Need some help and guidance with two semi ferals

I need some guidance and support; this might be a little long. I never had a cat; I have two dogs.  This past summer a stray mother calico cat had two kittens and brought them to my garden.  My teenage daughter started feeding her.  When she went to pet them, she got scratched and they disappeared.  The mother showed up with one kitten weaned weeks later.  I have no idea what happened to the other kitten  It worried me, so I began feeding them.  I asked around and someone told me they are just feral cats and one neighbor told me she had the kittens in a wood pile in her yard over the summer.  I called a rescue group (all of them!) and the one recommended tnr and did it for me provided I'd care for them as outdoor cats. They were wonderful people and I agreed I would help. I bought a dog house, insulated it, filled it with straw like recommended and put a wool and fleece blanket on top.  I fed them every morning and evening and all was fine, until 2 toms started hanging around and it scared them.  And me!   I started letting the cats in to eat so there was no food outside to attract  them.  The mom cat would only come in if I left the door open and as winter came I knew I had to find a better way.  I had an old doggie door in the area that we never used so I opened it and taped up the door and taped up a split piece of bubble wrap  there instead so they could learn to use it quickly.  The kitten learned it in a couple days prodding him with toys.  The mother wasn't so easy so I opened the regular door for her and closed it at one point and she learned then how to use the cat door to get out and eventually back in.  So, they'd come in, eat, sometimes take a nap and leave.  They sometimes slept in at night too.  I bought  two litter boxes and the kitten learned it within in two days; I am not sure if the mother uses it  yet but no one has made a mistake on the rugs or floors yet, so I assume she does use it.   I was thrilled they were coming around as my goal is to domesticate them so I will be able to handle them at one point to get them to the vet, etc when they need to go.  I am not able to trap them. So, all was fine until one of the Tom's came in; I shooed him out..  He now hangs around my house although he hides when he sees me.  He looks healthy and clean.  I can't take in another cat.  I have no intention of feeding him or trapping him.  But at this point I don't know how to keep him out of my house.  Will he move on if he gets no food here?  I hear him hunting at night sometimes between me and my neighbors.  I don't think my cats hunt.  I once gave them a realistic mouse toy that squeeked with the slightest touch and they were afraid of it.   To make a long story shorter, I have 2 cats, only one of whom I can pet (the mom when she tells me it's ok) and an adorable 6 month old orange striped kitten who loves to stay inside all day and night.  I bought him a cat tree and a bunch of toys and he loves it.  He sleeps in the little boxes and lays out on the couch and plays on that tree condo every day.  He will play with me with a rope toy but still is shy.  I can't touch him and I don't try to.  So my goal is to let them stay as indoor cats if they like it but for now the door is wide open for going outside too.  How do I get rid of the Toms?  Sorry if I sound cold per the Toms, but my husband has had it with me and the new cats; I am with them most of the day.  I am trying to please everyone but I know the limits and his.  So, my question is, will the toms move on to better grounds if they continue to get no food here?  And my second question is can a mother cat and her son live a happy existence indoors or is it better to let them roam?  I don't want to attract anymore cats here.  I have two dogs already and it would just be too much for us.  On top of this, my husband informed me he may be transferring jobs out of state and we may have to move this year.  Third question, what is better for these cats; taking them with us or finding new homes for them in this area?  They will probably never live with the dogs and always have separate quarters.  I don't even know how to bring them as I can't even touch them.  I am hoping that changes but as I understand it, it is up to the cat to decide that and they'll let me know when they're ready?  As you can see, I am clueless about cats but am trying to do the best I can for them.  Thanks for any advice anyone can give me.

If you allow the Mom to come and go inside and outside, the toms will continue to follow.  Since the are no longer looking to mate with her, they are now just looking for food.  They can smell the food either on her body or in her stool.  The best thing you can do is to keep the Mom and her kitten inside 24/7.  It can be done.  It takes time and patience.  I brought a feral/stray cat into my home over 2 years ago.  It was a huge undertaking, but one I do not ever regret.  It took the cat a solid year to be ok living inside and to learn to coexist with my resident cat and dog.  Now all get along well and he is just the sweetest cat.  There are lots and lots of tips I can give:

First off, you really do need to trap the tom cats.  They will not stop coming around and they will continue to fight at night.  Since they do appear to hunt very well, you could still do TNR on them and not feed them.  SHutting down their hormones will not only stop the spread of so many cats in this world, but it will also stop the toms from fighting and wandering.  The kindest thing you can do is to TNR them.

Here are some suggestions to socialize Mom and the kitten.

1.  The cats will need a room of their own.  Often a spare bedroom is used.  The room needs to be cat proofed.  If there is a bed in the room, it needs to lay flat on the floor or picked up.  Under a bed or large furniture is the first place a cat will run to hide.  You do not want the cat in a place where if necessary you must be able to reach the cat.  So also blocking off behind other large furniture.  By giving them a room of their own it allows them to gradually get used to your home and the sounds and scents.  Inside the room, you will need at least one litter box.  On an opposite side of the room, you will need a place to feed. 

2.  Do provide appropriate hiding spots for the cats.  A cat carrier is a great one as when the cat needs to go to the vet, he will be used to the carrier.  Also cats trees by a window ( always keep the window close and watch for strings or cords on blinds/curtains) are great for climbing, sleeping and hiding.  You also can use an old box with a cozy blanket. 

3.  Start by visiting the cats often.  Keep you gaze down or over the tops of their heads.  Feral/stray cats often do not like direct eye contact.  Sit on the floor at their level so you do not loom over them.  Talk softly.  You also can play soft music 24/7 to help calm them.  Feliway diffusers are very helpful too.  The phermones they emit help to calm cats.  When you visit, try bringing a special yummy treat.  Make it extra yummy like plain cooked chicken, canned tuna or salmon.  They may not eat it in your presence, but still offer it. 

4.  Start a daily routine.  Feeding in the morning, followed by some social time.  If you are home during the day, visit as often as you can.  Start with short visits and work up.  Always announce yourself when you are coming into the room. 

5.  Be prepared for the cats to yowl, howl, cry and try to escape when they are first in the room.  They may do this for 3-7 days.  It does get better. 

6.  Do not allow them out of the room for quite some time.  They may need a month or longer.  This room is considered their "safe room".  A place where they are always safe from other humans or other animals.  It makes it easier to allow them access to the rest of your house when you can safely handle them.  You do not want to let them out too soon where Mom cat will run out and hide under the sofa. 

7.  As for petting.  I use a pet petter that I make myself.  I take an old wand toy and use just the wand (a dowel rod would work too).  I cover the end with an old sock and use duct tape to make it stick.  I then attach a piece of soft flannel to make it soft.  I start by allowing the cat to just sniff it.  I might leave it on the floor of the room for a day or two.  Maybe even with a bit of catnip on it.  Next I hold it and playfully move it back and forth on the ground.  At first when you raise it the cat might freak.  Yet, if you can have them rear facing and then do not see it, they may allow a gentle touch to the back side.  Start slowly and use it on the easier cat (the kitten ) first.  Mom cat might learn by watching the kitten enjoy some pets.  I will attach a picture of this for you.

Thanks for your thoughtful reply!  Very appreciated.  Guess I will have to call the rescue about helping me to trap the toms.  The one who tried to come in that I chased away hasn't tried to come in again but I'm sure he will when he's hungry enough.  Would a feral cat try to get in someone's house?  I think he must be a stray or someone is feeding him somewhere.  Something is too friendly about him.

As for a room for the cats, I built an apt. off of my house for my dad when he was old and getting sickly.  He passed away last year, so I have an empty apartment attached to my house. This is where the cats come in and stay. My dogs are in the main part of the house where we live.  Just a stroke of luck on their part that I have this empty apartment now for them to use.  As for petting them,  I can pet the mother cat; she also meows.  She's probably just a semi feral; she's very skiddish and I am very careful when I pet her; a few seconds and that's it.  She head butts my leg and rubs against me sometimes and when she's in trouble she usually runs up to me outside. If I put  my hand out to her, 80% of the time she will come over and let me pet her, but again, just for a few seconds; 2 or 3 strokes and that's it.  

Her son is 6 mos old, he was born outside and raised feral by her.  But I've been feeding and working with him for months now.  I can't pet him, but I can play with him with a wand chaser.  He loves toys, unlike his mother, who won't play with them.  He has stayed inside my home (the apt) for the last 72 hours straight on his own accord. He uses the kitty litter box, sleeps on the couch and he doesn't hide when I come in.  The mom comes and goes but has been here for the last 24 hours with just a 15 minute visit outside today.  She also sleeps on the couch and I think she must now use the litter box also as she hasn't made one mistake in the house.  I clean the litter everyday and there seemed to be a lot in it, so she probably is using it; just have never seen her yet use it.  It's sort of hidden behind a chair and I try to leave them alone as much as possible in the living room and I hang out in the adjoining kitchen for hours at a time.  They are used to me being around.  I always announce when I'm coming in and try not to look them in the eye long; if I find I just did, I usually close my eyes and bow my head cause I read that is a sign of trust for them?  

Anyway, I will call the rescue and see if they'll help me trap the toms; maybe they can release them somewhere else.  As far as locking these cats inside, I am going to give the mother a week and see if she decides she would rather be an indoor cat on her own; her kitten seems to have already decided he likes it in here better than outside and he hasn't left in days.  Sometimes he comes out of the living room and lays near where I am.  He seems to like me being around as long as I don't try to pet him.  I am not sure if the mom is here for him, because of the toms outside or because she likes it here.  I make them very welcome.  I set up a huge cat tree, which the kitten loves.  I set up his toys on there and he knocks them down.  Sometimes he leaves me one by my chair.  He doesn't meow yet; he communicates with noises to his mom only.  But the mom has been a meower since the beginning; so she was probably a stray but just became semi feral by being outside on her own too long.  She's an incredibly good mother.  That's what first impressed me about her.  She's a smallish cat but she is so good to her son.  They are very affectionate towards each other and she always has to know where he is, cleans him and plays with him (they do a kung fu looking thing; so funny).  I never had a cat before and am more of a dog person, but these two won me over and I'm trying to make it work for their sakes.  If I can get them domesticated, I can take them with me if we move.  If not, I will have to find someone with a colony willing to take them in.  Not an easy task.  Even as a stray, every shelter in the area told me they're full and to not bring them there.  That's when I decided to tnr them; had to choice; no one would take them.  If they ever come around to being domesticated cats, they will be awesome; they are smart and funny and very sweet and loving.  They just need to get over the terror and anxiety I think. I give them cat anxiety drops in their water and I think that it helps.  I think I need some people anxiety drops, cause this has been quite the experience so far ;-)   Thanks again for your reply and help.

You're doing such a wonderful thing for mom & son (& will be soon for the Toms!).

I'm in agreement w @shadowsrescue....the toms will be much better off -& less pesky - if they're neutered! Plus since you're moving - you won't be passing along the problem to the neighborhood of more kittens in the area. Because the toms will indeed produce tons of kittens (many of which won't survive) if not neutered. So glad you can get a TNR group to help you! If they truly are feral toms, it's likely no shelter would take them, and if they did it's a huge likelihood they'd be euthanized. So best thing you can do is TNR them. Feeding them & providing shelter for them would be wonderful, but if it's going to start Workd War 3 in your house AND you're moving I guess you shouldn't feed. Hopefully they'll continue to hunt - and perhaps even fall in with another colony that has a caretaker.

And the answer is yes - the toms very likely will come in to get food if hungry & curious enough. We've had totally feral cats who were hungry enough (until we started TNRing & feeding) that would go up onto our neighbor's deck to eat her dog's food (even though that meant dealing with her VERY large dog & the fact that the neighbors use the deck often.

And I'd say the son has absolutely already chosen you What a wonderful thing that you've got that apartment to use while you continue to socialize! And in my opinion, giving the mom free reign to go in & out, she'll likely continue to go in & out, so if the only indicator you have as to whether or not she wants to be a healthy, indoor kitty that doesn't know hunger or freezing temps, etc - is if never goes back out--that probably won't happen. She doesn't see it as a "choice" - she now sees it as a wonderful, warm, hunger-satisfying addiction to her life. So while she has the option, she'll probably keep going in & out. But you've become the primary provider that keeps her from freezing AND starving --and if you move & don't take her, she'll likely have a VERY rough time of it if both of those are removed from her life!!! I'm in agreement w @shadowsrescue -- it's best for her (& for her son, since they're obviously quite bonded!) is to shut her in for good & keep working on socialization as ShadiwsRescue described. You'll be very likely tripling or quadrupling her lifespan--keeping this wonderful pair together --and very likely eventually getting a wonderful new companion (& the knowledge you saved her from starving after you move will feel GOOD! You'll worry about her non-stop after you move! And moving her to another colony very likely won't work - she'll try to find her way back to her old territory.

And my bet is you'll be amazed at how your hubby will come around once he gets to know the pair (once they're indoors). My hubby was also 100% (he'd probably say 1,000%!!!!) a dog person who really didn't "get" (or care for cats. And now that he's gotten to know how funny & full of personality --each unique just like people--(be I came into our relationship with kitties - so it was kind Of "love me love my cats") ---he's a complete cat convert!!!!!!

I agree with Kittychick that if you give Mom cat a choice of in or out, she will choose both.  If you truly want her to have the best chance at life, inside is best for her.  Since you can already pet her, she is definitely not truly feral.  Most like she was is a stray that became feral like from living on her own.  It will take her time to adjust, but I bet she will adjust.  She may always be skittish inside and not like when others come over, but her life will be safe and warm.

If you move and do not take her, she will have a hard time surviving.  Even if you move her to a new colony, she will try hard to get back to her original home.  That is a cats nature.  Then she will have to only hunt for food and her shelter will be gone too.  Who knows what will happen to her.  If you bring her in now and work with her, it will be much easier to take her with you to a new place.

I used liquid Composure Max to help with the feral/stray cat I brought inside.  It really helped him to calm down.  I don't know where you are located, but in the US  you can find it cheapest on Amazon.  Pet stores sell calming treats, but you often need to use 3 or more 2x a day.  Some cats don't like the taste of the treats.  I found the liquid really easy to mix into wet food 2x a day.  It is a nonsedating calming supplement that helps a cat be more receptive of their environment by calming them down.  That along with the Feliway diffuser really helped. 

The toms really do need to be neutered.  Even if they are someone's cat, it is very irresponsible to allow them to wander un neutered.  They are just producing more and more kittens.  Hopefully the rescue group will help out again and these boys can get taken care of.  Thank you for all you have done!

Thanks for all the advice; I closed the cat flap and they are both inside; -)  They are both alseep on the couch and haven't noticed yet.  I expect trouble from the mama when she wakes up.  Hope she doesn't freak out on me. Will she try to attack me? What am I supposed to do?  Sorry if I sound like a wimp, but I saw those two Toms fight it out and it was darn scary how vicious they got.  I am hoping she just goes and hides; then I can just  turn out the lights and leave her be for the night.  So nice to be able to leave wet food down not worrying about the Toms' and who knows what coming inside when I leave tonite. 

 I will call the rescue tomorrow about the Toms.  I dont' know if there is one or two here.  I think they will be easy to catch as they are probably hungry and may even enjoy some attention and being indoors from the cold.  

Thanks for your replies; they were really helpful in giving me direction and courage to do the right thing.  I'll keep you posted.  I will look for those calming agents you recommend on Amazon.

She may freak out, but doubtful she will attack you.  Just be sure that the room is cat proofed.  You want her to have a safe place to hide, but not a place that you cannot reach.  You don't want her under beds or under furniture ( couches, chairs, large bookcases,etc..)  unless you can handle her and get her out.  Do provide  some safe places for her to sleep or hide even old cardboard boxes that  are turned towards a wall.  Try to stay calm yourself.  Play some soft calming music and just leave it on all night.  Most likely she will yowl, howl and try her darnest to get out.  Be sure that when you enter, she cannot escape outside.  You may need some baby gates or other baricade.  You have to be really diligent in not letting her outside.  It may take a week to adjust.  Just try to calm her and give her lots of attention, special yummy snacks and make her inside world very inviting.  A cat tree by a closed window would be nice.

Try some catnip as she might like that with a toy or scratching mat. 

I wish you the best.  It may not be easy at first, but I do think it's worth a try.  Just be extra sure her area is safe and that she cannot hurt herself or get stuck any where.  You don't want her stuck under a chair or couch where she may get hurt. 

As always - perfect advice from @ShadowsRescue

You're well on your way to saving TWO lives!!!! That was a big step and I'm sure I speak for everyone when I say we're SO proud you did! Particularly as someone who's not really used to kitties

The chances are EXTREMELY slim she's going to come at you at all. If anything - she'll run and hide. The tom cats go at each other because they're battling for territory, food and females. As for Momma - at best, since she knows you, she'll be fine with you, at worst she'll be scared and hide. As @ShadowsRescue  said, give her as few places to hide as possible (and cats can get into REALLY tiny spaces - you'd be amazed. 

The best thing you can do while she's getting used to being indoors is just be there - let her get used to you being in a space together. Sit where she (and her son) are and just talk softly - when I'm socializing I like to read aloud, or take work into the kitty room and talk about it to them. Soft, feminine voice is best. And leave a radio on softly - something soothing like NPR is what I use (we also have a tv in our kitty room - so ours we socialize get a lot of HGTV). 

And come here and ask questions! Lots of us are happy to answer as much asa we can