Bald ears in multi cat household - help!

cats321 · Feb 20, 2016

Hello guys im new here and iv joined in the hope that someone may be able to help as im at an absolute loss of what to do next let me try explain what we have going on.

Since july 2015 we have been having problems with what i originally suspected to be harvest mites,im been driven to distraction by what ever is causing my problems.
All of the cats (13 of them) are been affected with hair loss and a scaley appearance to the ear skin the problems are solely to the ears no other places are affected.
We have been to the vets and everyone was treated with advocate.
All pens were blitzed with indorex spray. Things seemed to calm down for a few weeks but soon after all cats were scratching again.

Its driving me crazy.
We went back to the vets the vet said i would need to treat everyone with advocate for 3 months in a row to properly treat them, so thats what we did.
The problems continued so we chose a cat and sent him for a skin scraping they tested for everything such as mites/ringworm etc nothing came back positive.
My problems are still the same the cats are still loosing their fur to the ears only, if i rub the top of the ears near the base the fur comes off in your fingers and leaves a circle bald spot ill attach pictures, the vet did mention to me that the hair from the cat who was tested came away far too easily and it does, also strange is that the patches of fur loss appear to be symmetrical.
The ears seem scaley they look dry.The hair is really thinned and more prominent in the darker coloured cats.
Google says that harvest mites are at their worse from july to oct but im still getting problems now in febuary so im not sure its harvest mite now.
We also considered environment so we changed from stone clay litter to wood pellets and have done that since early january but again have seen no improvement.

We feed raw diet and also royal caning dry. We changed supplier of our rc in march 2015 to a company called zoofast in poland. Not sure if that info helps or not.Problems started july 2015.
We did a course of ear mite treatment over xmas.Im not seeing that much itching going on at the moment but the fur loss and scabby ness is still present.
I hoover the cattery twice a week, For the first 2 months since i started treatment was indorexing every week, iv stopped that now as i dont want to over do it. Im at a loss to what else i can do. I love breeding and i have come so far but if this continues it will be the end of my much loved hobby its getting me really getting me down.

I am desperate now.

It doesnt look like your typical ringworm either, would i be wasting my time using/trying some canesten cream? Please note im not hurting the cats in the photos just holding them still just incase it looks wrong.

a boy we brough in in 2014.jpg

cats321
Feb 20, 2016

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cats321
Feb 20, 2016

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cats321
Feb 20, 2016

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cats321
Feb 20, 2016

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cats321
Feb 20, 2016

catpack · Feb 20, 2016

I havent seen this exact thing before, though wondering if this could be a food allergy? How many of your cats are related and how far is the ancestory of the ones not directly related?

I would first get a black light and check each cats' ears. If it's ringworm it will glow.

I would think if scabies or something, more than the war would be affected, however, might be worth doing a skin scrape on more than one cat. Our vet here would scrape multiple cats, but send off one single test for the group. This helps save money.

I would also consider trying a raw only diet, just to rule out an issue with the RC.

cats321 · Feb 20, 2016

CatPack said:
I havent seen this exact thing before, though wondering if this could be a food allergy? How many of your cats are related and how far is the ancestory of the ones not directly related?

I would first get a black light and check each cats' ears. If it's ringworm it will glow.

I would think if scabies or something, more than the war would be affected, however, might be worth doing a skin scrape on more than one cat. Our vet here would scrape multiple cats, but send off one single test for the group. This helps save money.

I would also consider trying a raw only diet, just to rule out an issue with the RC.

My thinking that a food allergy in 'all' the cats would be unlikely they have been fed the rc for 6 years without issues , however i did start ordering the rc from zoofast a polish site, sister company to our uk zooplus this would sound far fetched but one thought that ran through my head is could they be using a fake product?. I dont know. Me and my friend were chatting and said pretty much the same as you re taking away the dry, i dont really want to do this as it does help keep their weight up so what i came up with is taking the dry away from one cat and see what happens there.

I have 4 unrelated boys, 4 related girls, 2 related girls, 2 related, 1 non related.

My next step was to test say 3 more cats, i will ask the vet if they can do a muliple scrape, your right it isnt cheap, it cost me £130 for one cat as they told me they had to put the cat to sleep to do it, is that the norm?

Im also going to try using a different dry, sanabelle.

Than you for your reply

The raw we feed is purrform and we feed that on a night.

oh ps, iv just had the black light out and brought all the cats in one by one but nothing is showing up, really frustrating.

cats321 · Feb 20, 2016

I wonder if its worth trying some lime sulphur dips ?

catpack · Feb 20, 2016

Unless the cat is difficult to handle, there is no need to sedate to do a skin scrape. Now, a biopsy would be a different situation. If your cat is not hard to handle and your vet is adamant about sedating, I would look for another vet.

As for a dip...I'm not sure I would jump to this without some form of diagnosis, unless other options do not work.

cats321 · Feb 21, 2016

CatPack said:
Unless the cat is difficult to handle, there is no need to sedate to do a skin scrape. Now, a biopsy would be a different situation. If your cat is not hard to handle and your vet is adamant about sedating, I would look for another vet.

As for a dip...I'm not sure I would jump to this without some form of diagnosis, unless other options do not work.

I wouldnt consider them hard to handle and not are aggressive, vet said to me they have to go a few layers down and that cats dont tolerate it. This is the second vets i have been to as the 1st vet wasnt even interested in giving me a skin scraping she just sent me away with advocate telling me there wasnt enough skin damage to the ears to get a result.

The second vet was the one who says the cats need to be put out to do it, i think im going to look for a dermatologist vet.

I forgot to mention in my other post we have tried need oils, thornit powder, frontline sprays. Nothing seems to help.

Columbine · Feb 21, 2016

I order from Zooplus regularly, including some Royal Canin kibble, and I've never had a problem with it. I think the idea of it being fake is HIGHLY unlikely.

Out of interest, which RC were you feeding, and which Sanabelle are you switching to? I'm just wondering whether it's a grain sensitivity issue. I know allergies are unlikely in all 6 at the same time, but it isn't impossible. Some of the grain free kibbles are reasonably priced - especially if you get the Saver packs (Zooplus). Purizon is the one that springs to mind. The saver packs work out at £5/kg on zooplus uk - not so different to some of the RC varieties.

Other thoughts: Stress is a possible factor to consider with things like hair loss. Has anything changed that could have been a stress trigger? A reaction to something like a cleaning product is possible too - have you switched brands with any cleaning products, washing powders etc, or have any if your regular products been reformulated? Clutching at straws here, but do go back over everything to see if you can pinpoint a culprit. It can't hurt

I certainly wouldn't try any kind of treatment - especially for mites/ringworm etc - without a firm diagnosis. It could do more harm than good.

I hope you can get to the bottom of this soon. It must be pretty miserable for all of you.

cats321 · Feb 21, 2016

Columbine said:
I order from Zooplus regularly, including some Royal Canin kibble, and I've never had a problem with it. I think the idea of it being fake is HIGHLY unlikely.

Out of interest, which RC were you feeding, and which Sanabelle are you switching to? I'm just wondering whether it's a grain sensitivity issue. I know allergies are unlikely in all 6 at the same time, but it isn't impossible. Some of the grain free kibbles are reasonably priced - especially if you get the Saver packs (Zooplus). Purizon is the one that springs to mind. The saver packs work out at £5/kg on zooplus uk - not so different to some of the RC varieties.

Other thoughts: Stress is a possible factor to consider with things like hair loss. Has anything changed that could have been a stress trigger? A reaction to something like a cleaning product is possible too - have you switched brands with any cleaning products, washing powders etc, or have any if your regular products been reformulated? Clutching at straws here, but do go back over everything to see if you can pinpoint a culprit. It can't hurt

I certainly wouldn't try any kind of treatment - especially for mites/ringworm etc - without a firm diagnosis. It could do more harm than good.

I hope you can get to the bottom of this soon. It must be pretty miserable for all of you.

We use rc kitten kibble, we have used that since day one.We use that as it keeps the weight up on the working cats. So were taking of 5 years on the food with no issues, to me its an unlikely reason that its the food as allergies in cats arnt that common and in all 13 cats. I dont think its the food but i will take the dry away from one of the boys and see.

No not stress nothing has changed and all cats are happy and chilled. Normal behaviour.

I havnt used any new chemicals only bleach to mop the floors, thats diluted , iv always done that. Bedding is just washed on a boil wash no change there.

One of my worries was maybe i didnt get a result from the skin scrape cause they were upto date with their advocates, i did wonder if not applying any protection would let what ever if is build up enough to get a result?

Your right its so frustrating it has me in tears

Whats also odd is that my last kittens left me in december i have had no complaints from the owners which is good.

*sigh

Columbine · Feb 21, 2016

I really hope you find some answers soon. It's great that your last lot of kittens are all ok, if a little puzzling. :cross: for answers :vibes:

cats321 · Feb 21, 2016

Columbine said:
I really hope you find some answers soon. It's great that your last lot of kittens are all ok, if a little puzzling.

for answers

Thank you Columbine.

Its very frustrating.I think my next plan of action will be to keep the girls up to date with the advocate and frontline spray the ears and face along with kittens to be sure.

I think i will take the dry away from our fattest boy and see if that makes a difference

The other boys i will leave untreated and send them in for a skin scrape.If the test come back nothing wrong that would suggest its nothing contagious which would be good news.Which would suggest environment or food.

catwoman707 · Feb 22, 2016

cats321 said:
Thank you Columbine.

Its very frustrating.I think my next plan of action will be to keep the girls up to date with the advocate and frontline spray the ears and face along with kittens to be sure.

I think i will take the dry away from our fattest boy and see if that makes a difference

The other boys i will leave untreated and send them in for a skin scrape.If the test come back nothing wrong that would suggest its nothing contagious which would be good news.Which would suggest environment or food.

Some of the names I do not recognize what they are, not sure what advocate, canesten or the frontline spray is. I only know frontline as a topical flea treatment.

My opinion is that this is more likely to be a strain of ringworm or a parasite/mite thing.

I also think that a group scraping is appropriate, and there is no need to sedate a cat for this!

One thing that crossed my mind would be rather then take away chunky boy's dry food, would be to buy some athlete's foot cream that has terbinafine in it. It must contain that specific ingredient, and start using it on a couple of the cats.

I also think that revolution is worth a try because it does treat mites on skin and in ears, but needs to be treated every 2 weeks for 3 times in a row to clear it up.

But trying one or the other (or both even) would be a way to safely find the solution for this and won't cost much either.

Not all ringworm will glow, about 65% of it does glow though. The hair falling out so easily just by wiping sounds like ringworm to me, ringworm lives and spreads itself by attaching to the hair itself and drying it out so that it falls out, and stays active until another cat comes in to contact with that fallen out hair that is impossible to see, so vacuuming is helpful since those hairs will be sucked up then the floor can be bleached.

cats321 · Feb 22, 2016

catwoman707 said:
skin scraping 8 weeks later.jpg

cats321

Feb 22, 2016

catwoman707 · Feb 22, 2016

It won't grow until the active spores are gone from the spots.

I know with revolution it needs to be applied every 2 weeks, 3 times to get rid of mites and mange. (also mites but skin)

However I am not sure why the girls would be in better condition if they only received advocate but no anti fungal if it is ringworm.

By using one thing on one group and the other cream on the other group, this will give the answer.

The cream needs to contain terbinafine as mentioned, and applied several times a day for it to work and heal.

Whatever group you see improvements in and new fur growth you will know it was that particular issue they have.

If it is ringworm, that's a problem as far as the carpeting. It would need to be pulled out and soaked in a bleach solution, or completely replaced.

cats321 · Feb 23, 2016

Thanx for that

I have just been looking at my girls and this particular girl I gave a medicated bath 3 weeks ago and she looked ok ish this is her now. [emoji]128577[/emoji]

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cats321
Feb 23, 2016

cats321 · Feb 23, 2016

I have some fungal cream would this work?

Clotrimazole is used to treat yeast infections such as athlete's foot, jock itch, and body ringworm. It can also be used to prevent oral thrush in certain patients

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cats321
Feb 23, 2016

cats321 · Feb 23, 2016

catwoman707 said:
It won't grow until the active spores are gone from the spots.

I know with revolution it needs to be applied every 2 weeks, 3 times to get rid of mites and mange. (also mites but skin)

However I am not sure why the girls would be in better condition if they only received advocate but no anti fungal if it is ringworm.

By using one thing on one group and the other cream on the other group, this will give the answer.

The cream needs to contain terbinafine as mentioned, and applied several times a day for it to work and heal.

Whatever group you see improvements in and new fur growth you will know it was that particular issue they have.

If it is ringworm, that's a problem as far as the carpeting. It would need to be pulled out and soaked in a bleach solution, or completely replacd.

I think this weekend i will spend it taking out all the carpets/bedding and burning it all i have some spare tiles maybe i could start to tile the inside of the pens. Im absolutely devastated i cant see the light at the moment.

cats321 · Feb 23, 2016

Ok so i have just called the vets she said to me they wont do a group scraping but will do it while the cats awake £60 per cat . This vet is telling me its no good doing it on a cat with just bald ears there needs to be scaly skin, my problem is most of them dont look too scaly just a bit dry ish. So stressed.

cats321 · Feb 23, 2016

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cats321
Feb 23, 2016

cats321 · Feb 23, 2016

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cats321
Feb 23, 2016

catwoman707 · Feb 23, 2016

That pic of skin looks scaly enough to me to be scraped.

It's the flaking that they will take and look at.

Accurate results for ringworm will take at least a week too as they watch for growth.

No stressing! It's only because you have been dealing with this for a while without any diagnosis, but it will come soon

The thing about it is the location on all cats, the ears, and face are usually the first place that ringworm hits.

I think if it were me, I would start treatment now, using both advocate every 2 weeks and the athlete's foot cream with terbinafine as well, and twice a day at least for that.

Treat them all, pull the carpeting out, be SURE to use a vacuum once pulled out in case it is ringworm you will be disturbing the spores.

Vacuum in all cracks of the lower half of the room, then bleach it and allow it to sit for 1/2 hour before wiping it down.

Of course this is all done with the cats in another place.

That way when they are put back in the clean room they are also all treated, and the cream will help protect it from spreading around again.

There are approx 60+ varieties of ringworm, I have seen quite a few but even recently had just seen yet another new one, and a VERY hearty one, if yours is ringworm it doesn't look like it will be hard to get rid of, more of a nuisance then anything, and it does take several weeks to be gone, but it happens, it's not dangerous at least.

Bald ears in multi cat household - help!

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