Ziwipeak canned

I know there aren't that many people here that feed Ziwipeak, but i just noticed something odd with their ingredients. On their site, as well as all the sites that sell their food, they list the first ingredient as meat (venison, lamb, beef, etc), but on all the cans themselves the first ingredient is broth (venison broth, beef broth, lamb broth) but there isn't anything anywhere online that states what's actually in this broth, or that actually lists the ingredients correctly. 

I emailed the company asking for clarification but so far no word back. For the price of this food, the first ingredient really shouldn't be broth. It looks like from what i can gather this change happened when they removed the carrageenan from the food.

I'm pretty disappointed and annoyed that i just noticed this discrepancy, I thought I'd just mentioned it in case others weren't aware.

The first ingredients on some of the Weruva is broth. I had assume that if it's fish broth, they took a bunch of fish and boiled them--but I'll bet it's like the "spare parts" of the fish--the ones that cannot be eaten and would otherwise be thrown out. I imagine it's something similar for lamb, beef, etc., and I wonder if it's kind of like "liquid meal." The Tiki cat says more explicitely what kind of liquid the food is in, but I think for a lot of food, that is vague.

I hope you hear back soon!

rpandcat said:

 
The first ingredients on some of the Weruva is broth. I had assume that if it's fish broth, they took a bunch of fish and boiled them--but I'll bet it's like the "spare parts" of the fish--the ones that cannot be eaten and would otherwise be thrown out. I imagine it's something similar for lamb, beef, etc., and I wonder if it's kind of like "liquid meal." The Tiki cat says more explicitely what kind of liquid the food is in, but I think for a lot of food, that is vague.

I hope you hear back soon!

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I actually (accidentally) bought a can of the old formula with carrageenan in it and compared the two and the new version of most of the foods has more or the same amount of protein in it, and nothing else really changed, so I an happy about that, but i feel like the company isn't being transparent about the change by not listing it correctly on their website or on sites that sell their food (like Chewy.com). I do hope they respond, and I'll update with their respond just in case others are interested. 

I believe they are all cutting corners to remove carageenan and keep prices level, by switching things around or downsizing tins.

Let me mention something that raised a red flag when I was feeding the cats ZP a couple years ago. 

When I started with ZP, the company was using carrageenan. (I knew a little about carrageenan at that time but not enough to cause me to abandon the food, given the quality of the ZP's ingredients.)  I eventually reduced the amount of ZP - reading more about carrageenan but also due to price and the fact that my cats were kind of itchy on the ZP (I thought maybe it was due to the green lipped  mussels / fish allergy) but I wasn't sure.

I had also emailed ZP about the carrageenan, asked if they would consider at any point removing it and at that time, I was emailed back that they were going to remove the carrageenan, however, that they had to do "food trials w/o carrageenan."  I stopped using ZP.

Some time later - and since I always shop at the same pet food retail store in my neighborhood, I noticed that the labels on the 6oz cans of ZP had changed. I looked at the ingredients and didn't see carrageenan listed.  I decided to give the venison another try and purchased several cans. When I opened all those cans, it had the same gooey stuff as the old formula which contained carrageenan - all the cans. I then went and purchased the smaller 3 oz cans with the old label / carrageenan and it was the same exact consistency, with that jelly / thickener which I assumed was carrageenan.

I emailed ZP, asked about the difference in labeling, that carrageenan wasn't listed but that the food had the same consistency / jelly as the small cans with carrageean, was it the fat of the meat or what? I never received a response back.

I know that per the FDA, pet food manufacturers are allowed to change their formulas but not reflect the change on the ingredient labels for up to six months, however, in this case it seemed it was reverse - the labels were changed but the carrageenan remained.

Of course I can't be 100% sure about this but not receiving any response back and noting the similarities b/t the formulas with and without carrageenan, seemed odd.

And I definitely now will not use any food that contains tetrasodium pyrophosphate - a questionable flavor enhancer that ZP uses.

Anyway, good luck with them - I just don't trust the company any longer.

Interestingly, the tetrasodium pyrophosphate is listed on the ingredient list (for venison canned cat food) on ZP's web site, however, it is not listed on the ingredient list on Chewy's.

Too much Micky-Mousing around with this company.

LisaMarie12 said:

 
Interestingly, the tetrasodium pyrophosphate is listed on the ingredient list (for venison canned cat food) on ZP's web site, however, it is not listed on the ingredient list on Chewy's.

Too much Micky-Mousing around with this company.

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I don't disagree with you. I think the company lacks transparency and we're not the first people to notice this. I have a can of both the old version and the new version, and the new version has tetrasodium pyrophosphate in it. I don't really know anything about tetrasodium pyrophosphate. Chewy, as well as Amazon and OnlyNaturalPet all have the ingredients listed wrong, as the first ingredient in all their canned foods is broth, and has been for probably close to a year. I do rely pretty heavily on their foods though. I feed the air dried, the canned, and i also feed ZP to my dog. I don't really have any complaints about their air dried foods because those seem to be fine and haven't had any changes. I'm not really sure what I would switch to if i stopped feeing ZP because it's become really apparent to me that my cats don't like canned food with veggies in it. I might try and feed 100% raw at some point, but right now I have too many growing kittens that need to eat multiple times a day, and this mama needs some time to do other things besides feed and care for her brood!

 I actually just ordered a case of Hound and Gatos to try because it seems similar to ZP but cheaper (can't find any single cans around here anywhere), and the company seems to have more transparency. I am hoping my cats will like it so I can phase out some or all of the ZP canned. 

Its so disappointing to see these kinds of things happening over and over again with pet food companies. I want to support good companies that produce quality foods, and that seems to be becoming harder and harder to find   

missmimz said:

 
I don't disagree with you. I think the company lacks transparency and we're not the first people to notice this. I have a can of both the old version and the new version, and the new version has tetrasodium pyrophosphate in it. I don't really know anything about tetrasodium pyrophosphate. Chewy, as well as Amazon and OnlyNaturalPet all have the ingredients listed wrong, as the first ingredient in all their canned foods is broth, and has been for probably close to a year. I do rely pretty heavily on their foods though. I feed the air dried, the canned, and i also feed ZP to my dog. I don't really have any complaints about their air dried foods because those seem to be fine and haven't had any changes. I'm not really sure what I would switch to if i stopped feeing ZP because it's become really apparent to me that my cats don't like canned food with veggies in it. I might try and feed 100% raw at some point, but right now I have too many growing kittens that need to eat multiple times a day, and this mama needs some time to do other things besides feed and care for her brood!

 I actually just ordered a case of Hound and Gatos to try because it seems similar to ZP but cheaper (can't find any single cans around here anywhere), and the company seems to have more transparency. I am hoping my cats will like it so I can phase out some or all of the ZP canned. 

Its so disappointing to see these kinds of things happening over and over again with pet food companies. I want to support good companies that produce quality foods, and that seems to be becoming harder and harder to find 

 

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Well that was very insightful from DFA re: ZP and the "special alert" as well as DFA's criteria for choosing foods, very informative - thanks for the link!

I learned about tetrasodium pyrophosphate from TAPF and then doing a Google search on TP / pet food. My main concern, in my situation, is that both cats have sensitive skin and suffer from skin allergies. So when I read that TP can cause hives / allergic reaction in humans, among other things, I'd just prefer to avoid it.

If ZP works for you and all those hungry mouths you have to feed then so be it. No one company can be 100%, I certainly haven't found that nirvana 100% in pet food and I don't expect to although if I had to judge today I'd say Rad Cat comes pretty close. 

And then of course there's always the possibility you find all the "right" companies, things seem to be going great for awhile and then whammo - the cats start boycotting the food!

In case anyone was interested this was Ziwipeak's response to my inquiry about the incorrectly listed "broth" and what is in the "broth"

Thanks for your enquiry regarding broth being listed first on our label and not on our website. Thank you for pointing out this discrepancy.

We are updating our website to reflect the ingredient list on our canned labels, and Only Natural Pet has the same ingredients listed as our website and we will follow this up with them at the same time.  Chewy.com is incorrect and we will follow this up with them also.

 

The reason why broth is listed as the first ingredient is that we use so many different meat and organ types, so therefore no single meat type is added in a proportion greater than the broth.  So therefore the combined total quantity of the meats and organs is much more than the broth.

 

The US petfood regulations state that every ingredient including broth must be listed in descending order.  Every different meat or offal type has to be listed as a separate ingredient.

 

Let me know if you have any further questions.

I'm not really satisfied with that answer, but as previously discussed this company lacks transparency. I'm likely going to phase out ZP cans and transition to mostly homemade raw, which really was my plan anyway.

missmimz said:

 
In case anyone was interested this was Ziwipeak's response to my inquiry about the incorrectly listed "broth" and what is in the "broth"

Thanks for your enquiry regarding broth being listed first on our label and not on our website. Thank you for pointing out this discrepancy.

We are updating our website to reflect the ingredient list on our canned labels, and Only Natural Pet has the same ingredients listed as our website and we will follow this up with them at the same time.  Chewy.com is incorrect and we will follow this up with them also.

 

The reason why broth is listed as the first ingredient is that we use so many different meat and organ types, so therefore no single meat type is added in a proportion greater than the broth.  So therefore the combined total quantity of the meats and organs is much more than the broth.

 

The US petfood regulations state that every ingredient including broth must be listed in descending order.  Every different meat or offal type has to be listed as a separate ingredient.

 

Let me know if you have any further questions.

I'm not really satisfied with that answer, but as previously discussed this company lacks transparency. I'm likely going to phase out ZP cans and transition to mostly homemade raw, which really was my plan anyway.

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So ZP is basically passing the buck to the FDA: although the combined meat parts add up to more than the broth, per the FDA, ZP has to list the broth first. Hmm ... well let's see what the FDA has to say specifically about pet food labeling:

Federal regulations require ingredients be listed on the product label by their common or usual name in descending order of predominance according to weight (21 CFR 501.4). A common or usual name is one that accurately identifies or describes the basic nature of the ingredient (21 CFR 502.5). FDA has recognized the definitions as they appear in the Official Publication of AAFCO as the common or usual name for animal feed ingredients including pet food (Compliance Policy Guide 7126.08). There is only one exception to the requirement to list the common or usual name on the label--when the ingredient is part of a collective name. Regulation 21 CFR 501.110 describes the use of collective names. The following are acceptable collective names: animal protein products, forage products, grain products, plant protein products, processed grain byproducts and roughage products. These collective names may be used in the ingredient list for livestock and poultry feeds, but not pet foods.

http://www.fda.gov/AnimalVeterinary/Products/AnimalFoodFeeds/IngredientsAdditives/default.htm

"According to weight".

Amazon also has outdated ingredients for ZP canned (carrageenan); take a look at this comment though from one of the "question" reviewers re: the canned venison:

... yes this is an outdated label and although they no longer add the sodium tropolyphosphate, the NEW formula contains tetrasodium pyrophosphate, which is a toxic chemical that is used as a flavoring , however, this is also used in cleansers and rust removal. I also found it on a hazard list. I even contacted someone at ZiwiPeak and after he looked into it himself, he was baffled as to why it was being used. I just wanted to make other ZiwiPeak consumers aware of this since we think we are paying extra to have the best food for our pets, however, one single ingredient can negate this. see less 

... November 9, 2015


What a tangled web this industry weaves, sigh.

LisaMarie12 said:

 
So ZP is basically passing the buck to the FDA: although the combined meat parts add up to more than the broth, per the FDA, ZP has to list the broth first. Hmm ... well let's see what the FDA has to say specifically about pet food labeling:

Federal regulations require ingredients be listed on the product label by their common or usual name in descending order of predominance according to weight (21 CFR 501.4). A common or usual name is one that accurately identifies or describes the basic nature of the ingredient (21 CFR 502.5). FDA has recognized the definitions as they appear in the Official Publication of AAFCO as the common or usual name for animal feed ingredients including pet food (Compliance Policy Guide 7126.08). There is only one exception to the requirement to list the common or usual name on the label--when the ingredient is part of a collective name. Regulation 21 CFR 501.110 describes the use of collective names. The following are acceptable collective names: animal protein products, forage products, grain products, plant protein products, processed grain byproducts and roughage products. These collective names may be used in the ingredient list for livestock and poultry feeds, but not pet foods.

http://www.fda.gov/AnimalVeterinary/Products/AnimalFoodFeeds/IngredientsAdditives/default.htm

"According to weight".

Amazon also has outdated ingredients for ZP canned (carrageenan); take a look at this comment though from one of the "question" reviewers re: the canned venison:

... yes this is an outdated label and although they no longer add the sodium tropolyphosphate, the NEW formula contains tetrasodium pyrophosphate, which is a toxic chemical that is used as a flavoring , however, this is also used in cleansers and rust removal. I also found it on a hazard list. I even contacted someone at ZiwiPeak and after he looked into it himself, he was baffled as to why it was being used. I just wanted to make other ZiwiPeak consumers aware of this since we think we are paying extra to have the best food for our pets, however, one single ingredient can negate this. see less 

... November 9, 2015


What a tangled web this industry weaves, sigh.

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Ugh! Thanks for that info. I'm so tired of these companies that tout themselves as producing food that's clean when there's all these hidden additives. For the price of ZP, there's absolutely no reason why it should have questionable ingredients in it. I'm already making a plan for a big HT order and I'm just going to add more RC to my rotation. My biggest issue with RC is the only place i can get it from is 30 minutes from where I live and its super over-priced there, by a few dollars per container. I considered ordering from Only Natural Pet because it's cheaper there, but with the cost of shipping it would be about the same as I'm paying. 

missmimz said:

 
Ugh! Thanks for that info. I'm so tired of these companies that tout themselves as producing food that's clean when there's all these hidden additives. For the price of ZP, there's absolutely no reason why it should have questionable ingredients in it. I'm already making a plan for a big HT order and I'm just going to add more RC to my rotation. My biggest issue with RC is the only place i can get it from is 30 minutes from where I live and its super over-priced there, by a few dollars per container. I considered ordering from Only Natural Pet because it's cheaper there, but with the cost of shipping it would be about the same as I'm paying. 

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Definitely - it's one thing to see questionable ingredients on a lower price point food (not acceptable, of course, but predictable) vs a higher priced food like ZP.  At the store where I'm working at, ZP canned foods for cats - their 6 oz is being sold for a whopping $4.00 a can; the rabbit / lamb, $4.20 - ridiculous!

(Interestingly, Nutro Natural Choice used to use tetrasodium pyrophosphate, or at least it was in their sliced turkey formula when I used it briefly last year. I noticed now via several web sites and Nutro's own site, TSP has been replaced with tetrapotassium pyrophosphate, which I know nothing about, other than what a quick Google search reveals. It may not be as bad as TSP, not sure, but the point is that Nutro removed it.)

That's too bad about the lack of availability of RC in your area.   Is there any way you could talk with the owner of the store where you purchase RC to see if you could get a discount  if you buy a larger quantity?  Or until you get your order of HT, just stick with different canned food? 

It's frustrating, I know.

LisaMarie12 said:

 
Definitely - it's one thing to see questionable ingredients on a lower price point food (not acceptable, of course, but predictable) vs a higher priced food like ZP.  At the store where I'm working at, ZP canned foods for cats - their 6 oz is being sold for a whopping $4.00 a can; the rabbit / lamb, $4.20 - ridiculous!

(Interestingly, Nutro Natural Choice used to use tetrasodium pyrophosphate, or at least it was in their sliced turkey formula when I used it briefly last year. I noticed now via several web sites and Nutro's own site, TSP has been replaced with tetrapotassium pyrophosphate, which I know nothing about, other than what a quick Google search reveals. It may not be as bad as TSP, not sure, but the point is that Nutro removed it.)

That's too bad about the lack of availability of RC in your area.   Is there any way you could talk with the owner of the store where you purchase RC to see if you could get a discount  if you buy a larger quantity?  Or until you get your order of HT, just stick with different canned food? 

It's frustrating, I know.

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They sell Ziwipeak at the pet store that sells the RC and they charge over $4 for some of the 6oz cans, its nuts. I did ask another pet store that's closer to me if they'd consider special ordering RC for me. I'm not sure they'll do it but they said they'd look into it. They carry other frozen foods like S&C and Primal, so I don't see why they wouldn't consider carrying RC. So hard to find independent pet store's around here, they're almost all part of a chain  

I'm going to use up what's left of the ZP canned and then probably just stick with what I know they like right now. Luckily 4 of the kittens are getting older and eating less. I'm not that sad about discontinuing ZP canned because it was too pricey anyway. 

Thanks for your help you've been very informative! 

This is a very informative thread, thank you M missmimz and L lisamarie12

I used to give ZP Lamb to my last cat during her last year, it was one of few she would eat. I'm not so sure I'll try it with my new cat, not the least because it was pretty pricey for what it was (gee, I thought the price of $3.15 per 6oz paid locally here was a lot! I can't imagine paying $4-4.20 per can!)

PushPurrCatPaws said:

This is a very informative thread, thank you @missmimz and @LisaMarie12

I used to give ZP Lamb to my last cat during her last year, it was one of few she would eat. I'm not so sure I'll try it with my new cat, not the least because it was pretty pricey for what it was (gee, I thought the price of $3.15 per 6oz paid locally here was a lot! I can't imagine paying $4-4.20 per can!)

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I agree - I see $4 prices for 13 oz cans of dog food but for a 6 oz cat food, that's over the top. When I used ZP a couple years back, it was in the $3 -$3.20 range, the price has shot up.

Sorry about your kitty.

Quote:

PushPurrCatPaws said:

This is a very informative thread, thank you @missmimz and @LisaMarie12
 

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Would like to 2nd this. Really appreciate the info / follow up.

Another confusing part of their website/labeling - on the website under analysis/ingredients for moist foods, it'll list the meat ingredients as "min 66%." This seems quite odd compared to NVI, Bravo, etc that are labeled as 95% meat.

I wonder if some of these sites that write about "best foods" will change their tune about ZP once they update their site with the broth as the main ingredient. While I do think ZP is still good food when you compare it to others in the market, the price and lack of transparency doesn't make it worth it. 

Merrick for example is extremely transparent and responsive regarding their LID foods, they even sent me coupons when I contacted them about the cans not being 5oz. But i don't know how long that will last since they were bought out  

I am going to continue using the ZP air dried. 

missmimz said:

Merrick for example is extremely transparent and responsive regarding their LID foods, they even sent me coupons when I contacted them about the cans not being 5oz. But i don't know how long that will last since they were bought out  

I am going to continue using the ZP air dried. 

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Merrick and their LID canned foods, specifically the LID turkey and LID duck, really annoyed me. I don't know if the company has corrected this yet: on the front of the canned labels Merrick states, "single protein" yet the fifth ingredient for both their duck and turkey is "dried egg product".
When I first emailed Merrick about this, i.e., " would that be dried turkey egg product or dried duck egg product? " (sarcasm), knowing it was obviously dried chicken egg product, hence, their LID turkey and duck formulas are not single protein.

I didn't hear back from Merrick so I called their customer service and asked the same question. Pregnant pause. "It's chicken egg and we are working on correcting the error."

A few days later I received a response from Merrick re: my email saying basically their LiD formulas were doing so well and "we are truly working on making all the formulas single protein, we pawsitively regret the error!"

Very irresponsible of Merrick. There are cats that are not only allergic to chicken but eggs as well. There are customers who won't take time to read ingredient labels, they may be looking for LID and see "single protein" on the label bc that's what their vet recommended or they'll ask store associates for LID, single protein foods.

Nature's Variety's LID and Natural Balance LID are both single protein.

I reported this to my state AAFCO, they could not have cared less.

So there is yet another example of an inaccurate, mislabeled product.

Anyway, sorry to digress on this thread Missmimz.

LisaMarie12 said:

Merrick and their LID canned foods, specifically the LID turkey and LID duck, really annoyed me. I don't know if the company has corrected this yet: on the front of the canned labels Merrick states, "single protein" yet the fifth ingredient for both their duck and turkey is "dried egg product".
When I first emailed Merrick about this, i.e., " would that be dried turkey egg product or dried duck egg product? " (sarcasm), knowing it was obviously dried chicken egg product, hence, their LID turkey and duck formulas are not single protein.

I didn't hear back from Merrick so I called their customer service and asked the same question. Pregnant pause. "It's chicken egg and we are working on correcting the error."

A few days later I received a response from Merrick re: my email saying basically their LiD formulas were doing so well and "we are truly working on making all the formulas single protein, we pawsitively regret the error!"

Very irresponsible of Merrick. There are cats that are not only allergic to chicken but eggs as well. There are customers who won't take time to read ingredient labels, they may be looking for LID and see "single protein" on the label bc that's what their vet recommended or they'll ask store associates for LID, single protein foods.

Nature's Variety's LID and Natural Balance LID are both single protein.

I reported this to my state AAFCO, they could not have cared less.

So there is yet another example of an inaccurate, mislabeled product.

Anyway, sorry to digress on this thread Missmimz.

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I have seen this complaint before about the Merrick LID, but i wonder how common the egg allergy actually is vs. the actual meat protein. The protein found in eggs is not the same as that found in the actual meat. At least with humans, most people with chicken egg allergies can eat chicken just fine, or vise versa.