier) without any violence the more accepting the resident cat will be.  Start with visual with the resident cat watching the new kitten play, do the scent swapping, do some site swapping (feed resident cat in new kitten area) and then when you feel comfortable get them together and play with the new kitten and distract the new kitten with play or food or both (whatever works) and let resident cat see that new kitten doesn't always focus or chase etc. Now that the resident cat doesn't react to the charge I am guessing the new kitten will stop that soon. Nice progress. 

Make sure you spoil and give a lot of love to the resident cat. Anything to build the confidence (along with play, food, and height).

Also, give the resident cat a place to go with multiple escape routes. So he can get away. Also. give the new kitten many places to hang out not near the resident cat. The more comfy places to hang out the less risk of dust ups. Cat trees by windows (make sure they can't tip into the window) etc. With escape routes so no one get trapped. The new kitten will probably find looking out the window as interesting as playing with the resident cat. If they do interact and it looks a bit too rough calmly step in with play with the new kitten.

What is the history on the new kitten? Was she raised by her mom? Was she a feral? Bottle raised?

Keep working on both cats confidence, play, food, height and love. I don't see why they do not at worst tolerate each other and not hurt each other by August and at best become friends. 

Please keep us up on the progress or any developments. There is nothing I want more to have your two cats living together happily. Hang in there. 

Casper often seems to know when one of his humans feels depressed and need some kitty snuggles.  He also knows when people are upset and he goes to another room until things cool down.  There's no scientific proof that cats and dogs can empathize with humans but anybody who has a pet can tell you that it's pretty clear that they react to humans' emotional states, even if it's only on an instinctual level.

I can't tell you or anybody whether their cat or dog is actually taking cues from their humans' behavior unless we actually see it happening but I know that it does happen.  It often happens at times or in ways that we don't expect.  All I can ask is for people to consider whether it is happening to them.

Who knows?  Maybe your elder cat really is being cowed by the younger cat.  What would happen if you just left the two cats to their own devices for a while, without reacting?  Maybe he would, finally, open up a can of Whoop-Ass and put the young whipper snapper in his place?

Sometimes, it is appropriate to let two cats fight it out until they establish a pecking order among themselves.

You've both given me hope. I will keep trying.

play-feed, play-feed, play-feed is my new mantra! But I am going to do shorter meet and greets with them and see if that helps - do you think that is good?

When the kitten starts going for the resident cat, should I just let them do what they are going to do or should I end that session and give them a break and then start up again later???

Yes they are mostly separated, but they have eaten together too. I'll keep doing that.

Resident cat:

He doesn't really play anymore.

When the kitten is out, he slowly turns to face her wherever she goes. He cried out in fear last time they were together when she bopped him.

He makes no movements if she is near him, he freezes and tries not to move. If she goes somewhere else, he'll sometimes move

He kept trying to get higher than her and she did not like that.

He growled when they were together last time as a warning to her

He avoids her if he can -through the screen

But they also greet and roll around on the floor on both sides of the screen

They have blinked at each other a few times

Kitten:

I got her at 8 weeks old, she is now 1 year. She was raised by her mom until 8 weeks old

I have kept them in different parts of the house off and on mostly, with some "in person meetings" along the way

She is very sweet and I think she just wants to be friends with resident cat (he tries too, but is scared of her)

She is very independent (unlike resident cat)

She runs fast through the house and has sudden movements back & forth (I have to watch where I walk because she's very unpredictable)

Mom (me):

I try to use a sweet voice and talk to the kitties as they are together (maybe I should stop!) lol

I would love to just put them together & see what happens - that is what we tried last time. Resident cat did "whoop" the kitten 2-3 times ago when she was chasing him through the house. I think I need to try the play-food-height thing a few times first though. Resident cat could really hurt the kitten if he wanted to (he is 15 lbs and she's probably 7 or 8). How do I know when to just put them together and hope for the best?

Thanks!

Bronty said:

When the kitten starts going for the resident cat, should I just let them do what they are going to do or should I end that session and give them a break and then start up again later???

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That depends.  If they are actually fighting and hurting each other then, yes, step in and separate them.

Cats can look and sound very fierce, at times, but cat-to-cat politics is different than human politics.  There can be a lot of growling, hissing and swatting but it doesn't mean that they are actually fighting.  It might look to us as if they are fighting but, to them, it's how they settle their differences.

If you step in too soon and break them up before that happens, you interrupt the "negotiation" process and the two cats can't establish their own, individual, boundaries.  You've got to let each cat tell the other where he stands.

If they are actually biting and hurting each other, that's a time to put a stop to it and send them to their own rooms.

The hard part is to know when "cat politics" turns into fighting.  For that, you've kind of got to know the cats.