Cat BUN level high so switching food

BonitaBaby

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Hi, my cat baby is probably around 10 years old. Her test in late Dec. came back with a BUN label of 38. Vet said to switch her to lower protein. She's very picky so it's very hard to find wet food she'll eat a little of. When I do, even if I try rotating the few flavors she'll eat, she'll stop and never touch those wet foods again, even months later.

I was feeding her Orijen & Acana dry kibble when she wouldn't touch any wet foods, but they are both high protein, so now I'm looking for a lower protein, grain-free, good kibble for my cat. I tried a free trial bag of Petcurean Now Fresh kitten kibble and now the adult kibble after I found a store with the adult one. My cat loves this kibble (for now). I don't love all the ingredients, but it's supposed to be 33% protein and 31% carbohydrates. The kibble size is small like kitten kibble which she loves. Also, I'm able to trick her into eating a little wet now by mixing the small, round kibble in with some wet food. This never worked with normal adult cat size kibble. She would stick her paw in and fling the kibble out of the bowl with her paw and refuse to eat the rest. My cat is one of those picky eaters who would rather starve than eat food she doesn't like. I understand because I'm the exact same way. I will literally eat nothing if there's nothing I like even though I like eating, so I understand my picky eater baby.

My question is what do you think of Petcurean Now Fresh for the lower protein? I can only try the Petcurean Go Daily Defense because the Fit and Free is high protein. Is there a better low-ish protein dry kibble for my cat with small-sized kibble?
 
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missmimz

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Hi, my cat baby is probably around 10 years old. Her test in late Dec. came back with a BUN label of 38. Vet said to switch her to lower protein. She's very picky so it's very hard to find wet food she'll eat a little of. When I do, even if I try rotating the few flavors she'll eat, she'll stop and never touch those wet foods again, even months later.

I was feeding her Orijen & Acana dry kibble when she wouldn't touch any wet foods, but they are both high protein, so now I'm looking for a lower protein, grain-free, good kibble for my cat. I tried a free trial bag of Petcurean Now Fresh kitten kibble and now the adult kibble after I found a store with the adult one. My cat loves this kibble (for now). I don't love all the ingredients, but it's supposed to be 33% protein and 31% carbohydrates. The kibble size is small like kitten kibble which she loves. Also, I'm able to trick her into eating a little wet now by mixing the small, round kibble in with some wet food. This never worked with normal adult cat size kibble. She would stick her paw in and fling the kibble out of the bowl with her paw and refuse to eat the rest. My cat is one of those picky eaters who would rather starve than eat food she doesn't like. I understand because I'm the exact same way. I will literally eat nothing if there's nothing I like even though I like eating, so I understand my picky eater baby.

My question is what do you think of Petcurean Now Fresh for the lower protein? I can only try the Petcurean Go Daily Defense because the Fit and Free is high protein. Is there a better low-ish protein dry kibble for my cat with small-sized kibble?
I'm confused, why low protein? There's absolutely no reason a cat should ever be eating a "low protein" diet. Cats are obligate carnivores, they need protein and a lot of it. I think you need to try and get your cats off kibble as much as possible, as kidney health and proper hydration should be your major concern. I think Orijen is good kibble, but I would cut as much of it off as possible. Your cat needs wet or raw food as their primary diet ASAP. 

Here's some info about how "low protein" is an outdated concept. And here's some info about transitioning your cat to wet food. I transitioned my cat at 12 to mostly raw with kibble as a snack. He never came around to eating wet food, but he likes raw. 
 
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BonitaBaby

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M missmimz When cat BUN levels are high, apparently you want to switch them to lower protein so they do not have kidney disease. From http://www.felinecrf.org/diagnosis_blood_chemistry.htm: "If BUN or urea levels are high yet creatinine is normal or only a little elevated, it usually means that the cat is dehydrated, has gastro-intestinal bleeding, or is eating a high protein  diet." I googled the information and found several sources that back up what my vetenarian said to do which was switch to a lower protein. If your cat is healthy, then yes, you want a high protein diet, but as I said, in the last blood test, my cat's BUN level was 38. Everything else was normal. Lowering her protein makes sense for now.

I specifically mentioned what a picky eater she is. When I can get her to eat wet food, I give it to her, but she stops eating after a few weeks. I've tried all kinds of things, Fortiflora on top, crushed treats on top, crushed Vet's Best tablets on top, various wet food, raw food. My cat is a very picky eater and would rather starve as I mentioned. Since I don't want her developing fatty liver, I end up having to feed her dry kibble until I can get her to eat wet food again. Fortunately, she likes the Petcurean dry kibble and the small size let's me mix it with wet food so she's eating some wet food again.
 
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missmimz

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@missmimz When cat BUN levels are high, apparently you want to switch them to lower protein so they do not have kidney disease. From http://www.felinecrf.org/diagnosis_blood_chemistry.htm: "If BUN or urea levels are high yet creatinine is normal or only a little elevated, it usually means that the cat is dehydrated, has gastro-intestinal bleeding, or is eating a high protein  diet." I googled the information and found several sources that back up what my vetenarian said to do which was switch to a lower protein. If your cat is healthy, then yes, you want a high protein diet, but as I said, in the last blood test, my cat's BUN level was 38. Everything else was normal. Lowering her protein makes sense for now.

I specifically mentioned what a picky eater she is. When I can get her to eat wet food, I give it to her, but she stops eating after a few weeks. I've tried all kinds of things, Fortiflora on top, crushed treats on top, crushed Vet's Best tablets on top, various wet food, raw food. My cat is a very picky eater and would rather starve as I mentioned. Since I don't want her developing fatty liver, I end up having to feed her dry kibble until I can get her to eat wet food again. Fortunately, she likes the Petcurean dry kibble and the small size let's me mix it with wet food so she's eating some wet food again.
It's outdated information. Cats, regardless of medical issues, should never be on a low protein diet, especially not a low protein dry food, which in exchange for "low protein" has higher carbs, which are useless for cats. Yes, you have a picky cat, as do I. But it is in the best interest of your cat to get her to eat wet food. You will have to work hard at it, but it's entirely possible to get her off that kibble, which is what you should do. 

Again, here's more info.

"Recognising that raw meat diets are not high in protein is important. They are appropriate protein levels for an obligate carnivore. No studies have conclusively demonstrated that severe restriction of protein alone will prevent worsening of renal failure. All of the studies have restricted the protein and lowered the phosphorous levels and restricted salt.² It is now thought that lowering of the serum phosphate concentration is much more important in management of renal failure in cats, due to their nature as obligate carnivores and their high requirement for protein."
Read more at http://feline-nutrition.org/answers/answers-kidney-disease-phosphorus-and-raw-diets 
Follow us on Twitter: @FelineNutrition

http://www.littlebigcat.com/health/kidney-disease-in-older-cats/

"You may have heard that restricting protein is recommended for cats in kidney failure. Although this has been the “standard” treatment for decades, as far as cats are concerned, it has always been–and remains–very controversial. High protein/high phosphorus diets will not cause kidney disease in a normal cat, and restricted protein does not prevent kidney failure in a healthy cat. Some experts suggest that protein has no effect on the ultimate progression of renal disease. Research also shows that even very high protein diets do not make renal failure worse in cats (although high protein does worsen the disease in dogs and humans)."

Also - http://www.catinfo.org/#Kidney_Failure

"However, please understand that there are no studies showing that restricting protein to this level will prevent further deterioration of kidney function."
 
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missmimz

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I just want to add that if you haven't you should talk to your vet about running other tests to see if this is actually early stage kidney disease or not. Was there are urinalysis done? I realize after re-reading your post only the BUN is high, but that can still suggest she's going into kidney failure.

IMO the answer to this is not what is the best low protein dry food, it's how to get her on more wet food so she's hydrated and then look at foods that have a low phos.

Good luck. 
 
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BonitaBaby

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M missmimz Thanks for your advice about wet food, but I have clearly tried it repeatedly. You may have a picky cat but apparently my cat is much pickier. I have tried hard to switch her completely to wet food multiple times, especially because of this forum. It works sometimes until she grows tired of her wet food, refuses other new wet food and then I have to give her kibble for a while. I've tried different wet foods AND toppers on top of the wet food. I've ordered Fortiflora that used to entice her, but no longer works now. I tried raw food, raw food as toppers, crushed treats on top. Both don't work. Crushed Vet's Best tablets used to work, but no longer.

This time, nothing was working, so I'm very happy that mixing the small-sized Petcurean kibble with wet food is getting her to eat some wet again. It's very frustrating that others can't understand how picky some cats are. To make it worse, my cat gets tired of her wet food rotation after a while and just refuses to eat. To compound the wet food matter, once she starts rejecting a wet food, she'll completely reject it even if I wait months before reintroducing it which keeps narrowing her wet food options.

I'm glad my cat ended up with me. I am not only picky, but I also get tired of foods after a while and stop eating them even if I'm not eating them all the time. Most people aren't like me and my cat is not like most cats. To top it off, my cat doesn't like the wet or dry foods with fish as the main ingredient, which narrows down the feeding possibilities even further. It's weirdly just like me because I don't like seafood.

Supposedly cats love Fancy Feast wet food, for example, but I could only get my cat to eat 2 flavors before she refused to eat them. I've tried good, expensive wet food, cheap expensive wet food, raw food, the fresh, expensive refrigerated cat food, which completely went into the garbage. When my cat won't eat any wet foods and I keep opening cans to just dump all of it in the garbage, then I pull out the kibble and she gets kibble again. I've figured out that after I give my cat (and myself) a break, I can start trying wet foods again, but wet/dry cycles work best for my cat.

The other day, I bought Wellness Core wet food to try again and she tasted it (which was huge), but then rejected it until I mixed in the small-sized Petcurean kibble and she had to eat the wet to get to the kibble. That I could even get her to eat a wet & dry mixture is such a huge breakthrough because it's never worked. I'm currently trying to establish a new wet food rotation, but it's only working because of the small-sized kibble mix.

I don't want to keep explaining how picky my cat is and why I sometimes have to feed her kibble. I'm trying to find out if there is a good lower protein kibble than Orijen kibble, which is very high protein. I'd prefer to give my cat only Orijen or Acana when she is in a kibble only phase, but I'm going to try my vet's advice.

"High protein/high phosphorus diets will not cause kidney disease in a normal cat, and restricted protein does not prevent kidney failure in a healthy cat." That's in healthy cats only. A urinalysis was done and the only thing wrong was the BUN level, which was borderline 6 months earlier. My cat had been eating wet food at the time of the test. I'm in the preventative phase now where I'm using the bloodwork to tailor my cat's diet.

My cat became seriously ill last year and was hospitalized with 2 bad emergency hospitals who ripped me off to $3,300. It was probably pancreatitis, but I'll follow my vet's advice and switch to a lower protein kibble, mixing it with wet food and then get my cat retested to see if the BUN level goes down to normal. My cat might have gotten some kidney damage when she was ill. I don't know. Maybe her kidney can't handle the high protein diet. I'll switch to lower protein dry kibble in case based on her bloodwork. The 33% protein level in Petcurean should be decent.

I believe in the top down feeding approach. Try to feed your cat the best diet, but if your cat refuses or gets sick, then move down to the next best diet, so that's what I'm doing.
 
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donutte

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What were your cats other blood values like? And was your vet's advice based solely one one blood test? What about urinalysis? You can't really "prevent" kidney disease - if she truly has high kidney levels repeatedly over a series of multiple tests, she already has it, and it's not something you can make go away. Did your vet check for dehydration? That cause cause the BUN to be high yet have a normal creatinine (usually both are elevated with kidney disease).

Phosphorus is more the culprit with kidney disease (if it really is kidney disease), so I'd focus more on that. And if your cat is picky, then he may need a phosphorus binder. But, if his phosphorus is normal, then he likely does not.

I'm sure everyone here understands a picky cat. But you were asking in your original post about low-protein foods, which most folks will say is a bad idea. I think the only time it's truly recommended is if a cat is in end-stage renal failure, but that point you are usually in a "feed them whatever they'll eat" point.

However, my point is that you need more than one set of tests to diagnose kidney disease. Does your vet want to have follow-up blood work done?

ETA: Just saw you said you would be having more blood work done to have it checked. You might want to have a discussion with your vet, and ask why low protein? Yes, I asked my vet that question, and he admitted it is definitely something that is debatable amongst vets these days. I give my CKD girl some kidney food, which is low-protein, but it's not her entire diet. She likes variety too much.
 
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missmimz

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@missmimz Thanks for your advice about wet food, but I have clearly tried it repeatedly. You may have a picky cat but apparently my cat is much pickier. I have tried hard to switch her completely to wet food multiple times, especially because of this forum. It works sometimes until she grows tired of her wet food, refuses other new wet food and then I have to give her kibble for a while. I've tried different wet foods AND toppers on top of the wet food. I've ordered Fortiflora that used to entice her, but no longer works now. I tried raw food, raw food as toppers, crushed treats on top. Both don't work. Crushed Vet's Best tablets used to work, but no longer.

This time, nothing was working, so I'm very happy that mixing the small-sized Petcurean kibble with wet food is getting her to eat some wet again. It's very frustrating that others can't understand how picky some cats are. To make it worse, my cat gets tired of her wet food rotation after a while and just refuses to eat. To compound the wet food matter, once she starts rejecting a wet food, she'll completely reject it even if I wait months before reintroducing it which keeps narrowing her wet food options.

I'm glad my cat ended up with me. I am not only picky, but I also get tired of foods after a while and stop eating them even if I'm not eating them all the time. Most people aren't like me and my cat is not like most cats. To top it off, my cat doesn't like the wet or dry foods with fish as the main ingredient, which narrows down the feeding possibilities even further. It's weirdly just like me because I don't like seafood.

Supposedly cats love Fancy Feast wet food, for example, but I could only get my cat to eat 2 flavors before she refused to eat them. I've tried good, expensive wet food, cheap expensive wet food, raw food, the fresh, expensive refrigerated cat food, which completely went into the garbage. When my cat won't eat any wet foods and I keep opening cans to just dump all of it in the garbage, then I pull out the kibble and she gets kibble again. I've figured out that after I give my cat (and myself) a break, I can start trying wet foods again, but wet/dry cycles work best for my cat.

The other day, I bought Wellness Core wet food to try again and she tasted it (which was huge), but then rejected it until I mixed in the small-sized Petcurean kibble and she had to eat the wet to get to the kibble. That I could even get her to eat a wet & dry mixture is such a huge breakthrough because it's never worked. I'm currently trying to establish a new wet food rotation, but it's only working because of the small-sized kibble mix.

I don't want to keep explaining how picky my cat is and why I sometimes have to feed her kibble. I'm trying to find out if there is a good lower protein kibble than Orijen kibble, which is very high protein. I'd prefer to give my cat only Orijen or Acana when she is in a kibble only phase, but I'm going to try my vet's advice.

"High protein/high phosphorus diets will not cause kidney disease in a normal cat, and restricted protein does not prevent kidney failure in a healthy cat." That's in healthy cats only. A urinalysis was done and the only thing wrong was the BUN level, which was borderline 6 months earlier. My cat had been eating wet food at the time of the test. I'm in the preventative phase now where I'm using the bloodwork to tailor my cat's diet.

My cat became seriously ill last year and was hospitalized with 2 bad emergency hospitals who ripped me off to $3,300. It was probably pancreatitis, but I'll follow my vet's advice and switch to a lower protein kibble, mixing it with wet food and then get my cat retested to see if the BUN level goes down to normal. My cat might have gotten some kidney damage when she was ill. I don't know. Maybe her kidney can't handle the high protein diet. I'll switch to lower protein dry kibble in case based on her bloodwork. The 33% protein level in Petcurean should be decent.

I believe in the top down feeding approach. Try to feed your cat the best diet, but if your cat refuses or gets sick, then move down to the next best diet, so that's what I'm doing.
The reality is most vets know very little about cat nutrition and lack the knowledge to actually advise you about a bio appropriate diet for your cat. The fact your cat eats wet food means your cat is actually, in fact, not that picky, she's a normal cat that gets finicky. The reality is the more you offer kibble the less your cat will want to eat wet food.

I wouldn't feed Petcurean. The third ingredient is rice, which cats don't need at all, and the food just gets worse from there. 
 
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BonitaBaby

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I have stated that I feed my cat dry kibble as a last resort and that I believe in all wet food diets because of this forum and that I try repeatedly to get my cat on all wet.

1) She is extremely picky and has literally rejected >90% of the wet foods I've bought for her, expensive or cheap.

2) I have to repeat this part also due to your comment above: When I can finally find wet foods she will eat, it's usually 2-3 (really 2.5) flavors that I rotate and then she gets tired of them and refuses them even months later so then those no longer become options even though I do still wait and try again, hoping she'll eat them again weeks or months later. So far, nope. I will keep trying and hoping.

3) I'm almost literally very near the end of wet cat food options that are decent. I've looked for wet cat food at Petsmart, Petco, Target, small boutique pet stores. Again, anything fish/seafood only or with too much fish is out of the running. Beef probably also because it makes her throw up. She does not like those gravy wet foods, chunky pates, anything soupy. She doesn't like any "fancy" wet food with great sounding ingredients that costs a lot. The only 2 types she'll eat are a limited selection of pates and some minced. VERY limited. She likes turkey, but not chicken anymore if it's the main ingredient. Duck is mostly miss. She's not interested in rabbit or wild game foods and would only eat them in the dry as Orijen Regional Red.

If you've never had to try things like Fortiflora, crushed Vet's Best tablets, etc. on top of wet food to try to get your cat to keep eating wet, then you don't even know. It really sucks when they work at first, but then stop working. If your cat refuses most wet food and then later refuses even the wet food they were okay eating (even months later), then you really don't know. When my cat starts a wet food strike and new wet foods don't work, I get tired of tossing out the uneaten wet food in her bowl and watching her start to get lanky, so dry kibble it is again. I am extremely picky like her so I understand her eating habits.

Thankfully, I know from a few other posters who have extremely picky cats where they try for all wet but have to end up feeding some dry or all dry that I am not alone. Yours may be picky, but a small minority of us have EXTREMELY picky cats and most of you don't understand what we're dealing with even though we try to explain. IT IS IMPORTANT TO EXPLAIN THAT OUR CATS ARE EXTREMELY PICKY AND THAT'S WHY WE END UP FEEDING DRY KIBBLE despite our best intentions and attempts.

I've figured out my cat will go through cycles of eating wet food for a while (a couple months), then refusing wet so I give her kibble for a while, then I try again until she stops eating wet food, then it's dry again until I can get her to eat all wet again. Currently, wet combined with dry is working only because of the size of the small Petcurean kibble, so she's eating both wet and dry now and drinking some water. What is your problem with what I am doing? It's better than all dry and I am repeatedly trying to get my cat to eat wet food again as I already stated.

The point of my thread is to ask if there are other, better dry kibble with less than 35% protein and not too high carb levels? I already mentioned that I do not like the Petcurean ingredient list, so hence this thread I created.

I trust my vet because she saw my cat when she was seriously ill and evaluated all the bloodwork, urine test, compared it to past bloodwork, asked me what my cat was eating, etcetera. She said to lower the protein but I'm not looking for a "low protein" kibble. I'm looking for a good grain-free kibble that is lower than Orijen's kibble so I can keep mixing kibble with wet food for now to get my cat to eat some wet food. Ideally, I need small-sized kibble so if anyone knows of any, please let me know.

EDIT: Also, my vet ONLY recommended lower protein because of the elevated BUN level.
 
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missmimz

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Not many people here feed kibble, or recommend kibble, and I doubt you'll find anyone that will agree that a lower protein kibble is the right approach in your situation. I'm sorry you don't like my reply or my suggestions, but you're free to ignore it. Good luck.
 
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donutte

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The point of my thread is to ask if there are other, better dry kibble with less than 35% protein and not too high carb levels? I already mentioned that I do not like the Petcurean ingredient list, so hence this thread I created.

I trust my vet because she saw my cat when she was seriously ill and evaluated all the bloodwork, urine test, compared it to past bloodwork, asked me what my cat was eating, etcetera. She said to lower the protein but I'm not looking for a "low protein" kibble. I'm looking for a good grain-free kibble that is lower than Orijen's kibble so I can keep mixing kibble with wet food for now to get my cat to eat some wet food. Ideally, I need small-sized kibble so if anyone knows of any, please let me know.

EDIT: Also, my vet ONLY recommended lower protein because of the elevated BUN level.
My opinions aside, I think finding low carb AND low protein is next to impossible. Low protein is almost always higher in carbs. It has to be made of something, right? I still don't understand why your vet would say low protein because of one value. I have a kidney cat with early-stage CKD, and while he would prefer she be on the kidney food, my main focus (and my vet agrees) is that I feed her something she will eat. Special food doesn't help a lick if they don't eat it.

Question for you - did they check SDMA on the blood work? If so, was it normal or high?
 
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My opinions aside, I think finding low carb AND low protein is next to impossible. Low protein is almost always higher in carbs. It has to be made of something, right? I still don't understand why your vet would say low protein because of one value. I have a kidney cat with early-stage CKD, and while he would prefer she be on the kidney food, my main focus (and my vet agrees) is that I feed her something she will eat. Special food doesn't help a lick if they don't eat it.

Question for you - did they check SDMA on the blood work? If so, was it normal or high?
There's the thing: and the only other "high ticket" item in terms of food's "bulk" is fat. And echo Donutte's previous mention of phosphorus being a key factor to focus on, be it with foods that are lower in phosphorus and/or using a binder.
 

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Not many people here feed kibble, or recommend kibble, and I doubt you'll find anyone that will agree that a lower protein kibble is the right approach in your situation. I'm sorry you don't like my reply or my suggestions, but you're free to ignore it. Good luck.
I agree 100%, I meant to respond to this earlier but got distracted. Bonitababy you really seem to be missing the point in that you are doing more harm than you intend to with your cat. There have been lots of excellent questions/suggestions on this post regarding blood testing and results. I wouldn't use most general vets as my go to source for anything nutrition related, most get very little nutrition training and those that do it's literally a seminar put on by hills or Purina so it's going to be very biased and slanted. So just because you found an article online or one vet told you the problem was protein food related does not mean that it is defiantly the problem. In fact, biology, genetics, and nature would suggest it almost certainly isnt. It makes very little sense biologically speaking that an obligate carnivore who needs a diet almost exclusively from animal protein and fat would somehow have a resulting conditions from eating what they were intended to eat. It makes more sense that the condition stems from some other factor or factors, and feeding it food it wasn't ever intended to eat won't help. I am not an expert, nor am I trying to come off preachy but there is a lot of good in this thread you are ignoring because you don't seem to be open to any ideas outside of a "low protein diet." I did a quick search as I am certainly not an expert regarding kidney disease but I quickly found the low protein thing seems to be called into question and that the more important factors would be water/hydration and phosphorus.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/9582959/

http://allthebestpetcare.com/kidney-failure-in-cats/
 
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missmimz

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I agree 100%, I meant to respond to this earlier but got distracted. Bonitababy you really seem to be missing the point in that you are doing more harm than you intend to with your cat. There have been lots of excellent questions/suggestions on this post regarding blood testing and results. I wouldn't use most general vets as my go to source for anything nutrition related, most get very little nutrition training and those that do it's literally a seminar put on by hills or Purina so it's going to be very biased and slanted. So just because you found an article online or one vet told you the problem was protein food related does not mean that it is defiantly the problem. In fact, biology, genetics, and nature would suggest it almost certainly isnt. It makes very little sense biologically speaking that an obligate carnivore who needs a diet almost exclusively from animal protein and fat would somehow have a resulting conditions from eating what they were intended to eat. It makes more sense that the condition stems from some other factor or factors, and feeding it food it wasn't ever intended to eat won't help. I am not an expert, nor am I trying to come off preachy but there is a lot of good in this thread you are ignoring because you don't seem to be open to any ideas outside of a "low protein diet." I did a quick search as I am certainly not an expert regarding kidney disease but I quickly found the low protein thing seems to be called into question and that the more important factors would be water/hydration and phosphorus.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/9582959/

http://allthebestpetcare.com/kidney-failure-in-cats/
Here's another good link, too. http://www.animalendocrine.com/wp-c...thyroidism-Concurrent-Renal-Disease-Final.pdf

I just want to stress to the OP that I am not trying to be condescending or elitist about food or kibble. I just know how important feeding high quality protein is to cats, especially seniors, and I know first hand the struggle of kibble addicted older cats. I have some kibble in my cats rotation, so I'm not some kibble hater that doesn't get it. I just think the approach to lower protein is wrong, and opposite to what cats need in their diet, and it seems clear that there are missing pieces to this story when there hasn't been a confirmed case of CKD or why the vet is suggesting a lower protein dry food rather than increasing wet food. 
 

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MOD NOTE:   Please keep in mind the forum rules  when posting, in particular, do not suggest to another member that they should change anything in the course of treatment prescribed by their vet without first consulting with a qualified veterinarian.  

Also, please keep it civil.  There is always room for different opinions, as long as they're expressed in a respectful way.  
 

Anne

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It's been mentioned here that most TCS members feed wet food. I just wanted to add that the results which came up in one of our quizzes show a slightly different picture. 40% of respondents said they feed a mix of dry and wet. The next largest group was "mostly dry" at 20%, followed by "mostly canned/wet) at 16%. 

Either way, I agree that when nutrition for a cat with health issues is concerned, the best source to consult with would be a veterinarian who specializes in nutrition. There are such veterinarians out there, and quite a few of them offer phone or even email consultations -

http://www.acvn.org/directory/

I wouldn't necessarily follow the advice in some of the websites mentioned here either. The authors are not themselves qualified pet nutritionists and my general impression is that they don't always follow evidence-based science alone and seem to fall for the "natural bias" quite often. 

I wrote a piece about this here -  [article="32765"]The Science Behind Cat Nutrition​[/article]  
 

donutte

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Agreed. Plus if there is a low protein / low carb food that exists (if you vet truly feels that is needed), hopefully they will know because I honestly can't think of any that fit that criteria. I studied cat food for a solid month too! I think after all that I ultimately decided to keep feeding them what I was feeding them anyway. I just added some things in to "treat" them occasionally. And Miss Sara (my CKD girl) gets whatever she wants because I want her to keep putting weight on. Sometimes she wants kidney food, sometimes not.

I do think it might be helpful to get a second opinion, possibly with a vet specializing in nutrition as Anne stated. I personally feed ALL my cats a mix of wet and dry, and have ramped up the wet over the last year or so but will likely never be 100% on wet food.
 

missmimz

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We know scientifically that cats are obligate carnivores. Based on that fact alone we know they need meat and meat based tissues in their diet, not corn or wheat or carbs. Do we have studies to back up that raw diets are better than kibble? Probably not. But we do have facts about the biological makeup of a cat, enough to know what they need and don't need in their food. http://www.vet.cornell.edu/FHC/health_information/FeedYourCat.cfm
 
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BonitaBaby

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Some of these posts are very frustrating and I find I have to repeat myself again. I was and am looking to lower the protein in the dry kibble my cat was eating which was mostly Orijen at 40-41% (not 45%). I am really dipping down to probably more of the protein level most cat owners feed their cats. I've been searching for a good brand grain-free kibble at 30-35% protein and settled on Petcurean Now Fresh Adult which is grain-free and 33% protein and 31% carbs. I was hoping others knew of either a better kibble at the same levels or one with lower carbs.

Older Cats and Protein: A Delicate Balance

"Chronic kidney disease (CKD) is extremely common in older cats and can only be diagnosed via traditional means when the condition is quite advanced (when two-thirds to three-quarters of a cat’s kidney function is already lost). Since CKD is a chronic, oftentimes slowly progressive disease, it follows that many older cats have reduced kidney function that is not yet bad enough for our laboratory tests to diagnose.

Overfeeding protein, particularly poor quality protein, to cats with CKD worsens their condition. As a result, some senior cat foods have been designed to have reduced protein levels, presumably based on the assumption that many of these individuals have undiagnosed kidney disease and would benefit from a lower level of protein in their diets.

Not so fast. Another common problem in older cats is sarcopenia, the loss of skeletal muscle mass and strength associated with the aging process.

So it appears that the owners of older cats are between the proverbial rock and a hard place, yes? Until more research into the optimal dietary protein levels for senior cats is done, I think the best solution lies in focusing more on protein quality rather than quantity."

I'm not interested in waiting until my cat is diagnosed with CKD. Also, I'm looking for quality protein kibble as I usually do which is more important than the %. Some people agree that cats with CKD do better on low protein and others don't. Same with senior cats. I do believe healthy senior cats do fine on high protein usually, but senior cats who are showing early signs of illness related to the kidneys probably should be on lower protein kibble.
 
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donutte

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Bonitababy, I would strongly suggest you ask your vet for his/her thoughts on a brand of food, or preferably get a 2nd opinion from one that has nutritional expertise. I personally cannot think of one that would fit the criteria you are looking for, unless it was very high in fat (which you don't necessarily want either).

I personally disagree with treating a at for a disease they do not have, on the chance they might get it. Most of the cats I've had did not develop CKD, but a few have. I never treated them proactively though for CKD on the off chance they would get it. If they are going to get it, they'll get it regardless of what you do. It's just the luck of the draw.
 
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