Need input - FIV+ and FIV- cats living together. Risks/Concerns

This picture speaks volumes

They have pretty much already gone through the introduction phase of the process, and are familiar with one another, a good thing.

Your comment about him having battle wounds is a big concern, as there are clearly unneutered bullies still out there and are pouncing on him as a possible threat to their 'territory'. This is exactly how he was infected to begin with.

What a sad/hard life for them out there. To exist in constant high alert as they have to.........

Glad my story helps.

That picture was taken about six months ago and before he was so affectionate with me.  He was okay with the my cats it seems.  At present, my Torbie runs from him though and is very cautious, which is probably because my indoor male jumps her out of excitement when another cat is outside and will "fight" with her. She growls, hisses and swats at him but Chaucer knows no boundaries and none of the "rules of the outdoor cats" having been with me since he was a kitten while my female does. That's what worries me - that he will fight with Orville and it will turn into a real fight. Orville seems pretty laid-back but is at least twice Chaucer's size. Chaucer is very high-energy and plays "hard."  When he plays through the crack in the door, he and Orville swat at each other.  I'm not sure I see claws but it's possible they are extended. Chaucer's tail and back puff up. Orville's tail sometimes is a little large but not much.  I'm probably over-worrying and over-thinking this FIV thing but I would feel awful if one or both of my cats contracted it because I introduced it into the household.

Also, the lock on the pocket doors doesn't even work any longer. I suppose the house has settled over time and the lock doesn't hit correctly now. It would require a bit of redoing.

Chaucer said:

 
That picture was taken about six months ago and before he was so affectionate with me.  He was okay with the my cats it seems.  At present, my Torbie runs from him though and is very cautious, which is probably because my indoor male jumps her out of excitement when another cat is outside and will "fight" with her. She growls, hisses and swats at him but Chaucer knows no boundaries and none of the "rules of the outdoor cats" having been with me since he was a kitten while my female does. That's what worries me - that he will fight with Orville and it will turn into a real fight. Orville seems pretty laid-back but is at least twice Chaucer's size. Chaucer is very high-energy and plays "hard."  When he plays through the crack in the door, he and Orville swat at each other.  I'm not sure I see claws but it's possible they are extended. Chaucer's tail and back puff up. Orville's tail sometimes is a little large but not much.  I'm probably over-worrying and over-thinking this FIV thing but I would feel awful if one or both of my cats contracted it because I introduced it into the household.

Also, the lock on the pocket doors doesn't even work any longer. I suppose the house has settled over time and the lock doesn't hit correctly now. It would require a bit of redoing.

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OMG it looks like they could be great friends.  Time to fix those locks

Sometimes I think Orville and Chaucer could be buddies but then I see the fluffed up tail and ridged back on Chaucer and I have second thoughts. I wouldn't have these thoughts if Orvy wasn't FIV+.  I would just bring him in and let them work it out, much like what happened with Chaucer and Henryetta when I finally moved her into the house after all the kittens were adopted. She was semi-feral and I'd been feeding her for 9 months when I brought her in the house to live. Chaucer "met" her through the screen too. 

Catwoman, yes, I think there are some intact Toms around but I don't see them much since Henryetta was spayed over a year ago. I haven't seen the kittens' father in a very long time. There was only one father, by the way. Henryetta was no ****.

Will keep you all posted as to the housing fate of Orville. It will be after Christmas before I can bring him in. Visitors and holiday guests will stress out Henryetta  as it is, and she has been in the house since September 2014, so I don't want to introduce another feral/semi-feral into the mix.  Chaucer will delight in everyone though. He's incredibly social and friendly.

When integrating a new kitty, it takes time.  There will be times of conflict, but you have to let them work it out.  We use a towel to "herd" the offender away from the other.  I have full faith that you can integrate him and make him a loving part of your indoor clan.  There's no reason that he would need to live separately.

I also appreciate all of the advice on here.  I too have an "ex-tom" FIV+ semi-feral that is living in my bedroom that I hope to introduce to my four FIV- indoor girls soon. The Feliway has worked wonders for him, and I have it out in the living room too for my girls to help with the eventual introduction.

@Chaucer, I definitely understand your apprehension.  I've never introduced an FIV+ cat to my babies either and was quite concerned as well, but from what I understand from my research and from my vet and others I know that have done it, the odds of my girls getting it are very, very slim.  Really, they probably have better odds of getting other ailments in general (my Mama kitty had to have her eye removed due to Melanoma).

I'm going to take the introduction slowly, in stages, as suggested, if for no other reason than to reduce the stress on them, but also just to be sure things go as well as possible under the circumstances.  I have a tortie that thinks she's the boss of things around here.

But really, when I think back on it, of all the cats I've introduced to each other in a much more expedited fashion, I've never had a single incident of a bite wound.  Definitely some posturing, hyper-focusing on each other, growling, hissing, etc.  But no actual injuries.  When I say that, I would imagine someone scratched someone here and there, but there were no injuries that were noticeable to me and certainly none that rose to any level that would require veterinary care, nevermind be of the severity needed to transmit FIV.

Regardless, it's possible, so I think taking it slow won't hurt, just in case.  And worst case, if some freak thing (like getting hit by an asteroid) does happen where we get a deep bite wound despite my best efforts AND one of my girls ends up with FIV from that bite wound despite a vaccine, both of which are highly unlikely, I'll just deal with it, guilt-free, as I did the best I could and it was a fluke.  Because from what I understand, FIV+ cats can have a life expectancy the same as a FIV- cat if they live indoors where they have less of a chance of picking up a secondary infection.  So while I'd like to avoid transmission, if by some craziness it happened, I decided it's not the end of the world.  It is what it is, and we'll just move forward from there.  However, I'm not concerned about it even coming to that.

Obviously, you need to make whatever decision feels right for you.  I just thought I would share my thoughts on my current situation, if it helps at all.

Perhaps you can try a really slow introduction with a large dog cage like I'm going to do, feeding them wet food nearby with the goal of getting them to eat near each other, and see how it goes.  Worst case, if it goes on and on with no success, abort the mission.  My vet said if they will eventually eat near each other, then things should be good to where even if they do tussle, they're not likely to be inflicting the kinds of wounds that are required to transmit FIV.  After doing the sock-scent thing, etc, I'm going to introduce them one at a time to him, and get each of my girls cool with it while he's in the dog cage.  Then have some playtime with just him and "the girl of the day" with lots of fun and treats.  And when I let him have the run of the house, just him at first with the girls in a separate room.  Then let one girl out at a time, so he can be used to them being "out and about" and them being used to him in their space.  This process might be overkill, but it certainly won't hurt in terms of stress reduction.

If you decide not to bring him in, that's okay too.  Your comfort with your decision is paramount.  My neighbor gave me some various cat furniture, etc, from her cat that had FIV and I was so nervous about it the stuff sat on my porch for ages and then I tossed it.  So I get how you feel.  I've learned a bit more since, so I've gone from being concerned about that cat furniture to allowing an FIV+ cat to live with my girls.  But I remember the concern I had and can relate to how you feel.  My neighbor was trying to explain like, "No really, it's fine!"  But at the time I had the heeby jeebies about the FIV thing.  So if it doesn't feel right to you, then don't do it.  It's important that YOU feel comfortable with your decision, not whether anyone else would feel comfortable.

Wow he is such a beautiful boy.  

Can you rehome him with someone that doesn't currently have a cat? He really is a beautiful boy. Thank you for looking out for him 

I'm surprised no one has shared this study, published last year by Dr. Litster, of Maddie's Fund:

This is the pre-publication presentations http://www.maddiesfund.org/update-on-fiv.htm
The abstract of the published study: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1090023314000847
The Plain English article about the study: http://www.wivotersforcompanionanim...-can-live-harmoniously-with-fiv-negative-cats

I have 14 cats, four of which are FIV. All are former ferals, most introduced as older cats, five of them introduced this past year (brought the ferals inside in a relocation move rather than release them back outside).

Our wrestle, play, groom each other... since 2010 when we brought in our first FIV+ cat, there has been no transmission.

I suggest you join the FIV-healthscience yahoo group ( https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/fiv-healthscience/info ) and search the discussions. There was a recent discussion by someone in the exact position you are, asking about transmission. Several members had integrated FIV+ and FIV- cats that had bitten each other (inside, so not the deep, penetrating wounds of fighting males) and experienced no transmission. I think there was one member that did have a transmission, but they don't know how it happened as there was no bite or grooming involved.

Of course... is transmission of the disease such a terrible thing? Perhaps my view is clouded by having such healthy FIV+ cats.... (Knock wood).

stephanietx , Zed Xyzed - Thank you so much for the encouragement. I do hope I can get Orville inside. He is a sweet cat.  I'm  not sure he would be happy in another home since I've been the one to work with him. He trusts me completely. I would be afraid he would feel like I abandoned him if I gave him to someone. I want him.  He's got the most beautiful aqua-green eyes.

LDG, you have provided great information as always. It's just me who is the skittish one. Chaucer is a groomer - he does this with Henryetta and then, of course, chews on her neck.   There has never been an injury though. I

CatSnip404 said:

 
I also appreciate all of the advice on here.  I too have an "ex-tom" FIV+ semi-feral that is living in my bedroom that I hope to introduce to my four FIV- indoor girls soon. The Feliway has worked wonders for him, and I have it out in the living room too for my girls to help with the eventual introduction.

@Chaucer, I definitely understand your apprehension.  I've never introduced an FIV+ cat to my babies either and was quite concerned as well, but from what I understand from my research and from my vet and others I know that have done it, the odds of my girls getting it are very, very slim.  Really, they probably have better odds of getting other ailments in general (my Mama kitty had to have her eye removed due to Melanoma).

I'm going to take the introduction slowly, in stages, as suggested, if for no other reason than to reduce the stress on them, but also just to be sure things go as well as possible under the circumstances.  I have a tortie that thinks she's the boss of things around here.

But really, when I think back on it, of all the cats I've introduced to each other in a much more expedited fashion, I've never had a single incident of a bite wound.  Definitely some posturing, hyper-focusing on each other, growling, hissing, etc.  But no actual injuries.  When I say that, I would imagine someone scratched someone here and there, but there were no injuries that were noticeable to me and certainly none that rose to any level that would require veterinary care, nevermind be of the severity needed to transmit FIV.

Regardless, it's possible, so I think taking it slow won't hurt, just in case.  And worst case, if some freak thing (like getting hit by an asteroid) does happen where we get a deep bite wound despite my best efforts AND one of my girls ends up with FIV from that bite wound despite a vaccine, both of which are highly unlikely, I'll just deal with it, guilt-free, as I did the best I could and it was a fluke.  Because from what I understand, FIV+ cats can have a life expectancy the same as a FIV- cat if they live indoors where they have less of a chance of picking up a secondary infection.  So while I'd like to avoid transmission, if by some craziness it happened, I decided it's not the end of the world.  It is what it is, and we'll just move forward from there.  However, I'm not concerned about it even coming to that.

Obviously, you need to make whatever decision feels right for you.  I just thought I would share my thoughts on my current situation, if it helps at all.

Perhaps you can try a really slow introduction with a large dog cage like I'm going to do, feeding them wet food nearby with the goal of getting them to eat near each other, and see how it goes.  Worst case, if it goes on and on with no success, abort the mission.  My vet said if they will eventually eat near each other, then things should be good to where even if they do tussle, they're not likely to be inflicting the kinds of wounds that are required to transmit FIV.  After doing the sock-scent thing, etc, I'm going to introduce them one at a time to him, and get each of my girls cool with it while he's in the dog cage.  Then have some playtime with just him and "the girl of the day" with lots of fun and treats.  And when I let him have the run of the house, just him at first with the girls in a separate room.  Then let one girl out at a time, so he can be used to them being "out and about" and them being used to him in their space.  This process might be overkill, but it certainly won't hurt in terms of stress reduction.

If you decide not to bring him in, that's okay too.  Your comfort with your decision is paramount.  My neighbor gave me some various cat furniture, etc, from her cat that had FIV and I was so nervous about it the stuff sat on my porch for ages and then I tossed it.  So I get how you feel.  I've learned a bit more since, so I've gone from being concerned about that cat furniture to allowing an FIV+ cat to live with my girls.  But I remember the concern I had and can relate to how you feel.  My neighbor was trying to explain like, "No really, it's fine!"  But at the time I had the heeby jeebies about the FIV thing.  So if it doesn't feel right to you, then don't do it.  It's important that YOU feel comfortable with your decision, not whether anyone else would feel comfortable.

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Thank you for sharing your experiences with me. It helps to know I'm not alone in my concern. My three already know each other and the scents, thanks to the screen door they visit and play through. After I pet Orville, I come in and pet Henryetta or Chaucer before I wash my hands to transfer some scent to them. 

I may bring food to the screen and let them breakfast together. That's what I did with Chaucer and Henryetta and now these two eat off the same plate at the same time!  Just wish I had a place in the house where Orville could stay for a few days so that he gets used to being inside and more "confined."  With Henryetta, she was confined in my laundry room until I took her to the storage room about a week or so before the kittens came. By the time she moved permanently into the house, she'd been inside a structure for five months and was so happy to live in the house that there were no problems. Chaucer also went out to the storage room to visit and play with the last kitten awaiting adoption. He was great with the active, playful three month-old and Henryetta trusted him with her, although Henryetta would go hide when Chaucer was around. So, I think Chaucer just likes to play and Orville likes to play. I just don't want it to turn aggressive once Orville is inside. 

Let me just say that Orville is in trouble with me. While I won't get FIV, I could get Cat Scratch Disease. He has an annoying, and now painful, habit of swatting the back/side of my leg when I try to go in the house if he is near the stairs. Yesterday, he got me with his claws between my sock and the hem of my pajamas. I have a place where a claw went in my leg and a small scratch near it.  He didn't like that I was "talking" to the neighbor's cat who happened to be in the carport at the same time I was there with Orville.  I know where my two indoor cats have been and what they've been scratching, but I don't know about Orville's habits. He's had his shots and I've had a tetanus shot within the last 2.5 years, but still.... Orville is on Santa's Naughty List right now!

Chaucer said:

 
Let me just say that Orville is in trouble with me. While I won't get FIV, I could get Cat Scratch Disease. He has an annoying, and now painful, habit of swatting the back/side of my leg when I try to go in the house if he is near the stairs. Yesterday, he got me with his claws between my sock and the hem of my pajamas. I have a place where a claw went in my leg and a small scratch near it.  He didn't like that I was "talking" to the neighbor's cat who happened to be in the carport at the same time I was there with Orville.  I know where my two indoor cats have been and what they've been scratching, but I don't know about Orville's habits. He's had his shots and I've had a tetanus shot within the last 2.5 years, but still.... Orville is on Santa's Naughty List right now!

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I'm not an expert on why some cats will do that, I have a former feral resident who does something similar, after having her for years and can now pet her, she loves the pets, but the minute I stop and take my hand away she swats my hand.

Go figure that one........

However I can explain cat scratch disease a bit.

About 65% of all carry the virus in their systems with no effects to them at all.

Their nails will have their saliva on them simply from grooming.

If a particular person who is vulnerable to this virus gets a deep enough scratch that it bleeds, I don't mean a light surface scratch that a bit of blood might appear but one that you need to hold under cold water for a few for it to stop bleeding type, then that person may show symptoms of CSD.

Only a small amt of people are sensitive to this, the majority won't react, their system simply gets rid of it without any problem.

I happen to be one of those people.

While I've had plenty of scratches, the only time it effected me was by a short but deep scratch on the top of my hand, the scratch healed fine but about 2 weeks after the scratch I woke up and had swollen lymph nodes and was put on antibiotics.

Funny thing is, the cat Darcy who scratched me, she is one of my very faves living at one of the colonies I have in town that I have TNR'd and cared for since her and her sibs were about 5 months old.

I pet her but she is feisty (tortitude and when I take my hand away she swats sometimes. She nailed me good that day, now that I know she might get me again I'm alot more careful how I quickly take my hand away!

catwoman707 said:

 
I'm not an expert on why some cats will do that, I have a former feral resident who does something similar, after having her for years and can now pet her, she loves the pets, but the minute I stop and take my hand away she swats my hand.

Go figure that one........

However I can explain cat scratch disease a bit.

About 65% of all carry the virus in their systems with no effects to them at all.

Their nails will have their saliva on them simply from grooming.

If a particular person who is vulnerable to this virus gets a deep enough scratch that it bleeds, I don't mean a light surface scratch that a bit of blood might appear but one that you need to hold under cold water for a few for it to stop bleeding type, then that person may show symptoms of CSD.

Only a small amt of people are sensitive to this, the majority won't react, their system simply gets rid of it without any problem.

I happen to be one of those people.

While I've had plenty of scratches, the only time it effected me was by a short but deep scratch on the top of my hand, the scratch healed fine but about 2 weeks after the scratch I woke up and had swollen lymph nodes and was put on antibiotics.

Funny thing is, the cat Darcy who scratched me, she is one of my very faves living at one of the colonies I have in town that I have TNR'd and cared for since her and her sibs were about 5 months old.

I pet her but she is feisty (tortitude and when I take my hand away she swats sometimes. She nailed me good that day, now that I know she might get me again I'm alot more careful how I quickly take my hand away!

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I have a friend who happens to be a microbiologist.  I told her about it and she went into the medical description and such. She's visiting next week so I'll have her look at it if it isn't gone by Sunday.  I got ringworm in two places from Chaucer when he was a kitten - he was a carrier and didn't have visible ringworm. She had to talk me  down about that!

Swatting is an issue for me though. Orville doesn't seem like an aggressive cat and he may have just been annoyed that I was going inside or "talking" to the neighbor's cat, but it made me wonder how he will be inside with two others. Chaucer has an undiagnosed intestinal problem (I posted about it in this forum once). He has blood in his stool and horrible odor when he goes to the litter box. He has had a couple of steroid shots in the past year to help it, but the sample seems to be inconclusive.  It's unknown if the treatments and medications he had for ringworm contributed to his problem so that's another reason I'm a little hesitant about bringing Orville in with his FIV. Chaucer may have a weakend immune system himself but for a different reason.

Chaucer said:

 
I have a friend who happens to be a microbiologist.  I told her about it and she went into the medical description and such. She's visiting next week so I'll have her look at it if it isn't gone by Sunday.  I got ringworm in two places from Chaucer when he was a kitten - he was a carrier and didn't have visible ringworm. She had to talk me  down about that!

Swatting is an issue for me though. Orville doesn't seem like an aggressive cat and he may have just been annoyed that I was going inside or "talking" to the neighbor's cat, but it made me wonder how he will be inside with two others. Chaucer has an undiagnosed intestinal problem (I posted about it in this forum once). He has blood in his stool and horrible odor when he goes to the litter box. He has had a couple of steroid shots in the past year to help it, but the sample seems to be inconclusive.  It's unknown if the treatments and medications he had for ringworm contributed to his problem so that's another reason I'm a little hesitant about bringing Orville in with his FIV. Chaucer may have a weakend immune system himself but for a different reason.

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I wouldn't conflate or combine issues personally. Ringworm treatments shouldnt have anything to do with digestive issues, cat scratch fever is very very rare.  If it wasn't, we'd all be getting it.  But your point and question about his behavior is a good one, and a very slow  introduction is warranted. I can re-send you if i didn't already by introduction text.....

StephenQ said:

 
I wouldn't conflate or combine issues personally. Ringworm treatments shouldnt have anything to do with digestive issues, cat scratch fever is very very rare.  If it wasn't, we'd all be getting it.  But your point and question about his behavior is a good one, and a very slow  introduction is warranted. I can re-send you if i didn't already by introduction text.....

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Thanks. I can get them introduced slowly although they already "know" each other. Chaucer doesn't respect boundaries when it comes to other cats. He's never been an outside cat.  Henryetta, on the other hand, does know the "rules" of outdoor cats and she does have boundaries. This leads to some confrontations between the pair but they are bonded and don't truly "fight."  Henryetta will hide from Orville if he comes to live in the house and she will hiss and growl if he comes closer. Chaucer once rushed out the door and leapt on Orville despite the facts that Orville was a feral intact male at the time, and he was twice Chaucer's size.   Chaucer has no fear which may not be a great thing when it comes to other

Chaucer was only 6 months old and was put on somel medicine that had to be specially compounded because he was so young. He was only a ringworm carrier so there was no sign of the condition. Future side effects, according to the vet at that time, included liver problems and other things to watch for as he got older.

Hello,

I am sorry that I haven't been on the site for a few months. I wish I would have seen your post sooner!!

I can totally relate to you as I was in the exact same position that you are now in. Very long story short, I rescued a cat. She tested negative. My neighbors wanted her as I already had seven indoor cats. They decided she wanted to go on a walk. Long story short, she ended up getting loose and was living in my back yard again. It took me over a month to catch her again. I took her to the vet and she then tested positive for FIV. I was devastated. My vet's office didn't help matters as they initially told me I should consider euthanatizing her and that I needed to come home and wash the bathroom down with bleach. They wouldn't even let me come and visit her at the vet while I decided what to do. I started researching. My vet, knowing me, I believe started researching too. I have since joined four FIV groups and have learned a lot.

I cannot have kids, so my cats are my furbabies. I've had five open heart surgeries due to a heart defect. When I had to put Allie, and then Kitty, to sleep, I can tell you that those were the worst experiences in my life. My vet knows what extent I go to for my furbabies, so I believe that is where his caution came from initially.

So I researched, and talked to people in the FIV groups, I prayed, and I spoke to rescues, vets, and my local humane society. I found out that there are a lot of people who have mixed households. I was very concerned about transmission. I wanted to learn about the FIV vaccine. Anything that I could learn, I wanted to know.

Let me start with one thing before I forget. I don't know where you live or how cold it gets, but if you are going to have a house for him outside, please bring in the blankets. You should use straw as bedding. Towels and blankets will trap moisture and will actually make them more cold. Straw acts as an insulator. It has to be straw, and not hay. I learned about this when I was looking into houses for the neighborhood cats. I had two cats make it through the polar vortex we had by staying in their straw filled houses. I did check on them every couple of hours and gave them warmed canned food every couple of hours. I did try to get them to come into my garage, but they wouldn't.

About the FIV vaccine, it is not 100%. One HUGE downfall to this vaccine is that if it is given to your negative cats, they will then test positive for FIV in the future. If they would ever get lost, and ended up at a shelter or humane society, sadly they would probably be put to sleep. There is also some debate in regards to vaccine site carcinomas.

I have read that if you don't have a room that you can put one in, there are other options. One is a cage, as suggested by others. I have read also on various sites that since FIV isn't transmitted through sneezing or hissing, you can separate the cats using a baby gate. The only problem that I see with this is if the cats could jump over the baby gate. Maybe you could put the baby gate on the bottom of the door, and then tape cardboard up over the rest of the opening. Then they can still see and smell each other, but won't have physical contact just yet.

I had a spare bedroom that I put my little girl in. I got her fixed and then put her in the bedroom for several weeks. This gave her time to heal and get used to the smells and sounds of my home. I have seven other cats, so she heard some of the talk and had time to distress from being in one home, then living outside, then at the vet, and then back in my home. It also gave time for any other illness that she may have had to appear. After several weeks. I would bring her outside of the room. I would hold her and walk around the house. I started very slowly in just one room. I gave her time to look around. I slowly added another room, and then another. Then after several weeks of doing this, I would bring her out and sit with her on the couch, or on the bed, or on the floor. I wouldn't let her get down or away from me and run around. The other cats saw her and got used to seeing her and her scent.

This whole process took about two months. Then I slowly let her out of the room on her own. I would watch her and if it seemed like any of the cats were getting upset, I would either pick her up until they calmed down or put her back in the room for a bit to give them time to destress. 

She now is out pretty much all of the time except when I go to work. The main reason why I put her back in the room then is because of my other cats can have his moods where he runs after another cat. My FIV girl is small, and is only about 8 or 9 months old. She is a little tabby and he is a big Maine Coone.

I have Comfort Zone plug ins and I also got some Composure chews and liquid. I have a couple that get stressed more easily, so when I first started the introductions, and now as needed, I give the calming treats and liquid to the ones that need it. I have one cat who will not eat the calming treats, but will lap up the liquid, so that is why I use both.

When I decided to keep my little girl, I decided that I would take this one day at a time. It isn't a race to get them all living together in a day, or a week, or even a month or more. Every cat, and owner too I believe, has their own pace that they all feel comfortable with. Go slow. If you need to take a step back, take a step back. It's better to go to slow, then to fast and have a disaster. I now have eight cats. I have a very small, one floor house. I got a lot of cat trees to help them all feel like they have space. I also set up several feeding stations throughout my house in order to help reduce stress and tension over the food.

I hope this helps. If you have any questions, please don't hesitate to ask. I was in your shoes and scared to death. I have found that there are a lot of homes with mixed furbabies. The key is a slow, careful introduction, just like you would do with bringing in any new cat.

I'm sorry this is so long. I hope this helps.

Here is Orville's shelter for the moment.  I'm mostly concerned his FIV status will make him more susceptible to the health effects of winter weather and that is factoring into my decision.

Ralphscats said:

 
Hello,

I am sorry that I haven't been on the site for a few months. I wish I would have seen your post sooner!!

I can totally relate to you as I was in the exact same position that you are now in. Very long story short, I rescued a cat. She tested negative. My neighbors wanted her as I already had seven indoor cats. They decided she wanted to go on a walk. Long story short, she ended up getting loose and was living in my back yard again. It took me over a month to catch her again. I took her to the vet and she then tested positive for FIV. I was devastated. My vet's office didn't help matters as they initially told me I should consider euthanatizing her and that I needed to come home and wash the bathroom down with bleach. They wouldn't even let me come and visit her at the vet while I decided what to do. I started researching. My vet, knowing me, I believe started researching too. I have since joined four FIV groups and have learned a lot.

I cannot have kids, so my cats are my furbabies. I've had five open heart surgeries due to a heart defect. When I had to put Allie, and then Kitty, to sleep, I can tell you that those were the worst experiences in my life. My vet knows what extent I go to for my furbabies, so I believe that is where his caution came from initially.

So I researched, and talked to people in the FIV groups, I prayed, and I spoke to rescues, vets, and my local humane society. I found out that there are a lot of people who have mixed households. I was very concerned about transmission. I wanted to learn about the FIV vaccine. Anything that I could learn, I wanted to know.

Let me start with one thing before I forget. I don't know where you live or how cold it gets, but if you are going to have a house for him outside, please bring in the blankets. You should use straw as bedding. Towels and blankets will trap moisture and will actually make them more cold. Straw acts as an insulator. It has to be straw, and not hay. I learned about this when I was looking into houses for the neighborhood cats. I had two cats make it through the polar vortex we had by staying in their straw filled houses. I did check on them every couple of hours and gave them warmed canned food every couple of hours. I did try to get them to come into my garage, but they wouldn't.

About the FIV vaccine, it is not 100%. One HUGE downfall to this vaccine is that if it is given to your negative cats, they will then test positive for FIV in the future. If they would ever get lost, and ended up at a shelter or humane society, sadly they would probably be put to sleep. There is also some debate in regards to vaccine site carcinomas.

I have read that if you don't have a room that you can put one in, there are other options. One is a cage, as suggested by others. I have read also on various sites that since FIV isn't transmitted through sneezing or hissing, you can separate the cats using a baby gate. The only problem that I see with this is if the cats could jump over the baby gate. Maybe you could put the baby gate on the bottom of the door, and then tape cardboard up over the rest of the opening. Then they can still see and smell each other, but won't have physical contact just yet.

I had a spare bedroom that I put my little girl in. I got her fixed and then put her in the bedroom for several weeks. This gave her time to heal and get used to the smells and sounds of my home. I have seven other cats, so she heard some of the talk and had time to distress from being in one home, then living outside, then at the vet, and then back in my home. It also gave time for any other illness that she may have had to appear. After several weeks. I would bring her outside of the room. I would hold her and walk around the house. I started very slowly in just one room. I gave her time to look around. I slowly added another room, and then another. Then after several weeks of doing this, I would bring her out and sit with her on the couch, or on the bed, or on the floor. I wouldn't let her get down or away from me and run around. The other cats saw her and got used to seeing her and her scent.k about two months. Then I slowly let her out of the room on her own. I would watch her and if it seemed like any of the cats were getting upset, I would either pick her up until they calmed down or put her back in the room for a bit to give them time to destress. 

She now is out pretty much all of the time except when I go to work. The main reason why I put her back in the room then is because of my other cats can have his moods where he runs after another cat. My FIV girl is small, and is only about 8 or 9 months old. She is a little tabby and he is a big Maine Coone.

I have Comfort Zone plug ins and I also got some Composure chews and liquid. I have a couple that get stressed more easily, so when I first started the introductions, and now as needed, I give the calming treats and liquid to the ones that need it. I have one cat who will not eat the calming treats, but will lap up the liquid, so that is why I use both.

When I decided to keep my little girl, I decided that I would take this one day at a time. It isn't a race to get them all living together in a day, or a week, or even a month or more. Every cat, and owner too I believe, has their own pace that they all feel comfortable with. Go slow. If you need to take a step back, take a step back. It's better to go to slow, then to fast and have a disaster. I now have eight cats. I have a very small, one floor house. I got a lot of cat trees to help them all feel like they have space. I also set up several feeding stations throughout my house in order to help reduce stress and tension over the food.

I hope this helps. If you have any questions, please don't hesitate to ask. I was in your shoes and scared to death. I have found that there are a lot of homes with mixed furbabies. The key is a slow, careful introduction, just like you would do with bringing in any new cat.

I'm sorry this is so long. I hope this helps.

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Thank you for taking the time to share you story.  It does help. I had noticed that the blankets did not feel "warm" to me after he left the shelter.  Over Christmas, my guests could see the dilemma I'm facing. Orville would sit at the patio glass door and look in.  His sweet round face appealed to everyone. He wasn't afraid of people coming to the door to look at him, but if they opened the door to go outside for any reason, he would run off.  My visiting friends said I should bring him in. I'm really considering it. He's so sweet-natured now. He an Chaucer don't use claws when the play through the door (it is opened a crack for their noses to touch and they can "swat-play." When the screen is the only barrier, they touch paws and they do have claws out but that is to pick at the screen. I was thinking about a larger dog crate and making an introduction in the house with Chaucer in his harness and leash. Henryetta will just hiss, growl and hide but she won't attack. 

If Orville wasn't FIV+, he would already be inside.  My vet wasn't thrilled about my bringing Orville in, but like you I did research. One of my guests, while not a virologist, is a microbiologist with some knowledge of virology. She felt it would be okay for me to have Orville inside, particularly if there was not real fighting.  My vet told me that the virus could be caught from sharing water and food due to the saliva, but admitted that was a very small risk.  It is supposed to get cold here in the next week or so (lucky I live in the south) and I'm hoping to do a trial run in a few days - after the Christmas decorations come down!

You are right about the cold weather. I just had my FIV girl to the vet a couple of weeks ago for a check up and to put soft paws on her claws. My vet said it is stressing for them to have to go through the temperature changes. Granted I'm in Ohio, so I'm sure it's much harder on cats up here than down South.
In doing my research, I probably talked to close to 75 people who have mixed households. I have found that there are hundreds, if not more, homes that have mixed households. There is currently even a study where they are trying to get 1000's FIV cats to see their living arrangements and health issues. The last time I checked they had over 600 cats signed up. The leading health issues so far are dental and respiratory issues. FIV cats can have other issues, but so can any other cat. Last year I had to put Kitty to sleep due to cancer. She did not have FIV.
If you google Maddie's fund, I believe, they recently did a study on mixed households.
As I have said, I have spoken to a lot of people. One of the people that I spoke to owns a FIV rescue in Georgia, FBC FIV Cat Sanctuary. She has been doing this for over twenty years and has probably had hundreds of cats in the sanctuary. She told me they have had one transmission, which she is still upset about. It happened as a result of a cat aggravating another one and just kept at it until there was a horrible fight. She said it took the cats months to recover, it was bad. In another group I found someone that did have a transmission but they let their cat in and out of their home, so it is very possible that it picked it up from a cat outside the home. There was another case where the cat got it but I believe was 18 when he tested positive. He is now 19. I think there was one other case. She wasn't sure how it was transmitted, but she thought there might have been a fight, but she wasn't sure.
I wanted to hear and learn from people who are actually doing this. I listened to my vet at first, and then I started researching. In my opinion, vets have some knowledge but they aren't living this day in and day out. Most vets say euthanize, so if you don't have a FIV friendly vet, they are only going to go on what they learned in vet school and that isn't necessarily always correct.
I thought, how are all of these people doing this? From talking to everyone their experiences were not at all what I had expected after listening to my vet. One vet tech wouldn't even let me come and visit my little girl. They had her in quarantine! After much thought and prayer, I called the vet and said I was keeping her. From that time several months ago to now, the vet's office I believe has done some researching too. The last visit wasn't all doom and gloom. It was take her home and love her for as long as you can, just like your other cats. Will she need more care? Probably, but that's why it's important to be proactive and help them stay as healthy as can be.
When I started to talk to these other FIV owners, I was expecting a bunch of sick cats. Talking to them made me realize that FIV cats can live like other cats. I realized that they could live with other negative cats too. Otherwise, I thought, I wouldn't have found what I found. There weren't a bunch of sick cats. Is there a chance that one of our negatives may get it? Yes, but that is why you do the slow introductions.
I also asked these other people how they fed them. The majority of people have their cats sharing the same food, water and litterboxes. I think that where the vets and others get confused is with FIV and FeLV. FeLV is spread by food and water dishes. I have even found some people who house positive and negative FeLV cats together without transmission. That is something that I personally would not be comfortable with.
Everyone has their own comfort level and amount of risk that they are willing to take. What made me decide to mix was that I just didn't see the evidence of not to mix. Now if I would have found 50 or even 25 percent transmission, then that wouldn't have been something that I would be comfortable with. I didn't find anything close to that. I'm not saying it never happens, but it's not what I was expecting.
So now I am taking steps to keep all of my furbabies in the best health I can. I feed grain free kibble as a treat. Their main food is either grain free canned or raw that has been treated with HPP. My FIV girl loves raw!!
Oh, on another note, my Maddie who is FIV negative, had blood in her stool too. I put her on raw and Primal goat's milk and it went away.
I'm also working on finding a good probiotic and I got some coconut oil today. The coconut oil is supposed to really help their mouths. I'm also researching water additives to help with dental issues. I'm doing these things as hopefully preventative measures not just for my FIV girl, but for all of them.
I'm sorry I've rambled on. If you have any questions at all, please do not hesitate to ask and I will do my best to help!

I'm with you. I have several FIV+ cats and as long as we keep them healthy, there have been no transmissions to our FIV- cats.