Cody yells at me when I squirt him with a water gun.

juntjoo · Feb 7, 2016

One of my cats yells at me when I punish him by spraying him with a water gun when he's bad. I mean he yells like a person. He looks straight at me and yells. He's not making a hissing or any normal kind of noise an angry cat makes. It almost makes me cry. He's a Maine Coon and he's known to evoke emotion with his own diverse and rich level of communication. I mean, I can't really make out the difference between he and another person I have a relationship with other than he has limited vocabulary and cannot speak English but when he communicates to me I hear him perfectly clear.

Anyway, there is no particular point to this. But I'll try to add relevant details. He's extremely jealous of my newest youngest cat LG who's young, athletic, cute, garners a lot of my attention. And he's just a real sweet heart LG.

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juntjoo
Feb 7, 2016

He's my pride & joy. He used to try to play with Cody til he realized after getting old enough, he's now about 2, that Cody simply doesn't like him. So now he just looks at him like 'what's his problem? Oh well' OCCASIONALLY he'll jump on him maybe just to get a rise out of him but really he's only ever expressed an interest in being friends with him. Of course I realize there may be a more complex interaction going on between them where LG is more culpable than meets the eye, though I doubt it's much more than jealously. Cody has zero problems with Sheba("Fat boy")

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juntjoo
Feb 7, 2016

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juntjoo
Feb 7, 2016

and will eat and sleep with him for instance.

Everybody eats and sleeps with Sheba.

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juntjoo
Feb 7, 2016

He's just so fat

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juntjoo
Feb 7, 2016

and loveable and generous. He'll even groom you if you let him.

So anyway, whenever Cody hisses at LG I get really angry(I've got my own issues too) and I chase and drench him with a water gun. I don't necessarily agree with the method but I have hopes he'll relate it to his attitude towards LG and curb his temptation to hiss. And I just haven't figured out an alternative. It's not like I can sit him down and talk about it. So I cuddle him, which is what he lives for, within an hour later, after I've cooled down and then actually do have a talk with him encouraging him to be nice. The main problem, other than just breaking up the harmony, is Cody can rarely eat unless I prepare food specifically for him and he's skinny enough at his age as it is.

I know I'm the monster here. So consider this a confession. But at the same time, I just wanted to share my amazing cat/old child Cody. I feel like his purpose could be, in an absence of purposeful relationships due to my anti-social nature and overall distaste for most people, he serves to provide me someone to relate to and to see myself through his eyes and learn and grow from him. And I'll say that for pets in general. It's just unfortunate they only stay for so long and Cody is like 12. I keep telling him he's going to 20. I just keep crossing my fingers.

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juntjoo
Feb 7, 2016

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juntjoo
Feb 7, 2016

margd · Feb 7, 2016

It sounds like Cody is telling you loud and clear that he really doesn't like the water gun. Since it's not working, it's really time to try something else. Spraying cats with water is not an effective training technique anyway - it doesn't work, and your cat just loses trust in you. So....put that water pistol away!

When does Cody hiss at LG? Is it every time they see each other or only during specific situations? If it's every time Cody sets eyes on LG, you might try a complete reintroduction. The articles below will tell you how to introduce cats
[article="32680"]How To Successfully Introduce Cats The Ultimate Guide [/article][article="29726"]Introducing Cats To Cats [/article]
If it's only during specific situations, is there any way you can avoid those situations? And if Cody is only hissing occasionally and not actually attacking, is that really such a problem? If he's just warning LG not to come close, that's simply how he knows to communicate his need for private space. It sounds like LG has figured out that Cody is not his biggest fan although the fact that LG still likes to jump on Cody sometimes, shows he hasn't completely accepted the message. BTW: this is LG's problem, not Cody's. The cat who needs his behavior modified in this case is LG- he needs to learn to leave Cody alone.

Since Cody's hissing bothers you so much, you might try the "sudden loud noise" technique. Try shaking a can with coins in it when he hisses. A burst of canned air may also work.

There are many approaches to behavior modification. Below are some articles that might help:
[article="32493"]The Dos And Donts Of Cat Behavior Modification [/article][article="29678"]Cats And Discipline Dont Mix [/article]
If none of the approaches mentioned in the articles above work, you might consult a cat behaviorist to come to the house and evaluate the behavior and provide custom solutions. Here is a link for the International Association of Animal Behavior Consultants where you can get a referral. https://iaabc.org/ Here's another link with tips for evaluating a consultant: http://www.responsibledog.net/choose_a_trainer.html

-------------------------

You mention in your post that Cody has special dietary needs. Could you say a little more about this? It wasn't clear to me but it sounded the conflicts between Cody and LG were interrupting the peace at mealtime. Is there any way you can feed either cat separately?

It's obvious you really adore your cats. You are among friends here - you are not the only one who relates to their cats better than to people! I hope you can find a way to establish harmony in your household.

fhicat · Feb 7, 2016

juntjoo said:
One of my cats yells at me when I punish him by spraying him with a water gun when he's bad.

juntjoo said:
So anyway, whenever Cody hisses at LG I get really angry(I've got my own issues too) and I chase and drench him with a water gun. I don't necessarily agree with the method but I have hopes he'll relate it to his attitude towards LG and curb his temptation to hiss.

juntjoo said:
I know I'm the monster here. So consider this a confession. But at the same time, I just wanted to share my amazing cat/old child Cody. I feel like his purpose could be, in an absence of purposeful relationships due to my anti-social nature and overall distaste for most people, he serves to provide me someone to relate to and to see myself through his eyes and learn and grow from him.

I wouldn't say you're a monster. You seem to be aware that this method is not working, and it doesn't work for a good reason -- cats do not think the same way we do. When you punish a human child, they understand why you're doing it. Cats, on the other hand, don't have the emotional complexity that we do, and they generally aren't going to think "I am being punished because I did X." To them, all they know is that you're doing something they don't like to them, and they don't understand why. They get scared. They hiss, they growl, they yell because they don't understand why this unpleasant thing is being done to them, and they go into a defensive mode. They revert to their wild instincts of survival -- until the unpleasant thing goes away. They are truly wonderful forgiving creatures.

We've all done things we shouldn't have. You know that is not right, so l would try to see if there is a way we can get to the bottom of that.

(I've got my own issues too)

in an absence of purposeful relationships due to my anti-social nature and overall distaste for most people

Have you spoken to a professional? I have found them to be generally very helpful to get me to understand why I did things or think thoughts the way I did. I was fortunate to have found a great therapist who gave me very good insights into the whys of my mind and behavior when I was doubting myself. My quality of life has vastly improved since I talked to her.

Your cats want to love you. They truly do. We have to speak their language, because our language doesn't always work with them. They are very receptive to us. All we have to do is listen. Here are some articles to get you started:

[article="32493"][/article]

[article="30316"][/article]

[article="32758"][/article]

[article="29674"][/article]

[article="29678"][/article]

tulosai · Feb 7, 2016

As it sounds like you may know, how you are treating your cat is inappropriate. Water bottles as a form of discipline rarely work (as you've seen since your cat persists in his behavior), and when they do work they traumatize and terrorize the cat (as you have also personally observed). I am also disturbed by the fact that you say you are 'drenching' your cat how bottles are usually used (and again, this is not recommended) is one spray to essentially startle and get the cat's attention and get it to stop.

Discipline doesn't work for cats generally. They simply do not understand it, and it is extremely rare that they would even be able to connect it to the offense. Basically, they think they are being terrorized for no reason. Getting them to make the connection is often impossible and there are better ways to deal with this.

The articles quoted above should provide some help. I especially recommend and will re-link this one: http://www.thecatsite.com/a/cats-and-discipline-dont-mix

I hope you'll be able to figure out a new way of relating to your cat that will be healthier and more beneficial for both of you.

nansiludie · Feb 7, 2016

I have a different take on this. I wonder if it is in fact jealousy that is upsetting the cats. LG, the newest and youngest one, is getting most of the attention, cuddles, petting, playtime, etc and as Cody sees it, he's gotten forgotten about. Much like sibling rivalry. Sheba seems to be an easy going cat and has let Cody know that he's in second spot while also being best buds with LG. I think its very unfair of you to bring in a young cat and then baby it so much while punishing Cody for acting out. It seems Cody is hurt and sad that you've chosen another instead of him. I strongly recommend no more water spraying, I do not use that at all in my cat keeping. If you spray Cody while he is hissing at LG, you may very well provoke him to fully attack LG. I have a 6 kitty household here and every so often someone get upset and displays the same sort of feelings so I try to keep the cats bonded among themselves and make room for all, snacks for all, etc.

Also Feliway might help calm everyone.

Another thing, you mentioned Cody is older while LG is a young one, most of the time, my oldest cat, Chispa, who's a lady, has always been an old soul, never putting up much with the young ones, always putting them in their place, especially my youngest, Mouse. If there is no growling, snapping, etc, any very aggressive behavior, I usually watch and see, let them work it out on their own, nearly always they do.

juntjoo · Feb 7, 2016

Thanks. He hisses at him within close proximity or within sudden closing of proximity. Shouldn't water work as well as noise then if at all? I'll take a look at the articles. It's not a space issue, or one in general since Sheba is allowed in there.

Well I didn't speak of his dietary issues really but since he happens to kind of ignorant to when food is being served(senility) plus the fact he wont eat with LG, feeding isn't easy and their main food has to be served. I only leave them a little dry food, the best kind possible, for some taste and texture variety. Plus they like it like kids like junk food. Lol. I shake the box and exclaim "crunchies!?" And fat boy stands up like a dog and as I pour it out LG smacks at the 64oz Gatorade bottle I keep it in, not sure why. it's a cute ritual.

I could and should totally ignore it. But I may try the noise thing. He's smart. He knows I dint like it. It the water gun is out of reach I hiss back myself at him. I really am silly to think he will change. I just wish I could get him to hold in the hiss. I know he's "just a cat" but doesn't seem like it and I really feel the hiss like someone sticking their head out of their car and yelling at LG. What can I say, I don't like rude animals.

tulosai · Feb 7, 2016

I think you have a wrong idea about what the hissing is/means. Hissing sometimes is normal between cats, even best friend cats. It's part of how they communicate. It basically just means 'back off' or 'hey, not right now' or 'leave me alone' the same way we might say these things (if a bit more tactfully) to our own best friend if we needed some space, didn't want to talk right now, etc. It's not some malicious or bad act and I highly doubt the other cat is upset by it at all, and certainly not as much as you. This is just one way cats talk to each other. Mine are brothers and best friends and a few times a week we hear a hiss. As long as it's not escalating inappropriately, this is really not a problem for anyone but you.

juntjoo · Feb 7, 2016

nansiludie said:
I have a different take on this. I wonder if it is in fact jealousy that is upsetting the cats. LG, the newest and youngest one, is getting most of the attention, cuddles, petting, playtime, etc and as Cody sees it, he's gotten forgotten about. Much like sibling rivalry. Sheba seems to be an easy going cat and has let Cody know that he's in second spot while also being best buds with LG. I think its very unfair of you to bring in a young cat and then baby it so much while punishing Cody for acting out. It seems Cody is hurt and sad that you've chosen another instead of him. I strongly recommend no more water spraying, I do not use that at all in my cat keeping. If you spray Cody while he is hissing at LG, you may very well provoke him to fully attack LG. I have a 6 kitty household here and every so often someone get upset and displays the same sort of feelings so I try to keep the cats bonded among themselves and make room for all, snacks for all, etc.

Also Feliway might help calm everyone.

Another thing, you mentioned Cody is older while LG is a young one, most of the time, my oldest cat, Chispa, who's a lady, has always been an old soul, never putting up much with the young ones, always putting them in their place, especially my youngest, Mouse. If there is no growling, snapping, etc, any very aggressive behavior, I usually watch and see, let them work it out on their own, nearly always they do.

Cody is basically one of my pillows. Last thing he lacks is attention. They all get babied. Cody would never attack. Couldn't hurt a fly, which is why his yelling at me is so heart wrenching.

margd · Feb 7, 2016

juntjoo said:
Cody is basically one of my pillows. Last thing he lacks is attention. They all get babied. Cody would never attack. Couldn't hurt a fly, which is why his yelling at me is so heart wrenching.

Listen to him! He's saying "Hey! Cut that out! Do I spray you! No, I do not. So please return the favor!"

(Cody sounds like a very special guy.)

juntjoo · Feb 7, 2016

tulosai said:
I think you have a wrong idea about what the hissing is/means. Hissing sometimes is normal between cats, even best friend cats. It's part of how they communicate. It basically just means 'back off' or 'hey, not right now' or 'leave me alone' the same way we might say these things (if a bit more tactfully) to our own best friend if we needed some space, didn't want to talk right now, etc. It's not some malicious or bad act and I highly doubt the other cat is upset by it at all, and certainly not as much as you. This is just one way cats talk to each other. Mine are brothers and best friends and a few times a week we hear a hiss. As long as it's not escalating inappropriately, this is really not a problem for anyone but you.

It's not "not right now". It's "Don't EVER come near me, as a matter of fact go jump into a pitbull's mouth". I don't need LG to be bothered to be bothered myself by it. I'm rarely apathetic and this is far from a neutral type of emotional expression. Again, not justifying my reaction. I think I may try a clown's horn despite this opinion cats/animals can't make connections. I'm sure they can but just not as easy and timing is key.

tulosai · Feb 7, 2016

juntjoo said:
It's not "not right now". It's "Don't EVER come near me, as a matter of fact go jump into a pitbull's mouth". I don't need LG to be bothered to be bothered myself by it. I'm rarely apathetic and this is far from a neutral type of emotional expression. Again, not justifying my reaction. I think I may try a clown's horn despite this opinion cats/animals can't make connections. I'm sure they can but just not as easy and timing is key.

I am going to be totally honest and tell you outright that you are punishing your cat for being a cat and for speaking his own language. I do not think anything you can do will achieve your desired result here, because you basically want him to never be bothered by another cat and if he is you want him to not communicate it in the only ways a cat has to communicate it. All you are going to do is continue to terrorize him; I don't think he will ever make this connection because he really isn't doing anything wrong. If you really love your cat I'd try to accept him for who and what he is- a cat, whose only way to communicate is how cats communicate. Your best bet for both you and your cats to be happy is to accept this as the normal behavior that it is and come to peace with it. I'm sorry because this is clearly not what you want to hear, but it is the best and most honest advice I can give you.

I truly do wish you well with your cats.

stephanietx · Feb 7, 2016

I have an older cat who would prefer being the only cat, but she has 3 younger catmates in the house. Just about anytime one of the other cats gets near her, she hisses, growls, and will sometimes swat at the offender who is in her personal space. What I have found works best is to try to head off these incidents. I will try to "herd" the offender away from her using a towel. If that doesn't work, I try startling them with an old soda can that has beans in it. I just shake the can to get their attention and that usually causes enough of a distraction to end the altercation. If that doesn't work, I use canned air. I don't blow it on them, but in their general vicinity. They don't like the sound of it and will redirect themselves to a better place. Sometimes just picking up the can makes them move.

I also agree with another poster who recommends Feliway which is a great all-purpose calming agent.

juntjoo · Feb 7, 2016

Margd said:
Listen to him! He's saying "Hey! Cut that out! Do I spray you! No, I do not. So please return the favor!" :lol3: (Cody sounds like a very special guy.)

Indeed

juntjoo · Feb 7, 2016

stephanietx said:
I also agree with another poster who recommends Feliway which is a great all-purpose calming agent.

Okay, I will have to Google that

narelle · Feb 7, 2016

As much as I dislike the degree that this concept is pushed, you seem to be anthropomorphizing here. But since that seems to be the case, perhaps it would help you to understand your cats if their actions were translated to a more human concept. LG is essentially bullying Cody here, and you only see Cody trying to get him to leave him alone. Much like when bullies are careful to harass their victims when authority figures aren't looking, and the victim gets in trouble because the authority figure only catches the victim lashing out in retaliation. You are punishing Cody for being a victim.

Back to cat terms, it seems to me that LG is trying to establish dominance. Cody used to be dominant and LG is making sure to remind him constantly who's in charge. While Cody doesn't seem to be trying to get his position back, he does want his space which LG percieves as a threat to his claim, which just makes him go after Cody more.

To a cat, a hiss is never more than a warning. As a previous poster mentioned, it is a "get back!" If a cat wanted to use as harsh of a sentiment as you are percieving, they would snarl or spit or, more often than not, get violent and attack the offender. Most communication for cats is body language and actions. LG would get a hiss, then a warning smack, before they got into the action equivalent of what you think he is saying, which would be a full on brawl.

Keep in mind that your cat is not hissing for no reason. He doesn't just dislike LG. LG is pushing his boundaries and making him uncomfortable on purpose to establish dominance. By punishing him when he is the victim, if he associates the actions at all, all you are telling him is that you aren't on his side and that he has no right to his own space.

Rather than punishing Cody, I would sooner remove LG from Cody's space when issues arise, at least until they settle things. But you do need to work on positive associations between these cats and make an effort to help them figure out how they can get along. Reward them with special treats when they are being nice to eat other. Teach them to associate each other's smell and presence with positive things. Make sure all rewards are equal. There is an imbalance in the heirarchy and both cats percieve the other as a threat. Don't reinforce that they live in the warzone. (Yes, with a neutral party right in the middle. Sheba is switzerland.)

margd · Feb 7, 2016

Feliway: http://www.feliway.com/us/#redirected It's based on a facial pheromone that cats emit when they are happy and content. Although it doesn't work on all cats, it's been a life saver for many of our members.

Feliway is available as a plug in diffuser or as a spray - the best price is reportedly at amazon.com. http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_s...y&sprefix=feliway,aps,139&tag=&tag=thecatsite One thing to note is that each diffuser covers 700 - 900 sq feet so some homes need more than one.

nansiludie · Feb 7, 2016

Another thing I've found, boys tend to be a bit more bothered sharing their space than girls. The girls often form a club, if you will, among themselves. Boys, tend to be a bit harder to get them to form a brotherhood, especially if there are various cat ages, as is in your house. I have an even number, 3 boys, 3 girls, an older boy, girl, who act as siblings. Another boy and girl, who are siblings and whom I bottled raised from kittens, another boy, who's very laid back and in the middle, then my youngest girl, who's an entire circus of her own. Always getting into everything.

By any chance, do you have any shelf space, cat trees or anywhere that Cody can escape from LG if he wanted to? High spaces make cats feel safe as they can watch the going on below.

talkingpeanut · Feb 7, 2016

juntjoo said:
One of my cats yells at me when I punish him by spraying him with a water gun when he's bad. I mean he yells like a person. He looks straight at me and yells. He's not making a hissing or any normal kind of noise an angry cat makes. It almost makes me cry. He's a Maine Coon and he's known to evoke emotion with his own diverse and rich level of communication. I mean, I can't really make out the difference between he and another person I have a relationship with other than he has limited vocabulary and cannot speak English but when he communicates to me I hear him perfectly clear.

Anyway, there is no particular point to this. But I'll try to add relevant details. He's extremely jealous of my newest youngest cat LG who's young, athletic, cute, garners a lot of my attention. And he's just a real sweet heart LG.

IMAG0168.jpg

juntjoo

Feb 7, 2016

He's my pride & joy. He used to try to play with Cody til he realized after getting old enough, he's now about 2, that Cody simply doesn't like him. So now he just looks at him like 'what's his problem? Oh well' OCCASIONALLY he'll jump on him maybe just to get a rise out of him but really he's only ever expressed an interest in being friends with him. Of course I realize there may be a more complex interaction going on between them where LG is more culpable than meets the eye, though I doubt it's much more than jealously. Cody has zero problems with Sheba("Fat boy")

IMAG0353.jpg

juntjoo

Feb 7, 2016

IMAG0387.jpg

juntjoo

Feb 7, 2016

and will eat and sleep with him for instance.

Everybody eats and sleeps with Sheba.

IMAG0460.jpg

juntjoo

Feb 7, 2016

He's just so fat

IMAG0005.jpg

juntjoo

Feb 7, 2016

and loveable and generous. He'll even groom you if you let him.

So anyway, whenever Cody hisses at LG I get really angry(I've got my own issues too) and I chase and drench him with a water gun. I don't necessarily agree with the method but I have hopes he'll relate it to his attitude towards LG and curb his temptation to hiss. And I just haven't figured out an alternative. It's not like I can sit him down and talk about it. So I cuddle him, which is what he lives for, within an hour later, after I've cooled down and then actually do have a talk with him encouraging him to be nice. The main problem, other than just breaking up the harmony, is Cody can rarely eat unless I prepare food specifically for him and he's skinny enough at his age as it is.

I know I'm the monster here. So consider this a confession. But at the same time, I just wanted to share my amazing cat/old child Cody. I feel like his purpose could be, in an absence of purposeful relationships due to my anti-social nature and overall distaste for most people, he serves to provide me someone to relate to and to see myself through his eyes and learn and grow from him. And I'll say that for pets in general. It's just unfortunate they only stay for so long and Cody is like 12. I keep telling him he's going to 20. I just keep crossing my fingers.

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juntjoo

Feb 7, 2016

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juntjoo

Feb 7, 2016

I think others have responded well, so I won't say much more. I just wanted to add that if you are chasing after your cat and drenching him with a squirt gun, he is only ever going to associate that with fear of you. He will not ever make the connection that he did something wrong by hissing, only that you are scary. I also think you are attempting to teach him not to speak up for himself, which is unfair. I hope you can readjust your expectations about life with multiple cats and listen to what Cody is clearly telling you. And I do hope that you have necessary support for yourself in place, too.

juntjoo · Feb 7, 2016

nansiludie said:
Another thing I've found, boys tend to be a bit more bothered sharing their space than girls. The girls often form a club, if you will, among themselves. Boys, tend to be a bit harder to get them to form a brotherhood, especially if there are various cat ages, as is in your house. I have an even number, 3 boys, 3 girls, an older boy, girl, who act as siblings. Another boy and girl, who are siblings and whom I bottled raised from kittens, another boy, who's very laid back and in the middle, then my youngest girl, who's an entire circus of her own. Always getting into everything.

By any chance, do you have any shelf space, cat trees or anywhere that Cody can escape from LG if he wanted to? High spaces make cats feel safe as they can watch the going on below.

I have in my plans to make a cat tree actually, to turn my home into a cat paradise, piece by piece.

Cody yells at me when I squirt him with a water gun.

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