Let's Babble Our Way to Post #4,000,000 And Win Prizes Too!

What do I do when I'm kinda bored? I make a FB page for my kittens. The ones that are not really kittens anymore, but I'll always reference them as "the kittens". That, and order a pizza.

foxxycat said:

 
very true Kittens mom. 

I just had to spray a ton of aphids off my false sunflower plants-they are bright red colored. i tried soapy water-didnt phase them. I got a new hose nozzle last night and put it on the highest setting and blasted them off. I hope the flowers still open. They are leaning over now. Darn bugs gross me out.

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I used tea on my roses when I still had rose bushes back east. Worked wonderfully.

@foxxycat, you may want to check Jon for a fever.  Not feeling that kind of heat could easily mean that his body temperature is too high.  I hope I'm wrong.

My mother never would have washed our mouths out with soap, and never needed to.

The best behaved children I know right now are the adolescent daughters of my Baha'i friends.  Their parents treat them like intelligent people, explain things to them and expect them to understand, never make fun of them for asking questions.  I've heard them discussing the debate over whether girls should be given Gardasil at the supper table, why rape victims so often blame themselves and why they shouldn't, no topic is considered to be too dangerous for the girls to hear about.  I have never seen these girls punished, for anything, and I have never seen any reason why they should be.  The worse thing I've seen them do is to put off doing their homework until the last minute.

Beating your child with a rod is, in fact, a form of child abuse; I don't care what the Bible says.  A quick spank on a diapered behind has value primarily for startling the child, which is frequently useful.  My mother was of the opinion that it was a bad idea to spank a child with her hand, because it would associate the mother's hand with punishment in the child's mind, so she always used the back side of a hair brush.  I believe she was wrong in this assessment, but she never hit hard enough to leave bruises, and she never spanked us in anger.

She was widely criticized by know-nothing strangers when we were little for using a harness and leash on us in stores, so we couldn't be kidnapped or lost -- "How dare you treat your child like a dog?!"  But we were never kidnapped, we didn't get separated from her, and we weren't scarred for life by it.

Margret

Margret said:

 
@foxxycat, you may want to check Jon for a fever.  Not feeling that kind of heat could easily mean that his body temperature is too high.  I hope I'm wrong.

My mother never would have washed our mouths out with soap, and never needed to.

The best behaved children I know right now are the adolescent daughters of my Baha'i friends.  Their parents treat them like intelligent people, explain things to them and expect them to understand, never make fun of them for asking questions.  I've heard them discussing the debate over whether girls should be given Gardasil at the supper table, why rape victims so often blame themselves and why they shouldn't, no topic is considered to be too dangerous for the girls to hear about.  I have never seen these girls punished, for anything, and I have never seen any reason why they should be.  The worse thing I've seen them do is to put off doing their homework until the last minute.

Beating your child with a rod is, in fact, a form of child abuse; I don't care what the Bible says.  A quick spank on a diapered behind has value primarily for startling the child, which is frequently useful.  My mother was of the opinion that it was a bad idea to spank a child with her hand, because it would associate the mother's hand with punishment in the child's mind, so she always used the back side of a hair brush.  I believe she was wrong in this assessment, but she never hit hard enough to leave bruises, and she never spanked us in anger.

She was widely criticized by know-nothing strangers when we were little for using a harness and leash on us in stores, so we couldn't be kidnapped or lost -- "How dare you treat your child like a dog?!"  But we were never kidnapped, we didn't get separated from her, and we weren't scarred for life by it.

Margret

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Children should be treated like beloved house cats. I have such trouble remembering to reach that 15 word limit. Children should be treated like beloved house cats was my completed thought.

Kittens Mom said:

 
Children should be treated like beloved house cats.

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    Just what I was thinking ( but you ,might want to quickly add a few words to your post so you make the 15 required by the thread rules!).   If I wouldn't do something to my cat I wouldn't do it to a child, for sure.   

Tallyollyopia said:

 
When LS was a toddler she loved throwing tantrums. She didn't necessarily throw them to get her own way (she didn't get her own way nearly often enough for that be a factor), but more to get reactions from other bystanders. One of her favorite places to "throw down", as AWM and I called it,  was in the middle of the grocery store. When that happened, AWM would simply walk away. We knew she was fine, because she was still screaming. One time a fellow customer came up to AWM and asked, "Aren't you afraid someone will take her?" AWM looked at him right back and said, "You really think someone would?"

---EDIT---

When we first moved in 1999, the first thing we did was get a puppy. The puppy was vicious. (We never  mistreated her.) She attacked all of us and over the course of the year that we had her we tried everything. We tried covering our arms with hot sauce (she loved it!!), we tried spritzing her with ammonia water (it ticked her off), and in a last ditch effort to try and get the dog to actually be part of the family AWM consulted a vet who told her to wrestle the dog (she was well over sixty pounds at that point--and it was all  muscle) down and look her in the eyes until she looked away. (Xena, the dog, was female.) When AWM told me what the vet told her to do I got the phone and was ready to dial for emergency services. I told her it was insane. She managed to win--barely. It was close. I'll never forget how scared I was. At least she was all right.

Yeah, I always feel sorry for children in situations like that.
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That reminds me of "The Ransom of Red Chief," by O. Henry, where the kidnappers eventually ended up paying the father to take his kid off their hands. 

So what happened with the dog?  Did she decide that she actually wasn't top dog and begin behaving herself?  I'm glad AWM came through it okay, and I agree that it was a dangerous thing for her, but assuming the human is large and strong enough to do it that is actually rather good advice.  It's a very effective way of expressing dominance over a canine.

Margret

I see absolutely NOTHING wrong with keeping kids on leashes. Thinking of so many recent events where I wish someone had. It doesn't hurt them at all.

I almost wish they'd make a law saying they should have a harness until they are x years old. Why? Then no one can complain that their kid will get made fun of (that's one reason I hear for being against it a lot). I mean, they require car seats for everyone under a certain height now, so why not? People might say that's a safety thing, but so is a harness if you think about it. Anyway, just my thoughts.

Mom used to tell me she would put a leash on me if I didn't behave. We had a LOT of dogs, and therefore a lot of leashes and collars. Mom also let me know I'd be spanked out in public if I misbehaved. World was so different back then. And it wasn't even THAT long ago.

My mother used to keep me on a leash outdoors if we were out in the street.       Apparently I had a habit of running out in to the middle of the road and laying flat down, refusing to move if I didn't want to go the same direction as her.           I suspect she would very happily have swapped me for another kid, or given me away to some unsuspecting person as long as they didn't live anywhere near her (in case they tried to give me back).      Think it's safe to say I was always a bit willful and independent.    

I also have a memory of my older brother being hauled up at the kitchen sink and his mouth literally being washed out with a bar of soap - it didn't seem to deter him from swearing unless our mother was around to hear him and it worked the same way on me too!  No way did I want her doing the same to me.      Child discipline was very different back in the 60's and 70's, there's no way it would be acceptable now.   We survived alright but I think it's good that things have changed.   Sadly, people who mistreat kids (and animals) are probably going to carry on doing so no matter what society and the laws say.

My dad use to use his belt to spank us.  I remember watching him kick my older brother because he had taken a bath and water leaked down the wall.  My mom said my dad had installed the drains wrong and they was the reason for the leak.  He had a terrible temper.  We got our revenge in little ways.  All we learned was to be careful when he was around.  We all hated him, now most of us just tolerate him.

The catholic schools are another abusive place.  I went to one and would never send my kids.  I heard some horror stories from my siblings whose kids went to them and I also heard horror stories from people in MD who sent their kids there.  I have many terrible memories of my time there.  Those nuns were evil, unhappy people.

Margret said:

 
That reminds me of "The Ransom of Red Chief," by O. Henry, where the kidnappers eventually ended up paying the father to take his kid off their hands. 

So what happened with the dog?  Did she decide that she actually wasn't top dog and begin behaving herself?  I'm glad AWM came through it okay, and I agree that it was a dangerous thing for her, but assuming the human is large and strong enough to do it that is actually rather good advice.  It's a very effective way of expressing dominance over a canine.

Margret

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Well, no. No it wasn't. The only change in behavior was that Xena went from front-on attacks to laying ambushes. (She was a very clever dog.) She once (and this was the last straw) played dead until someone came out to check on her and then  attacked. (AWM likes to joke that the dog was inhabited by the soul of a serial killer). I don't honestly know what happened to the dog. We called animal control for help--only to be told it was our problem and if she escaped and attacked anyone  it would be on us to make restitution. But, one day I went to school, and when I came home the dog was gone. (It still took almost a year and a half for me to brave the backyard after that.) To be honest, the dog had most of us so terrified that we never asked what happened to her.

And in other news--more work tonight!   Well, it could be worse. I could still be looking for a job. 

Handsome Kitty said:

My dad use to use his belt to spank us.  I remember watching him kick my older brother because he had taken a bath and water leaked down the wall.  My mom said my dad had installed the drains wrong and they was the reason for the leak.  He had a terrible temper.  We got our revenge in little ways.  All we learned was to be careful when he was around.  We all hated him, now most of us just tolerate him.

The catholic schools are another abusive place.  I went to one and would never send my kids.  I heard some horror stories from my siblings whose kids went to them and I also heard horror stories from people in MD who sent their kids there.  I have many terrible memories of my time there.  Those nuns were evil, unhappy people.

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My father was raised in a Catholic orphanage (apparently that was the thing to do if the mother passed away and only the father survived back then, especially with immigrants) and I heard the horror stories about the nuns. Scary sounding people! I am guessing they are nothing like that nowadays, at least hoping they aren't.

Guilty of foul language. I have always been this way. It doesnt help that I work in a man's world and thats all I hear. Honestly it doesnt faze me. I try to watch my mouth around mixed company. Crazy as it sounds I dont like swearing around women. Sexist I guess. I find that certain people just express themselves this way. I suppose its lazy mans thinking but sometimes I get SO frustrated that one of those words just feels so much better. Same thing with swinging a sledge hammer at the counter at work when people annoy me. These are people who have picked on me or trying to bother me when I havent woken up yet or when we were talking about our coworker and I expressed my anger at the situation. I would never hurt an animal.

growing up I didnt beat up my stuffed animals because I thought they were real. So I always treated them like real animals. Crazy girl I was. As far as dad spanking me-its only happened a handful of times. the other was when I gave them the silent treatment. They were at someones house and they wanted me to talk to this person and talk about something but I wasnt interested in talking about what my dad wanted me to talk about.. I got a spanking after..kept saying I embarrassed him. Good grief I was 6 and super shy. I would NEVER ask a question or approach someone I dont know. Fast forward these years=still the same. but I am trying to break free from this. 

so yeah my mother was rational about discipline, we kept MANY secrets from dad. she didnt tell him anything because she didnt want him taking it out on me. So we had many secrets that went to her grave when she passed.

I think a leash is a brilliant idea. I all the way support this. Luckily I wanted tobe near mom so I never wandered off-I knew what the consequences were for disobedience. Yeah that was not fun. but dont worry I escaped. I learned to live at other peoples houses after 14 so I didnt have to deal with it. and thats todays memories..escaping to my gf house and peace and quiet-until the sisters argued....hahaha..

Donutte said:

My father was raised in a Catholic orphanage (apparently that was the thing to do if the mother passed away and only the father survived back then, especially with immigrants) and I heard the horror stories about the nuns. Scary sounding people! I am guessing they are nothing like that nowadays, at least hoping they aren't.

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They are still mean and corporal punishment is allowed because it is a private school.  One teenage boy who had horrible acne on his face and didn't shave before going to school because of it was made to shave with a razor (not an electric one) at the school.  Why any parents put up with this is beyond me.

wow that is scary and I am sorry for all who endured this. At least now we are finally changing the way we do discipline. I know all I heard my mother say is she didnt want me to go through the things she did and also she wanted better things for me than what she had-this I knew was her love for me. As I got older and had step children I understood why she did the things she did even if I didnt agree with it. At least my step kids only had their mother to deal with as far as hateful violence. The father never spanked the girls but somedays I think he should have. Those two used to fight so bad and I never understood how they could hate each other so much until a few years passed and I saw the whole picture. I never would have been allowed to act out my anger against anyone the way the girls did. 

On   a different note-got to water the gardens but I have so much work to do. the weeds are out of control. I pulled up quite a bit but my back is spasming so hopefully I can sleep tonight. I got the fan in the window to blow in cool air. its getting sticky already.

@Kittens Mom: I just read that banana peels will keep aphids away- I'll have to try that

@Margret: how old are your Baha'i's friend's daughters? I think we were mainly talking about much smaller children, the kind that throw temper tantrums and are not old enough for discussion.

Spare the rod: we are not talking about "beating", we are talking about correcting a child and if that means "rod", I think that is no less than your mom's hairbrush.

When and where I grew up it was common to see children in a harness and leashes. Mom only has so many hands and a small child can let go of mom's hand really fast and get into trouble like running into the street. I only had to keep one of mine on a leash for just that reason.

@Tallyollyopia: I know that "throwing down". I would grab that kid, leave the grocery cart where it was and leave the store, take the brat home and confine him to his room. Go back to the store ALONE once Daddy got home. Problem solved although Daddy didn't like the idea of being the childcare provider with a naughty child on his hands who had just had a hissy fit in the store..

@Donutte: good idea - make it mandatory to put kids on a leash in public same as seat belts and car seats

@MServant: sometimes just seeing the punishment given to someone else will keep one from doing the same thing. But let's not carry that too far: It has not worked in crime and punishment, grown people still do horrible things to each other no matter what the consequences are.

I think some of the things in child punishments need to be brought back as they worked. There used to be a saying : The Beat generation is the unspanked generation, meaning those with no respect for today's mores and laws are those who were never disciplined.

segelkatt said:

@Tallyollyopia: I know that "throwing down". I would grab that kid, leave the grocery cart where it was and leave the store, take the brat home and confine him to his room. Go back to the store ALONE once Daddy got home. Problem solved although Daddy didn't like the idea of being the childcare provider with a naughty child on his hands who had just had a hissy fit in the store..

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Problem was, SD was working fourteen-hour shifts and couldn't  help take care of us kids. (Although, as the eldest, I got drafted to help--a lot. I almost went into a childcare field because of it, but being good at something and enjoying  something are two very different things.) 

OK--computer issues. I took pics and a video with AWM's phone (she has a smartphone) and went to transfer them to the computer. I pulled up the file, selected the items I wanted transferred, and dragged to drop them in the right folder. A window came up asking me if I wanted to copy the files. I clicked okay and suddenly the phone dumped  thousands of pictures into the hard drive, including ones that AWM thought had been deleted--and ones that were from another phone  entirely! I'm like, what?   But I found more pics of the cats, so when I get some time and I'm not trying to get into work mode, I'll post them for everyone. 

MServant said:

 
My mother used to keep me on a leash outdoors if we were out in the street.  

    Apparently I had a habit of running out in to the middle of the road and laying flat down, refusing to move if I didn't want to go the same direction as her.  

 

 

    I suspect she would very happily have swapped me for another kid, or given me away to some unsuspecting person as long as they didn't live anywhere near her (in case they tried to give me back).  

   Think it's safe to say I was always a bit willful and independent.  

 

I also have a memory of my older brother being hauled up at the kitchen sink and his mouth literally being washed out with a bar of soap - it didn't seem to deter him from swearing unless our mother was around to hear him and it worked the same way on me too!  No way did I want her doing the same to me. 

    Child discipline was very different back in the 60's and 70's, there's no way it would be acceptable now.   We survived alright but I think it's good that things have changed.   Sadly, people who mistreat kids (and animals) are probably going to carry on doing so no matter what society and the laws say.

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I know I shouldn't laugh because it really was terribly dangerous, but I had to laugh at the idea of a little @MServant running out in the middle of the road and plopping down flat to get her own way.  You were one smart little kid if you were looking for a way to get parental attention in a hurry.   On the other hand, it's lucky you lived long enough to be the MServant we know and love today!  

Handsome Kitty said:

 
My dad use to use his belt to spank us.  I remember watching him kick my older brother because he had taken a bath and water leaked down the wall.  My mom said my dad had installed the drains wrong and they was the reason for the leak.  He had a terrible temper.  We got our revenge in little ways.  All we learned was to be careful when he was around.  We all hated him, now most of us just tolerate him.

The catholic schools are another abusive place.  I went to one and would never send my kids.  I heard some horror stories from my siblings whose kids went to them and I also heard horror stories from people in MD who sent their kids there.  I have many terrible memories of my time there.  Those nuns were evil, unhappy people.

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Again, all my sympathies to the little @Handsome Kitty and your brother. That very definitely is child abuse.  Parents like that often reap their own form of karma late in life when their adult kids want nothing to do with them.   It serves them right, too.

Re:  nuns - my ex-husband was schooled first by the nuns and then the Jesuits.  As a non-Catholic I always thought nuns were gentle souls.  Not so. They were very harsh.  The Jesuits, however, taught my ex how to argue, training I still hold against the Jesuits to this day.

Handsome Kitty said:

 
My dad use to use his belt to spank us.  I remember watching him kick my older brother because he had taken a bath and water leaked down the wall.  My mom said my dad had installed the drains wrong and they was the reason for the leak.  He had a terrible temper.  We got our revenge in little ways.  All we learned was to be careful when he was around.  We all hated him, now most of us just tolerate him.

The catholic schools are another abusive place.  I went to one and would never send my kids.  I heard some horror stories from my siblings whose kids went to them and I also heard horror stories from people in MD who sent their kids there.  I have many terrible memories of my time there.  Those nuns were evil, unhappy people.

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My parents were and still are in fact unhappily married. My father was brutal my mother handled most of the mental assault. Although he left plenty of mental scars and my mother is responsible for a scar on my leg that I will carry to the grave. My dad beat my brother in fact he harassed him so badly he dropped out of college because he couldn't take the nightly scream fest about how lucky he was and that he wasn't studying hard enough even though my dad would holler at him for 3-4 hours a night. Made study kinda hard. My younger sister is a life long binge and purge. I had the least contact with my parents in my adult life and it benefited me to get out the entanglement.

On thing I see over and over are adult children still being tortured by their aging parents who still treat them like they are minors. I haven't spoken directly to either of my parents since 1992. I like it that way.

Kittens Mom said:

 
My parents were and still are in fact unhappily married. My father was brutal my mother handled most of the mental assault. Although he left plenty of mental scars and my mother is responsible for a scar on my leg that I will carry to the grave. My dad beat my brother in fact he harassed him so badly he dropped out of college because he couldn't take the nightly scream fest about how lucky he was and that he wasn't studying hard enough even though my dad would holler at him for 3-4 hours a night. Made study kinda hard. My younger sister is a life long binge and purge. I had the least contact with my parents in my adult life and it benefited me to get out the entanglement.

On thing I see over and over are adult children still being tortured by their aging parents who still treat them like they are minors. I haven't spoken directly to either of my parents since 1992. I like it that way.

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How awful.  My heart goes out to the young @Kittens Mom and your siblings.  Your siblings would undoubtedly feel so much better if they could make the break that you did.  Parents who are this cruel to their young children deserve to spend their last years alone.  Actually, parents who are this cruel to their young children should have those kids taken away.  It's easy for me to be an armchair expert, but I really hate to see kids mistreated. Much the way that mistreatment of animals affects me - they are young and innocent.  (Not to say that young children are animals...) (I've got myself in a tangle here and am now going to slink off quietly)

Kittens Mom said:

 
My parents were and still are in fact unhappily married. My father was brutal my mother handled most of the mental assault. Although he left plenty of mental scars and my mother is responsible for a scar on my leg that I will carry to the grave. My dad beat my brother in fact he harassed him so badly he dropped out of college because he couldn't take the nightly scream fest about how lucky he was and that he wasn't studying hard enough even though my dad would holler at him for 3-4 hours a night. Made study kinda hard. My younger sister is a life long binge and purge. I had the least contact with my parents in my adult life and it benefited me to get out the entanglement.

On thing I see over and over are adult children still being tortured by their aging parents who still treat them like they are minors. I haven't spoken directly to either of my parents since 1992. I like it that way.

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I understand completely.  It's curious, in my family there were 9 kids (Irish Catholic) and the older ones had it rougher.  When they were older they would help us hide our misdeeds and keep us out of trouble.  My mother also finally threatened to have him arrested if he hit her or any of the kids again.  They finally separated when I was 16.  It took my dad sitting in a chair in the front room with his hunting gun and said I'm gonna get this one for that etc. We had all left and one sister returned home unaware he was on a tear and heard him as she was hiding in the bedroom off the front of the house.