Shy Around Men??

I was playing with Casper last night and I noticed some behavior that makes me think.

Casper has always been partial to his girl-human but has been skittish around me, the guy-human. He'll sit on her lap and purr while she pets him an holds him but it's a rare day when he even sits on the sofa beside me. He'll sit up on his haunches and ask for a scratch behind the ears from her but, for me, a head butt or a scritch behind the ear is the best I get.

If I walk in the room, it's "all eyes on me." If she walks in the room, he might lay down, roll over and beg for a pat on the tummy, I've tried lying on the floor, facing away at 45° and pretending to ignore him. I've done the "slow blink" with him. I give him his kitty cookies every morning and pet him. I play laser tag with him at night, after dinner. He is warming up to me, gradually, but there still seems to be something that just isn't quite right.

Maybe Casper is a "one person cat." I'm okay with that. Lots of cats are like that. Mostly normal. I just feel bad that he gets so wired up whenever I'm around.

Last night, it was time for Casper to have some catnip. Casper is a catnip feind! I've never seen a cat who gets off on catnip so much! He would put his head in the jar and just eat the whole thing if I let him!

Anyhow, I got the bright idea to rub it all over my hands and offer his catnip in-hand instead of putting it on the floor in his play area. For the first time in the three months since we adopted him, Casper engaged in hand play!

Background: I grew up around dogs and cats, since I was a kid. I can "rough house" with a hundred pound dog. Spike, the former cat, weighed in at 20-plus pounds. He liked to rough house, too. Spike didn't take any bull from anybody. Long story short; I don't have a problem taking a couple scratches and nips from playing with a cat.

Anyhow, I let Casper nibble on my fingers a bit. He would sniff and lick and paw at me.
I was really, really careful to hold my hands steady and not make any threatening moves. Just move my hands slowly and wiggle my fingers a little bit.

Next, he did something that made me go, "Hmmm?"

He would play bite my hands but IMMEDIATELY cower and try to run away.
He didn't bite very hard. Just nibbling and gnawing. Again, I purposely didn't try to pull away.
Casper would bite then instantly cower. Ten seconds later, he came back for another sniff of catnip and the cycle would start over... Sniff... Lick... Bite... Cower. This happened a good dozen times over a ten minute span. (Until Casper's senses got dulled from the catnip.)

This all makes me wonder if there was a man-human in Casper's former life who abused him and punished him just for being a cat and doing "normal cat things."

What do you guys think?

Do you think I should wash my hands with catnip and let him play bit me again? I'd like to help him feel safe around a man-human but I also don't want to teach him to bite the proverbial hand that feeds him, either.

I know that getting used to new humans is a gradual process, especially when a former human was mean to him. Casper is settling in well. I just want him to know that this man-human isn't going to punish him just for acting like a cat.

What are your opinions? Advice?

T.I.A!

Artie was like that at first. He ran away from men and hid under the bed. 

For women, he ran but eventually came out...

I am not sure what it could be..

now he is the same around everyone..he is actually pretty good. He sniffs, and then goes on my bed. Sometimes he just hangs around my company.

When the male superintendent of the building comes in to do repairs, Artie is there with him, supervising...

I used to engage cats in play with my hand, but I have come to believe that this is not entirely in the best interests of the cat. Obviously, you are an adult and you are able to live with the consequences. But the cat may come to believe that anyone's hand is for playing with and biting. So you have the makings of a Diplomatic Incident if the child of a visiting relative or friend goes to stroke the cat and the cat decides to give the child a bite which might be OK for you but not for the child. And think about how things will work out if you and your partner have a child.

This scenario can work out in other ways too - for example if the cat goes outdoors and a passer-by interacts with it and gets a bite. You may have a complaint about a dangerous cat. And in the worst case, if the cat goes into a rescue .... Well every rescue has to make a decision on whether the cat can be rehomed and every rescue knows who the biters are and some will euthanaze those cats they do not believe will be successfully rehomed.

If the cat head butts you and allows you to scratch under the chin, you are doing OK. Allow the cat to associate your hands with affection and play with the cat using a toy with which the cat can be as rough as he likes. And remember that it is probably not unusual for a cat to have different relationships with different people, so just set about being friends with him in your own way, without looking over your shoulder to compare how he interacts with your partner. Yes, there may have been a man who gave Casper a hard time. But given the interaction you have already, he is probably well into seeing you for yourself rather than as a stereotype male human.

I have tussled with every cat I have had.  Some liked to do it more than others but they all liked to do it at least a little bit.

You have to know when the cat's in the mood and when not.  You have to know when the cat's had enough and wants to stop.

The key thing, in my book, is knowing how to ask a cat to play.

With a dog, you crouch down and pat both hands on the floor to simulate a play bow but you can't do that with a cat.  The best way I know is to scratch your hand on the floor and wait to see if the cat pounces.  If he does, it's time to tussle.  If he doesn't, he's not in the mood and it's best to leave well enough alone.

When I was a kid, we taught our dogs to offer their paw as a gesture to signal that they were done playing rough house.  When they signaled truce, playtime was over.

Never knew a cat that would signal truce like that.  Usually they would just stop playing and walk away.  When the cat does that, do not chase!  If you do, you're liable to get clawed!

Do understand!  I won't try to tussle with Casper if he doesn't want to play!

The reason I am asking about this subject is because I have never met a cat that would play then bolt and return to play.

It's not the "play or not to play" that puzzles me.  If the cat doesn't like to play, I won't force him.

The thing that puzzles me is "play > bolt > play > bolt."

It seems to me that he wants to play but he's afraid.

Combine that with the fact that he snuggles the girl-human but is skittish around the guy-human and that's the reason I ask this question.

I gather that you are agreeing that Casper might have had a hard time in the past but I also perceive that you are telling me not to make a big thing out of it.

Cats will be cats.  Right?    Thanks for the candor.    Sometimes I can overanalyze things. 

I agree with you that a cat shouldn't be taught to play if you aren't willing to accept the consequences.  You are going to get nipped and scratched.  It's part of the game.

(Don't try to play rugby if you aren't willing to come home with a few bruises, every once in a while.)

Yes, I understand that if you teach a cat to play he might try to tussle with other people, too.  Casper is a house cat, 100%.  No kids and no plans for kids.  Anybody who comes to visit would know or accept.

I think Casper is going to be all right.  I've never had an adopted adult cat, before.  Always from kittens and raised them up from the beginning.

I guess it's just going to take longer than I thought for an adult cat to settle in.

Cats is cats! 

Don't get me wrong on this. If a cat is up for playing rough house, I am all for letting him have rough house. The only change I have made in my approach is not to interact with my hands as part of rough house. And that is not because I fear for my hands. It is simply to help the cat not to associate hands with rough house and mistakenly try rough house with someone else.

I would suggest you make a paper tree. Method 4 of 5 on this page http://www.wikihow.com/Make-a-Paper-Tree-for-Kids is the one. It is quite good for some rough interaction with a cat and the leaves make it very interesting for a cat.

Don't teach the cat that it's okay to bite the hands that feed him.  Right? 

Generally it is not a good idea to use your hands as playthings, for all the reasons OHWS stated.  You can always rub some catnip on a toy and use it as an extension of your hand.   I think it is very interesting that Casper cowered after nibbling on your fingers and think you are quite right that he was probably hit or yelled at for doing so in the past.  The fact that you stayed calm and affectionate to him will go a long way towards establishing trust.  It does sound like he was only allowed to interact with his previous human (probably male)  in a very artificial way and it is just taking him awhile to know he doesn't have to worry any longer.  I'm so glad you came into his life and that he now as a good home where he can be loved and treasured for the special cat he is.

I've been giving this matter some serious consideration.

I think that trying to encourage Casper to play in this manner would be counterproductive, no matter what the rationale.
No matter how carefully I play with him, any action I take is likely to be perceived as a threat. The one thing I DO NOT want to do is push him beyond his limit. That word be wrong.

I grew up having cats and dogs that play rough house. I guess Casper just isn't a rough house kind of cat.
Maybe, some day, he'll play. Maybe he won't. Probably best to leave well enough alone.

When we got Casper from the Animal Welfare Society, they told us that they thought he might have been abandoned to the outdoors.
He is acclimated to people and living indoors. He knows how to use a litter box and he is well behaved and has a good temperament.
Evidence is mounting that his previous humans didn't know how to care for a cat and, when they couldn't handle him anymore, they tossed him out on the street.

Casper is such a sweet cat! Anybody who would do something like that to a cat this wonderful must be some kind of butt head!

Casper has a good home, now. He has very few rules: 1) Don't jump on the kitchen counter. 2) Don't scratch the furniture. 3) Always use the litter box.
Beyond that, he's virtually got run of the house. I have never had a cat that I let sleep in bed with us until Casper. I've never been the kind of person who likes to have animals sleep in the same bed with them. Casper gets special dispensation.

If Casper ever decides that he wants to play rough house, he's got a human who will play with him as much as he wants.

Another interesting development...

Casper was in the kitchen with me, this evening, while I was doing some chores. I got a bottle of Formula 409 to clean the counter. When Casper hear the sound of the spray bottle, he shied and ran away.

Hmmm... It seems to me that somebody in Casper's past used a spray bottle to punish him when he misbehaved. Don't you think so?

And... No... We don't squirt Casper for misbehaving.

Just another bit of insight into Casper's past life.

The spray bottle may have sounded like a hiss to him.  None of my cats have ever liked the sound of a spray bottle; even if they didn't move away, the expression on their faces said enough!

You might be right.  I'm not 100% certain.

It's just the way that the situation struck me.

Usually when one of my cats, in the past, would hear something that startled them they would freeze and look in the direction of the sound.  Casper is mostly like that, too.  He gets "all eyes" if you know what I mean.

This time, he just scattered.  No stopping to look at it.  It was almost as if he knew what the sound was.

Casper also gets scared when he sees somebody takes off their shoes.  He hunches down, gets "all eyes" and looks like he's deciding which way to run.  It's as if he's getting ready to dodge a flying shoe.

I don't really know if it was the hissing sound that startled him or if he is actually afraid of spray bottles.  If it wasn't for the shoe thing, I probably would have thought nothing of it.

I'm not keen on testing the theory but, in the future, I will try to watch and see whether he doesn't like the sound or if he's got PTSD from being sprayed by squirt bottles.

I agree that it might be something in his past, or just a random preference thing. But also it might just be that he likes the way she handles him more somehow. Like I know I have a different petting style than my brother, and with my brothers cat I have to remember to stroke him less and mostly around his face or he'll walk away. You could watch her and see how she interacts with him.

If you ever do decide to rough house with him again, make sure your partner is OK with that too. He will also probably try to initiate hand play with her, so if she isn't OK with being scratched and nibbled than don't send the cat mixed messages about it.

She likes to play with him, too. 

Casper will sit at the top of the stairs, on the top landing, and paw at you through the railing.  He's pretty good about minding his claws.  Saying, "Ouch!" usually sends the message.  If he gets too rough, we just stop playing.  The "Three Strikes Method," if you will.  Two "ouches" then, if there is a third, playtime is over.

The way we "ask" him to play is by scratching our hand on the floor, in front of him.  If he's in the mood to play, he'll "attack" the hand.  If he doesn't play within a minute, he's not in the mood.

The way Casper "asks" us to play is by running up the stairs and hunkering down, behind the railing.

Casper only plays for a minute or two before he's done.  Honestly, he's only in the mood to play, maybe, once or twice a week.  I guess he's not a "rasslin' kind of cat."  That's okay with me.  We never try to push him to play more than he wants.

He does like to play with a feather toy and, if you toss one of his catnip mice, he'll chase it but he likes a plain, old piece of yarn better.  Just dangle it in front of him and he'll attack it. 

Casper's all-time favorite thing is laser tag! 

You can't even pick it up without him coming a-running!  He can hear the sound of the laser being picked up from anywhere in the house!  He's got really keen hearing! 

Caspers Human said:

Another interesting development...

Casper was in the kitchen with me, this evening, while I was doing some chores. I got a bottle of Formula 409 to clean the counter. When Casper hear the sound of the spray bottle, he shied and ran away.

Hmmm... It seems to me that somebody in Casper's past used a spray bottle to punish him when he misbehaved. Don't you think so?

And... No... We don't squirt Casper for misbehaving.

Just another bit of insight into Casper's past life.

Click to expand...

Paul and Chula are terrified anytime I spray anything - even room deodorizer.  As with Casper, I think they may have been disciplined by spray bottles before they became my roommates.  They are gradually getting over it, I think but it has taken a lot of reassurance.

Caspers Human said:

 
She likes to play with him, too. 

Casper will sit at the top of the stairs, on the top landing, and paw at you through the railing.  He's pretty good about minding his claws.  Saying, "Ouch!" usually sends the message.  If he gets too rough, we just stop playing.  The "Three Strikes Method," if you will.  Two "ouches" then, if there is a third, playtime is over.

The way we "ask" him to play is by scratching our hand on the floor, in front of him.  If he's in the mood to play, he'll "attack" the hand.  If he doesn't play within a minute, he's not in the mood.

The way Casper "asks" us to play is by running up the stairs and hunkering down, behind the railing.

Casper only plays for a minute or two before he's done.  Honestly, he's only in the mood to play, maybe, once or twice a week.  I guess he's not a "rasslin' kind of cat."  That's okay with me.  We never try to push him to play more than he wants.

He does like to play with a feather toy and, if you toss one of his catnip mice, he'll chase it but he likes a plain, old piece of yarn better.  Just dangle it in front of him and he'll attack it. 

Casper's all-time favorite thing is laser tag! 

You can't even pick it up without him coming a-running!  He can hear the sound of the laser being picked up from anywhere in the house!  He's got really keen hearing! 

Click to expand...

Chula also loves playing laser tag.  She will knock the flashlight off the table to let me know it's time.  It sounds like Casper is really enjoying life with you, lucky boy!

Me and Casper really made progress today!

Casper came in to see what I was doing and I gave him some petting.  I just got "that vibe" from him so I gently picked him up and put him on my lap... and he stayed there!  He stayed on my lap for about thirty seconds while I petted him.  He didn't freak out or struggle and he even purred a little bit.  When he had enough, I let him jump down on his own free will.

He made a couple of laps around the room then, a minute later, he jumped up to the desk and sat on my keyboard.

He hung out there for a couple of minutes worth of purrs and pets before he decided he'd had enough attention from me and jumped down.

I pulled out the slide on the desk and told Casper that it can be his place to hang out if he wants to.

(Under the theory: "Don't shoo the cat away from the keyboard but give him a better place to hang out, nearby.)

He gave it a look then he was like "Okay" then jumped down.

I think I'll be keeping the slide pulled out so that it can be his hangout if he wants.

For the last couple of weeks, I have noticed that Casper seems to say, "I want to come and hang out but I'm still a little bit afraid."

Staying put after being picked up, even if it's only for thirty seconds, is a pretty big step for Casper.  Don't you think?

I don't think Casper is the kind of cat who likes to be picked up very much so I won't try to push it with him, too much.  At the same time, I would like to be able to pick him up on occasions when it's necessary... like when he get into some place that's dangerous or where we don't want him to go.

It would be nice if we could pick him up to give him a little bit of love and hugs.  Casper is the first cat I have had that didn't like it, at least a little bit.

After this, however, I'm kind of hoping that we can treat him gently and show him that the humans aren't going to try to hurt him so that, maybe, he'll decide he likes it.

He seems to want to but, at the same time, he just can't seem to get over the fear.

Maybe some day... 

That sounds like good progress!  it's great that your willing to let Casper dictate the terms!  You really cant force them.  Noodles doesn't like to be picked up and she has to come to you on her terms if your going to get to pet her.  But I do try to pick her up a little bit here and there; but only at calm, peaceful times in the house, so she can associate it with not being a big scary thing.  

I was pretty amazed that Casper let me pick him up at all.  The last time I picked him up was when we took him to the vet.  He didn't like it at all.  Since then, I have been hoping that I could, at least, get him to tolerate being picked up.

While I do believe that you should be able to pick up a cat if you do it gently, I also believe that you shouldn't force it if the cat doesn't like it.

You've got to use two hands when you pick up a cat.  One under the chest and the other to support the cat's bum.  It seems like so many people try to pick up cats like a sack of potatoes or something.  No wonder so many cats don't like to be picked up!