Cleopatra may have IBD(otherwise cancer).

I actually got the one that was not for meat and organ, I got the one where you sprinkle it on the meat that is boneless. I have not recieved it in the mail yet, and the past month she has been on Wellness Core Turkey and Duck. I will be serving it raw to her eventually, but I have to do cooked first, or mostly cooked.

@Ginny  She had diarrhea for the third time today. This time it did not have too much blood. Her next appoinment had not been scheduled, but I will make her one for the next open date that they have. I will ask to fully worm her, do another blood test and fecal exam. And ask for Leukerin. I am now giving her 5mg of Prednisolone a day, and I am switching her over to pork and liver with Alnutrin, until I have enough for Ezcomplete. And then do Leukerin. It was actually an alarming amount of blood to me, not the worst that she has had, but more than the past few weeks by a significant amount. However, her dosage of Prednisolone had lowered, so that may be why. But, nonetheless, her new diet has not worked. Tomorrow I am getting her pork to start transitioning her over, and I should expect the Alnutrin within the next three days.

Cleopatras Mom said:

I know! It was petrifying. I was half asleep, so I had the irrational fear that I had squeezed off her paws because the fur had felt so soft. But no, it was just a mouse that I had squeezed. it was really gross, thoug because I had blood on my hands from it's wound. So, had to wash my hands thoroughly and see the doctor a week or so later.o3o

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That is scarey.

I don't want to monopolize this thread about raw/homecooked diets, as I know your main concern is the diarrhea, bloody stools and elevated calcium. I do just have to make one last post, as I think you might have gotten confused somewhere along the way and I'm concerned your recipe plan does not seem balanced. 

Alnutrin is a premix for raw meat only. It is not appropriate for cooked meals. There are 2 types of Alnutrin and only 2 ways to utilize it:

1.) Alnutrin WITHOUT calcium - This version of Alnutrin is meat to me mixed with raw ground meat, bones and organs. If you are using this premix supplement with any cooked food that does not include meat, bones and organs (liver especially) then your diet is not balanced and not species appropriate.

2.) Alnutrin WITH calcium - This version of Alnutrin is meant to be mixed with raw ground meat and organs.   Again, if you're using this premix with cooked meat that does not include organs (especially liver) then your diet is not blanced or species appropriate.

I think the supplement that you probably meant to order is called EZComplete Fur Cats. This premix is made for raw OR homecooked meat. With this supplement, you don't need to worry about adding anything other than meat, as it contains everything else you need (calcium supplement, organs, Omega 3, etc). If you really did order the Alnutrin instead of EZComplete, you might want to return the Alnutrin and order the EZComplete instead. Or maybe you did order the EZComplete and just said Alnutrin?

That's it!   If you have any questions about raw/homecooked diets, the people over on the Raw/Homecooked forum are super knowledgeable and can help you out!

Thanks for the response. Abbey! I did order the Alnutrin for ground meat and organs, NOT the ones for bones. I am going to feed her raw food with it, but for ONLY the first day or two it will be slightly cooked.

And I am using organ meat as well, more than one, but at LEAST liver.

 You know what you're doing then!!

I really, really, REALLY hope that whatever is going on with your sweet girl resolves on the new diet. I know I've read a ton of stories where a limited ingredient homemade diet has done absolute miracles for IBD cats   

Please keep us posted on her progress

One of my cats, well, he wasn't mine but evidently he's mine NOW -- he wandered up this spring singing love songs and I got him neutered -- he had loose stool with blood in it, not massive quantities, but kind of migrating blood spots.  I finally was able to make a wormer dinner he would eat, the Nemex2 (which they usually love) plus Luvsome cat food, plus some Iams dry, all mixed up together.  The bowl is empty!  I will tell you if the blood spots disappear.  I strongly suspect hookworm, it looks just like the photos of cat poop when they have hookworm.

Cleopatras Mom said:

 
Thanks for the response! I brought her into a vet last November, and they gave her Albon, even though nothing showed up on the fecal sample(swab to her butt). I gave her it for several weeks and nothing changed. So, I brought her to a new vet, and they suggested she had an allergy to a food. They also tested her stool that we provided, and everything turned up normal. So we tried Rabbit and Peas Royal Canin. On the 12th we brought her back. They suggested we do blood work because her heart was beating at 220. The bloodwork came back after in house testing. Everything was fine except for her calcium, which was slightly elevated. They suggested that it could be cancer.BUT, they said since she was never tested before, she may always have had it. So they prescribed Prednisolone and probiotics. Several days ago I saw tapeworms in her stool, so we took care of that.

So, would anything show up on a blood test for a bacterial infection? Like white blood cells? They did not test her stools, as we could not provide a sample. But we tested her stools twice in three months. So, I have no idea.

The STRANGEST thing is, I remember she developed all of these symptoms after eating two mice.

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It would seem that the hypercalcemia started when you switched to the Royal Canin Dry Rabbit & Pea, and the earlier symptoms showed up after she ate the mice.  I had the ingredients wrong before when I compared the RC to the Wellness because I was comparing WET foods.  The dry RC Rabbit and Pea is actually Pea & Rabbit because PEAS is the first ingredient.  No wonder she was hungry on that one, meat is not even the first ingredient, and the rabbit isn't even meat, it's meal (more processed, so her two proteins are a vegetable protein and a very processed meat protein.

Ingredients

Peas, rabbit meal, coconut oil, pea protein, hydrolyzed soy protein, natural flavors, calcium sulfate, vegetable oil, sodium bisulfate, DL-methionine, monocalcium phosphate, fish oil, salt, taurine, choline chloride, monosodium phosphate, vitamins [DL-alpha tocopherol acetate (source of vitamin E), L-ascorbyl-2-polyphosphate (source of vitamin C), niacin supplement, biotin, riboflavin supplement, D-calcium pantothenate, pyridoxine hydrochloride (vitamin B6), vitamin A acetate, thiamine mononitrate (vitamin B1), folic acid, vitamin B12 supplement, vitamin D3 supplement], trace minerals [zinc proteinate, zinc oxide, ferrous sulfate, manganese proteinate, copper proteinate, copper sulfate, manganous oxide, calcium iodate, sodium selenite], rosemary extract, preserved with mixed tocopherols and citric acid.

he Wellness dry includes

Ingredients

Deboned Turkey, Turkey Meal, Peas, Potato Protein, Potatoes, Canola Oil (preserved with Mixed Tocopherols), Tomato Pomace, Duck, Pork Meal, Ground Flaxseed, Natural Turkey Flavor, Cranberries, Chicory Root Extract, Vitamins [Vitamin E Supplement, Niacin, Beta-Carotene, Vitamin A Supplement, Thiamine Mononitrate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, d-Calcium Pantothenate, Riboflavin, Vitamin D-3 Supplement, Vitamin B-12 Supplement, Folic Acid, Biotin, Ascorbic Acid (Vitamin C)], Minerals [Zinc Proteinate, Zinc Sulfate, Iron Proteinate, Ferrous Sulfate, Copper Sulfate, Copper Proteinate, Manganese Proteinate, Manganese Sulfate, Sodium Selenite, Calcium Iodate], Choline Chloride, Mixed Tocopherols added to preserve freshness, Taurine, Dried Kelp, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Dried Lactobacillus plantarum Fermentation Product, Dried Enterococcus faecium Fermentation Product, Dried Lactobacillus casei Fermentation Product, Dried Lactobacillus acidophilus Fermentation Product, Rosemary Extract, Green Tea Extract

It will be interesting to see if the calcium goes down on the Wellness over time.  It doesn't have calcium sulfate.

Thanks, Abbey! I do too! Nonetheless, whatever she has, transitioning to a home made diet may help her in the long run. I bought her some pork to transition her onto, so let's hope!

And thanks for the info, Red Top! I will contact the vet and ask for hookworm dewormer, then! The elevated calcium really scares me, though, and I have no idea...

The actual reason why I chose Welness Core was because I heard it lowered Idiopthic Hypercalcemia, and that it was grain-free, soy-free, and high in proteins. I may be transitioning her to a home-made diet, though, so the calcium may go up? To be truthful, that is what scares me the most. How do I know that won't elevate her calcium? Among being a symtom, calcium can have it's own side effects. Does anyone know for sure that Alnutrin is completely balanced in this, and that it does not contain it in excess?

Note: Cleo, I think, has not gained any weight yet. But it is hard to tell.

I also heard methionine was bad for cats, too, in the terms of calcium, which RC has as well, and Wellness dos not.

How's Cleo doing today?

Regarding the DL-methionine, it is a man-made chemical version of methionine and is used in some cat foods to support weight gain and also to acidify the urine.  Methionine in its natural form is an amino acid found in MEAT, so if your food has a lot of meat in it, adding DL-methionine is not only not necessary, it can be bad, because too much DL-methionine (which is not a natural substance) can cause anemia.  Cats eating a meat based diet of natural prey do not get too much or too little methionine -- it's what they are designed to eat.  If kittens are deficient in methionine, they do not grow.  It is one of the necessary components of meat, like taurine, that cats cannot live without. 

I think if you give her some time off the RC (which uses an unusual source of calcium, calcium sulfate, which is basically gypsum) and keep her on the Wellness core for awhile, and keep giving her a meat based diet, this may correct itself.  It also can be associated with too much vitamin D.  When food is so highly processed and natural ingredients are replaced with artificial ones, it's no wonder things get out of balance.  The closer you get her to her natural diet, the better chance she has to be healthy.

Thanks for the posts, everyone! It has been a rough few days. Cleo snuck in and buried her stool in the litter-box before I could peek at it, so I do not know if it is bloody. She has been doing well, behavior wise, and her stools are a day and a half apart again, so that is good. Weight seems to be the same, without any gain.

@Red Top Rescue  thanks for the comments! I thought it was bad for cats in dry cat food! And now I realize why it is in the RC instead of the Wellness, because Wellness has lots of meat.  Cleo has been on Wellness Core for about a month now, and although the calcium issue may resolve itself, I am worried about the blood in her stools. That happened when she was still on Iams, and then I switched her to RC, and then to Wellness about a month ago. The calcium concerns me a lot, only because of what it suggests. It is only high slightly, but with blood in her stools, the vet said it could signify cancer. That's why I want to see the blood in her stools dissapear. So, even with blood in her stools still, I should wait?

Anyway, I came down with the cold yesterday, and I had to write THREE essays in about 9 hours. It was backbreaking because I felt so sick. Plus, our car broke down and we had to have it towed. We are in so much debt, the Leukerin will have to wait unfortunately. XS And then, the card I bought Alnutrin with was the wrong one, and now I owe 50 dollars!!! 

Sorry about the cold, and about using the wrong card and now owing $50.  You had said you were going to try to get her worming medicine that will get hookworms if she has any.  The pyrantel pamoate is very gentle and should get hoookworms as well as any roundworms she might have .  Usually you do at least two wormings two weeks apart.  Larval roundworms and hookworms migrate through the host's body before completing their development in the host's intestine. Only the worms in the intestine are vulnerable to pyrantel pamoate.  Your vet probably has some.  I get the Nemex-2 version.  It's for dogs, and dosage for cats is usually twice as much as the bottle specifies for dogs (i.e. l ml. for 1 lb. in cats versus 1 ml. for 2 pounds in dogs).  I like it because it tastes good to most cats so I can mix it in the food and they will eat it all up, so I dont have to fight with trying to give it to them with a syringe.  Even if they like something, most of mine don't like syringes of anything stuck in their mouths although they tolerate it.  I get it at my local feed store in the 2 oz. bottle and pay $14.69.  Prices online can vary greatly from $12.99 to $39.99 so be sure to get the less expensive one.  You can probably get some from your vet too, although my cats do not like the vet's version!

Thanks for the response, again! I shall look into it, then!

Otherwise, today I am slightly happier! Although we found out our car needs a new timing belt so that was why we had to tow it. It seems every time you have a little money, it gets all used up and you are i debt!

So, Cleo I think still does not have normal bowel functionings because in less than 24 hours, she went to the litter box for #2, 2 times. HOWEVER, THEY ARE COMPLETELY NORMAL! Firm, without ANY TRACE of blood! It may mean nothing, but she may be feeling better! These last stools have been her BEST since November! Surpisingly, I know it is a coincidence, probably, but the only thing I have done differently is give her some pork with her Wellness Core cat food. And give her 1.25mg more of Prednisolone than she has been getting recently. EEEEEH! I am extremely skeptical, and fear that this will not be the norm. But, still!

And interestingly, the smell is minimized by a lot! I can even stand in the bathroom before it is covered! I never knew I would be so excited by this!

Just keep taking one day at a time, doing the next right thing as best you can, and celebrate the improvements every time they show up!

Update if anyone is interested- Thre really isn't any blood on her stools anymore after taking Prednisolone, however, maybe a slight dab of it, so I know it is not healed all the way. However, I know for a fact it is just the Prednisolone that is working, so that means the food may not.

I am able to bring her to the vet now, but I was wondering when I should? In several weeks from now? I want to change her food, because I am aching to know if it is the food or not. Today I will think this over and come to a solution tomorrow.

I guess my questions are~

When to bring her to the vet?

When to converse about Leukerin?

Do I give her that after switching food, or before?

Of course we are interested!  I'm glad you updated us and so glad to here she is doing better.  Hope it continues!  

Cleopatras Mom said:

And interestingly, the smell is minimized by a lot! I can even stand in the bathroom before it is covered! I never knew I would be so excited by this!

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We do get excited about silly things where our cats are concerned. Join the crowd of sillies.

Any updates? How is cleo doing?