Oscar is really, really sick...

Some of you may already know Oscar.

He was a stray that was abandoned by his previous owners around May 2015. I adopted him just before it started snowing. He's been to the vet a few times since.

He's FIV positive, FIP positive (we suspect it's clinical FIP, though I can't confirm it yet) and has very severe diabetes. He's on 3 units of insulin (Novalin N) 4 times a day now. He's a very skinny 8 pound cat.

Due to his extremely poor health, our vet has brought up euthanasia as an option. He doesn't seem to be suffering yet. We have to decide if we want to put him to rest before that starts.

Does anyone know how to minimize any pain or suffering he may be going through?

I am so sorry, poor little man. I think that giving him a very health diet will help. I would feed him a high quality canned food, I recommend Nature's Variety canned food. If you can try to feed him a commercial raw food. 

Thank you for taking care of him and showing him love. 

I am so glad Oscar has you to love and care for him!  I'm really sorry you're having to go through all this, though.  I wish I had words of wisdom for you or could answer your question, but I don't.

FIP, omg. I'm so sorry to hear this. I'm so glad he's had you love him and take care of him, even if it's only been a month or two.

One of the saddest things I ever had to deal with was going to my next door neighbors and demanding they take care of their dying cat that of course decided to come to my house and lay in our front bushes right along the walkway. They were perfectly willing to just let him wander off to die alone in the open where any passing stray dog or other animal could have made his last minutes nothing but unbearable misery.

Thank you for taking in Oscar even though it is sad he has all of these issues his last moments will be with someone that offers comfort and love. Which even if you take the cats needs out of the picture shows the kind of human being your are. And you are a good one.

I'm so sorry that Oscar is so sick. I don't know how painful those feline diseases are, but he's not suffering anything because of the diabetes. It's the silent disease. Just make sure he's getting an all protein diet, maybe the new refrigerator meats. I checked in the grocery store today, and all the canned foods, including Fancy Feast, are only 10% -11% protein. That's way too many carbohydrates for a diabetic cat. The liver converts the carbs to sugar and causes the diabetes. The baby food meats were all meat. I checked those, too.

Novalin N isn't the best insulin to use.  Did the vet say why he / she chose it? A long acting insulin such as Lantus (glargine) or ProZinc are better choices. You can ask the vet about these.

I don't know how FIV / FIP affects the diabetes, if at all. Someone on the FDMB board may have had a cat in a similar health status. Were you able to post over there for support and help?

DreamerRose said:

 
I'm so sorry that Oscar is so sick. I don't know how painful those feline diseases are, but he's not suffering anything because of the diabetes. It's the silent disease. Just make sure he's getting an all protein diet, maybe the new refrigerator meats. I checked in the grocery store today, and all the canned foods, including Fancy Feast, are only 10% -11% protein. That's way too many carbohydrates for a diabetic cat. The liver converts the carbs to sugar and causes the diabetes. The baby food meats were all meat. I checked those, too.

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The Fancy Feast Classic / Gourmet varieties are actally fine to feed to a diabetic cat. They are low in carbs. http://www.felinediabetes.com/glutenfree.htm Fancy Feast is low in protein, though. Most bands you find in the supermarket are. Pet stores sell better quality foods. There are brands of low carb but high protein canned foods a diabetic cat can eat. Nature's Variety Instinct (except fhe Pride by Instinct ones) is one brand. This popular food chart can help the OP find a low carb (under 10%) canned food: http://catinfo.org/docs/FoodChartPublic9-22-12.pdf

I'm so sorry to hear this. I don't have any experience of FIP, hopefully someone with more knowledge will be online soon.

I have 2 FIV+ cats at the moment and I used to have a third. This disease can be managed on it's own, there is no reason that an FIV+ cat can't have a long and happy life. Again, I don't know how FIP is going to effect this.

When my third FIV+ cat had to be PTS we knew it was time because all he did was lay in his bed all day, had no interest in eating (Had to be syringe fed for the last few days) and needed to be carried to his litter box. It's a heart breaking decision, you have to think about the cats quality of life as well as whether or not he is in any pain. Here is an article about this.

 [article="29662"]When Is It Time Making The Difficult Decision​[/article]  

I'm glad Oscar met you when he did, thank you so much for all you are doing for him.

You're a kind soul to take care of Oscar.  Your story made me cry one of my contacts out.  I've worn hard contacts for ages and at the first sign of tears they're on my cheeks. I guess I should either quit crying o much or switch to soft lenses.

Is that Oscar in your avatar?  He's a brave boy.

Thank you so much for taking care of this cat.

This is terrible news!

FIV and diabetes is not the worst and is manageable, but what's with the FIP??!

How was this concluded?

You are aware that there are no diagnostic tests?

Thank you all for your kinds words.

@LTS3 Thank you for the advice. We are going to a specialist for Oscar and hope we can do something for him still. I'll look into the food and try to get some good ones.

@LavishSqualor Yes, that is him. Thanks to his broken teeth, he has a bit of a smirk to him.

@catwoman707 The vet has apparently found some traces of feline coronavirus and over the week that he was with the clinic, has somehow "confirmed" that Oscar is FIP+.

I've fed him a little more than the vet told me to (shhhh, nobody tell) and he seems a lot happier.

I hope a specialist can help I've never heard of giving insulin 4 times a day. And a starting dose of 3 units can pack a pretty hard punch to a newly diagnosed diabetic who also has other health issues.

I suggest feeding Oscar as much as he wants. He's super hungry because of the unregulated diabetes. You may need to feed as much as 4 or 5 cans of those little cans of Fancy Feast daily to satisfy Oscar's tummy. A brand that comes in 5.5 oz or larger size would be more economical. I think Fri skies has a few low carb varieties. Check the food chart I linked above. The vet doesn't need to know how much or what kind of food you are feeding

RionKatt said:

Thank you all for your kinds words.

@LTS3
Thank you for the advice. We are going to a specialist for Oscar and hope we can do something for him still. I'll look into the food and try to get some good ones.

@LavishSqualor
Yes, that is him. Thanks to his broken teeth, he has a bit of a smirk to him.

@catwoman707
The vet has apparently found some traces of feline coronavirus and over the week that he was with the clinic, has somehow "confirmed" that Oscar is FIP+.

I've fed him a little more than the vet told me to (shhhh, nobody tell) and he seems a lot happier.

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Out of curiosity, is the vet that is saying it's FIP the same one that said to feed him so little? And why on earth would she be asking you to still restrict food to a cat that she feels is terminally ill?? That just sounds cruel.

I think a lot of cats test positive for corona virus from what I've read, but they don't all develop FIP. What symptoms is she saying that he has of FIP, and did she say if it was wet or dry?

I'm really REALLY glad to hear you're going to a specialist. And please, do feed him more. I normally wouldn't blatantly say to go against a vet's advice, but her advice was ludicrous.

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE feed Oscar as much as he can eat!  And I hope you realize what a great Cat Mom or Cat Daddy you are to take him to a specialist.  His photo in your avatar just breaks my heart. 

Donutte said:

Out of curiosity, is the vet that is saying it's FIP the same one that said to feed him so little? And why on earth would she be asking you to still restrict food to a cat that she feels is terminally ill?? That just sounds cruel.

I think a lot of cats test positive for corona virus from what I've read, but they don't all develop FIP. What symptoms is she saying that he has of FIP, and did she say if it was wet or dry?

I'm really REALLY glad to hear you're going to a specialist. And please, do feed him more. I normally wouldn't blatantly say to go against a vet's advice, but her advice was ludicrous.

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I completely agree, most cats do test positive for corona virus, it's extremely common.

There is no way to conclude FIP, the closest a vet can get is when there is tummy fluid built up it can be drawn out and examined/tested and can highly indicate FIP, but otherwise diagnosis is symptom based, and Oscar has other issues that may have similar symptoms including uncontrolled diabetes.

Unless there is more, I wouldn't be convinced he has FIP. 

Take it one day at a time with him, carefully monitor that high amt of insulin, and allow him to eat lots of canned, to restrict his food is odd to me.

As everyone stated I am so happy you are taking him to a specialist. I really have serious doubts about the your current vet's competence. As stated, please feed him a high quality raw or canned food, no kibble. I am pulling for the sweet cat. thank you for helping him 

Was reading your other thread and then came here. I'm sorry to hear your little guy is so sick... I don't think FIP can be confirmed 100%, it's just a "we're pretty sure" kind of thing. I'm of the opinion that euthanasia is never too soon once the option comes into the picture, but from what I've read, I wouldn't personally make that decision just yet. Reason I think this is cause, for one FIP isn't 100% confirmed. Also, he seems to have had a pretty shitty go the last few months, since May. He needs lots of good memories - fill him to the brim, with memories and lots of food! It will be a very rewarding experience for you - you're doing and have done such a wonderful thing for this little guy. It sounds like his last family was fed up with his issues and booted him out. You've done nothing by care for him and love him. Good job!

Again, thank you all so much!

I've been feeding him a 3oz can every time he demands food, which is about every 4 hours almost on the dot. He's very punctual like that. Sometimes he'll jump on my bed and headbutt my face till I wake up to feed him.

I've been feeding him the Fancy Feast (of the Classic variety) and Nature's Recipe Grain Free trays. Both come in about 3oz a pop. They aren't very high in protein, so I've been topping them off with some flaked tuna. @LTS3 you may have to teach me on how to use the chart. I thought I could figure it out, but I may not be understanding some terms correctly.

I've been giving him 2 shots of 3 units each, once in the morning and once at night. He usually stays still enough for me to poke him unless I forget to do it right after he finishes eating and have to do it a little after.

The vet referred me to the specialist, but after some quick googling, I think I'll go somewhere else. I may just switch vets altogether. Oscar deserves better.

RionKatt said:

 
The vet referred me to the specialist, but after some quick googling, I think I'll go somewhere else. I may just switch vets altogether. Oscar deserves better.

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He is a lucky boy to have you as his guardian. 

RionKatt said:

He's very punctual like that. Sometimes he'll jump on my bed and headbutt my face till I wake up to feed him.

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That is just so freaking adorable!

I've been feeding him the Fancy Feast (of the Classic variety) and Nature's Recipe Grain Free trays. Both come in about 3oz a pop. They aren't very high in protein, so I've been topping them off with some flaked tuna.

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The Flaked variety is a lot higher in protein (the Seafood and Shrimp is about 80% protein actually). Only bad thing is they are high in phosphorus also. I know that's not good for kitties with kidney disease, not sure about other problems. Plus if you don't want your kitty having see food, the Flaked variety is pretty much out. (Edit: I can't believe I actually typed "see food"; I meant "seafood")

The vet referred me to the specialist, but after some quick googling, I think I'll go somewhere else. I may just switch vets altogether. Oscar deserves better.

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I absolutely agree that you should switch vets. Having your vet tell you to only feed your kitty 132 calories a day is horrible. If your cat was tiny and had a healthy weight of 7 lbs and not active, sure, 132 calories a day might be ok. But your cat's healthy weight is about 10lbs I think you'd said in the other thread. 132 calories a day is like slowly starving him to death.