OK, getting desperate, need help before I end up shredded.

hbunny

Cat herder - Pooper Scooper
Thread starter
Super Cat
Joined
Feb 10, 2016
Messages
1,190
Purraise
210
Location
West Tennessee
I decided to start a new thread, since this is getting to be an urgent matter.  Here goes! I'll try to be short and sweet.

My newbie cat (you can find my other threads relating to my journey!) Shortstack is getting comfortable living inside.  We are still site swapping, as Wurp still doesn't accept him as a member of our household (on week six).  My issue is that I can't find a way to modify his behavior, and it's getting rapidly out of hand.   I'm getting scars from his need for attention now and love. He is absolutely the clingiest cat I have ever seen.  I am sure that it is related to him acclimating to his new environment, being needy, wanting attention.  However--I am being shredded to death over his need for love.  I have scars, scabs, and fresh scratches all over my feet and ankles, in various stages of healing. 

It begins as this--I'll give you yesterday evening as example.  This happens EVERY DAY.

I arrived home yesterday evening from work, he has had full-roam of the house all day, as Wurp sleeps in our bedroom with the door shut during the day.  He explores, looks out all the windows with perches, etc.  The windows were up yesterday so he could smell and see the outdoors, he seems to really enjoy that.  He often sleeps on a perch if the window is open.  He immediately comes running to meet me.  He proceeds to rub around me, purring loudly, I pet him on the head and go to the dining room where I put my purse down, the mail down, etc.  He grabs my foot and digs in with his claws, pulls me toward him.  I don't do sudden movements either...I am watching him carefully because I know it is going to happen and purposely try to make no sudden movements.  I slowly make my way into the dining room, with him underfoot the entire time.  I slowly go back into the kitchen, put up my dirty lunch containers, etc., and start cleaning the kitchen.  Every time I turn around to make a move to another counter, he grabs my foot or ankle, and claws deeply.  I do my best to ignore him, not make eye contact, etc.  I finally get done, go to the living room where I sit to put on socks and tennis shoes so I have some protection for my poor feet!  While on the couch, he jumps up next to me and bites me on the arm.  He isn't being mean or attacking me, he is just trying to get my attention.  He is purring, trying to stick his head under my arm, just wanting to roll around on me and in my lap.  I pick him up and carry him into the kitchen again--this is done to protect my feet and legs.  I feed him, which only distracts him from his amorous attack for a couple of minutes.  After about an hour, I am ready to put him in "his" room and let Wurp out to feed him and socialize with him for a while.  As I'm carrying Shortstack down the hall he sees where I'm headed and starts clawing and biting my arm.  He doesn't want to go to his room anymore, and puts up quite the fight.  Since I had many ouchy-bleedy spots already, I texted my husband and told him he needed to come home and put him up.  He wound around my feet until he got there, and my husband had to make 3 attempts to get him in his room before he was successful.  It has come down to having his room ready, take him to the door and chunk him in (gently of course haha!) and shut the door as fast as you can.

Here is what I have tried--

Telling him NO! firmly, but not shouting because anything loud really scares him to death

The "shaker" coke can--I took an old Coca-Cola can and put pinto beans in it.  He literally launched himself at my arm.  It infuriated him more than anything.  Got me scratched.

Clapping my hands--it works for about a second, then he just stands and looks at me for a minute, then starts the "grabby" thing again at my feet

Giving him "EXTRA" love--I've spent time sitting on the couch just holding him, petting him, he eventually just goes to sleep and when I get up he does the "grabby" thing again.

Playing with him until he's tired out--works only as long as we are engaged in play.  He usually gets tired of play quickly, and will go lay down.  I'll go sit down, and he is all over me once again.

The ONLY time he isn't either wallowing all over me when I'm sitting, grabbing my feet, or under my feet is when I go to the back of the house into his room to do something.  Or the office.  And I can't stay in those two rooms all the time. 

Help.  I'm about to go insane.  I can't sit and relax at all in my home anymore except when Wurp is out and Stack is put up!!  And I'd like to be able to go home and sit and chill a minute when I get home from work.
 

catastrophe4

TCS Member
Kitten
Joined
Mar 15, 2016
Messages
4
Purraise
1
I took in a stray about 7 weeks ago. I have 3 other cats so he is separated and in his own room half the day. When I would walk in to visit/ play with him he would jump about 3 feet to play attack my arm, he'd be all over my feet and legs with paws and teeth trying to get me to engage as if I were another cat to be wrestled with. I would give him a firm no, attempt some distance and grab a toy. When he played with the toy I would praise him like crazy, when he went back to attacking me he'd get a firm no and I'd stop playing and leave the room if necessary.

It was very gradual but he has gotten a lot better over 7 weeks but is still learning. Now to get him to chill the F out with the other cats.

Best of Luck.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #3

hbunny

Cat herder - Pooper Scooper
Thread starter
Super Cat
Joined
Feb 10, 2016
Messages
1,190
Purraise
210
Location
West Tennessee
Thanks @catastrophe4   that gives me hope.  I try the ignoring thing, but he just follows me into another room.  Yesterday evening I at least came home wearing boots, so I didn't have to worry about the "grabby thing".  He doesn't do it if I'm wearing boots for some reason.  Unfortunately, it's getting sandals weather here!

I got him to follow me yesterday evening to his room by showing him his food dish, he was apparently pretty hungry, because he followed me all the way down the hall.  He stopped 3 times, but I would hold the bowl down to his level and he would come running.  He started eating when I sat his food down in his room, and I slinked out as fast as I could.

I love him dearly, but I'm carrying the scars!
 

sprin

TCS Member
Adult Cat
Joined
Mar 15, 2016
Messages
139
Purraise
37
Have you tried cutting his nails? That way he won't be able to hurt you as much while you're teaching him not to claw you. Or even pay a groomer to do it, because at least then you'll have some time to get him accustomed to you. My new cat scratches us a lot, and cutting his nails has made it so much easier to deal with his behavior without being scared of him. How much time do you usually spend playing and petting him?  Maybe you should shut him in his room during the daytime so when you get home he doesn't have a routine of biting/scratching you? He might feel safer and more secure dealing with just a small room, instead of having to deal with being alone in the whole house that smells like your other cat. Then you can come into his room each day on your own terms. Like beat him to the punch, and come in with a toy to play with before he even has time to scratch or bite you. Then show him petting and love after he gets tired, and leave if he bites or scratches to give him time to cool off. Maybe that would eventually teach him that if he wants you to stay he has to stay calmer.
 

mservant

The Mouse servant
Veteran
Joined
Jul 8, 2013
Messages
18,064
Purraise
3,451
Location
The Mouse Pad, UK
@hbunny  Praise for being so understanding of Shortstack's behaviours.   He sounds like he is a very exciteable and loving cat and all the exitement of the bird watching through the day has him nicely primed for some pamper and play contact the second you enter his territory.  I feel your pain (I have a thoroughly adorable biter).   I share catastrophe4's hope that you will find a way to communicate with Shortstack and get him to understand that bunny-kicks and bites are not OK for humans who do't have fur.   It does take time though and I appreciate that your skin is suffering.  

I hope the rattle cat techinique has been ditched as this tends to cause more anxiety (like spray bottles) and can increase unwanted behaviours.   The calm, quiet approach with limited responses to reinforce his behaviour is the most effective in the long run.  Protection for you is probably my advice at this point as you seem to be using sensible methods to avoid over stimulating him, triggering fear - attacks or play attacks.  Finding some effective way to put enough distance between you and Shortstack for him to get the message that attack means no human presence and if he is calm you stay is what is required.  If that takes boots, gloves or similar that is what I would do:  hopefully not for a long period at any one time, but consistently so that you can ignore the behaviour you do not want and if he persists to do what catastrophe4 says and put a door between you.  It shouldn't be for more than a few seconds, maybe 30 to 60, then try to see if he has calmed but introduce some large toy that he can attack rather than you.   Repeat for each time he goes in to the bite and scratch mode - and if the least attention for him is for you to squeeze out of a door and leave him where he is then do that.  You go back in, and back out if he repeats the bite / bunny kicking.  

Mouse only occasionally decides that wrapping his jaws round my arm is a 'good' idea these days but when I first brought him home it was a several times a day exersize, and at night I literally hid under the sheets and duvet in my bed (with covers pulled over my face and even my fingers tucked in side).  He would bounce up and attack my head as well - totally fearless unlike me.  They can and do learn - honest.  I make him sound like monster but he is one of the sweetest, cuddliest cats I can imagine - he just needed to learn not to bite me...  Shortstack sounds a bit like Mouse.   I am wondering how old Shortstack is?
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #6

hbunny

Cat herder - Pooper Scooper
Thread starter
Super Cat
Joined
Feb 10, 2016
Messages
1,190
Purraise
210
Location
West Tennessee
@MServant   Thanks so much, yes he is like how you describe Mouse!  I love how you describe the "adorable biter" haha!  I completely understand.  Shortstack is about 2 years old, at my best estimate.  I think he was around 6 months when he showed up at my house, and it took me a year and a half to gain his trust and get him inside.

I have definitely thrown the rattle technique out the window.  He absolutely thinks of it as play, he literally launched his big fat booty at my arm when I was shaking the can, he wanted to play with it.  He got the wide-eyes and jumped at it!  Actually, it's in the floor of my den now, he bats it around as a toy.  He likes rattle-ey things, things that crunch when he paws them.  He is the only cat I've seen that will walk on aluminum foil and then proceed to wad it up under his feet and play with it.  If it squeaks, rattles, crunches...he goes after it.

He really is a huge (HUGE!) sweetie pie, he's just never had any contact with humans other than me and hubby and the folks at the vet who neutered him.  To make it worse, I often cannot resist picking him up and hugging him, he is just, well, "squeezeable".  So I'm sure I'm furthering the clingy behavior.  Plus, he is just really starting to play.  I had never seen him play at all until this past weekend, and he finally went for a wand toy.  Now it is so much fun to see him take interest in toys!  I think he has associated me with "play" and that may add to this "grabby" thing.

@sprin   We have managed to clip his claws, that really wasn't that hard for us.  But he has some strange toes and nails--he has short, tiny nails on fat stubby toes, and instead of his nails coming out of the center/top of his toes, they come out kind of to the side.  We did nip the points off of them though. I'm not sure I'm ready to take him to a groomer--I don't think it would go very well.  I'm trying to socialize him slowly to other humans.  He lived in the woods behind my house for a year and a half--he wouldn't even get under the shed during severe storms.  He lived in a brush thicket, he was so afraid of humans. At the vet, they had to treat him as if he was completely feral, sedate him before taking him out of the carrier, but they were very kind to him and took great care with him.  That, and our nearest groomer who does cats, is 40 miles from me.

He never bunny-kicks me though, and he loves his belly rubbed.  It's just when I try to walk away from him he reaches out lightning-fast and grabs my feet, ankles, pants-leg, whatever those toes can catch.  Even with his nails dulled he still does damage.  It's like he is saying, Hey!  Come back here, I'm not done with the petting and playing!  I've let out a few loud OWWW!'s, and that startles him and he backs off, but by then I'm bleeding.

I think my best bet is to remove myself from his presence as suggested.  It's hard, because when he is out free-roaming the house, I have two rooms to go to where I can shut the door.  I don't want to delegate him to "his" room all the time, because I've got to socialize him and let him continue to be around Wurp's scent. He will do anything to prevent going back into his room lately.  I have to lure him with food to get him back in there.  Plus, I think while he is in there all he does is lay around and sleep, although he has a huge kitty gym/cat tree.  He has gained from 12.8 pounds when he was neutered 5 weeks ago up to 16.9 pounds yesterday.  He waddles/wobbles when he walks now, so I try to keep him out and engaged in some kind of play whenever possible.

I do have a "honking" dog toy that he loves to kick and play with, and he sleeps with it like a pillow.  I've been throwing it to get him to run and exercise, he will run as fast as his little shorty legs will go and pounce on it.  I'll also try keeping it on me so I can throw it when I need to walk!
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #7

hbunny

Cat herder - Pooper Scooper
Thread starter
Super Cat
Joined
Feb 10, 2016
Messages
1,190
Purraise
210
Location
West Tennessee
Picture of Stack with his dog toy he loves to kick.  Check out those little chubby toes.

 

mservant

The Mouse servant
Veteran
Joined
Jul 8, 2013
Messages
18,064
Purraise
3,451
Location
The Mouse Pad, UK
Oooooh, he's handsome.  
    I don't think he has paws, he has fingers and toes like Mouse does - long and able to be used to grip with even without claws in action.  If i didn't know better I'd swear Mouse has thumbs sometimes the way he holds and manipulates things in his paws...  
 Stack's dog toy looks much like the Kong toy I used to use as an arm decoy with Mouse.  It's about the right size and worked well when I could distract him in time.  

I hadn't realized how much work you had already put in to getting Shortstack in to your home, and hearing how you have brought him in and introduced him to socializing with you I think you are doing great.  
    He is only 2, and at 2 Mouse was 24 / 7 energy and hardly ever slept.  He'd snooze a bit, roll over for his belly to be rubbed and it worked like coiling up a spring - he'd almost explode with energy once he was fully awake and got his fill of stroking.  If I didn't run about playing chase games, hands on with Kong between us play, and throwing toy mice and birds about the place for him to chase and fetch I would be pestered endlessly.  Thankfully having had him from about 5 months he learned that biting hurt me by the time he was around 9 or 10 months  - but when he gets over excited it is still hard not to get caught out sometimes.  

Perhaps for opposite reasons Mouse doesn't have an understanding of differences between him as a cat and me / other humans.  He only ever met his fur mom as a cat and his other encounters have all been human.  When I brought him in to my home he played with me very much as I had watched him play with his mom - including how he jumped at her head.  It worked both ways though - he would (and still does) submit in play if I roll him on to his back and gently hold him there or lean over him with my body.  Funny guy.  It's what his mom did to him when she had had enough of his pestering and playing about - she was a typical Russian Blue and not vocal so no hissing, spitting or other vocalizations in their play.  He did quickly learn what my 'ouch' meant though.   Can't say the same for 'no'.   He just looks at me with a glint in his eye when I say no, and then repeats what ever he was doing.  Typical cat. 


One thing I think is very much in your favour is that Shortstack sounds very 'people / contact' motivated.  There is a good chance that if you keep up a consistent calm withdrawl for short periods when he bites or hurts you and then go back and start again he will be keen to learn what it is  he needs to do to keep you playing or petting with him.  Whether it is play with his toy dog between you and stop play if he bites and then withdraw, go back and repeat each time you have to say 'ouch', or that it gets to the point one or other of you needs to be behind a door briefly for him to calm down, he should get the message.   Stay consistent though - say the same word -like ouch - that you don't use at other times so it doesn't confuse him, and don't continue to move and reward with contact when he bites.

Shortstack sounds bright and he sounds motivated so fingers crossed you start to have fewer injuries really soon.  I feel for that toy dog though. 
 
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #9

hbunny

Cat herder - Pooper Scooper
Thread starter
Super Cat
Joined
Feb 10, 2016
Messages
1,190
Purraise
210
Location
West Tennessee
Awww thanks @MServant!  He is such a sweet baby.  I just wish my older guy would accept him, it would be great interaction for him--for both, really.  But that may be on down the line a few months.  Wurp is very territorial, old, and grumpy.  Stack adapts fast....really fast.  He had never seen a litterbox until we got him neutered and brought inside.  He looked at me like "A porta-potty?  Really?  You expect me to go in THERE?" haha  But, we never had even one accident.  And he hasn't sprayed, we checked everywhere with a black light.  He's a smart little boy!

I really think he sees us as big hairless cats.  Like I said, he never had any human touch or closeness until us, and not much since, other than us and our house-guests.  He hides under the dining room table or in the fireplace behind the fake logs when we have visitors.  He may just be trying to interact with me the way he would with another cat, using a claw here and there. 

He loves that little orange doggie, he kicks it and chews his ears.  He loves it better than all the rest of our basket of cat toys, even better than the wand toys.  But he doesn't care for catnip--not at all.  I wish he did. 

And yes, he does have fingers!  They are short chunky little toes, but he uses them constantly grabbing things, he's pretty adept with them!  He picks up single treats off the floor with those toesies!

I love the name Mouse....we had a blue Persian we lost in a house fire in 1994 named Mousie.  He was an awesome kitty. His name was actually Mousiekins!
 

mservant

The Mouse servant
Veteran
Joined
Jul 8, 2013
Messages
18,064
Purraise
3,451
Location
The Mouse Pad, UK
@hbunny   I can't believe how similar some of Shortstack and Mouse's behaviours are.   That picking up treats off the floor with their little toes.  
    It is s o cute to watch.   It does sound like they both see us as big hairless cats, for totally different reasons.  In some ways I found that once I understood that about Mouse it helped me to think about why he did the things he did, and then figure out how to start to alter his behaviour.  From what you are saying I have a good feeling that you are working through that with Shortstack and should see him start to change the biting behaviours soon.    When Mouse is in his own territory he is Mr Confident and not phased by anything and sociable with almost everyone he's met, but take him outside in to the common areas of the apartment block and he is a quivering mass of fur wanting to clamber back in to his lair as fast as possible.  Oh, and if I've been out he has this thing about likeing me to kneel on the floor or bed and he flattens himself out underneath me and waits for his belly to get rubbed.  
   When he's anxious, like if he's been on his own longer than usual, he will stay there for ages.  Better than him wrapping himself round my leg and biting i guess.....

The integration with other cats in the home can be a very lengthy process from what I have read of other members' experience here, but they will find a level of sharing your home that they are both comfortable with at some point.  Hopefully that will mean being in the same space at the same time, but if it isn't then as long as all can relax in their own areas things have gone well.  Once Shortstack has figured out how he relates to you and can or can't play with you perhaps he will start to feel more confident about being around your older cat too.  It can't be easy for him moving in to an older cat's territory so he is doing pretty well to have come this far.
 

kitcatmeow

TCS Member
Adult Cat
Joined
Nov 22, 2014
Messages
141
Purraise
7
@MServant
  Thanks so much, yes he is like how you describe Mouse!  I love how you describe the "adorable biter" haha!  I completely understand.  Shortstack is about 2 years old, at my best estimate.  I think he was around 6 months when he showed up at my house, and it took me a year and a half to gain his trust and get him inside.

I have definitely thrown the rattle technique out the window.  He absolutely thinks of it as play, he literally launched his big fat booty at my arm when I was shaking the can, he wanted to play with it.  He got the wide-eyes and jumped at it!  Actually, it's in the floor of my den now, he bats it around as a toy.  He likes rattle-ey things, things that crunch when he paws them.  He is the only cat I've seen that will walk on aluminum foil and then proceed to wad it up under his feet and play with it.  If it squeaks, rattles, crunches...he goes after it
I have a cat that loves foil! We actually had an emergency vet visit once because he was holding his front foot up and was acting like he was in a lot of pain. I though he broke or sprained something. The vet ended up finding a cut on his paw. I'm pretty sure it was because he was digging so bad at the carpet in my daughters doorway that he made a huge hole. I taped foil over the hole to deter him from scratching there, but he liked the foil, and I think that's what cut him. Thanks for giving me an idea though I may buy some small dog toys for my cats since the small things always get lost under appliances.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #12

hbunny

Cat herder - Pooper Scooper
Thread starter
Super Cat
Joined
Feb 10, 2016
Messages
1,190
Purraise
210
Location
West Tennessee
 I may buy some small dog toys for my cats since the small things always get lost under appliances.
The one that Stack has, the little orange dog "doggy" toy is good for him because he likes to bite and pull and chew his toys.  He was ripping apart some of the toy mice and other cat toys, pulling the "eyes" off the toy mice and yarn out of them,  so I had to find some kind of toy that didn't have strings or yarn he could pull off and swallow.  The small dog toy was perfect.  I'm going to Petco today to see if I can find him some other "safe" toys with no dangling things he can swallow.  I swear it's like having a toddler in the house.  But, at least he is a very good little boy, he doesn't tear anything up other than the toys.  It could be my furniture (or my legs!) he bunny kicks.  All he does to my feet and legs is the "swat and grab" as I try to walk away.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #14

hbunny

Cat herder - Pooper Scooper
Thread starter
Super Cat
Joined
Feb 10, 2016
Messages
1,190
Purraise
210
Location
West Tennessee

mservant

The Mouse servant
Veteran
Joined
Jul 8, 2013
Messages
18,064
Purraise
3,451
Location
The Mouse Pad, UK
What a huggable (slim version) Garfield look-a-like he is, esp in that top photo.   
   It is great to hear your wounds are having a chance to heal and that he has taken to carrying that new dog toy around.  Sounds like Shortstack has a paternal streek there.  
  Either that or he thinks you're going to steal his new favourite toy.   He looks pretty big and the dog toy a good size for him getting a good hold of, it does seem to make a difference having bigger toys about for cats to really get torn in to when they're in the mood for a bit of wrestling.  Maybe it is a sign Shortstack is feeling a bit more relaxed for some reason too, not swatting.  Room swapping progress or simply having had more time with you.  Fingers crossed it continues what ever the reason.  He is very lucky to live with such understanding and patient humans who have spent time getting to know him, and seen through the aparent aggression of those claw swats.  

Keep us updated on how he's doing, and if he remains as clingy or if he starts to relax a little in other ways too.   I'd hate not to hear more about Shortstack and his antics.  
 

kitcatmeow

TCS Member
Adult Cat
Joined
Nov 22, 2014
Messages
141
Purraise
7
Oh man he must be related to my cat, my Ollie will carry toys around in his mouth too. She. We first got him we got this long mouse toy (looked like a smaller version if she you have in your pic and made for cats not dogs). I kept finding it on the couch, and would tell the kids to stop putting the cats you on the couch because I didn't want them playing and clawing the couch on accident, they of course said it wasn't them. Well wouldn't you know I finally saw him walking around with it in his mouth. He had a big crinkle ball he would carry too but it came up missing. Yesterday he was walking around with his new mouse....which then got left in the living room and the dog got it when I left and left the husband in charge!
 

foxxycat

TCS Member
Top Cat
Joined
Jan 31, 2014
Messages
8,089
Purraise
13,358
Location
Honeybee on my lap, music playing in background
Aww what a sweetheart!! I think things will calm down if there is more horseplay type play sessions to wear him out. What a cutie pie! I have a young cat who gets overstimulated and BITES when she has had enough...then she licks my hand..These cats are so crazy! My kitty also carries her toy mice around the house. I find them under the bed, over in the livingroom etc etc.  
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #18

hbunny

Cat herder - Pooper Scooper
Thread starter
Super Cat
Joined
Feb 10, 2016
Messages
1,190
Purraise
210
Location
West Tennessee
I swear it's like having a toddler.  He is on my legs everywhere I go.  Hubby is home today and he is doing it to him, over which I am getting great amusement


He is just a big, purring, grunting ball of happy. 

He's only gotten grabby with my feet twice this entire week!  WOOHOO!
 

mservant

The Mouse servant
Veteran
Joined
Jul 8, 2013
Messages
18,064
Purraise
3,451
Location
The Mouse Pad, UK
I think it's time for one of these:   
   (for the only twice this week, NOT the being on your husbands ankles all day today 
  ).
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #20

hbunny

Cat herder - Pooper Scooper
Thread starter
Super Cat
Joined
Feb 10, 2016
Messages
1,190
Purraise
210
Location
West Tennessee
@MServant   Guess what?  No more grabby-paws!  Not since I posted all this!  He's a complete gentleman now.  We've taught him to play and I think it relieved part of his clinginess--maybe he was continually looking to me for entertainment.   I just put an update out though on my other thread about Shortstack and Wurp's latest interaction---would you read and let me know your thoughts please??
 
Top