Angel isn't doing well :(

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cat nap

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You know Angel so well @Angels mommy  and following your gut feelings was spot on.  Lucky that tech was aavailable to talk to and said you could take Angel in for a check.

Did they say if they think the heart issues are as a reaction to the Pred or if they think it might have been going on for a while?  If they hadn't detected anything before it could be a reaction to the Pred.  The slow reduction in that medication is to avoid any issues related to the adrenal gland - which include carciac issues and inflamatory responses which can be made worse if it stops suddenly.   Tapering it down slowly is the safest thing to do even if the heart problems are because of the Pred.   It is amazing how quickly medication like the Atenolol can kick in too - when my previous older kitty was put on meds to reduce her blood pressure it came right down within days and she was noticably better despite it having affected her eye sight.   Now the vets know about the heart issues they should be able to treat Angel with this taken in to consideration and have him feeling better through the second half of his treatment.   You know that this is what we will all be wishing for.    Now what you need to do is to relax with Angel as that is what will help him the most.

Thanks MServant!  Yes, she thought it was because of the pred, but said it also runns in large male cats, so....  So now down to 1/2 a pred a day. His b.p. has always been good, even low for being at the vets, she has said before, so I think she said the Atenolol is to help calm his heart down. It was beating pretty fast. 

Yes, he laid out here on the floor for a bit, did a little 2' poop, (may have to do fluids tomorrow, if he doesn't poop more from more food), & went back in the bathroom. I took his bowl in there, & I think he ate some. i will check in a few. Was trying to give him some space to relax & decompress from all of that. Now, I have to do that too!   ...........Aaaaand exhale!!!!
Kelly, do NOT do the SQ fluids, until after you talk to your own vet. 

With heart issues, I was told that too much fluids would put a cat into congestive failure. (My rainbow cat Spotty had both CKD and HCM...kidney disease kept him constantly dehydrated, but fluids could put him into heart failure. My vet had actually told me, that the combination of these two illnesses was very hard to treat.)

Just to make sure, ask your vet, if it's okay.

Wow, I am so glad that you followed your observations and took Angel in. Hopefully, the new meds will kick in and control any heart or electrolyte imbalances.

(I won't be online until late again, friday night, but I'm wishing you and Angel some well deserved rest days, and good days for you both, as you said with space to relax and decompress.)

Still will be sending worldwide health vibes and prayers.  And some hugs, too.
 
 
 
 
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angels mommy

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Thanks @Norachan, & @catnap!
Wow, thanks for that info!!!!
I will just keep adding water to his food, as I usually do, but a little extra. Since he will go back on Monday for his treatment anyway.
Perhaps that is also part of why he was grumpy last Monday there. Besides the fact that he's getting tired of it.
 
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angels mommy

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How is he doing today? Poor guy.thinking about you two.
Thank you.  He seems to be doing better. He was under the bed when I woke up this morning, so I was able to count his breaths per min. w/o disturbing him, just laying there listening. 

I set my phone for one min. & it was 24 breaths, so that's really good. Tried to get him to eat, (1/4 can of Dave's) & he wasn't interested. Took about 4 licks & that's all. So today, I am going to the place I buy his food, & get some more of those "Cat's in the Kitchen" pkts. He seems to like the gravy in them, & usually gets him eating, so will probably pick up about 6 of them. I wish they were more than 3 oz's though. 

I am taking my car in today to have those manifold gaskets replaced. (Thank God my parents are paying for that, so it can get done. 250.00 I didn't have!) 

So my dad is picking me up, so I don't have to sit there for 3 hrs waiting, & I can go get those packets. 

Hopefully once he eats more, he will also have a normal poop!  

The vets called to confirm Mondays apt. & I caught them up w/ he seems to be doing better, & what his # of breaths were. His Doctor is off on Thursdays, so he saw the owner yesterday. She reminds me a little of that Dr."D" on Alaskan Vet on Animal Planet. 
 She has treated angel before in the past, when he had to stay over, but we see the other vet.
 

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That thing I was thinking of-CO-10 is in that supplement above. Coenzyme 10 is supposed to be realy good for the heart-the other things in there sound ok. I don't know about cats but in people magnesium citrate helps keep us regular at least for me it does-that supplement looks like its got everything in one.

but not sure why so much money
 
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angels mommy

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That thing I was thinking of-CO-10 is in that supplement above. Coenzyme 10 is supposed to be realy good for the heart-the other things in there sound ok. I don't know about cats but in people magnesium citrate helps keep us regular at least for me it does-that supplement looks like its got everything in one.

but not sure why so much money
Yes, I knew you were talking about CO Q 10.   I will have to see if It's on amazon, but it is a 90 capsule bottle. (they are big ones too!!)  & I'm sure w/ the vets mark up is why. Yea, it was 63.00 & change!  The Echo was 78.00!  Plus the exam fee & Atenolol. so that's why last night's total was so much!   Hopefully, by time we get through the bottle, or before, the problem will not be there, & he won't need another bottle.

I am so thankful for the generous people who have donated to his fund!!!    It all helps!   

I got him to eat some of the Cats in the kitchen pkt. Licked up most of the gravy of course, so cut up the shreds more, 
 & added the rest of the pkt, w/ more gravy & he ate a little more. Not sure if he even ate half the small 3 oz pkt, but it's a start!   
 

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I give Psycho Ubiquinol which is a refined
CO Q 10. It is Dr Mercola 's and it s a squirt bottle and I give him 1 pump each day in his soft food. He likes it.
 

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Each cat is different . Psycho is very picky but he was ok with this . I also give him Omega 3 . I tried Mercola Krill oil but he would not touch it. Then I got Arcanatura made from plankton and he eats that just fine. Cats, go figure. We love them though [emoji]10084[/emoji]️[emoji]128571[/emoji][emoji]128062[/emoji]
 
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angels mommy

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Thanks you guys, yes, whenever he comes out of his box I will kiss him up!!
He did pretty good today, eating the rest of the pkt a couple hrs later around 3:15. Just some shreds left, maybe between a tsp & TBS. So I got one of the new Nat. Bal. Cans I bought out, chicken, turkey, & quail. It said grain free, high protein. I just took a 1/8 sliver & mixed it w/ the leftover shreds, & some water. He ate almost half as long as I was holding the dish & it had plenty of nutritional yeast on it. Lol. So, if I can get him to eat the rest tonight, that will be 3.68 ozs. If not, at least a little over 3. Not great for the whole day, but just happy he ate some.

I gave him his pm meds (Cardio strength w/ the Atenolol & pepcid inside it) @ 5:00, since that is about the time he probably got them at the vets last night. I set my phone alarm for 5:00 daily.
 
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angels mommy

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Good Saturday afternoon all 
    

Well, I never got Angel to eat anymore last night, so he only ate a little over 3 ozs yesterday.   This morning, I went ahead & gave him a Cerenia, in case nausea was the problem, but a couple hrs later, he still wasn't interested in food. I fixed another packet, warmed it up, so he could smell it, & he only took a few licks.

I tried a couple more times this afternoon, but no go!   SO, He is resting/sleeping, if he can, (I gave him a Tramodol about 11:15) in his box right now. He has been in there for a while now, so leaving him alone, & will try again later w/ the food. 

I have a friend coming over around 2:00 for some work on his back that's been spasming, so will try w/ the food then, since he will probably wake up then.

It's 1:30 now.    It seems as if lately, he only eats in the afternoon.  

This morning, I had to pull him out of his box to give him his meds. I set my phone alarm for 9:00 every morning, & 5:00 every evening, so I can give his meds at regular times.  He went under the couch after that this morning, but my dad stopped by, & he came out to see him, which is good, because he didn't yesterday. 

So he got some pets from Grampa!  

Now, I just really want him to eat!!!!!

Here is a question I thought about, & am going to maybe ask the vet about Monday. What do you experts think??

Okay, since he DEFINITELY can NOT have the appetite stimulant now, since it raced his heart, I thought about Amatriptyline. (I think I spelled that right).

He was put on it 3 yrs ago for his cystitis, to help the bladder relax, so he could pee more. Even though it's an anti-anxiety/ anti-depressant, It is also why he gained the weight he did to 15 lbs.  I thought, hmmm, If it makes him more hungry, maybe it will be worth a try, & for the reasons it's made as well w/ everything he is going through!  As long as it doesn't interact w/ anything else he is on.

I thought it may be an answer. What to you guys think?
 

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Hi Kelly
I posted your question about the question you asked above in the Facebook group for lymphoma. I also asked them about the side effects of pred and heart disease and what to expect or anything else they think.

How much pred is he now being given?

This must be so scary for you
 

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When Psycho had the UTI last year my vet andI discuses that medicine. Draw hits told me we would need to monitor his heart because that anti depressant effects the heart. It s worth asking your vet.though.
 

foxxycat

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Kelly-I found this information below on one of the posts. There is another steroid that can be tried if your vet feels that this one is better?



You might also discuss with your vet(s) the possibility of using budesonide instead of prednisolone. Budesonide is a steroid, but it is supposed to be mostly non-absorbed into the body and instead works locally/topically in the intestines. Some in this group use budesonide to help prevent problems for kitties with heart issues.

My understanding is that if you use Budesonide, you want to get the name-brand capsules and not a generic. Last I knew Budesonide could be purchased (with a prescription from your vet) much less expensively through some Canadian pharmacies, but I haven't kept track on that. I believe you'd have to buy a full bottle (maybe 100 count?), but if you try it and it works for your kitty it would probably be more economical in the long run. I believe they are 3mg capsules and you'd have to open them and divide them into 1/3s. You can buy empty gel caps and carefully pour some of the little beads out of the original capsule.

At one time there was a website on IBD kitties (maybe called "IBD kitties") that discussed using Budesonide, buying and dividing it. You could search to see if the site still exists. My recollection is that the woman who wrote about dividing the capsules is a retired MD who has been a cat foster-mom for a while. We had some email "conversations" in the past and she is a very helpful person.

Also, the yahoo feline IBD group might have current information on Budesonide or maybe someone from this group knows about buying it and will chime in.


Maybe this information can help. ..still looking around for more information about heart issues vs steroids
 
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angels mommy

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Oh my gosh you guys, Thank you so much!!!!!!
I really appreciate the help!!
It just all gets too overwhelming for me, & don't know enough about it, good vs/ bad.
It's 4:00 & still trying to get him to eat. He ate a little earlier, & a little about a hlf hr ago, but still not even half of that 3oz pkt! I really do not want to have to force feed him. Last time I tried that, it did not go well. Too much head turning, & ended up all over me instead. Plus, I don't want to make it worse w/ creating a bad association w/ food. I am going to wait & warm it up again just before I give him his meds at 5:00, & maybe he will eat after that if I leave him alone. :(

Oh yea, he is only on 1/2 of one now. Instead of 1 & 1/2
 
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foxxycat

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What about giving him half of what you give for mirtazapine? Call the vet. See if they have aany other ideas. I still haven't heard anything about this from the Facebook group. Regarding eating.


What about side efforts of atenoloe (sp?). Is one of them appetite issues?

Zofran is another anti nausea med. Hmmm stumped.


What about temptation treats? At this point we want him eating. Whatevrr it is I would think. I never have good luck force feeding. Each cat is different.
 
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