Nico-Wasting away, help

My cat Nico is 15 years old, he has been with us since 2005.

He has been the fiesty one, a people lover, and cannot resist crunchy stuff, always looking for scraps under the table.

He was diagnosed with IDB after a lot of throw up and on prednisolone since 2012, for 3 years, half a pill.

Now he has been losing weight slowly over the years, he was 11.5 in Sept 2015 down from 18 years ago in his prime. Sept 2015 his bloodwork came all normal.

I kick myself for this ( I have another cat Sasha who was diagnosed with thyroid in Sept and heart failure this month) ,  but appears he has been losing weight and collapsed this Saturday. When I rushed him in he was 8.5 lbs, down almost 4 lbs in 4 months.

They did bloodwork, and told me yesterday that he has stage 3 kidney failure, pancreatitis possible secondary due to IBD or lymphoma.

I took him in yesterday and he had lost another 7/10 of a lb in less than a week (!), and now he is a little over 7.5

It breaks my heart, he is now smaller than my petite Sasha.

He has stopped taking treats from my hands since yesterday, today I isolated Sasha to be by herself and am monitoring him and he has not touched his food. I got broth and laid down treats as well as few potato chips, but he just looks at them. He kept the prednisolone in his mouth and after sometime I saw it on the floor

Yesterday the vet gave supportive care, but his appetite is not back and we are not able to give him prednisolone either. I do not know if I can give the supportive care drugs at home ( I dont have them yet, need to talk to the vet, she is waiting to see if he will respond)

I am at a loss what to do? I have called the vet and requested the abdominal scan, but not sure what we will find.

I feel so guilty, we changed practices in Oct to one close by (since Sasha had monthly thyroid checks) and though I have followed up on Sasha, I completely missed to take him there. If I had taken him, maybe they would have caught it earlier.

Can we treat the pancreatitis? Can we diagnose IBD vs lymphoma in the scan? Will treatments work for him?

(Sorry my post is so emotional)

the scan will not differentiate between lymphoma and IBD. based on some of the characteristics I can give them an educated guess, but not definitive. if your kitty is in good health you can do a biopsy if they recommend it. Based on the health of your baby they may not recommend a biopsy. Also,if you have already started prednisone or prednisolone it will alter any samples they do obtaine. another key point, is once you start the regimen protocol you really cannot return from that, because your baby will not respond the same. It is sad and a catch 22. this is just what I have learned, for my experience. It doesn't mean it will be the same for you. please keep updating as well I.

*They can* not I. sorry about that typo.

nicosasha said:

 
My cat Nico is 15 years old, he has been with us since 2005.

He has been the fiesty one, a people lover, and cannot resist crunchy stuff, always looking for scraps under the table.

He was diagnosed with IDB after a lot of throw up and on prednisolone since 2012, for 3 years, half a pill.

Now he has been losing weight slowly over the years, he was 11.5 in Sept 2015 down from 18 years ago in his prime. Sept 2015 his bloodwork came all normal.

I kick myself for this ( I have another cat Sasha who was diagnosed with thyroid in Sept and heart failure this month) ,  but appears he has been losing weight and collapsed this Saturday. When I rushed him in he was 8.5 lbs, down almost 4 lbs in 4 months.

They did bloodwork, and told me yesterday that he has stage 3 kidney failure, pancreatitis possible secondary due to IBD or lymphoma.

I took him in yesterday and he had lost another 7/10 of a lb in less than a week (!), and now he is a little over 7.5

It breaks my heart, he is now smaller than my petite Sasha.

He has stopped taking treats from my hands since yesterday, today I isolated Sasha to be by herself and am monitoring him and he has not touched his food. I got broth and laid down treats as well as few potato chips, but he just looks at them. He kept the prednisolone in his mouth and after sometime I saw it on the floor

Yesterday the vet gave supportive care, but his appetite is not back and we are not able to give him prednisolone either. I do not know if I can give the supportive care drugs at home ( I dont have them yet, need to talk to the vet, she is waiting to see if he will respond)

I am at a loss what to do? I have called the vet and requested the abdominal scan, but not sure what we will find.

I feel so guilty, we changed practices in Oct to one close by (since Sasha had monthly thyroid checks) and though I have followed up on Sasha, I completely missed to take him there. If I had taken him, maybe they would have caught it earlier.

Can we treat the pancreatitis? Can we diagnose IBD vs lymphoma in the scan? Will treatments work for him?

(Sorry my post is so emotional)

Click to expand...

My overall view of this is that his weight loss and lack of appetite might be coming primarily to his stage 3 failure, topped off with pancreatitis.

The first thing he really needs is food supplemented to him since he wont eat on his own, and can not continue to lose weight at this rapid pace.

A/D canned can be given by the vet, diluted some with water and fed to him via a large syringe.

Some take it easier then others, but regardless, this is what he needs now asap.

I would assume the pancreatitis is secondary due to IBD. I think most IBD cats have this too, I know my girl does.

I think lymphoma can occur later when kitty has had IBD for some time, so it's possible.

While only a biopsy can say for certain if lymphoma is going on, however a very skilled/experienced ultrasound person will be able to read the results fairly well and indicate if lymphoma is suspected or not. Mine was not thankfully.

Once this has been done, the vet can give leukeran with out a biopsy being done, especially since he is in no condition for surgery now.

Leukeran is highly effective in treating lymphoma. But he MUST get to eating, get those calories in to him ASAP.

He is also at risk of HP (liver shut down) if he isn't getting a minimum of 50% of his normal caloric intake a day.

That you do NOT want to add in to the mix.

catwoman707 said:

 
My overall view of this is that his weight loss and lack of appetite might be coming primarily to his stage 3 failure, topped off with pancreatitis.

The first thing he really needs is food supplemented to him since he wont eat on his own, and can not continue to lose weight at this rapid pace.

A/D canned can be given by the vet, diluted some with water and fed to him via a large syringe.

Some take it easier then others, but regardless, this is what he needs now asap.

I would assume the pancreatitis is secondary due to IBD. I think most IBD cats have this too, I know my girl does.

I think lymphoma can occur later when kitty has had IBD for some time, so it's possible.

While only a biopsy can say for certain if lymphoma is going on, however a very skilled/experienced ultrasound person will be able to read the results fairly well and indicate if lymphoma is suspected or not. Mine was not thankfully.

Once this has been done, the vet can give leukeran with out a biopsy being done, especially since he is in no condition for surgery now.

Leukeran is highly effective in treating lymphoma. But he MUST get to eating, get those calories in to him ASAP.

He is also at risk of HP (liver shut down) if he isn't getting a minimum of 50% of his normal caloric intake a day.

That you do NOT want to add in to the mix.a​C

Click to expand...

catwoman707 said:

 
My overall view of this is that his weight loss and lack of appetite might be coming primarily to his stage 3 failure, topped off with pancreatitis.

The first thing he really needs is food supplemented to him since he wont eat on his own, and can not continue to lose weight at this rapid pace.

A/D canned can be given by the vet, diluted some with water and fed to him via a large syringe.

Some take it easier then others, but regardless, this is what he needs now asap.

I would assume the pancreatitis is secondary due to IBD. I think most IBD cats have this too, I know my girl does.

I think lymphoma can occur later when kitty has had IBD for some time, so it's possible.

While only a biopsy can say for certain if lymphoma is going on, however a very skilled/experienced ultrasound person will be able to read the results fairly well and indicate if lymphoma is suspected or not. Mine was not thankfully.

Once this has been done, the vet can give leukeran with out a biopsy being done, especially since he is in no condition for surgery now.

Leukeran is highly effective in treating lymphoma. But he MUST get to eating, get those calories in to him ASAP.

He is also at risk of HP (liver shut down) if he isn't getting a minimum of 50% of his normal caloric intake a day.

That you do NOT want to add in to the mix.

Click to expand...

​Can you please take a look at my baby's X-Ray? Why can't I can get a prescription for Leukeran since my Vet has diagnosed him with Lymphoma? I want to do everything possible to save him. If you read my story can you tell me why IBD is not on the table for my Mukkia?

Mukkia said:

 
​Can you please take a look at my baby's X-Ray? Why can't I can get a prescription for Leukeran since my Vet has diagnosed him with Lymphoma? I want to do everything possible to save him. If you read my story can you tell me why IBD is not on the table for my Mukkia?

Click to expand...

At the top of this page on the left it says start a new thread, you should start one of your cat and history so that you can get help/advice/support.

We are not able to look at the x-ray and tell you what is going on with him though, you will just need to give a full history on him.

Thanks.

catwoman707 said:

 
At the top of this page on the left it says start a new thread, you should start one of your cat and history so that you can get help/advice/support.

We are not able to look at the x-ray and tell you what is going on with him though, you will just need to give a full history on him.

Thanks.

Click to expand...

I apologize. Today is my first day on here. I do have one thread I posted today about feline gastrointestinal lymphoma. I will not make this mistake again, :-( I truly apologize again.

Thank you catwoman.

Since he has not eaten at home, i was debating between more supportive care at the vet vs a scan. Earliest scan appt was tomorrow so i opted to take him into the ER, now waiting here, hopefully they can do scan today.

My vet did not suggest chemo either, she vaguely mentioned oncologist, but given his drastic weight loss maybe she thinks it wont be effective? He has lost 4-5 lbs, over 4 months and i am sure the bulk of it was this month.

I will ask ER vet about chemo, agree he likely will not survive a biopsy and also he has been on pred for 3 yrs.

Ok, his scan is done.

Good news, they did not find any tumors or leisons, the IBD seems under control.

The ER vet says she saw a dental abscess and will treat with an antibiotic. Now i specifically asked my my vet yesterday about his chewing difficulties and she said no dental issues. So now i am wondering why they missed it? The vet yesterday and the one on saturday?

Now he also does have pancreatitis, so they will do more fluid, pain, appetite, nausea care etc here, and i will monitor him at home. She wants liver, kidney bloodwork and fluids agsin tomorrow. But the ER vet is fuzzy about long term prognosis, how long will he continue supportive care for pancreatitis, especially this seems to be a painful condition? Is increased steroid dosage a good treatment

Each vet is so different that it is very overwhelming. I will search archives for pancreatitis, but would appreciate any suggestions for nico

I am glad to hear no tumors!

nicosasha said:

Ok, his scan is done.

Good news, they did not find any tumors or leisons, the IBD seems under control.

The ER vet says she saw a dental abscess and will treat with an antibiotic. Now i specifically asked my my vet yesterday about his chewing difficulties and she said no dental issues. So now i am wondering why they missed it? The vet yesterday and the one on saturday?

Now he also does have pancreatitis, so they will do more fluid, pain, appetite, nausea care etc here, and i will monitor him at home. She wants liver, kidney bloodwork and fluids agsin tomorrow. But the ER vet is fuzzy about long term prognosis, how long will he continue supportive care for pancreatitis, especially this seems to be a painful condition? Is increased steroid dosage a good treatment

Each vet is so different that it is very overwhelming. I will search archives for pancreatitis, but would appreciate any suggestions for nico

Click to expand...

That is good news, and you are so right about other vets. I would always consider getting second, third and fourth opinions. 

Mukkia said:

I am glad to hear no tumors!

Click to expand...

Thank you, I really hope he starts eating tomrrow.

Zed Xyzed said:

That is good news, and you are so right about other vets. I would always consider getting second, third and fourth opinions. 

Click to expand...

Thank you, I am feeling so disheartened, what if the abscess is the reason for not eating and weight loss? The poor cat has been suffering over something simple, and was almost gone.
And if he starts responding to the antibiotic and stabilizes, I am changing vets, yet again. It is hard to find sensible practioners for both humans and our pets.

Fingers crossed hoping that he will eat tomorrow.

I hope the poor guy starts feeling better 

I hope he starts eating as well. Have you tried an appetite stimulant? Do they make an Orajel like type for animals?

Why not get a shot of DEPO-MEDROL?  It's long acting steroid, often tolerated much better than prednisolone and has much less side effects.  You dont have to give it orally.  One shot lasts about a month.

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5.4pt;mso-para-margin-top:0in;mso-para-margin-right:0in;mso-para-margin-bottom:10.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:0in;line-height:115%;mso-pagination:widow-orphan;font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri;mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-latin;mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";mso-fareast-theme-font:minor-fareast;mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri;mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin;}</style><![endif]from Vet Section of Drugs.com
http://www.drugs.com/vet/depo-medrol.html

Exceeding prednisolone in anti-inflammatory potency and having even less tendency than prednisolone to induce sodium and water retention, methylprednisolone offers the advantage over older corticosteroids of affording equally satisfactory anti-inflammatory effect with the use of lower doses and with an enhanced split between anti-inflammatory and mineralocorticoid activities.

Mukkia said:

 
I apologize. Today is my first day on here. I do have one thread I posted today about feline gastrointestinal lymphoma. I will not make this mistake again, :-( I truly apologize again.

Click to expand...

It's no problem at all! Happens all the time with new members

nicosasha said:

....hoping that he will eat tomorrow.

Click to expand...

Hi nicosasha !

From what you've said so far, there really is no time left for wait-and-see.

You need to feed him....until he can resume eating on his own.

Watch this:


For tonight, take whatever wet food you have on hand, blend the dickens out of it, probably adding some water - until it is pure liquid - then give him a few drops of it at a time. You can use the kind of syringe used to give liquid meds to children, available at pharmacies.

When the Vet clinic opens, get a supply of this canned food (as catwoman707 recommended in post #4): Hill's a/d Canine/Feline Critical Care

You can also get some larger feeding syringes from them. I have found that a small syringe, 10cc, was very easy to handle and use - that was also the maximum amount my cat could tolerate at any one feeding. Expect to do this at least every hour.

I said 'give a few drops at a time'....first, a cat isn't used to having a large amount of liquid in its mouth at one time (think of how little they take in on their tongues when drinking)...secondly, you need to be super-careful that he doesn't "aspirate" (breathe in) the food....thirdly, expect that he will be resisting all this - he certainly will not be so cooperative as the cat in the video.

And, if you can get yourself into the mindset of assist-feeding (versus force feeding) that seemingly small psychological change will make a world of difference for both of you in this exercise.

See why it's a good idea to find out better what you are dealing with?! You can let go of the lymphoma possibility and focus on his tooth and eating and keeping that pancreatitis in check

I agree with @Red Top Rescue

as far as the depo-medrol.

No point what-so-ever to put yourself through the whole guilt thing. It happens, and so easy to overlook something with our silent kitties.

Just move forward and get the infection cleared and have it removed. That will take care of that!

We all know what a bad tooth feels like, so very painful. It's quite possible the weight loss is due to this, which should be good news for you really.

When syringe feeding, push small amts in to his cheek area so there is no risk of inhaling the food, if need be wrap him well in a large towel so he can't resist too much.

Thank you so much guys!

We are back home, he got fluids, a pred shot, pepcid, bup for pain, anti nausea and convenia for the tooth. I said he just got appetite stimulant yesterday so it was skipped, since i believe it is only every few days.
My hope is on the convenia to reduce his tooth pain, report says severe dental disease.
They offered hospitalization, but i was not mentally prepared for it. I missed to ask about the food as well. I was hoping he would start crunching at home, but he has not, silly me.
Now i had the broth i got this afternoon from target and fed him through syringe like the video (thank you!), he did swallow some, he is too weak to resist. If he eats tomorrow, i will take him for bloodwork and fluids, if he does not, i am not sure, we might have to hospitalize.

Anyone knows how soon convenia will take effect,or even if it does maybe he stll needs syringe feeding for atleast a day or two?

I will wake up in few hrs and feed again.

Thanks for all your support, he still has a long way to go, but maybe he will turnaround this weekend.

Not so sure I would have gone the covenia route, it's (to me at least) much better at preventing infection then it is treating it.

I would opt for clavamox oral liquid.

It's not too late though either.

Plan on feeding him for at least the next couple of days.