Needed: Diet advise for Cat with Diabetes AND early stage Kidney disease - Please help!

Is this a Good option for my cat?

  • BFF (Weruva)

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • g/d (Hills)

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Nature's Logic (Turkey)

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lovethemall

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Hello everyone, I am new here and at my wits end with the question "what to feed my cat." So this is likely going to be long winded (and for that I am sorry) but if anyone out there has a similar experience and con offer some advise I'd greatly appreciate it! 

So I came across this site from a lot of pain staking reading as I have a kitty with both diabetes and early stage kidney disease. I believe he is currently stable and in very early stages of both (he doesn't know he is sick, still himself and eats just fine) but I want to get his "diet ducks" in order as soon as possible so as to help him am best as I can. However it seems like the nutritional requirements for these two aliments are opposite!! I am kind of at my wits end.

My vet wants me to put him on "Hill's g/d" which I ordered right away...but then I noticed it is really high in carbs....which I THOUGHT was bad for diabetes?! Since I ultimately would like for him NOT to be insulin dependent I don't think this is a food I want to feed him.

Also there is much back & forth (in my readings) about kidney disease and die t... I am inclined to believe that he NEEDS protein (because that is natural right?)  but that said when he first started signs of diabetes I put him on "BFF tuna & chicken" a high protein low carb. food by Weruva)...but then his next test results (couple of months later) did not yield better glucose levels and now show the early stages of kidney issues =o/  

Do you think this is because the tuna (main ingredient) is not good ENOUGH protein? Or because he really needs REDUCED protein? So again I am torn an in the hunt for a better option....

I stumbled on "Nature's Logic" and see that they have a canned wet "turkey" food for cat's... I can't find much in the way of reviews for this company but their website says this food is Over 90% Animal Ingredients (muscle & organ), Grain Free – Low Carbohydrates, Gluten Free, All Natural Whole Food Formula and No Synthetic Vitamins or Minerals added.

In your experience.... what are your thoughts? Should I give this food a try? Do you have a better recommendation? THANK YOU!!!
 

donutte

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Hello! Do you have blood work you can post by chance? I'm leaning toward Weruva but need to look more at the others. I forget what g/d is primarily for, but I know it is used with kidney cats sometimes. I am not too well versed on the diabetes aspect. I think they say with this combo to treat diabetes first. At work right now but will look more into this when I get home.
 

donutte

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I'm surprised about the g/d. Looked it up, primarily for cardiac and aging. m/d is for glucose/diabetes management, higher in protein, lower in carbs. k/d is the main kidney food by Hill's.
 
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lovethemall

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Hi Zed Xyzed, Hi Donutte - first thank you both so much for your response! (and just for caring)

So I was not given a copy of boy's blood work results but I was told his blood glucose was "344."  

Zed Xyzed that website you sent was great and one of the one's that made me think about the protein content/type for my boy!

As far as the g/d goes, yes I was surprised as well, I do have to add he has a slight murmur (for which he is on a very low dose atenolol...i THINK), sometimes my vet can't even hear the murmur so it's odd that would be a focus, unless she is not telling me something. 

Also in efforts to assist his kidney function I started him on "Petwellbeing Kidney Support Gold" which has some incredible reviews online so we shall see...he likes the taste anyway =o/ 

Thank you again!
 

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Are you still feeding dry also, which I would stop with diabetes. Is all fish recommended with kidney issues? I am no familiar with it?
 
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molly92

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I don't have any first-hand experience with diabetic cats or kidney disease, but from briefly looking over this page: http://www.catinfo.org/?link=felinediabetes, it seems like low carb diets are definitely best for diabetes BUT you have to monitor glucose levels very carefully so you do not overdose on insulin when you switch foods. 

For kidney disease, the one thing that seems sure is that phosphorus levels of the food must be low. Fish tends to be higher in phosphorus, so that may be part of why his kidney disease developed? This chart ranks some common cat foods from low phosphorus levels to high: http://www.catinfo.org/docs/FoodChartPhosphorus9-22-12.pdf

Looking at the ingredients for the Weruva Tuna and Chicken, it contains potato starch, which I would guess could be why his glucose levels didn't go down. 
 

donutte

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Low phosphorus is definitely key for kidney disease. Protein has been debated quite a bit. Prescription kidney diets do indeed have low protein (28% based on DMA for Hill's k/d). I'm guessing science will eventually make a solid determination on protein and kidney disease. Hopefully. I feed my girl k/d because she loves it, but only 2/3 of her diet is k/d. She gets what all the other cats get for her evening meal. Seafood has nothing to do with kidney disease, not in causing or treating it.

The brand Cats in the Kitchen (by Weruva) is actually not too bad in the phosphorus department, has high protein and low carb. I don't know what exactly those carbs consist of though. Are there "good" and "bad" carbs as far as diabetic cats are concerned?

I don't think g/d would be given just for a murmur. I'm actually not sure what specifically they would give it for (I was going by the label), I only know that it is used with some kidney cats. I've had three cats with heart murmurs now, two probably related to hyperthyroidism, the other one for no obvious reason. The first two were treated for the hyper-t, and Maple's not being treated for anything. So it is kinda odd they'd be treating for a heart murmur with no other basis.

Would you be able to ask for a copy of the blood work? I'd also like to see what the kidney values are. If a urinalysis was done, could you also provide that?
 

donutte

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LTS3

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Have you seen FelineDiabetes.com? There's lots of info there. The mesage board has threads on what to feed a diabetic cat who also has CKD:

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/diabetes-and-chronic-kidney-disease.150816/

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/...feed-a-cat-with-both-ckd-and-diabetes.142989/

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/once-diabetic-now-ckd-crf-what-should-i-feed.122633/

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/ckd-diabetes-diet-again.66241/

You may want to post there as well for more current food info. For diabetes or even just borderline diabetes, low carb canned food is best. Stick with foods that have under 10% carbs. You can use the Catinfo.org chart. I think with kidney issues you want low phosphorus. It might be tricky to balance low carb and low phosphorus but there are some foods out there you can feed.
 
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donutte

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LTS3! I couldn't remember the diabetes expert, now I will remember!

It might be tricky to balance low carb and low phosphorus but there are some foods out there you can feed.
That is so very true. Soulistic has some stuff under 1% phosphorus (not exactly low but not super-high either) and under 10% carb. But the texture may or may not jive well with the kitty. Several of the Cats in the Kitchen flavors fall into the same category, but may have a more appealing texture. Chicken Frick a Zee, Fowl Ball, La Isla Bonita, etc.
 

lisahe

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I don't have any first-hand experience with diabetic cats or kidney disease, but from briefly looking over this page: http://www.catinfo.org/?link=felinediabetes, it seems like low carb diets are definitely best for diabetes BUT you have to monitor glucose levels very carefully so you do not overdose on insulin when you switch foods. 

For kidney disease, the one thing that seems sure is that phosphorus levels of the food must be low. Fish tends to be higher in phosphorus, so that may be part of why his kidney disease developed? This chart ranks some common cat foods from low phosphorus levels to high: http://www.catinfo.org/docs/FoodChartPhosphorus9-22-12.pdf

Looking at the ingredients for the Weruva Tuna and Chicken, it contains potato starch, which I would guess could be why his glucose levels didn't go down. 
I also don't have experience with diabetic cats but would highly recommend checking the charts Molly92 linked to here: they list the carb and phosphorus levels for tons of foods. As far as phosphorus goes, lots of Weruva's foods are great. For keeping the carbs down, probably the canned Cats in the Kitchen foods that Donutte mentioned are consistently lowest: on the kidney side, I'm convinced they were a factor in improving the kidney numbers in our previous cat's blood test results. (She was a senior cat with mild kidney disease and a ton of other health issues. She ate a lot of Weruva in her last months.) Cats in the Kitchen foods are also reasonably priced and there are some good ones that don't have fish.

Weruva and Soulistic both have good online charts that include dry matter amounts of carbs and phosphorus, making it easy to compare. Their charts were very helpful when I was looking for foods for our cat. (You've probably already seen those, but I mention them just in case!)

By the way, which BFF tuna and chicken food did you feed? Was it the canned or the pouch food? The canned is very low in carbs but the pouch is higher. Then again, they're thickened differently: potato for cans and tapioca for pouches. I wonder if they might have different effects on the glucose levels? (I swear, I think these carby thickeners are evil!)

Anyway, good luck. I know it's not at all easy to find foods for a cat with multiple diseases, particularly since it can take a fair bit of trial and error.
 

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Hello,

    I can relate to your issue. I have a 16 year old cat who was diagnosed with diabetes about 8 years ago. The vet recommended HIll's prescription food as well, and i started feeding him the wet food, but he did not seem to care for the dry food. I switched him to Nature's Logic chicken dry food. I chose Nature's Logic because of the protein content, and there is no corn wheat or soy which is good because that means the formula is limited ingredient. He seems to love the taste as well, chicken is his favorite! I also choose to give him Orijen freeze dried treats because that is majority protein. I feel more comfortable giving him an all protein treat than a treat like temptations which has corn meal and by products. I started ordering his food from a website I found called nutripaws.com. They seem to carry most of the top healthy brands, that is where i get the Nature's Logic and the treats. I wish your kitty the best on his diabetic journey! My cat is living proof that even diabetic cats can live a long life!

 
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lovethemall

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Wow thank you so much all of you! I am not done reading all the helpful information but wanted to repost to say THANK YOU and also give a few updates. Ok so He don't get dry food, I JUST cut out Treats and the BFF he was being fed was the Can "tune & Chicken 4eva).

All that said here are his levels (as of Feb 2016) and by no means do I know what this all means!

Blood glucose was 377

Urine Gravity 119

B.U.M.  49

Creatinine in blood 1.4

S.D.M.A.  21

Ok back to reading all these links! thank you all again! 
 
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lovethemall

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So I just thought I'd take a minute to write an update in case anyone searches this forum in the future. After emailing and consulting with about 20 different organic/holistic/limited ingredient companies I have ordered my cat  "Merrick Limited Ingredient Diet Grain-Free Real Duck Pate Recipe Canned Cat Food."  Why? The dry matter analysis for this food is as follows:

Protein - 30.40% (so lower protein numbers for the kidneys but duck is a natural GOOD protein)

Carbs - 5.54% (low carbs for the diabetes) 

Phosphorous 0.80% (this is slightly higher than I'd like, for kidney health, but far lower than all other protein based cat foods I have researched)

Sodium - 0.30%

Calories (5oz can) 131

I will be switching him over to this and I will try and update as soon as possible with a HOPEFUL change in his health/numbers! 
 

lisahe

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Fingers crossed that the Merrick food helps! Our cats love that food so it's nice to see the dry matter numbers, thank you for posting them! I'd figured it ought to have low carbs (but hadn't contacted the company to check) and am glad to see the low phosphorus number, too. A lot of cats seem to like the Merrick LID foods -- our cats love the turkey, too -- so I'm glad to know that's a good one to recommend!
 

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All that said here are his levels (as of Feb 2016) and by no means do I know what this all means!

Blood glucose was 377

Urine Gravity 119

B.U.M.  49

Creatinine in blood 1.4

S.D.M.A.  21
Usually there's a reference range of normal values that goes along with the results. Do you know what the ranges are? If your cat's values falls outside of that range, something is medically wrong. This may help decipher your cat's values: http://www.thecatpracticepc.com/documents/bloodworkmeaningsrevised.pdf

Was a frucostamine done to check blood glucose values or was a quick test? If it was a quick test, the 377 isn't unusual. Many cats get so stressed out at the vet's office that their blood glucose level will be elevated. If a frucotsmaine was done, then 377 does indicate that your cat definitely has diabetes. The fructosamine gives the average blood glucose level over the past few weeks. Normal blood glucose levels are roughly 60 to 150 mg / dl. The sooner you can start a good insulin, the better chance there is for remission. Lantus is the preferred insulin to use but there are other good ones.
 
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