Not considering euthanasia anymore

How about calling out those people who you helped? I know its very hard to ask for help. I get it. Totally. Maybe a day spent dialing those numbers for other people who have helped you-so you have some help if you decide to go through the surgery. And I do understand why you are thinking about euth. I get it. I only wish people would help others more and stop being so self absorbed. My heart aches for you.

Foxxy, thank you. You know how it goes... when I call, everyone is "busy" or hey dance around. Well, I can be busy, too, I guess.

I am not afraid to do what's necessary. But I only have one pair of hands. I need two to feed him. He's fine with his pills and even with the needle for his fluids. It's the feeding that I just can't accomplish, and I fear that the more I struggle to feed him, the more he will resist and then not eat at all.

I'm fine with the idea of a PEG tube (generic term for any one of a number of kinds of feeding tubes). I know that many cats deal with a tube as if it's nothing. I know it will help him. Heck, I'd even be glad to be the tech who helps the doc install it. I've done many in-clinic procedures on my cats over the years and it doesn't bother me any more than helping any other patient. I've had cancer cats at home. I've got one now who has bad arthritis and she's in pain sometimes-- but at least she's eating well. Her med right now is just Cosequin, because the tramadol sent her down a rabbit hole, so to speak, and she can't have steroids. The Cosequin is doing wonders for her! She's actually the most active and playful of our 3... and she's the oldest at 14! It was my decision to start the Cosequin, and it was the best thing we could have done. It's helped tremendously. I have another who gets lysine for chronic herpes. She's doing well, too, and doesn't fight me at all. But Meeze is in a ton of pain. He associates food with that pain. He associates me with causing pain by making him eat. And he also senses my frustration at not being able to effectively help him. I can't hide that from him-- he knows me too well.

So it's not a "personal thing". It's a genuine case of having a cat who is afraid of the food, afraid of me, and no help.

I told my man that I shouldn't always have to be the bogeyman. He says that it's my job to do the cats just like it's "his job" to do the electrical work around here (never mind that I do some of that, too! I'm a woman of many talents). Besides, even if he was a helper, he is away a lot of the time on business. So I'd be alone anyway.

Have you talked to the vet about the situation? Won't the office keep an ill cat for a couple of days? Our vets deal with a lot of feral or semi-feral cats, so we basically drop them off when we manage to catch them and go on from there. Perhaps you could arrange to drop him off on a certain day, rather than for a particular appointment. That way you wouldn't have to worry about the cab being late. The techs or vets might be able to syringe feed Schrodie or place a feeding tube and then go ahead with the extractions in a day or so. Surely the risk of his not making it through surgery isn't as bad as giving up and putting him to sleep.

Deep breath

I gave it another try with some Gerber's baby food. Only-- I didn't put it in a syringe. I just spooned a bit up and let him sniff of it. I wanted to judge his reaction to the presence of the food. He went right for it, took a few cautious laps and it didn't seem to hurt. He tore that ish down!

So, I just held the jar in front of him and he lapped until he could hardly reach any more. That's about half a jar! He has been eating occasionally, but would stop as soon as the food "bit" him. This time, I  stopped after he ate what I thought was a pretty good snack. He was still taking the food when I ended the feed session. I think he ate enough to take away any serious hunger, but not enough to totally fill him up. I went back a little later and offered some more. He finished the entire jar! 

He's also not really hiding now, he's just buried in a laundry basket with his little head poking out. He can burrow down if he wants to, but right now he's just making himself cozy.

I want to break the cycle of "Every single time I eat, it hurts. So I won't eat."  I think that if I let him snack often with tasty things and stop before it hurts, I can build his trust back. I gave him a flavor that he doesn't get very often: baby food ham-- (label says it's just water and "fresh" ham which supposedly as I know it, means "uncured/unsmoked pork butt meat" and therefore, safer. It's called 'ham' because people feel funny eating 'butt', LOL!)

I  think that the novel serving vessel (the jar and spoon) is something he doesn't associate with pain. That, and the different flavor that he likes when he's well, were probably enough to make him want to try. Thus it proves that he HAS an appetite. It may hurt for the syringe to touch his mouth, even though I'm being gentle. I'll cruise the food aisle at my favorite pet supplies store to see if they have something super-smooth like that in a more nutritionally balanced formula. While baby food is better than "nothing", it isn't "real great". I need to see if there is something better-for-him that he can lick at other than the a/d (that he associates with pain).

Gosh, I wish there was a "Cat Orajel" besides Bupe... just racking my brains here (and yes, I'll discuss this with the rDVM)-- I wonder if some sort of glycerin-based mouth "wipe" or swab might work? I wonder if there's a recipe for a home-made version. Glycerin seems safe enough by itself, but I wonder if it might help him like it helps people who have mouth ulcers  (inflamed tissue!) from chemo or Sjögren's disease or other condition where there's little or no saliva. The drooling might be an attempt by the mouth to lubricate that inflamed stomatitis area, so I wonder if glycerin MIGHT be useful somehow. Something to discuss, anyway.

 I have a call in for some Bupe to his rDVM, and I'm waiting for a call back. It's Monday, all the E-Vet follow-ups are coming in, all the "He got sick over the weekend" calls are coming in. I know how it is. 

I don't think I'm quite ready to pull the trigger, not after seeing him enjoy the heck out of that baby food.

jcat said:

Have you talked to the vet about the situation? Won't the office keep an ill cat for a couple of days? Our vets deal with a lot of feral or semi-feral cats, so we basically drop them off when we manage to catch them and go on from there. Perhaps you could arrange to drop him off on a certain day, rather than for a particular appointment. That way you wouldn't have to worry about the cab being late. The techs or vets might be able to syringe feed Schrodie or place a feeding tube and then go ahead with the extractions in a day or so. Surely the risk of his not making it through surgery isn't as bad as giving up and putting him to sleep.

Click to expand...

I've got a call in now, and waiting for the call back. Yup, that's what I was thinking of. Your post came before my last one-- before the page refreshed so sorry for the extra post now. I'm not unduly worried about the surgery. 

I calmed down when we were bonding over a jar of Gerber's ham baby food and a spoon (he ate the WHOLE jar in 2 settings)... and that's probably the best thing. In fact, if it can be scheduled, I would just as soon go ahead "yesterday" with the FME, IF he's up to it. And I think a day or two of good feeding ought to do the trick in that regard. It's a new week, not a weekend when everyone is closed. We have a shot at this.

I'm also going to discuss doxycycline as his antibiotic for a while until this is done. Doxy seems to have an effect on the inflammation, as well as being a decent antibiotic for oral issues (clindamycin is another really good one). Since he's so inflamed, I wonder if that might be something to consider-- antimicrobial plus anti-inflammatory. It comes in a liquid, too, so we can skip the issue of ulcers in the throat if the pill gets hung up. Thankfully, I can give oral pills and liquids-- he LOVES his vitamin and just licks that off the dropper.

The sooner I get this done-- the better I can preserve the bond and maintain his happy life. He's a very loving and forgiving cat. I just don't want to treat him in a way that has me needing to ask for his forgiveness.

that you got him to eat! It'd be great if you could mix his meds with liquid/paste/food that he likes. that he can have the surgery asap!

The meds aren't a problem. I can give those. He gets clavamox (1 tab BID, 62,5 mg) and 150 ml of Lactated Ringers' solution with 10 ml of potassium chloride infused in the bag (additive), SQ. He's fine for the SQ's and the clavamox tabs because I can give pills quite easily, without having to touch his muzzle. No pill popper needed, either. It's a trick I learned from a vet a long time ago, at my first practice. Easier to show than to tell.

Still waiting on the return call from the rDVM... maybe she will call at the end of the day.

Doxy is a great med for infections. It works really well for mouth bacteria. Which more than likely is from that damn herpes virus..so glad you got him to eat.

Ham babyfood is a big hit in my house=they absolutely love it. the beef is soso. the chicken and turkey are good but that ham/pork flavor!!

The pork flavored Renal diet from Royal Canin was a BIG seller when I was still active, but it seems that RC changed their line-up. I see one that has pork "meal", but the base meat is chicken. The one I remember was actually pork based. I don't see that one anymore, unfortunately. That one FAR, FAR outsold ANY of the renal diets we carried. All of my cats love pork-- they get a little taste when I make grilled (plain) chops or country ribs. They love roast pork.

I wonder why pork cat food isn't so widely available if so many cats seemed to love it so much?

Stocking up on ham baby food...

This is good. He is now up in the upper crow's nest of his cat tree! The tree is in the living room, by the corner windows. He feels decent enough to climb, apparently, something he hasn't done for a couple of days. The little bug even purred at me a little.

The rDVM (Dr. E) returned my call and approved Buprenex. She originally wanted to try the Onsior (a newer NSAID for cats... robenacoxib), but I reminded her that he has had Depo in the past week. So, she changed it to the Bupe. She said that it "probably" would have been okay, but we'll hold off on that just to be safe.

He also ate some more baby food-- chicken Beech Nut this time. Not as enthused-- I think he like the Gerber "ham" flavor better. But he ate about 1/3 of the jar of chicken so he's had 1-1/3 jars of baby food (BF) today so far and it's only 2:30 pm local. Much, much better than he's done for the past couple of days.

He will also continue the fluids for another day or two, along with Laxatone because he is/ was "full of ". He finally pooped some dry stuff and he's getting better hydration and "gut grease". so that will clear him out. Just being constipated is cause to feel puny.

Looks like we will be able to get him to the point where he can have his surgery. Paws crossed that he gets some relief with the Buprenex and starts eating! 

What I was seeing and experiencing earlier was not good at all. I have more hope now.

Oh, reading this thread and watching it go from despair to hope makes me SO happy! I'm so happy you found him in the laundry (my cats LOVE the laundry!) and even more so that he ATE! That is so the best feeling ever to see them so interested in and eating food when they haven't been eating.

He got his Buprenex. I did his first dose and he already seems a little happier. Not quite hungry yet, but I'm not TOO worried. He did eat a whole jar and then some of the baby food earlier, and he got his fluids about an hour ago.

Seeing him up in the crow's nest is a pretty good sign. He has the energy to climb, at least, and the interest to look out the windows. That tells me that his quality of life is at least "decent"... though it can be better still with those teeth taken care of. Nonetheless, it's a positive sign.

HE'S EATING BY HIMSELF!!!  

I agree with Donette! I am so thrilled to hear that he is eating on his own and easing your worried mind! Today is a good day after all.

Wonderful news!

The thread title has been changed.

Awesome! There is nothing like the relief when a cat who has refused food starts to eat on his own. In the best of circumstances, it isn't easy to syringe food. Way back in the 80s, I had a cat that had the feeding tube. In fact she was the 2nd cat in vet history to get a feeding tube. Hazel's claim to fame. When she started feeling better, it was harder and harder to feed her through that tube. It's still a syringe.

Yes, it's quite a relief! He ate another 2/3 jar of "ham" flavored baby food, right out of the jar. He only ate 2/3 of the jar because that's all his tongue could reach. I also picked up some Fancy Feast "gravy pouches" to add to the baby food in order to add some cat-appropriate vitamins and nutrients... sort of a hearty "soup". I knew he had an appetite all along, but it's fear of pain keeping him from just chowing down like the vacuum cleaner that he usually is. This is usually a cat who cruises the joint looking for leftovers. He sure found some and apparently enjoyed what he found.

Hmm, I wonder if I could place a few small loads around his area and let him "hunt" them out-- easy to find, of course. Maybe the extra touch of "hunting" for food or simply "discovering" a cache might tip his interest over to the "eat zone". Curiosity and happiness at finding a treat or "surprise" might be enough for him to at least try to eat the food. I can do this after a Bupe treatment. He ate the leftovers about 2 hours post-Bupe. And oddly, he actually tried to lick the Bupe up as I was putting it in his mouth. He didn't fight it... he seemed to enjoy the taste somehow. I know they say that cats can't taste sweet, but I see evidence to the contrary every time I get a donut or eat some sweet yogurt. I even had a cat who hopped up on the counter and raided the sugar bowl one morning and ate straight sugar! She also loved peaches (no pit, of course!), butter and flour-- yes, white flour. A bag spilled once out in the yard as we were carring groceries in, and a bag of flour burst on the ground. We came back out to clean up the mess, and there's Nirvana in the pile of flour, black cat with white paws and face from getting into the pile. Too funny! Maybe she was trying to make a peach cobbler. Who knows?

Nirvana, a.k.a. "Miss Kitty" (3/1992-8/2002, abandoned by a neighbor in 1999 when he moved and LEFT HER BEHIND! But she had already found safe harbor at our place during inclement weather and was considered a part of our family before the jerk left. Heartworm Positive, confirmed through 2 blood tests and a sonogram. Died of the disease 6 months after diagnosis. Taught us the utmost importance of HW prevention for cats!  Hunts with StarClan... "OwlStar of PrairieClan"; succeeded by Skye-- "SkyStar of PrairieClan")


I wonder if the Bupe is a little sweet-tasting.

What DOES taste nasty (to me, anyhow) is that ham baby food! I tasted it. It's horrible! No wonder babies spit that ish out! But the cat likes it and that's the important thing. Still, Tiki Cat tastes better than Gerber. I know these things because... well, don't ask! 

~Mackie

Lmao. My princess gets chicken flavored prenesolone every 8 hours. The stuff smells nasty. I don't think she likes it because she squirms away from me right before I give it to her....

One of my other cats is simply dieing for a taste. He keeps bringing me the dirty syringes out of the sink, drops it off on my lap, and gives me this eager look that screams "I believe it is my turn now".

Inanna said:

One of my other cats is simply dieing for a taste. He keeps bringing me the dirty syringes out of the sink, drops it off on my lap, and gives me this eager look that screams "I believe it is my turn now".

Click to expand...

 Dying laughing at that image. 

Lat night I noticed an enlarged lymph node under,behind his left foreleg, roughly axillary to just 'cranial' or anterior to the shoulder region. It's on the same side as his broken fang. He also had a very high neutrophil count the other day.

I definitely understand that neutrophilia and swollen nodes can be from inflammation, infection, steroids or neoplasia. His mouth is horribly inflamed, so there is the inflammation. He had Depo the other day as well (a week ago), so there's the steroid. In other words, neutrophilia and a swollen node can have causes other than cancer. And, they can take some time to go down once the cause is addressed and resolved.

However, my luck seldom ever seems that good. So many times I get a sick one to feeling better, only to find out that they have a terminal illness. I hope that's not the case here. I've already lost 2 cats to lymphoma. I hope I don't have a third.

I will be following up with this when I call in his update.

But-- he IS STILL EATING on his own, real Fancy Feast today instead of baby food. He likes the grilled chicken flavor with bits and some gravy-- but it's not the one marked as "Gravy Lovers". He has eaten almost a whole can and even ate (swallowed) some dry food last night. I heard him at the bowl-- he was the only cat in the bedroom so I know it was him. We were already going to sleep and the lights were off, so I didn't really see how much he ate. I am just glad that he ATE, and thrilled that he ate DRY food, the first confirmed time he's eaten them since he became ill a week ago. There may have been other times, but I sure didn't see it!

So, he's acting better, eating much better and getting ready for the dental... but now there's that node that needs to be checked out. Heck, it might even be where he got the Depo injection-- though that's not the best aim! I know it's not from the SQ fluids, as I give it in the hollow between the shoulder blades.

Paws crossed that this is only due to massive inflammation and not malignancy...