How do I know how close to stay when labouring starts?

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doraaq

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These vets advice is correct in many cases - perhaps even most cases of kittens deformities.  But THIS here is one of exceptions. usually twisted legs they get all-right, sometimes even spontaneously.  but a much safer bet is to help out by active massage and physiotherapy gymnastics.  @catwoman707 is very good to explaing how and where.  Im calling on her again, because Im not sure the calling above "took", the letters arent blue there.

I want to add, before you start the massage session, be sure the legs are warm!  Warm them up with something, your hands at least.   also, begin each session with small movements, before you press on a little more.   So its warming up stepwise.

Do everything near the mom, so she notices you arent harming her baby and the baby is near.   Although if the baby protests much, you must do it a little aside.

On the other hand, such gimnastics shouldnt be painful, if its pain, you do too much.   Having the tissues nicely warmed up helps of course.
Great - I'm so glad to hear they have a good chance of healing. I just did a little massage and gentle stretching in front of mum and they both accepted it.

I think it happened because the mum is so tiny - looking at them, I can't believe they all fit inside her.  
 

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thanks! I was hoping someone would know the gender! 
It's really hard to tell at this age because everything is a bit swollen.  I actually think it might be a boy.  You'll be able to tell for sure in a few days.
 

catwoman707

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Dora is a lovely girl, and doing a fine job despite her being a kitten herself!

First, if the wet soiled bedding has not been changed, it needs to be done by now, it is wet and dirty and cold, you probably have done it by now, but if not, it's time :)

It amazes me the remarks by 2 vets, ridiculous! While vets here in the US are not quite so bad, they are mostly clueless with newborns as well, so not much better!  


Starting now, those legs can easily repair, it is not an actual deformity but inside, tendons that were partially stunted, so you will be massaging to stimulate growth, I will explain.

Just using your first finger and thumb, massage the heck out of the leg and foot, over and over, taking your time, really loosening up and working the leg in to a warmed and very relaxed state, at least a full 5 minutes on each, you will begin to gently stretch the leg in to the correct position, even slightly over correcting. 

Do this to each leg, several times a day.

NOW is the ideal time, easiest and works the fastest, their limbs are extremely soft and pliable in their first days of life, you will be surprised at how fast you see the difference, in just a few days.

Once they look normal again, you can stop, but keep an eye that they are now growing in the correct position, if not completely yet, start this up again, but it usually does take and no need to do it after they correctly grow.

In one week they will have just about doubled in size, which is also why these first days will be so easy to manipulate them.
 
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doraaq

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Dora is a lovely girl, and doing a fine job despite her being a kitten herself!

First, if the wet soiled bedding has not been changed, it needs to be done by now, it is wet and dirty and cold, you probably have done it by now, but if not, it's time :)

It amazes me the remarks by 2 vets, ridiculous! While vets here in the US are not quite so bad, they are mostly clueless with newborns as well, so not much better!  


Starting now, those legs can easily repair, it is not an actual deformity but inside, tendons that were partially stunted, so you will be massaging to stimulate growth, I will explain.

Just using your first finger and thumb, massage the heck out of the leg and foot, over and over, taking your time, really loosening up and working the leg in to a warmed and very relaxed state, at least a full 5 minutes on each, you will begin to gently stretch the leg in to the correct position, even slightly over correcting. 

Do this to each leg, several times a day.

NOW is the ideal time, easiest and works the fastest, their limbs are extremely soft and pliable in their first days of life, you will be surprised at how fast you see the difference, in just a few days.

Once they look normal again, you can stop, but keep an eye that they are now growing in the correct position, if not completely yet, start this up again, but it usually does take and no need to do it after they correctly grow.

In one week they will have just about doubled in size, which is also why these first days will be so easy to manipulate them.
Thanks so much catwoman707, much more helpful than the vets!  

I changed the bedding yesterday and I've done the massage/stretching twice so far. Could you tell me what the optimum number of times to do this each day is? I'm staying home with them so I can do it as often as necessary, but I don't want to overdo it. 
 
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talkingpeanut

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I would think short sessions as often as you can manage. 4-6 times a day?
 
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doraaq

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I would think short sessions as often as you can manage. 4-6 times a day?
Great, thanks. I've been doing every three hours (except for at night) so that's around 5 times a day. 
 

catwoman707

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Great, thanks. I've been doing every three hours (except for at night) so that's around 5 times a day. 
Yes, I was coming here to say that there really is no limit, or doing it too much.

A good 4-5 times a day is perfect!

Be sure to spend a good amt of time really working those legs, massage, massage, massage! This stimulates the tendon growth, then work on the stretching and correctional positioning.

Very soon you will be seeing the difference.

BTW, it's a girl :)

Swelling in new kittens can fool you easily, but you can compare kittens and will find that girls have their 2 holes closer together than the boys do. 
 
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doraaq

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My rescue cat has five five-week-old kittens, and has been showing signs of being in heat for two weeks. I'm very anxious to get her spayed. Her kittens are eating some solid food (some more than others) but they are all still nursing regularly as well. When my other cats were spayed they had at least 5 stitches and I worry the kittens will pull the stitches out when nursing, but I can't separate them for a whole week while she heals. Does anyone have any advice on this? She was a street cat and is not used to being confined, and is very distressed, so I would like her to be spayed as soon as possible. 
 

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You can safely spay mama cat when the kittens are about 8 weeks old.

There are some vets who know how to spay a nursing cat, by making the incision in a different area, where the kittens wouldn't disturb it. That is really only recommended in emergencies, or if the mama cat HAS to remain outdoors where she can become pregnant quickly.

As far as stitches go, vets where I live tend to do internal sutures when spaying a cat, so kittens couldn't rip it out, though it still isn't recommended to spay a nursing cat until the kittens are 8 weeks, give or take a few days if needed.

My nursing cat is set to be fixed when the kittens are 7 and a half weeks old, which works for me. If the vet can do the surgery where the incision is made elsewhere, then you could easily continue, if not, you should wait.

I know having a frustrated cat in heat is maddening! Mine goes insane, and has been insane for a week (she JUST had kittens 2 weeks ago) 

meowing CONSTANTLY, no exaggeration there. My boyfriend and I are sleeping on the couch to escape the meows. Not to mention she tore the carpet up trying to get out to find a mate! (there goes our deposit!)

So I understand, it's stressful for her to be in heat, and it's stressful on us humans too! It's best to wait if at all possible.
 
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doraaq

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Thanks newkitties - sounds like I'll have to wait a few weeks. The vets here don't do internal sutures, or alternative incision sites, unfortunately (I'm in the Middle East).

Poor you, sleeping on the sofa! The howling is truly maddening - from her, and the tom cats gathered outside. I'm grateful now that I don't have carpets!  
 
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doraaq

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I have 10-week-old kittens, and one of them has become very weak in the last two days. She is limp when I pick her up, I feed her separately because she is weaker than the others and doesn't get to the food bowls when they are around. She eats a little and drinks a little but it seems like it's tiring for her just to walk, and she is mostly sleeping. She doesn't have fleas and has no other symptoms except she is a bit skinnier than her litter mates. My vet is coming either Tuesday or Thursday, but I wondered if there is anything I can do for her in the meantime? .  
 

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I have 10-week-old kittens, and one of them has become very weak in the last two days. She is limp when I pick her up, I feed her separately because she is weaker than the others and doesn't get to the food bowls when they are around. She eats a little and drinks a little but it seems like it's tiring for her just to walk, and she is mostly sleeping. She doesn't have fleas and has no other symptoms except she is a bit skinnier than her litter mates. My vet is coming either Tuesday or Thursday, but I wondered if there is anything I can do for her in the meantime? .  
You can smear a little light karo syrup or watered down honey on her gums or lips.  Glucose is best if you have it.  I've only seen it at a specialty shop though.  The sugar should go right into her bloodstream and give a burst of energy.  Give this right before feeding. 

Are you bottle feeding or is mom nursing.  If mom is nursing, you can also supplement this kitten with KMR (Kitten Milk Replacer) or whole fat goat's milk.  Both the kitten and the KMR/milk must be warm.  Kittens cannot digest food when they are cold and they cannot digest cold food.  Hold or place the kitten tummy down hear up like she is nursing on mom.  Use a small needleless syringe and put a small drop in her cheek.  Wait for the kitten to swallow, take a breath and repeat.  It is slow at first because it will take both of you time to figure it out.  Don't panic or rush, just take your time.
 
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doraaq

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There is definitely something wrong with her, she needs to see a vet tomorrow.
I hope she will be able to - it's a public holiday here this week, so it's difficult to arrange an appointment with my vet. There is another vet I could see, but I once took a sick kitten I found to him, he gave her three injections and she died after that, so I don't want to go back to him. 
 
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doraaq

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You can smear a little light karo syrup or watered down honey on her gums or lips.  Glucose is best if you have it.  I've only seen it at a specialty shop though.  The sugar should go right into her bloodstream and give a burst of energy.  Give this right before feeding. 

Are you bottle feeding or is mom nursing.  If mom is nursing, you can also supplement this kitten with KMR (Kitten Milk Replacer) or whole fat goat's milk.  Both the kitten and the KMR/milk must be warm.  Kittens cannot digest food when they are cold and they cannot digest cold food.  Hold or place the kitten tummy down hear up like she is nursing on mom.  Use a small needleless syringe and put a small drop in her cheek.  Wait for the kitten to swallow, take a breath and repeat.  It is slow at first because it will take both of you time to figure it out.  Don't panic or rush, just take your time.
Thanks for your advice Handsome Kitty.

She is 10 weeks old so she is already weaned - and I had to get the mum spayed. I have some karo syrup - I'll try that. 
 

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I wish you could tell the colour of cats lips and paws better as in is she turning blue around the edges ; heart murmur or lung problems?
 

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Thanks for your advice Handsome Kitty.

She is 10 weeks old so she is already weaned - and I had to get the mum spayed. I have some karo syrup - I'll try that. 
HandsomeKittys advices are from the lore of knowledge for small kittens, but I too think these advices apply here too, on a weak older kitten.  And thus, good kmr or goat milk - or perhaps even vice versa - goats milk preferably raw, but if you cant get this, its OK with good kmr - may be useful here.  If she already eats wet food, good, but as supplement at least.
 
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doraaq

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Thanks Stefanz and Howmany - I tried the karo syrup and it seems to have worked very well! Her appetite was much better today. She is no longer limp when I pick her up, and she's walking fine now too. She is still not as energetic as her brothers and sisters, and she still needs to put on weight but the outlook is much more positive. 

The vet wasn't able to come today but she will see her on Thursday to check on her. 

Thanks for your help. 
 
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