FIP

Hello everyone, this is my first post here please bare with me if I waffle.

Ok, so a year ago I got my first cat, a British Short hair called Zod, great lad.
We took in another kitten (Marv) around 4 months ago and began to introduce them which went extremely well.
A few weeks back Zod became sick and was off his food.
After a visit to the vet we realised he had water on the stomach and it was Wet FIP.
He continued to decline quickly and by day 3 he was gone...which was horrible.

Marv, my remaining kitten has been tested positive for FCoV (it seems that he was possibly the carrier of the original virus in the first place)
The vet said although he has FCoV he has high Titres levels and that basically equates to FIP.

This is where I'm finding this confusing.
What he's telling me and what Iv read are contradicting.
I was wondering if anyone could shed anymore light on the subject for me as to what the chances are of my remaining little buddy developing FIP, so I can at the very least prepare myself for what might come.

Thanks, I hope this makes sense.

First of all, let me tell you how sorry I am that Zod came down with FIP.  If you had him for an entire year before he developed it, that would lead me to believe that Marv was the carrier of the virus.   FIP is a strange disease.   It is caused by a corona virus, the one Marv is testing positive for.  HOWEVER, being positive for corona virus does not mean that particular cat has FIP!  The corona virus itself is present in many cats and never turns deadly.   It can live inside them without causing any problems after the initial infection.  Marv may be a carrier of corona virus, but it may never turn into FIP.  In the absence of symptoms, all you can do is wait and see.  Time will tell.  There is a test for corona virus, but there is no test for FIP.  Diagnosis is made using a combination of symptoms, history, and response or lack of response to treatment.  Common early symptoms are a chronic fever that does not respond to antibiotics and a loss of appetite, plus an extreme wasting away.

They can pass it to other cats and the other cats will not necessarily have a problem with it, BUT for unknown reasons, the corona virus can MUTATE into a deadly form.  While the regular corona virus may have lived in the intestines peacefully, the mutated corona virus passes out of the intestines and into the abdominal cavity and can attack the organs, and the body's response to this is to put out all that yellow fluid trying to fight the infection, but it never wins.  It can also be what is called the "dry" form of FIP which is much harder to diagnose and usually much slower, because there is no big belly.  it attacks the neorological system and the cat may have bouts of not eating, low grade fevers and feeling sick and then seem to recover for awhile, then have bouts of the sickness again, until eventually it stops recovering, stops eating, and if not diagnosed and euthanized then, it can then have nasty neurological symptoms which finally lead to diagnosis.  FIP is fatal, so once the cat is not having good days, there is no point fighting the disease.  It is kindest to euthanize before they suffer more. 

Here are two stories.   I have had one case where one kitten in the litter came down with FIP after being spayed, and the mother cat and the other two kittens never developed it.  I had another case where there were four kittens and one of them came down with it about 3 weeks after the whole litter was neutered/spayed, and she was put to sleep at about four months of age.  The other three did not come down with it.  Two were adopted out with a warning they should be ONLY cats, and the third stayed with me.  A little over a year later, she slipped out and was hit by a car and had a bad shoulder injury that required amputation of one front leg to save her life.  She was recovering well from the amputation, getting around on three legs, growing back the shaved hair, and suddenly she stopped eating and started getting very strange and hiding behind the bed, not wanting to be social at all.  Sure enough, she had developed FIP, probably because of the stress of all she had been through. She lived a year longer than her sister, but she didn't make it to two years old.   Her two siblings are nearly three years old now and are fine. We have seen a correlation between stress and developing FIP in these cats we knew were exposed to FIP.  They can be carriers of the corona virus, and since one of their siblings developed FIP, you know it is a corona virus that could mutate into the deadly form.

As long as Marv stays healthy, enjoy him, love him, and keep him as stress free as possible. He may never get FIP, and there is no way of knowing.  Most of the cases I have seen are in cats under two years of age, before their immune systems have developed completely.  Often just one in a  litter is affected and the others don't get it.   If he does just fine and you want to add another cat, I would suggest getting one who is over two years of age. 

Depending on how much you want to know, there are many good articles available on the internet.  Here are a couple and you can do a google search for others.   There are simplistic ones and in-depth scientific studies.   I will give you one of each.

http://www.vet.cornell.edu/fhc/Health_Information/brochure_ftp.cfm

http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Content.plx?P=SRC&SourceID=19&S=&EVetID=0

Ahh, thank you for the reply.
I had read a few things like this but you have filled in the gaps for me.

My vet wasn't that willing to discuss it in the depths like you have and I feel like he has wrote Marv off immediately, which I found upsetting.

Anyway, I appreciate the info and advice a lot, thank you so much.

One more thing, if stress is a possible cause of FIP development should I consider not having Marv castrated?
He's coming up to 6 months and I know health and behaviour wise it's a good idea...now I'm thinking it may not be worth the risk.

gregg81 said:

Ahh, thank you for the reply.
I had read a few things like this but you have filled in the gaps for me.

My vet wasn't that willing to discuss it in the depths like you have and I feel like he has wrote Marv off immediately, which I found upsetting.

Anyway, I appreciate the info and advice a lot, thank you so much.

One more thing, if stress is a possible cause of FIP development should I consider not having Marv castrated?
He's coming up to 6 months and I know health and behaviour wise it's a good idea...now I'm thinking it may not be worth the risk.

Click to expand...

Spaying is a very simple surgery and kittens tend to bounce back from it very quickly. They have a day of grogginess, a couple days where they might be a little sore but mostly confused why you won't let them play as much, and then they're back to their normal routine and are fully healed in a couple weeks. Kittens especially heal quickly because they're still growing.

Being intact and reaching sexual maturity would probably be more stressful for Marv, because he would be hypersensitive to any female cats in heat in the area and also territorial intact male cats. It would also be more dangerous because intact males want to roam and he would be more inclined to try to escape (and risk injury). Compared to not getting him spayed, the risk of stress from the surgery seems very minimal.

I understand.
Thanks for all the advice.
Marv says cheers too

I'm so glad I was able to help.  Someone else on here said that the only thing that makes sense after we have experienced these things is to share them with others to make their experience easier. 

Your vet probably didn't want to discuss FIP with you because the disease is fatal, and you have just lost one beloved cat to the nasty virus.  Marv has tested positive for the corona virus, too, and there is nothing at all your vet can do to prevent him getting FIP too.   You can do your best to keep him healthy and stress free, but beyond that, it is up to his own body and immune system to protect him, or not.

If Marv were mine, I would definitely wait as long as I could to have him neutered.  There is no rush to neuter him this young if he is an inside only cat, and carrying this virus, he really SHOULD be an inside only cat.  The older he gets, the stronger his immune system gets. You have nothing to lose by waiting, and perhaps something to gain.  When his urine starts to smell skunky or his behavior starts to get a little wild, or he starts singing love songs out the window, THEN you can get it done.  You probably can't wait until he's two years old, but you can certainly wait until his testosterone starts causing problems. 

The other recommendations I have read are not to board him or even take him to the vet's office unless of course he is ill.  When you do get him neutered, he should not be kept overnight.   He should come home the same day.  If you must go on a trip, get a good cat sitter to care for him at home.  Don't introduce a puppy or another cat at this time.  Spoil him rotten, feed him GOOD quality grain free WET food (not dry) to avoid urinary problems which would be painful and stressful, and think positive thoughts, seeing him as a healthy kitten.  If that changes, you will know and you will face it, but don't spend time worrying about what you can't change.

Thanks for the photo.  Marv is very beautiful!   He looks very healthy right now.

The way I see it, you have been very well informed by one of our experts, you now have the necessary knowledge of information under your belt to tuck away, Sooo,  now just enjoy watching that darling little Marv grow up.  He is such a cutie!!

Hi!  I have been researching what FIP is all morning.  I had to put down one of my feral's yesterday because of FIP. 

My concern is because I am the caregiver for about 6 cats and I wasn't sure if the other cats would get it too.  I've read several conflicting articles (one said it was extremely contagious)  and to be honest I wasn't always sure what I was reading.  Your explanation made sense of what the vet told me.  Some articles say it is an automatic death sentence for the rest of my cats but the vet told me that it is like cancer - some will get it some won't - even though we all have the gene.   She told me the only thing I could do was watch the remaining cats and be aware if they get sick. 

I read online to take all the food/water bowls she used and sterilize them.  I threw away anything but the stainless steel.  Those I hand washed and then used diluted Clorox to wash them again. I then washed again in dish washing soap to make sure there was no residue.  I am hoping that is enough to sterilize them. 

Is there anything else I should do?  Watching that little cat die was horrible.  I want to do my best to keep it from happening to the others!

FIP is a horrible disease.  I don't think anyone really knows for sure.  I do know it seems to be more common  in multi cat homes but I don't know if that has to do with it being contagious.  The cononavirus that starts everything is very contagious, in fact a lot of cats will test positive for the antibodies meaning they have been exposed.  For some reason there is this weird thing that goes on between the immune system and the virus and it mutates into FIP. 

I do believe that there is a genetic connection as to why some get FIP and others don't.  I know that all cats including those in the wild can get FIP.  Cheetahs have a higher than average rate of FIP.  Most cheetahs are related because only a few survived the last ice age.  That is what makes me think there is some kind of genetic predisposition.  

My heartfelt sympathies go out to you.  Red Top Rescue gave you an excellent description and advice.  We rescued an 8 mo. old purebred kitten who was diagnosed with FIP at the age of 3.  I was so distraught that I took him to a feline veterinary specialist for a 2nd opinion but she confirmed what my vet told me.  It is a devastating disease, please accept my sincere condolences.

Hello.. I lost my sweet babygirl piper at just 2 and a half years old 4 days ago.. I am so lost and heart broken.. she was such a sweet baby and was just fine 2 weeks ago.. I still have another cat named munchkin... I got her one day after piper... so she has never been with out her friend piper... I want to get another kitty at some point but I don't know how long to wait or if I should get munchie a different friend for awhile... I don't want her to be lonely and even though I'm not ready right now I'd like to get her a friend at some point... I am so in shock my pipey is gone... I miss her so much

I read your post.. i clicked off.. i couldnt bring myself to open my feelings up again.. im still grieving the loss of my JAxx to FIP....So ok.. everything was just fine.. got so sick.. put him down.. just 5 months old.. I understand your grief.. im so so sorry.. it is so hard.. we love them so much.. Heartbroken.. Munchie im certain is feeling the loss Of your forever kitty angel Piper..I also posted "How long should i wait" i got many answers from helpful people here at TCS.. I got one reply that really helped.. my JAxx would want me to try again.. and adopt another kitty that needed me.. so i did.. and my MAxx is helping me day by day.. little by little.. I still have moments that i cry.. and am so sad.. but my heart opened for kitties to love ... and my life has been much more full.  

I'm so sorry for the loss of your precious girl, Piper.  My sincere and deepest sympathies go out to you.    Perhaps you would like to post a tribute to Piper in the Crossing the Bridge section of the forum.  Please hug Munchkin and treasure all the wonderful memories you both had with Piper. 

I'm so sorry that you lost your sweet kitty.  Big hugs to you and munchkin.