Squamous Cell Carcinoma - any opinions on radiation treatment?

edwardthefirst · May 10, 2016

@2Cats4everLoved Hey good to hear you. I've been meaning to post but still waiting for final results.

The good news is that Eddie is great. He's perky, his coat looks good and he eats well i.e. business as usual.

However tests reveal it IS cancer, but they don't know what type yet. Whatever it is, it must be a slow growing one.

My friends dog was diagnosed with lymphoma a year ago, she tried him on chemo, he got fat and depressed, she took him off chemo tablets and a year later, he's his normal self and still with us. So....I don't know what I'm trying to say except that this is what I am focussing on. Whether or not my cat looks and seems well and at the moment, he is both.

But I will post the detailed results once I get them in case anyone here can shed any light on his specific diagnosis.

My local vet looked at the initial predictions last night from the posh vet when I took Eddie to have his stitches out and said 'I've never even heard of these' so, not sure whether thats a good or a bad thing.

I'm going to pop over to your page now and catch up with Simon....

foxxycat · May 10, 2016

Hope that your Eddie continues to do well.

Once the results come back they may want to start treatment with prednisolone=they don't use steroids until the biopsy is done as steroids can affect the test results-Depending on what KIND of cancer it is-there are several options for treatment. The good news is he is eating-has he lost weight? He doesn't appear to be loosing weight in your photos-it could be a cyst or benign tumor. The vet is correct in her estimates of it not being aggressive. I hope you get many more years.

Yes we have had some with good results from treatment for lymphoma-usually in that case its chemo and pred for treatment-then they switch around certain meds every week to get a full blast chemo at the cancer. The good news is our animals respond better to chemo than people=meaning they don't get the side effects like people.

in animals often they pretreat for conditions on the day of treatment-usually anti nausea meds and sub fluids are administered the day before and day of and day after chemo-I have said forever too bad they cant do this with people for their chemo-cats have had good results of minimal side effects by treating this way-so if anything-they keep being the awesome animals they are. I don't know the protocol for SCC chemo-but it looks promising from your notes about how well he is doing. Keep us posted.

edwardthefirst · May 11, 2016

@foxxycat thank you for your thoughtful and full response, much appreciated, and also you, mother of Simon! @2Cats4everLoved

They think (emphasis on think. They are not 100%) that its T cell lymphoma. Its a skin form of lymphoma which can stay localized just on the nose - or it could spread to other tissues. No way of knowing that without a body scan (which is definitely not happening. We are agreed on that)

Blood tests could help build a fuller picture. His last set in the new year were good but obviously updating them would be a smart next step.

As an aside, yes, his appetite is good and we are pretty much business as usual at the moment.

Just as you advised, the first step they recommended would be prednisolone.

Ideally in combo with a chemo drug but she said the steroid alone can make a difference and some cats go into remission just with that.

But ideally it would be given in conjunction with a chemo tablet. She mentioned lomustine first - then a second one which she said was 'less intense' and 'gentler' called something like noramubutel (?)

Both drugs very much dependent on whether he is a good candidate kidney wise of course, something I assume blood tests would reveal.

So, a lot to think about.

Eddie has spent a hell of a lot of his life at the vets over the years. He has hyperthyroidism which requires a lot of vet visiting and adding to his load is not appealing. His immediate quality of life is everything to me and at 15, I'm not inclined to put him through anything which causes him additional discomfort. I may go for the steroids and see what happens but there is no pressure to make an immediate decision of course.

But a lot of thinking to do...

2Cats4everLoved · May 20, 2016

Hi @Edwardthefirst- I was curious how you are all doing. I hope Edward is okay Just thinking about you. Be well.

edwardthefirst · May 20, 2016

Hey there @2Cats4everLoved funny, I was just reading *your* updates. Its so great to see the gorgeous pics of Simon and to hear about his enthusiastic eating habits! He is such a handsome boy, truly.

Eddie is doing pretty well. He' s on steroids now (prednisolone). I thought about chemotherapy long and hard but I decided against it in the end. Fortnightly blood tests, too many trips to the vet (and my local vet doesn't want the drugs on his premises so it would mean a lot of travel out to a place where they could do the treatment). Its not how I want Eddie spend the remainder of his time. He hates travel and blood tests and he's an old guy at 15 years old so it didn't seem fair to make him do that. I did not take this decision lightly but it feels like the right one.

The steroids have pepped up his appetite which is great because in the last week, he suddenly got a bit casual about eating. I began to wonder if he's got dementia as he would start eating, get distracted by the tiniest thing and then wonder off. Only to turn up 2 minutes later demanding food - but hate the thing that he just ate. I know you will totally appreciate how frustrating/stressful this can be. I always sigh a huge sigh of relief when I've got his meds and a couple of pouches of food down him. I treat it like a game now - its my duty to try and guess what he wants to eat but he has the right to change his mind at any time!

What else...the weather is warm so he spends a lot of his time sitting in the garden and looks really annoyed (at me) if it deigns to rain, like I can control the weather...but he comes in at night and stretches out across the bed, the nicest time of the day for me.

He's a gorgeous boy and I'm trying to stay focussed on the moment and asking for the wisdom to know when the time comes to help him move on - but hoping that that is a while away yet.

2Cats4everLoved · May 20, 2016

He's a gorgeous boy and I'm trying to stay focused on the moment and asking for the wisdom to know when the time comes to help him move on - but hoping that that is a while away yet.

My words and thoughts exactly....

I'm so glad he's enjoying his time, and you have a moments rest from all the "thinking" that goes into taking care of your furry wee one.

As always, best to you hand your handsome boy...

meplus5 · May 20, 2016

I feel for you and share your dilemma. My boy is suspected of having scc too but we haven't gotten a formal diagnoses either because i dont want to put him through any harsh surgeries. Im now at a point where i have to make that decision.

The problem with cancer is that it can look like many other things and the only way to know is to biopsy. With scc and the location of eddie's, he could very well have a good quality of life for several months. He will have his good and bad days, but as long as the good outweigh the bad, i would say he's doing alright.

I havent ever done radiation treatment and don't think i would. First, because the cat doesn't understand it has cancer and certainly won't understand radiation, and second, it is hard to find where i live so it is nonsensical to travel great distances at a huge cost for something that might not work, or make my cat feel sick. You will know what you should do and what you want for your boy.

I wish you and eddie all the best.

edwardthefirst · May 20, 2016

image.jpeg

edwardthefirst
May 20, 2016

2Cats4everLoved · May 20, 2016

LOL, doesn't get any sweeter than that. He's really cute. Eddie looks like he's perfectly content using mommy's leg as a pillow. I hope you had access to a good book or remote, because it doesn't look like you were going anywhere. hahah Enjoy each other..

foxxycat · May 20, 2016

my cats love the outdoors.

I understand totally about your feelings about how to know when. I have an elderly kitty who has gotten a bit skinny looking lately but she is still eating and playing. she is almost 17-18. so I just feed her the fancy feast she loves and her kibble. I figure at 17 why rock the boat?? I tried for years to get her on wet food=she now eats it but still wants kibble. she has early stage kidney disease but she is very happy to sleep on the front porch guarding the house. I figure she will let me know when she has had enough.

Its so hard to not anticipate the bad things in the future when we ourselves have experienced bad things in the past-its hard to move away from that thought process. I envy kats with their way of only living in the moment.

I think if your kitty doesn't like travel or vets then do the pred and see how it goes. the funny thing about pred it can make them grouchy for no reason. I have heard others mention how the cat sometimes acts ticked off for no reason...its the pred and usually with time it goes away.

What dose did they start Eddie on? did you have trouble pilling or did you get it suspended in a liquid or did you get treats compounded from wedgewood pharmacy?

If you wanted more information about feline cancer in general there is a wonderful group on yahoo called feline lymphoma group=I recommend this group for nursing questions pertaining to appetite issues/weight management-pilling strategies. There is many more posts on this site that answers these questions but wanted to put this out if in a week or a month you wanted to ask some questions about the chemo drugs=there is an oncologist vet who is in Atlanta Georgia who is brilliant. He has answered so many questions and can help you decipher some of the complexities of various medications for chemo if in the future that option was something you wanted to persue. I do know that diamond back and wedgewood pharmacy does mail order of chemo pills=the L one they have generic forms as that one is very expensive by brand name-I recall members discussing this issue..so just wanted to give you another piece of the puzzle if you wanted to look up more info-its all email based and you can set up to get a daily digest or whatever=on yahoo groups you can search topics as well-I find this invaluable for reading about side effects/issues with cancer/basic nursing care for our sick cats.

And for eating there is an assisted feeding group if down the road Eddie gets fussy about eating-they too have different things to recommend and ways to entice our oftentimes stubborn cats to eat.

All the best for Eddie

edwardthefirst · May 21, 2016

Ha, you are so right @2Cats4everLoved I had to shout someone to fetch my iPad. He wasn't going to let go of that leg...

donutte · May 21, 2016

Just saw this post - thinking good thoughts for you and your boy! He's absolutely gorgeous btw.

I also share that concern about knowing the right time. Had two cats with kidney disease in the last seven months that I lost, Lucky let me know in no uncertain terms! The little guy peed on me while giving me this weird stare. Sara was much more vague. All we can do is use our best judgment.

However, I hope that is something you won't have to consider for a long, long time!

white shadow · May 21, 2016

foxxycat said:
....If you wanted more information about feline cancer in general there is a wonderful group on yahoo called feline lymphoma group=I recommend this group....

And for eating there is an assisted feeding group if down the road Eddie gets fussy about eating-they too have different things to recommend and ways to entice our oftentimes stubborn cats to eat.

SUPER suggestions there !

Edwardthefirst - fyi:

Website: Assistfeed.com

edwardthefirst · May 23, 2016

meplus5 said:
I feel for you and share your dilemma. My boy is suspected of having scc too but we haven't gotten a formal diagnoses either because i dont want to put him through any harsh surgeries. Im now at a point where i have to make that decision.

The problem with cancer is that it can look like many other things and the only way to know is to biopsy. With scc and the location of eddie's, he could very well have a good quality of life for several months. He will have his good and bad days, but as long as the good outweigh the bad, i would say he's doing alright.

I havent ever done radiation treatment and don't think i would. First, because the cat doesn't understand it has cancer and certainly won't understand radiation, and second, it is hard to find where i live so it is nonsensical to travel great distances at a huge cost for something that might not work, or make my cat feel sick. You will know what you should do and what you want for your boy.

I wish you and eddie all the best.

Thank you @meplus5 ~Yes, you're right about cancer and symptoms being wide ranging. I was opposed to the biopsy at first (and it wasn't cheap either) but Im glad we did it now as the wondering and the questions were doing my head in. I do think that if you feel more informed and (slightly!) calmer, this can only benefit your pet. Thats definitely been the case with me and Eddie.

So many times in the last year (he also had his tail amputated in November) I've also realised how important it is to focus on what you see in front of you and if your pet is eating and toileting well and doesn't have pain then this is all that really matters. If treatments are going to impact all that in a big way, is it worth it? My boy is 15 so its a no brainer for me. If he were younger, perhaps it would be different but I just want him to be happy and enjoy his days for as long as he can.

Best of luck with your boy too...

edwardthefirst · May 23, 2016

White Shadow said:
SUPER suggestions there !

Edwardthefirst - fyi:

Discussion of Feline Lymphoma
    Website: Feline Lymphoma.org

Feline Assisted Feeding

                Website: Assistfeed.com

Thank you so much - very helpful!

edwardthefirst · May 23, 2016

Donutte said:
Just saw this post - thinking good thoughts for you and your boy! He's absolutely gorgeous btw.

I also share that concern about knowing the right time. Had two cats with kidney disease in the last seven months that I lost, Lucky let me know in no uncertain terms! The little guy peed on me while giving me this weird stare. Sara was much more vague. All we can do is use our best judgment.

However, I hope that is something you won't have to consider for a long, long time!

Ahhh thank you @Donutte for your Eddie related compliments. I fell in love with him the second I clapped eyes on him in the shelter 12 years ago. And yes, I hope that decision doesn't come around for a little while yet....

edwardthefirst · May 23, 2016

foxxycat said:
my cats love the outdoors.

I understand totally about your feelings about how to know when. I have an elderly kitty who has gotten a bit skinny looking lately but she is still eating and playing. she is almost 17-18. so I just feed her the fancy feast she loves and her kibble. I figure at 17 why rock the boat?? I tried for years to get her on wet food=she now eats it but still wants kibble. she has early stage kidney disease but she is very happy to sleep on the front porch guarding the house. I figure she will let me know when she has had enough.

Its so hard to not anticipate the bad things in the future when we ourselves have experienced bad things in the past-its hard to move away from that thought process. I envy kats with their way of only living in the moment.

I think if your kitty doesn't like travel or vets then do the pred and see how it goes. the funny thing about pred it can make them grouchy for no reason. I have heard others mention how the cat sometimes acts ticked off for no reason...its the pred and usually with time it goes away.

What dose did they start Eddie on? did you have trouble pilling or did you get it suspended in a liquid or did you get treats compounded from wedgewood pharmacy?

If you wanted more information about feline cancer in general there is a wonderful group on yahoo called feline lymphoma group=I recommend this group for nursing questions pertaining to appetite issues/weight management-pilling strategies. There is many more posts on this site that answers these questions but wanted to put this out if in a week or a month you wanted to ask some questions about the chemo drugs=there is an oncologist vet who is in Atlanta Georgia who is brilliant. He has answered so many questions and can help you decipher some of the complexities of various medications for chemo if in the future that option was something you wanted to persue. I do know that diamond back and wedgewood pharmacy does mail order of chemo pills=the L one they have generic forms as that one is very expensive by brand name-I recall members discussing this issue..so just wanted to give you another piece of the puzzle if you wanted to look up more info-its all email based and you can set up to get a daily digest or whatever=on yahoo groups you can search topics as well-I find this invaluable for reading about side effects/issues with cancer/basic nursing care for our sick cats.

And for eating there is an assisted feeding group if down the road Eddie gets fussy about eating-they too have different things to recommend and ways to entice our oftentimes stubborn cats to eat.

All the best for Eddie

Thank you @foxxycat this is great and really helpful. You are so right about not anticipating bad things. This has by far been one of my biggest challenges. My mum sadly passed in Sept after a dramatic illness and my remaining step father got rushed into hospital this march with heart issues (much much improved now) but its difficult to 'come down' from that if thats the right phrase and stop panicking. This last few months has been as big a lesson in mindfulness and living in the moment as I've ever had.

Thanks for the yahoo group info, very helpful. I've not been on there yet but its in my mind.

L asparaginase might be the drug you mentioned? This was one of the ones my posh vet recommended and I warmed to more than the other suggestions as you can just get one shot of it and see how it goes (its not ongoing like the other chemo drugs).

That said, my local vet doesn't stock it (and doesn't want to - it requires quite a lot of care) so it would involve a lot of travel. I'm seeing how we go on the Pred and review in a couple of weeks.

He's on 11mg a day for the first week, then down to 6mg every other day indefinitely. He's doing pretty well on it. Quieter, but its hard to make a judgement on that has he's got hyperthyroidism and anyone with a hyperthyroid cat will know how noisy and diva-like they can be if their meds aren't at the right levels - and his are perfect at the moment so it may just be that that has chilled him out a bit.

Best wishes to your front porch guarding cat!

2Cats4everLoved · Jun 5, 2016

Hello @Edwardthefirst - You and Eddie have been on my mind. I hope Edward is doing well on his med's. How is the handsome fella.

Update please. LOL

Squamous Cell Carcinoma - any opinions on radiation treatment?

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