Not you'r average "help my cat is peeing outside the box"

ok i know there are alot of forums and responses on this topic and i have been researching them for something that would help me, but i haven't found anything that pertains to us

so here it goes (hoping someone has some advice because im not sure what else i can do, or how to figure out why my boy is peeing on the carpet...) We adopted Norman (cat neutered male 3- 3 1/2 yrs) from a local Rescue about 2 years ago. A year later we adopted a dog, Mr. Bojangles, from another local rescue ( neutered male about 1 yr) It took Norman about 3 weeks to adjust and stop growling when Bojangles would get near him. They get along great now, Norman is fully clawed and there has never been an issue with the two of them. We were in an apt at the time, but I bought a house last year and we moved. Things with the move went smooth, no problems with Norman adjuting!

Fast forward 11 months later, we adopted Disco (kitten aprox 4months, male intact) from our local Humane Society right before this Thanksgiving. Norman wasn't thrilled at first, Bojangles was obsessed with his new friend! Norman would observe from afar and growl when Disco would come into close proximity of him. Norman most of the time, slept in bed with us, but it took him awhile to join us again since Disco has to be glued to your chest when your sleeping. (Norman still doesnt sleep in bed with us like he used to tho)

Norman has come around to accepting Disco and they sometimes sleep close by each other and play. Sometimes Disco gets aggressive with playing, Normal will vocally voice his displeasure, but doesn't retaliate back physically. (Norman has all claws and is about 3 times the size of Disco so he could if he wanted to) Disco has continued to "get at" Norman with his aggressive play, its actually starting to get annoying to constantly break them up, and come home to clumps of hair all over from being pulled out by claws. (they are both long haired) So i'm going to try engaging Disco in more play with toys and hope that he will give Norman a break!

A few days after Christmas, I discovered someone (but definitely a cat) had been peeing on the carpet in the corner of a living room. It was a fairly large area that had been saturated, so I'm not sure how long it had been going on for...I also discovered the back of my son's closet had been peed in as well. I immediately cleaned the areas with pet urine cleaner, got a another (third) litter box (i put it about a foot away from the pee spot in the front room), and a black light. He was already scheduled for his neuter and microchipping, so i called and asked to have them do a urine sample on him also (which came back negative for any type of infection) While I didn't know who the culprit was, after talking with the local ACO (who i know personally and who i had gotten Disco from) we thought Norman was most likely to be the culprit, expressing his stress due to Disco coming into the home.

I started giving them both so "Pet-Ease" from her recommendation, saying she had great luck with it helping in this situation. We used it for a few weeks, and whoever was doing the peeing, was STILL peeing in the corner of the front room. (i closed my sons bedroom door to keep cats out, to solve that problem area for the time being) I came to the conclusion that it probably wasn't Norman, but Disco peeing in the corner....my reason for this is Disco LOVES water, he will play in it, and doesn't mind getting wet. I had a wet paste of vinegar and water that i put on the peed carpet area, and someone was walking in it and peeing ON IT.i assumed it had to be Disco, since Norman HATES his paws being wet...) So I "blocked" the area off with totes and boxes to prevent anyone from getting to the area. I called and scheduled a professional carpet cleaner to come clean the carpets the same day I took Disco in for his neuter. After the carpets dried there was no more urine smell, but to be on the safe side, i put "pee pads" down in case he started peeing again. good thing i did too...came home from work a few days after his neuter, checked pee pad and it was dry, saw disco walk over there...checked pee pad again, and it was peed on....while i didnt see him pee, i think its safe to assume he is the culprit (not 100% sure, i guess theres a chance Norman snuck and did it when i wasnt looking) My son sleeps with his doors open and i also noticed the pee pads had been peed on thru the night in there too....I called my vet, again, and she said there's a chance that Disco can still smell the urine even tho people cannot. she recommended pulling the carpet up, clean the backing with enzyme cleaner, cut out the soiled pad and replace, then paint a layer of KILZ on the underlayment. I have not had the opportunity to do this yet, but I did move a litter box directly over the "spot" to try to save the carpet in that spot...

A few nights ago, the peer struck again...in another spot. It was in my sons room again, but not the same place as before, but close by....I'm just so confused as to what more i can do?! when i do pull the carpet up and properly clean it like the vet recommended, ive lost trust in my kitty that he wont just find another place to soil... i got an extra litter box, i have covered and uncovered boxes, i changed litter to unscented, i move boxes around the house making them easily accessible, i had disco neutered and checked medically....Disco uses the cat boxes too! i see him in there using it to pee and poop. he's a very happy kitten!! no signs if stress or anything, he is super lovable!!! Please help...!!! I love all my adopted furry family, but I can't keep having this happening....I need to find out why this is happening then correct it!!  

Edited: I missed the neutered part at the end. That was my first thought.

Have they both been checked for a UTI?

Paiger8, Disco had his urine checked at his vet apt, but Norman was not check since I don't think that it he is the source of the urine on the carpet i do suppose i should have him checked as well, just to have that ruled out...

Have you tried cat attract? It's a product you add to litter to make it more enticing to cats. It may be all of your efforts have resolved whatever caused the first few incidents, but he got in the habit of not using the litter box occasionally. Cat attract might work for that.

Do your litter boxes have high sides? If so, maybe Disco has some difficulty climbing in and prefers not to.

My first thought was that Norman was bullying Disco around the litter box, because sometimes cats get territorial of their litter. But I'm assuming you would have noticed that if it was happening. 

Getting Norman checked out is probably a good idea, though, just in case.

Molly92 said:

 
Have you tried cat attract? It's a product you add to litter to make it more enticing to cats. It may be all of your efforts have resolved whatever caused the first few incidents, but he got in the habit of not using the litter box occasionally. Cat attract might work for that.

Do your litter boxes have high sides? If so, maybe Disco has some difficulty climbing in and prefers not to.

My first thought was that Norman was bullying Disco around the litter box, because sometimes cats get territorial of their litter. But I'm assuming you would have noticed that if it was happening. 

Getting Norman checked out is probably a good idea, though, just in case.

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Molly92

I have read about the cat attract, and the vet mentioned it as well. Disco NORMALLY uses the box...i see him in the box using it quite often, its just these weird, and seemingly senseless to a human, times that he goes on the carpet.... but it is something im willing to try, him making it a habit is more along the lines of what might be happening, so i hope that might help! (i forgot to add in my original post i scoop the box 1/2 times daily also)

The covered box is a little high, but i see him use it, the other two have high backs but a normal height front, Disco and Norman use all three.

I actually thought at first it was Disco being a bully to Norman, so Norman might not be using the box, but i still feel it is Disco that is doing the naughty...Im very surprised at how well Norman does with Disco with how physical Disco can get with him...he isnt happy when Disco wants to wrestle but he has never hurt Disco. (again both have claws and Norman is a GIANT cat, i think he might have Norwegian Forrest Cat in him)

But agreed, I'll try to catch a sample from Norman and i'll have my vet check it.

They're both beautiful! Yeah, as far as Disco being a pest goes, that sounds like normal kitten behavior. The next time the two of them start to get too aggressive, you might want to just let it play out. Disco won't learn what's an appropriate level of force to use while playing unless another cat lets him know he's gone too far. Don't worry, Norman is very capable of putting Disco in his place, he's just been amazingly patient so far. And Disco will settle down as he gets older, of course.

How long ago was Disco neutered? It can take over a month for the sexual hormones to leave his body after being fixed.

I'm honestly guessing he's still smelling the pee also. You have to really soak the spot (carpet pad and all) with an enzyme cleaner to get rid of the smell. You may not be able to smell it, but cats can. If you just clean lightly or blot it, it won't work.

Paiger8 said:

How long ago was Disco neutered? It can take over a month for the sexual hormones to leave his body after being fixed.

I'm honestly guessing he's still smelling the pee also. You have to really soak the spot (carpet pad and all) with an enzyme cleaner to get rid of the smell. You may not be able to smell it, but cats can. If you just clean lightly or blot it, it won't work.

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He was neutered about 3 weeks ago. I kind of assumed that there was still a residual smell also...hoping to get that carpet up and clean this weekend. But that still doesn't explain the spot I found a few nights ago, since this was a new place he hasn't peed before :-/

Once a male cat has hit that "puberty" stage where he starts spraying, it can take a month or a little more for the hormones to leave his body after being neutered so he stops spraying.

Kind of like when a male human gets a vasectomy. It doesn't become effective for 6 weeks till everything leaves their system.  

Good luck though, and really soak those carpets well. Unfortunately one of my previous cats had a UTI and started peeing everywhere, we had to replace the carpet before she couldn't smell it anymore.   

Paiger8 said:

Once a male cat has hit that "puberty" stage where he starts spraying, it can take a month or a little more for the hormones to leave his body after being neutered so he stops spraying.

Kind of like when a male human gets a vasectomy. It doesn't become effective for 6 weeks till everything leaves their system.:lol3:  

Good luck though, and really soak those carpets well. Unfortunately one of my previous cats had a UTI and started peeing everywhere, we had to replace the carpet before she couldn't smell it anymore. :doh3:  

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Would it be considered "spraying" since none of the "pee" spots were on a vertical surface? He has been squatting to pee on the carpet, so I just assumed that it was him relieving him self rather than marking territory?

So sorry, I'm just now seeing this. You'd almost have to catch him in the act, but he could be spraying on a horizontal surface. Cats will shake their tail when spraying, and the pee will be in a line instead of a puddle like when squatting to pee. This is a good article to learn the difference between peeing/spraying. http://www.catbehaviorassociates.com/why-cats-spray/

He may also be peeing now because he can still smell pee in the carpet. The best thing would be to clean it as thoroughly as you can with an enzyme cleaner, which I believe you said you were going to try this weekend. Good luck!! I really hope this ends. Cats peeing outside the litterbox is the worst.

You may also have to confine the peeing cat to a bathroom or somewhere without carpet for a while to "re-train" him how to use the litter box. Hopefully when his only option is the litter box, he'll remember how to use it 100% of the time. 

I discovered another spot where a car has peed lastnight [emoji]128532[/emoji] Starting to get really frustrating...this time it was in my bedroom. I'm in the process of switching bedrooms with my son, (his room has already been peed in, in the closet area.) I don't understand when/how this new found spot happened. There has been a nightstand directly over the top of the carpet since I bought my house a year ago so it has to be an "old" spot from before I bought my house (didn't think there were cats here, but I guess there could have been?) or I have one very VERY sneaky kitty. Ever since the peeing started I've been trying to keep our bedroom doors shut. When I moved everything out of that bedroom my mom said she could smell pee, but I told her she was nuts, that there was no way. (Thought she was being over dramatic) but yesterday Diso walked over to a spot, sniffed it, then did the squinty eyes with his mouth open (anyone know what I'm talking about? That face cata make when they smell something?) anyway I knew what it meant, sure enough I went over and smelt the carpet and it had been peed on, it was dry but smelt. If it was discos own pee would he react that way? I'm still not sure what to think...

Well I think I understand why he's having this issue.
Cats are creatures of habbit, they need stability. You've made several drastic changes in his live very close together. He may seem okay after one change but cats aren't very outward with emotions. You got a new dog, moved and got a new kitten. He most likely feels uneasy in a new place with new animals. It's best to understand cats and how they think. Cats are the boss. They want to rule everything. He wants to be the boss of the dog, and the new cat.
Him peeing is a sign of "hey, I was here first!"
I would suggest you refrain from doing anymore changes. Some cats aren't bothered by them but the vast majority are. Things as little as re arranging furniture can cause stress.
Also, make sure you have plenty of litter pans. Place one where he likes to pee the most. Try different litter, he may not like what you are using. Make sure it's clean, some cats are very picky with how clean their litter is. Try uncented litter, scented litter, other variations of litter. Even the type of box can be an issue. He may just be very picky. Give him a wide array of options. My one cat refuses to pee in a box too big, she loves kitten boxes, while the other hates small boxes and prefers the large ones.
But I do think the changes have a lot to do with why he's not useling the litter box.
Him peeing is most likely his way of saying he doesn't like something.

How did you go about introducing Disco to Norman? How long did your introduction take place (a few days, weeks...?)

I'm going to first suggest separating the cats, mainly so that you can determine 100% who is the culprit. I'd put each cat in their own room (with litter box, food/water, few toys, some of their comfort items) this way you can also 100% rule out the dog.

Once you determine the culprit I think we'll be able to offer you better advice.

Personally, I more suspect Norman and I am more inclined to think this is a stress reaction. Stress can cause things like cystitis, so still worth a vet visit.

If it is Norman, I'm going to suggest starting over and reintroducing the cats.

Here's a good article on the subject:

http://www.thecatsite.com/a/introducing-cats-to-cats

Change the type of litter or put air canisters near the places she
Has peed the most!

misstufts said:

Well I think I understand why he's having this issue.
Cats are creatures of habbit, they need stability. You've made several drastic changes in his live very close together. He may seem okay after one change but cats aren't very outward with emotions. You got a new dog, moved and got a new kitten. He most likely feels uneasy in a new place with new animals. It's best to understand cats and how they think. Cats are the boss. They want to rule everything. He wants to be the boss of the dog, and the new cat.
Him peeing is a sign of "hey, I was here first!"
I would suggest you refrain from doing anymore changes. Some cats aren't bothered by them but the vast majority are. Things as little as re arranging furniture can cause stress.
Also, make sure you have plenty of litter pans. Place one where he likes to pee the most. Try different litter, he may not like what you are using. Make sure it's clean, some cats are very picky with how clean their litter is. Try uncented litter, scented litter, other variations of litter. Even the type of box can be an issue. He may just be very picky. Give him a wide array of options. My one cat refuses to pee in a box too big, she loves kitten boxes, while the other hates small boxes and prefers the large ones.
But I do think the changes have a lot to do with why he's not useling the litter box.
Him peeing is most likely his way of saying he doesn't like something.

Click to expand...

I'm sure Disco is the one peeing, not Norman. And I have three boxes with different size, box options for them, and I have switched to unscented litter. Disco and Norman both regularly use the boxes. It's just these random spots I keep finding. Thank you for your insight tho.

CatPack said:

How did you go about introducing Disco to Norman? How long did your introduction take place (a few days, weeks...?)

I'm going to first suggest separating the cats, mainly so that you can determine 100% who is the culprit. I'd put each cat in their own room (with litter box, food/water, few toys, some of their comfort items) this way you can also 100% rule out the dog.

Once you determine the culprit I think we'll be able to offer you better advice.

Personally, I more suspect Norman and I am more inclined to think this is a stress reaction. Stress can cause things like cystitis, so still worth a vet visit.

If it is Norman, I'm going to suggest starting over and reintroducing the cats.

Here's a good article on the subject:

http://www.thecatsite.com/a/introducing-cats-to-cats

Click to expand...

I had disco in a kennel in the middle of a room for about 30 min so Norman and Bojangles could check him out safely. After I let him out their interaction for a week was supervised. At night and during the day when I wasn't home Disco was closed in a bathroom with food water toys and litter box. They get along ok. Norman even sometimes grooms Disco. But I feel Disco is trying to assert a Dominamce of Norman. When watching their playing, Disco gets puffed in the chest and puts his ears back, like when I see two male cats outside getting ready for a fight...I'm definetly going to try the separating in two rooms and see if one doesn't use the box. That is a good idea if reintroduction too.

SuperCatLover said:

Change the type of litter or put air canisters near the places she
Has peed the most!

Click to expand...

I have changed the litter to unscented, and they use it. The spot one has peed the most I put a littler box directly on top of it until I can pull back the carpet. But since then two random spots have popped up where no one has peed before. [emoji]128533[/emoji]