Ziwipeak canned

lisamarie12

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The rabbit and lamb seem to have larger pieces, but every venison I've checked so far has some small pieces, usually a bit smaller than these:  http://www.ziwipeak.com/bone-in-rabbit-and-lamb-can-cuisine/
The sharpness of the ones in the rabbit and lamb was what made me think twice about feeding it again.



Do they have bone with raw?  Or do you feed bone separately?  I was thinking it could be an issue based on it's sort of unexpected if they're  eating a mince type food, rather than chewing on a chicken neck or something.


The bone in ziwipeak is raw I presume, but I still don't really understand, as I assume the food is processed in some way?  So I wonder if the bone is too.  Really, I have no idea.  
That bone you are finding in ZP had better be raw, cooked bones are dangerous for cats. I would contact the company again. Good luck to you.
 

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I inquired as to the process they use and how that might affect the bone content:

I'm still not really sure what to make of it without some follow up questions.  Here is their response to that:  (I assume this is not bad form, I'm pretty sure this is mostly a copy/paste reply)
 
To make our canned food we start out with all real raw meat, organs, seafood and green lipped mussels then the canned food is retort cooked which means all cans are heated up to approx. 120c for 2 minutes in a large pressure vessel. This is the international canning regulation which all canned foods must comply with whether they are pet food, canned fruit or baby food. The food is therefore not raw in the cans.

We add 3% bone that is finely ground to all our products.   We receive this  already finely ground and mixed with the ground meat.    

It is correct that whole bone when cooked and given to a cat can splinter off and cause issues, whereas a raw bone is stronger and less likely to splinter.  In our process the bone is already minced into small pieces. 
In response to the use of  Tetrasodium Pyrophosphate:
 
With regard to Tetrasodium Pyrophospate(TSPP) ZiwiPeak canned foods are made from a very high meat & organ content recipe and don’t contain fillers, such as rice, grains or potatoes, that would help bind the meat & organs together during the canning process.  TSPP is added to the canned recipes because it interacts with the meat proteins to help them to bind to fat and water so that the entire mixture holds together better. It also provides phosphorous which is an essential mineral in a cat’s diet. We have no evidence that it is toxic in the low inclusion rates that are in our formulations. In addition, the Association of American Feed Control Officials (AAFCO) does not consider this ingredient as toxic, and therefore has no limitations or restrictions for including in pet food formulations.

Any concern over toxicity is coming from test that was done on laboratory rats, where large amounts of TSPP was shown to cause kidney disease. It is important to note that rats are not carnivores, so they do not have the same nutritional needs or issues as dogs and cats. So there is not a direct correlation between any ingredient causing reactions in rats and the same thing occurring in dogs and cats. 

Although there is currently no scientifically-documented evidence that this ingredient has the potential to be toxic to dogs and cats in the amounts included in our formulas, we care about the concerns of our customers and are actively looking for alternatives to TSPP as a binding agent in our canned products.
If we do make changes to the formula in the future to remove TSPP, we will communicate the change through our website, Facebook page, other social media sites and through our retail partners.
 
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missmimz

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I inquired as to the process they use and how that might affect the bone content:

I'm still not really sure what to make of it without some follow up questions.  Here is their response to that:  (I assume this is not bad form, I'm pretty sure this is mostly a copy/paste reply)

In response to the use of  Tetrasodium Pyrophosphate:
They didn't really answer whether or not the bone is raw, but my cats haven't had any issues with the bone pieces and I haven't noticed any large bone pieces that concern me.
 

lisamarie12

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Regarding ZP's response to TSPP: first they are saying TSPP acts as a "binder" - isn't that why they are now using agar agar instead of carrageenan? Agar agar is the binder. As far as adding phosphorus to the diet, ridiculous - the organ meat provides phos, there are plenty of canned foods that don't use TSPP that have more than enough phos.
TSPP is a flavor enhancer primarily, the two reasons ZP gives is entirely lame, I've lost trust in this company, glad I removed ZP from my cats diet.
 

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Hi, and I also have become suspicious re ziwipeak. I have had my cat for a couple of years, and he has in the last 6 months or so started throwing up after eating. It seems that if I feed him more than 1/2 3 oz can of ziwipeak, once a week or so he pukes it out. The other food I used is called Life's Abundance. Maybe, if you have time, check out their site and tell me your opinion of their ingredients. I thought it looked good, but I'm still considering myself a newbie at determining whats good/whats not.

Follow up: As I see lots of folks talking about dissatisfaction with ZP, I see most talking going to raw. I would prefer to stay with canned, if possible. I don't have much room to prepare raw, with adding tauring etc, and budgetwise, even the ZP is killing me. We are 70, trying to think of retiring, and cannot waste a lot of dough on foods like ZP if its going to make our cat ill. I'm planning a trip to the vet this week, for bloodwork, and a look for megacolon. I had one cat long ago diagnosed with megacolon, and it was two surgeries at about $2K each, and then she had to be put down, because her colon got so elastic it was verging on tearing. THAT was a trauma I would not like to repeat.

So, I guess I'd like to ask for your suggestion as to a good canned food that is +/- equal to the composition of ZP, with more transparency with ingredient labeling and 'safer' for my cat, Artie!

Thanks. I hope this isn't too much of an imposition.

Fred (aka The Duck!)
 
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missmimz

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Hi, and I also have become suspicious re ziwipeak. I have had my cat for a couple of years, and he has in the last 6 months or so started throwing up after eating. It seems that if I feed him more than 1/2 3 oz can of ziwipeak, once a week or so he pukes it out. The other food I used is called Life's Abundance. Maybe, if you have time, check out their site and tell me your opinion of their ingredients. I thought it looked good, but I'm still considering myself a newbie at determining whats good/whats not.

Follow up: As I see lots of folks talking about dissatisfaction with ZP, I see most talking going to raw. I would prefer to stay with canned, if possible. I don't have much room to prepare raw, with adding tauring etc, and budgetwise, even the ZP is killing me. We are 70, trying to think of retiring, and cannot waste a lot of dough on foods like ZP if its going to make our cat ill. I'm planning a trip to the vet this week, for bloodwork, and a look for megacolon. I had one cat long ago diagnosed with megacolon, and it was two surgeries at about $2K each, and then she had to be put down, because her colon got so elastic it was verging on tearing. THAT was a trauma I would not like to repeat.

So, I guess I'd like to ask for your suggestion as to a good canned food that is +/- equal to the composition of ZP, with more transparency with ingredient labeling and 'safer' for my cat, Artie!

Thanks. I hope this isn't too much of an imposition.

Fred (aka The Duck!)
ZP is fairly fatty, so that could be related to the vomiting. But def do a full work up. I feed ZP canned still as a snack, but I'm actually switching to Feline Naturals. Which is significantly cheaper than ZP and probably better quality.

https://www.chewy.com/feline-natural-chicken-venison-feast/dp/132452
 

cluckingduck

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First of all, Hi, and I hope you can also suggest a change in diet for my cat.

I'm having problems with my cat throwing up after eating any more than 1/2 three-oz can of ZP, both venison/fish/ lamb, etc. I have read several posts from folks not exactly happy with ZP, and wonder if you know of or can recommend a change to a different canned food that might have 'all the right stuff' under a different brand. I also use Life's Abundance wet food, and other than the fish content, it looks appropriate to me, but hey! What do I know! I'm the one looking for advice.


So, any suggestions as to a high-quality, transparent in labeling, tasty and healthy food that I might switch to? I asked missmimz the same stuff, but two heads are at least as good as one.

Any recommendations?
Thanx,
Fred & Artie
(aka cluckingduck)
 

cluckingduck

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thanks for the quick reply. I had also asked LisaMarie about the same thing, but I'm going to try (today) your suggestion. I'm not going to 'tell' the vet what to do, although I'm pretty savvy medically. I will simply put out the problem and see if she recommends what I HOPE she recommends. I live in the sticks (about 25 miles PAST the sticks) and it can be hit and miss with vets up here. I she says "switch to Hill's" I'll be switching vets. :)

Chewys has it on sale for $25.08 with free ship over $49, so I'm gonna gamble and go for 2. (If Artie hates it, I can donate it to a local adoption agency. (Humboldt Animal Rescue Team).

Thanks for the tip. I'll be chatting with you soon, and let you know of the vet trip, and the food choice.

Always the BEST....
Cluckingduck
 
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missmimz

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thanks for the quick reply. I had also asked LisaMarie about the same thing, but I'm going to try (today) your suggestion. I'm not going to 'tell' the vet what to do, although I'm pretty savvy medically. I will simply put out the problem and see if she recommends what I HOPE she recommends. I live in the sticks (about 25 miles PAST the sticks) and it can be hit and miss with vets up here. I she says "switch to Hill's" I'll be switching vets. :)

Chewys has it on sale for $25.08 with free ship over $49, so I'm gonna gamble and go for 2. (If Artie hates it, I can donate it to a local adoption agency. (Humboldt Animal Rescue Team).

Thanks for the tip. I'll be chatting with you soon, and let you know of the vet trip, and the food choice.

Always the BEST....
Cluckingduck
Good luck! Lisa Marie may have other suggestions too. Chewy has a good return policy if you end up deciding to return the second case. They have both 3oz cans and 6oz cans. I think the case of 6oz is $38 for 24, which is way less than ZP, but very comparable ingredients wise. They also have a chicken/lamb variety, but Chewy isn't carrying it yet. Feline Natural is a good company. 
 

cluckingduck

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Good luck! Lisa Marie may have other suggestions too. Chewy has a good return policy if you end up deciding to return the second case. They have both 3oz cans and 6oz cans. I think the case of 6oz is $38 for 24, which is way less than ZP, but very comparable ingredients wise. They also have a chicken/lamb variety, but Chewy isn't carrying it yet. Feline Natural is a good company. 
So I've ordered two cases of 3 oz Feline Natural. I found the site (K9 Natural NZ) and checked their calculator, and to 'retain current weight (14 lbs ... Artie is an F5 Savannah) it calls for 6.1 three oz cans per day! Like Prell shampoo. lather, rinse, REPEAT! I think about 9 oz per day should do it. Do you have a 'formula' for feeding amount? It wouldn't hurt artie to lose about 2-2.5 lbs.
Thanks
 
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missmimz

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So I've ordered two cases of 3 oz Feline Natural. I found the site (K9 Natural NZ) and checked their calculator, and to 'retain current weight (14 lbs ... Artie is an F5 Savannah) it calls for 6.1 three oz cans per day! Like Prell shampoo. lather, rinse, REPEAT! I think about 9 oz per day should do it. Do you have a 'formula' for feeding amount? It wouldn't hurt artie to lose about 2-2.5 lbs.
Thanks
I'm not sure about the feeding guidelines. There are a few others that are currently feeding it and may have a better idea. FN is slightly lower in calories than ZP, however, how much your cat will need will vary. I don't feed any canned food exclusively, only as a snack, but it's best to rotate in some other brands too even if your kitty love it. 
 

lisamarie12

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First of all, Hi, and I hope you can also suggest a change in diet for my cat.


I'm having problems with my cat throwing up after eating any more than 1/2 three-oz can of ZP, both venison/fish/ lamb, etc. I have read several posts from folks not exactly happy with ZP, and wonder if you know of or can recommend a change to a different canned food that might have 'all the right stuff' under a different brand. I also use Life's Abundance wet food, and other than the fish content, it looks appropriate to me, but hey! What do I know! I'm the one looking for advice.



So, any suggestions as to a high-quality, transparent in labeling, tasty and healthy food that I might switch to? I asked missmimz the same stuff, but two heads are at least as good as one.


Any recommendations?

Thanx,

Fred & Artie

(aka cluckingduck)
As far as transparency of ingredient sourcing to customers, there really aren't too many companies that care to be that open with consumers, unfortunately.

Bravo offers transparency, their canned food is one I have used. You may want to look into Pet Tao canned food, they are USDA certified organic, available online via their site and also offer transparency, via TAPF's pledge. I would only recommend Pet Tao's canned turkey, the other two contain either grains or carrageenan.

I think Feline Naturals, as missmimz mentioned, is a fine choice, comparable to ZP but better.

Other than the fish in Life's Abundance, the food might be one you could use occasionally in rotation.
 
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cluckingduck

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As far as transparency of ingredient sourcing to customers, there really aren't too many companies that care to be that open with consumers, unfortunately.

Bravo offers transparency, their canned food is one I have used. You may want to look into Pet Tao canned food, they are USDA certified organic, available online via their site and also offer transparency, via TAPF's pledge. I would only recommend Pet Tao's canned turkey, the other two contain either grains or carrageenan.

I think Feline Naturals, as missmimz mentioned, is a fine choice, comparable to ZP but better.

Other than the fish in Life's Abundance, the food might be one you could use occasionally in rotation.
WOW....its more than ZP. NOTE: I just looked at the CatTao site, and it looks like the turkey AND chicken are BOTH without carageenan.

How did you like the bravo? Are you still using it? I might try it.....?
Thanks for the help.
 

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WOW....its more than ZP. NOTE: I just looked at the CatTao site, and it looks like the turkey AND chicken are BOTH without carageenan.

How did you like the bravo? Are you still using it? I might try it.....?
Thanks for the help.
I saw it... The brown rice.
 
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missmimz

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I like Bravo as a company too, but my cats don't like their food. My cats really don't like canned food with veggies in it, so I think that's why they turned their nose up to it 
 

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Good luck! Lisa Marie may have other suggestions too. Chewy has a good return policy if you end up deciding to return the second case. They have both 3oz cans and 6oz cans. I think the case of 6oz is $38 for 24, which is way less than ZP, but very comparable ingredients wise. They also have a chicken/lamb variety, but Chewy isn't carrying it yet. Feline Natural is a good company. 
funny thing. Artie quit puking for a while, but then today, he did it again. There is no sign of any chunks, because we have been running out the ziwipeak venison and fish. He seem to hold the ZP beef ok, but he also has thrown up the lifes abundance. I though it might be to giving him a whole (3 ox) can, so we have been giving him 1/2 can, then within an hour or so, giving him the other 1/2.

I guess its a trip to the vet. Unless you have heard others complaining that ZP is making their cat upchuck also. We DID get a case of feline natural. It looks kinda wierd after the meaty consistency of ZP (its got a lot of 'juice/broth in the can) but I guess that its the way they get all the nutrients in, via their formula?!

Please share any thoughts as to what (medically) might cause an infrequent throwing up? Could we be feeding too much? Artie weighs about 12-14 and has been getting 2 1/2-3 1/2 3 oz cans per day.
Thanks
 
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missmimz

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funny thing. Artie quit puking for a while, but then today, he did it again. There is no sign of any chunks, because we have been running out the ziwipeak venison and fish. He seem to hold the ZP beef ok, but he also has thrown up the lifes abundance. I though it might be to giving him a whole (3 ox) can, so we have been giving him 1/2 can, then within an hour or so, giving him the other 1/2.

I guess its a trip to the vet. Unless you have heard others complaining that ZP is making their cat upchuck also. We DID get a case of feline natural. It looks kinda wierd after the meaty consistency of ZP (its got a lot of 'juice/broth in the can) but I guess that its the way they get all the nutrients in, via their formula?!

Please share any thoughts as to what (medically) might cause an infrequent throwing up? Could we be feeding too much? Artie weighs about 12-14 and has been getting 2 1/2-3 1/2 3 oz cans per day.
Thanks
Vomiting after eating can just be a tolerance issue, esp. if he's only vomiting certain flavors. Def could be the fish if you're feeding the vension and fish. I feed about 1 can of ZP a night and none of my 7 cats have any issues with it. I would def have him checked out by a vet to make sure it's not a medical issue. Not sure how old he is but in older cats vomiting can be a symptom of both hyper-t and kidney disease. Vomiting can also be from hairballs, too. 
 

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Vomiting after eating can just be a tolerance issue, esp. if he's only vomiting certain flavors. Def could be the fish if you're feeding the vension and fish. I feed about 1 can of ZP a night and none of my 7 cats have any issues with it. I would def have him checked out by a vet to make sure it's not a medical issue. Not sure how old he is but in older cats vomiting can be a symptom of both hyper-t and kidney disease. Vomiting can also be from hairballs, too. 
thx for the reply. I have thought that it might be the fish. I see that he has coughed up ziwipeak venison/fish, and lifes abundance which is chicken and shrimp/fish. I'm going to start with hairball Tx, 2 X week.

Also, the ZP page shows THIS for feeding amount:

6kg / 13.2lb
323 grams per day
11 oz
 
Thats just under 4 3oz cans per day.....seems like a lot. When you say you give your cat one can ZP per day, is that in addition to other food? Is your cat 13-14 lbs? Is that, in your opinion, too much per day? The company would love it if my cat ate 4 cans per day, but is it right?

Thanks for the help. PS-his regular "check-up" is in november, so we'll have the vet do whats needed to look for other causes.

Thanks again
Fred
 
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missmimz

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thx for the reply. I have thought that it might be the fish. I see that he has coughed up ziwipeak venison/fish, and lifes abundance which is chicken and shrimp/fish. I'm going to start with hairball Tx, 2 X week.

Also, the ZP page shows THIS for feeding amount:

6kg / 13.2lb
323 grams per day
11 oz
 
Thats just under 4 3oz cans per day.....seems like a lot. When you say you give your cat one can ZP per day, is that in addition to other food? Is your cat 13-14 lbs? Is that, in your opinion, too much per day? The company would love it if my cat ate 4 cans per day, but is it right?

Thanks for the help. PS-his regular "check-up" is in november, so we'll have the vet do whats needed to look for other causes.

Thanks again
Fred
If you can try not to feed any foods with fish and see if that helps. Yes the cats that share the ZP all eat raw food, they just get a small amount of canned at night at as a snack. I rotate between ZP, Feline Naturals, and Weruva. I only use the rabbit and lamb, venison, or beef ZP. 3oz cans are pretty small, so around 4 cans is probably right. It may vary depending on which flavor you feed as each can has slightly different calorie amounts. On average an adult cat needs around 20/cal per pound of weight to maintain their current weight, so your cat would need around 280 calories per day, but that amount may be more or less depending on your cats individual needs. Younger cats may need more than that.  If he's not gaining weight on his current diet, just maintaining his weight then what you're doing is fine. If he's gaining weight or overweight you may way to cut back on how much you're feeding. 
 

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Vomiting after eating can just be a tolerance issue, esp. if he's only vomiting certain flavors. Def could be the fish if you're feeding the vension and fish. I feed about 1 can of ZP a night and none of my 7 cats have any issues with it. I would def have him checked out by a vet to make sure it's not a medical issue. Not sure how old he is but in older cats vomiting can be a symptom of both hyper-t and kidney disease. Vomiting can also be from hairballs, too. 
thanks for the reply
He's about 5 1/2, appears to be pretty healthy. I'm hoping its the fatter ZP products. He is assumed to be a possible F5 Savannah(?) and his coat is medium/short but very coarse, so when he's licking it might be that he is getting some hair. I have a tube of paste, so I'll start giving him an inch or so every 3-4 days. And, yup=I thought it might also be the fish.
My intention is to settle on maybe two foods, and give hime a lifes abundance 1 can a week or so, for the 'treat (he really likes it, but has puked after being given a whole can; thus the half can, followed by a half can later.

You said you feed 1 can of ZP a night. Whats your regular feed amount and schedule? Is one (3 oz) can of ZP the entire diet for one cat per day, or is there more to his/her diet? I've wondered if 8-12 oz a day isn't way too much, but the damn cans say
 
If you can try not to feed any foods with fish and see if that helps. Yes the cats that share the ZP all eat raw food, they just get a small amount of canned at night at as a snack. I rotate between ZP, Feline Naturals, and Weruva. I only use the rabbit and lamb, venison, or beef ZP. 3oz cans are pretty small, so around 4 cans is probably right. It may vary depending on which flavor you feed as each can has slightly different calorie amounts. On average an adult cat needs around 20/cal per pound of weight to maintain their current weight, so your cat would need around 280 calories per day, but that amount may be more or less depending on your cats individual needs. Younger cats may need more than that.  If he's not gaining weight on his current diet, just maintaining his weight then what you're doing is fine. If he's gaining weight or overweight you may way to cut back on how much you're feeding. 
I understand that ZP has some 'raw' elements. We have worried about cross-contamination, as the space we have would be the same place we prepare food. Do you use a 'prepared' raw, like radcat or similar? Are there any frozen or freeze-dried raw foods that contain all of the necessary goodies, like taurine, etc? We might go that way, if it is feasible. We are old and tired, errrr, older and ready to retire, so we are trying to balance realistic care for Artie and time and space. When we leave for a few days, there is no one to give him raw, unless it is pre-prepared.
THanks for all of your help.
Fred & Artie
 
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