Aging kitty question

I'm not really familiar with the aging process on cats and was wondering if any of you could give me some ease of mind about Wurp, my 12 year old.  My other two big indoor babies (not our barn cats) passed early in life, one to kidney disease and one passed in our house fire in 1994, so any and all changes in Wurp scare me to death.  Hubby has a 19 year old girl that he got in 97, but I really didn't know her in her prime so I don't have a comparison with her.

As you know from my other posts I have a 2 year old formerly feral that we are integrating into our household, on week six of site swapping with Wurp, who is a bit cantankerous and not accepting at all.  I am at the point I would like to try to let them see--but not touch--each other again and see where we are.  I am just worried that Wurp is sick or possibly at the beginning of a bad malady and I don't want to upset or stress him.

Wurp's normal routine has always been to get up with us in the morning about 5am, eat, make his rounds and look out all the windows, do all his important cat business, then sleep the remainder of the day somewhere in the house--bed, chair, couch, with the occasional break in the napping to eat more, drink, visit his litter box, then back to sleep somewhere.  He would then sit up and visit with us until bedtime, in the kitchen with me while I cooked dinner, then the living room with us for tv time, and he would go to bed and sleep on hubby's feet until morning (with his middle of the night forays for food, water, box, look out window).

Since Shortstack has been inside I know it has both stressed and intrigued Wurp, at first he slept quite a bit less, spent a lot of time staring at and popping the bedroom door where Stack is.  The past two weeks he seems to be sleeping much more.  He gets up with us in the morning, eats, and then disappears to our bedroom where he goes back to sleep on the bed.  I move his food in there, he has a litter box, etc. and we close the door and let Stack out to roam the house for the day.  We come home, socialize with Stack, and swap about 6pm.  Wurp will come out and I feed him, he eats, then maybe go see hubby for a few minutes, and go back to bed.  He will get back up about 9:30 and come see us--mainly to tell me it's bedtime--I feed him again and he goes back to bed with us.  He never spends the evening with us anymore, he just goes either to Stack's door and stares at it, or he goes to bed.  He also seems much skinnier to me...but I weighed him last night and he is the same as at his last vet visit back in September.  He just feels skinnier, lighter, less flabby, less muscle mass.  I know they lose muscle mass as they age.  But then again, I am so used to Stack who borders on being morbidly obese--he is a chunk.  And Wurp scaled two baby gates stacked six feet high like a military trainee to get to Stack just a month ago.

He is back on Zyrtec 5mg/day for his seasonal allergies.  This makes him eat more, but do any of you think it might make him sleep more?  I personally can't take the 10mg tablets because they absolutely knock me out, but they don't do that to my hubby.  I'm just medication sensitive.  Hubby and I have talked and talked about this.  We wondered if the stress of having another cat in the house (that he doesn't like) could make him be this way, or maybe lose weight.  Or--could it be something horrible?  Cancer? Lymphoma?  I made an appointment today for him at the vet, but it's next Tuesday, since they didn't consider this an "urgent" visit to be worked in.  I'll go crazy until then, or cry myself silly if I think about it too much.

Can somebody give me an objective view before I worry myself silly?  TIA.

Any news from the vet? I hope there will be some good ones to share here.

Let me begin with saying that I am no expert or anything like that.  Does Wurp get along with the 19 year old?  My vet once told me that once a cat reaches about 10,  every six months they change.  They lose muscle, arthritis begins to be more noticeable.. things like that.  We have 9 cats.  We had a 20 yr old and a 19 yr old (RIP) before we rescued 5 siblings from outside.  They old ladies adjusted okay to the new comers (that was 4 years ago).  About 2 years ago, we saved an orphaned baby.  He was 11 days old when he came into to house so he was accepted, too.  Then almost a year ago 2 more came in from outside.  They weren't feral but they were about 3-4 months old already.  The weren't accepted as easily.  One kitty, Phil..  still doesn't like them too much but he does tolerate.   When they first came in.. all of the cats, on their own stayed in another room.  I moved their food to the room they migrated too and it is still there actually...  lol   anyway, this sounds more to me like a slight depression, especially if Wurp was free to roam prior to new kitty being there.  

They do sleep more too, the older they get,.  My 20 year old weighs 5.08lbs, she was at 4.83 when she got sick.  Her heaviest was 8.  She has been at 5 for the last few years.  She recently got her hair partly shaved from matted fur and she looks like a little bony rat.  She is blind (age), arthritic (age)...her blood work is really good and she has no other signs of anything else happening.  Some days she doesn't eat as much as others.  

Diseases like cancer.... once they become noticeable to us tend to have already shown signs.. like loss of appetite, lethargy, increased or decreased thirst...  your baby.. to me anyway, sounds like he is a little depressed 

@Anne   Unfortunately no.  His appointment is this coming Tuesday.  My vet stays booked solid, but the tech I talked to said that if anything changed to call her back.  They only do work-ins on urgent issues, and apparently she didn't think this was urgent since he hasn't lost weight.  @sweetdz99   I too think he is probably a little depressed.  The room that Shortstack spends his "relaxation" time in used to be one of Wurp's favorite rooms, with his favorite cat tree/perch and window.  But it was the only room that I could really convert and let Shortstack have. 

The past couple of nights Wurp has come out of our bedroom and spent more time with us than he has over the past couple of weeks.  I had brushed Shortstack yesterday evening and had the mounds of fur in the living room floor that I had not thrown away yet, and Wurp completely ignored it.  I picked up a puff of Shortstack's fur and showed it to Wurp, but he just kind of sniffed it and went "Yeah, well, what about it?"  He has become used to his scent now.  That doesn't mean he likes him any better, but he's accustomed to his scent at least.  Next week will be week 7 of the site swapping.

@hbunny  Hopefully soon they will be able to share space with each other.  Lots of attention and love for Wurp should be good medicine!   My kitties are really good with each other.  I don't see too much of the dominance thing but there is the occasional tussle... and that is usually between 2 of the 5 that grew together.  My kiara (RIP) hated all other cats.  Mary, my 20 yr old lived with Kiara for 15 years and Kiara never ever ever liked her but they didn't fight...   

When do you plan on letting them roam freely together?

At 12 years of age he's officially a senior cat. Not very old but old enough to be considered "a grumpy old man"   He's set in his ways and any change is likely to stress him out to some degree. It would have been impossible to introduce another cat into his home without causing some amount of stress. It sounds to me like you've done all you can to make the introductions gradual and reduce the amount of stress but it would still be there. 

In stress assessment tests, psychologists usually take anything that's happened within the past six months into consideration. It sounds to me like Wurp has come to terms with his new feline roommate but he may still be bearing the affect of the stress endured. Hopefully he's ok physically and this is nothing but stress-induced behavior. Do let us know what the vet says next week.

Here's some more information about stress in cats -

 [article="30307"]Is Your Cat Stressed Out​[/article]  

 [article="30274"]Potential Stressors In Cats The Ultimate Checklist​[/article]  

 [article="30316"]Six Surefire Strategies To Reduce Stress In Cats​[/article]  

It's never a bad idea to re-assess the levels of stress in his environment and see if anything can be done to eliminate potential stressors.

@Anne   We are going very, very slow.  The first weekend of February Wurp and Stack had an incident, well, put it this way--I think Wurp decided he was going to let Stack know who was boss.  He had just been neutered, so we didn't feel it was the time for Shortstack to be addressing his position in the household until he recovered.  It was the first time they had been together without a baby gate between them, and the first time seeing each other after Stack's neutering.  Wurp (who is half the size of Shortstack) decided to be a bully and chased Stack into the fireplace (fake logs) where he peed on himself, the bricks, everything.  Wurp chased him, popped him quite a few times chasing him (with claws!), then cornered him in there.  All poor Stack did was sit in there and growl (and pee).  Wurp is indeed a grumpy old man, and very territorial.  He kept our entire property free from other cats, roaming or otherwise, all of his life until we retired him indoors.  He was neutered at one year and never lost his territorial streak--although he was a barn kitty, who was born into a colony.  After that incident, we decided to start from scratch on the introductions, beginning with no contact, then site swapping.  It's now near week 6.  Wurp still beats the crap out of the door, but I watched yesterday and it appears he is after Shortstack's toes.  There is a gap under the door and they are playing footsie--or clawsie, I should say.  That was the noise we thought was Wurp outright attacking the door.  He will yowl at the door occasionally, but the hissing has stopped.  I am about ready to let them see each other through the baby gates again, but this time use 3 stacked on top of each other instead of 2.  Old dude can still scale up those baby gates if he gets in the mood and decides to go after Shortstack.  Shortstack is a bit too hefty!  I've seen him attempt to climb the baby gates, but all he does is get about a foot off the floor and then drops down.

Shortstack is very social with other cats.  When he lived outside I watched him raise/mentor a young tomcat for months, then I found the young one a good home.

We have the elderly female of my hubby's...but she lives in the laundry room, behind one baby gate.  Wurp and Shortstack both completely ignore her.  It's like they know she just isn't quite "normal" anymore.  I've caught Wurp back there chitter-chatting to her before, but if I take her out of "her" space, he runs and hides.  She completely freaks when she is out of her small space.  Vet says "kitty Alzheimer's"...she really just has a bit of dementia.  She pees/poops where ever she is, that's why she was delegated to her own little "room" back there, and she feels much more comfortable now and some of her incessant meowing/howling stopped.  She's just an old baby that we are basically keeping happy and comfy.  She forgets to eat, we have to sit with her for her to eat, she's gotten that bad.

@sweetdz99   We think part of Wurp's "IT'S AN INTRUDER!!" response came from the fact that he has never known Shortstack post-neuter.  Wurp had ONE neutered buddy for a little while that he played well with, but my son took him when he moved out of his dorm at college into his own house.  He still has him. That's another reason we've kept them separate, to give Shortstack's smell time to adjust from the intact tom odor as his hormones drop.  Maybe it won't be as threatening to Wurp. 

I just want Wurp well before we do the stress of letting him see Stack again.  I don't want to stress out a sickly kitty if I can prevent it.  I'm just paranoid, Wurp's been my baby for so very long!

Aww that is so sad but cute too!  My Mary, the 20 year old has a bit of dementia I think.  She gets confused but I can't tell if that is because she is blind or crazy.  She loves her food.  She gets around still and she responds to my voice.  She forgets what she was doing sometimes.  She only washes her face and sometimes she will be there mid lick of the paw and the paw will just be up and she is completely still.. like she is thinking.. and then she puts it back down.  She is adorable.  

That totally  makes sense with Wurp.  I don't think Wurp is sick.. I think he is just getting older and is a little stressed out.  We just love our babies so much!

Something I forgot to add....I don't think I've actually posted on here anywhere about this part of my introduction journey---Wurp is almost completely deaf.  He started losing his hearing about four years ago.  He can hear loud noises (we think, but could just be vibration) but that's about it.  We realize it makes for an even slower pace, but he does VERY well without his hearing.  He knows my hand signals for him, and although this is crazy, we have been so close for so long that we pretty much know what the other thinks!  He can look at me and I know what he is wanting usually.  My husband thinks it is just weird, but knows it to be true.

His deafness has made it a bit hard for him to interpret Shortstack's attempts at friendship, we've seen that to be true several times.  Stack will purr and chrip at him, but he can't hear it.  He just knows that he's an intruder, who smells like trouble    It also makes Wurp a bit more cautious and "on guard" all the time.

Sweetdz99...Fuzz was like that for several years, very similar to your Mary.  But then she got REALLY confused, scared in rooms in the house she has lived all of her life in.  She would pee, poop, whatever, wherever.  We recognized one day after she got shut in the big bathroom accidentally that she didn't howl/meow wanting out.  She was just sleeping in there when we found her.  We let her out and she went back to the nonstop howling.  So, she now has over half of my laundry room as "her" space.  We have to use puppy pads because sometimes she manages the box, sometimes not.  She sometimes bites me when I go to pet her, she acts like she doesn't know me and is afraid of me, but other times she is fine.  She has done the same with hubby, who has raised her as "his baby" all her life (hurt his feelings so bad until the vet explained her dementia).  I had my poor old border collie Max (RIP at 23 years of age!) for the longest as her only indoor companion, and we used to tell people we ran a nursing home for elderly pets.  I now feel like I have a nursing home on one end of the house, and the nursery/toddler area on the other end!

Poor Wurp. It is good he is managing tho! I think Mary is a little deaf.. or she has selective hearing because when the food plate clicks or the can opens she is right there.   She pees on the pee pee pad.. and poops in the box.  She will pee in the box if I put her in it.  But she walk down the hall to poop.. then come all the way back to her area and pee on the pads lol  Whatever floats your boat Mary! Just not on the carpet lol.   I think I am in love with all of your cats now.   I was thinking about closing off a space for Mary but she is still doing okay right now.  

Oh I hope you don't get to the point of having to put her in her own space.  We miss Fuzz being out around us all the time.  We do talk to her and interact with her constantly, but it's just not the same not having her out and about.  Wurp manages just fine without his hearing.  There is no telling how long he went with partial hearing, we didn't notice it until we got to where we could walk up to him asleep.  I actually got scared several times, because he wasn't meeting me at the door when I would come home, and I would walk to the bedroom and see him lying on the bed and thought "Oh, nooooo".  I scared him and he scared me when I walked over and touched him.  But he has adapted very, very well. You wouldn't know it unless you called him, or there was a loud noise and you saw he doesn't react.  We don't know what caused him to lose his hearing.  The vet said everything looks great, but he is definitely VERY hard of hearing, almost deaf.  I really think it pisses him off more than anything.  He gets that angry face, thinking we are sneaking up on him I guess!

They may never become good friends, alas. A peaceful co-existence is probably a more realistic goal. 

Wurp's deafness is probably a contributing factor, as you suggested. Vocalizations are an important tool in feline communication and it is likely to make things more difficult. Sounds like you're doing everything right and at this point, it's probably a question of having a lot of patience.

Have you read our article about introducing cats? It's worth taking a look, just to see if there's a tip there that might still be helpful - 

 [article="32680"]How To Successfully Introduce Cats The Ultimate Guide​[/article]  

Anne, I read all the guide...I think that is the one that Margd had given me a link to when we began.  We were going to try to let them see each other this weekend for a short time period through baby gates again, but decided to hold off until Wurp's vet appointment tomorrow just in case. 

Over the weekend we did see the beating and banging on Shortstack's bedroom door firsthand--and it isn't Wurp attacking the door!  Apparently Shortstack is trying his best to play with Wurp, footsies under the door.  They can see each other (the gap under the door is about an inch) and Wurp stays right outside his door most of the time, and Shortstack sticks his paws under the door.  Sometimes Wurp will just watch, sometimes he paws at his paw, and sometimes he hisses.  Not sure what that is all about.  But they are interacting somewhat.

I did try something new this weekend, I thought it might calm Wurp down if he saw what was behind the door.  The bedroom that Shortstack stays in during his alone time contains Wurp's favorite window cat tree and window "patrol" spot, and I think part of his anger is from not being able to access one of his favorite spots.  Shortstack was snuggled up in the living room, so I went and put Wurp in Shortstack's bedroom and shut the door behind us.  He sniffed everything thoroughly (didn't pee on anything--so glad of that!) and he just climbed his perch and sat looking out the window happily.  He stayed in Shortstack's bedroom for about 2 hours Friday afternoon before I swapped him back to our bedroom.  I put Shortstack in his room, and he doesn't even care that Wurp had been in there.  But then again, he's never been the aggressor in any situation.

Update time....vet visit was fine.  Apparently Wurp doesn't weigh any less than he did 3 months ago...or 3 months before that...or 3 months before that.  He goes in every 3 months for a toenail trim and they weigh him each time, so, guess I was wrong.  The vet didn't seem concerned at all, but they did send off the thyroid test and I won't know until Thursday about that.  He said it's possible he could be hyperthyroid but if he was he would probably have a weight change.  He just said he was getting to be an old guy and that it wasn't unusual to see some changes starting, but he is in good shape overall.  So I guess I am paranoid

Still gonna wait until this weekend though to let them see each other!  We've been getting rudely awakened the past few nights with the two of them playing footsie under the door, then Wurp howling at Shortstack's door.  I have no idea what he is saying, but Stack just chirps and meows kind of a question-- meoww??? back at him, but of course Wurp can't hear him.  So we shall see what happens this weekend!