resorptive teeth ?????

artiemom

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The saga of my guy...

He cannot get a break!

Artie went to the specialist for his check-up. I am waiting for the blood test results. Should be in today. The visit went fine, he gained an ounce in 4 months. At least he is not losing. 

However, I mentioned that he has been drooling a lot for the past few months; especially when he purrs. 

Many times, if not almost all of the times he starts purring, he is drooling.

One day last week, when he woke me up, and we were cuddling , I noticed I had a wet spot on my clothes, he had drool all the way down his front. When he walked away, he shook his head getting schmultz all a over my face!

He has been doing that a lot, shaking his head and giving me a bath. Last week, while I was brushing him, he drooled all over the brush. Sometimes I have to wipe him off. Some nights when he is curled up in my lap, I have a wet spot on the throw. 

I know he has dental issues. He has had 2 dentals in the 4 years I have had him. One tooth extraction. 

He is only eating wet food at this time. I smash it down and add water to it.

Well, the Vet looked at his mouth, said he has absorptive teeth lesions on several of his teeth...quite a few she said. UGH!

They do not have a dentist there. I am taking him back to his regular Vet next week for an evaluation. ugh! The specialist trained my Vet, so she knows what she is capable of ......sigh...She did not say anything when I said I was taking him back to see her. My other option is another specialist in another hospital. That one is so expensive. My vet and his entire staff know my guy. They take really good care of him. They all comment on how much they love seeing him.

My poor baby. Last year IBD diagnosis, treatment and now this....

My poor checkbook....sigh...

I feel bad for Artie. The Vet said it looks as if it is very painful..so the sooner the better. She gave me a 2 month timeframe. What gets me is that his last dental was a year ago. I guess it was not bad enough to pull at that point. I will see what his regular vet says and take it from there. Yes, they did do x-rays last year; so I feel pretty sure this has degenerated over the past year. The past few months is when the drooling started. 

Artie will be 12 years on in early February..he can celebrate it with dental extraction...poor baby...

I guess it runs in the family.. I have bad teeth also. I also have colitis. 

Artie has bad teeth and he has IBD....sigh
 
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cinqchats

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They are really painful. I brought Smoochie in after I adopted her because she was missing a tooth. Turns out she had FORLS all over in her mouth, to the point where her nerves were exposed, and that missing tooth had shattered off at the gum line. She was much happier after the surgery. Plus the vet let me keep the teeth! They stank something fierce. 
 

denice

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So far my IBD kitty has had two teeth removed because of FORL.  They aren't sure why some kitties get it but the prevailing theory is that it is auto immune in nature.  I have often wondered if it is all related given that IBD is also thought to be auto immune in nature.
 

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I am going through the same thing with my Hannah. We took her to a different vet a few weeks ago for an URI and during the exam, the vet saw the teeth problems.  We took her to our regular vet, who was much more calm about the situation, and she thinks that Hannah's problems might be taken care of with a regular dental.  Once she gets the teeth cleaned, she'll know if she needs to pull any.  Hannah's been eating well and all the other things, so I'm not overly concerned.  She has herpes and has had a lot of upper respiratory issues, so this isn't a total surprise.
 
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artiemom

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Thanks Denice,

I am also wondering about the auto-immune connection. I mean, IBD, now FORL, etc...

It is the same with humans.. one auto-immune thing seems to lead to so many other conditions--very amazing. 

I wonder if Lysine would be helpful? 

I am glad that I am the person who adopted Artie. I hate to think what could have happened to him.
 
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artiemom

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I am going through the same thing with my Hannah. We took her to a different vet a few weeks ago for an URI and during the exam, the vet saw the teeth problems.  We took her to our regular vet, who was much more calm about the situation, and she thinks that Hannah's problems might be taken care of with a regular dental.  Once she gets the teeth cleaned, she'll know if she needs to pull any.  Hannah's been eating well and all the other things, so I'm not overly concerned.  She has herpes and has had a lot of upper respiratory issues, so this isn't a total surprise.
Yes, my regular Vet is very calm about things. She could not believe that he did not need any extractions the last time. She was expecting to do them, so I guess it is now time to do so. 
 

ruthm

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I'm glad to hear your Artie is doing better and gaining weight, but I am sorry to read he has FORL after all he's been through. Being a member of FDMB, I have met many who are dealing with the same thing, one Dental Specialist said it's fairly common, in fact 29%  in North America will get it. :-(

Did you vet see any evidence of gingivitis? It is my understanding that some kitties have stomatitis, which is autoimmune and the treatment is way more complicated. Sending healing vibes for you and Artie. Some I know have used something called Plaque Off, you might ask your vet.
 
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artiemom

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I'm glad to hear your Artie is doing better and gaining weight, but I am sorry to read he has FORL after all he's been through. Being a member of FDMB, I have met many who are dealing with the same thing, one Dental Specialist said it's fairly common, in fact 29%  in North America will get it. :-(

Did you vet see any evidence of gingivitis? It is my understanding that some kitties have stomatitis, which is autoimmune and the treatment is way more complicated. Sending healing vibes for you and Artie. Some I know have used something called Plaque Off, you might ask your vet.
Thanks Ruth. I asked again yesterday, when I got the blood test results, about the need for seeing a dentist. The Internal Med Vet said no. I will see what how my own Vet feels. Yes, he had gingivitis diagnosed 4 years ago, when I adopted him. He had a dental at that time. 

Thanks for the suggestion of using Plaque-Off, but it may not be the best for him. He is not a water drinker. 

I add water, mixed with Miralax to his food. I also add a probiotic, once a day. So I am not sure if the Plaque-Off would interfere with absorption of the other stuff. Artie is also a very fussy eater. There can be no additional taste added to his food. He would not eat it. 

Four years ago, I tried brushing his teeth. That was impossible. He would not even get accustomed to biting the brush. He sniffed it and that was it. If it went anywhere near his mouth, he went ballistic. 
 

mservant

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I'm so sorry Artie and you are going through this.  When Mouse was in his first year he had a lot of lesions in his mouth and gumn redness and I was terribly worried that this was what was happening. After a couple of years further health developments my vets concluded they were down to herpes virus that later bothered his eyes more than his mouth but I still remember my emotions very vividly from when I thought he may have tooth reabsorbtion lesions.

The positive here is that Artie now has a positive diagnosis so appropriate treatment can be undertaken.  Your regular vet having been trained by the specialist you saw at least indicates some knowledge, and hopefully they will be up front and honest with you when you go to your appointment about who will be best to treat Artie.  The surgery does sound complex because of the risks from any tooth fragments left in the jaw so specialist surgery is often advised.  You sound like you know your vets well and that is good.  

Your managing to keep Artie eating when he is in so much pain is an achievement and has to help with any treatment he needs as he will be healthier and stronger if he is well nourished.  Mouse almost stopped eating all together at one point his mouth was so sore - I was a negligent cat parent when he was first with me.   Fingers crossed once Artie has the necessary treatment for the tooth reabsorbtion he will be one happy and pain free cat, and perhaps if the pain he has had in his mouth is relieved that will help with his IBS too.   (I can't help but wonder the same as others do about the link between different auto immune diseases).

Lots of vibes for Artie, and for you helping him through this @Artiemom  .   

BTW, I don't often brush Mouse's teeth with paste now, but he will regularly lick the enzyme tooth paste from my fingers.  As the enzyme paste has a significant effect even when not brushed on this might be worth trying.  See if your vet has any sample packs you could try - that's what I had when I first had to start brushing Mouse's teeth.
 

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:hugs: I'm so sorry to read of this. Poor Artie seems to have one thing after another :(

I've no experience with this, but sending lots of mega :vibes: :vibes: :vibes: :vibes: :vibes: :vibes: :vibes: :vibes: :vibes: :vibes: :vibes: :vibes: :vibes: :vibes: :vibes: :vibes: :vibes: :vibes: :vibes: :vibes: :vibes: :vibes: :vibes: :vibes: :vibes: :vibes: :vibes: :vibes: :vibes: :vibes: :vibes: :vibes: :vibes: :vibes: :vibes: :vibes:

For what it's worth, Plaque Off can be added to food instead of water. That's how I give it to Asha. As she's so young, it's a little hard to know if it's working or not though. I guess time will tell.
 
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artiemom

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Thanks MServant and Columbine!

I looked up Plaque Off. It is a combination of seaweed and brewer's yeast. I am not sure how the extra iodine and possible sodium with be with his kidneys.. he is borderline kidney disease. I will have to ask at least one of the Vets about it. Probably the internal medicine Vet.

Yes, My regular Vet is very up front. They do x-rays also for a dental. 

The specialist also gave me the tip to insist on x-rays. 

I feel so bad that this guy is in pain. I kind of had a feeling something was bothering him, but could not put my finger on it. 

He is still a love to me ....  and can be cranky... but what cat isn't.. 

He is an old man...almost 12 years old.

Right now Artie is sleeping in his 'tent": He is in between the folds of a quilt which is on the coach. He loves to hide....

Need to give him his medicine soon; 30 minutes later he can have more food...actually a new can..

He has changed his eating habits. He eats more during the night than during the day. He only eats a small amount for breakfast and does not like left overs....he will starve rather than eat leftovers. 

His regular Vet appointment for evaluation of his teeth is a week from today. 

thanks for the well wishes
 
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Columbine

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Ugh - I'd forgotten about his kidneys :( Definitely run it past your vet before trying. I've got a feeling the enzyme toothpaste/gel MServant uses is also seaweed based :slant:

You might find something like this a safer bet http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000ZN4CJC/?tag=&tag=thecatsite
I was looking for an antibacterial one (we have them over here - impregnated with silver to create the antibacterial element), but that was the closest I could find on Amazon. Your vet might know of the sort I mean.
 

mservant

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With Artie being a more mature cat, and possible borderline issues with his kidneys I would talk carefully with your vet before trying anything like L Lysine - that could be more risky for his overall health than any tooth cleaning products.  If you haven't read this thread it is worth taking a look, and reading the linked article before talking with your vet.

Honestly, you noticedc something with Artie at a stage way before when I did with Mouse, and cats hide their pain so well it can be really difficult to know when something is up.   Do not feel bad about this, Artie needs you to be feeling strong and calm as that is what will help him to get through this - he will feel anxious and worried if he senses such things in you.  Pamper him all you like this week, and let him pamper you back too (when he isn't holed up in that snug sounding tent of his)!  

 

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I highly recommend the dental specialist at the expensive hospital (you know the one). He's a great knowledgable board certified vet. My previous cat had FORLs and the vet was able to remove the bad ones and give all the remaining teeth a good (and much needed) cleaning. I haven't needed to use him for the current two cats. Both cats get their teeth brushed so hopefully they won't need a cleaning any time soon.
 
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artiemom

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I highly recommend the dental specialist at the expensive hospital (you know the one). He's a great knowledgable board certified vet. My previous cat had FORLs and the vet was able to remove the bad ones and give all the remaining teeth a good (and much needed) cleaning. I haven't needed to use him for the current two cats. Both cats get their teeth brushed so hopefully they won't need a cleaning any time soon.
Thanks.... I will definitely keep this in mind. Yes, we do know which one we are talking about....that was an option form the IM Vet, but when I mentioned my own Vet's name, she said it was ok....

I  will see how his regular Vet feels. She is super honest with me.

She has not seen Artie since she sent me to the specialist. I think it will be good for her to see him at a pretty good point..I mean he is eating, bright, alert, healthy looking except for his teeth. He is also very calm. 

His weight is stable!

So it will be for her to see him at a pretty good point in his life. His kidney values are good also! 

The grain free, novel protein diet has really helped him. 

He is almost a different cat. Such a difference from the last time I saw her when I was in tears because I knew something was seriously wrong with him. When she explained about IBD and the possibility of lymphoma, before biopsy, I broke down. She has been very good with him. The clinic is also pretty highly regarded by some of the volunteers at the humane society also. 

My cousin ran into a volunteer in the grocery store, buying cat food for her own cat. This woman went on and on about how good this clinic is. 

 I will find out on Thursday... I will keep you updated...
 

jenny82

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Thanks MServant and Columbine!

I looked up Plaque Off. It is a combination of seaweed and brewer's yeast. I am not sure how the extra iodine and possible sodium with be with his kidneys.. he is borderline kidney disease. I will have to ask at least one of the Vets about it. Probably the internal medicine Vet.

Yes, My regular Vet is very up front. They do x-rays also for a dental.

The specialist also gave me the tip to insist on x-rays.

I feel so bad that this guy is in pain. I kind of had a feeling something was bothering him, but could not put my finger on it.

He is still a love to me ....  and can be cranky... but what cat isn't..

He is an old man...almost 12 years old.

Right now Artie is sleeping in his 'tent": He is in between the folds of a quilt which is on the coach. He loves to hide....

Need to give him his medicine soon; 30 minutes later he can have more food...actually a new can..

He has changed his eating habits. He eats more during the night than during the day. He only eats a small amount for breakfast and does not like left overs....he will starve rather than eat leftovers.

His regular Vet appointment for evaluation of his teeth is a week from today.

thanks for the well wishes
He sounds just like my 11 year old female cat Mia...she was recently diagnosed with IBD, 2 resorptive teeth, and bordeline kidney disease.  She had been to the vet less than a year ago and had none of these issues then.  She also eats more at night and hates leftovers!  We are trying to get some weight back on her now because it took awhile to get the IBD diagnosis and proper treatment, but we plan to have her resorptive teeth removed in about a month.  I hope it's not too painful until then.
 

denice

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I don't think lysine would help with this.  Llysine works by suppressing an amino acid that the herpes virus needs to replicate, it sets things up so that the virus is starved and goes back dormant again.  
 
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