Need input - FIV+ and FIV- cats living together. Risks/Concerns

catwoman707 · Jan 25, 2016

Rather than commit yourself to one thing and feel you must do just that, take it as it comes, see how you feel, how the cats feel, just play it out with intent on having him inside, but it doesn't necessarily have to be set in stone either.

It's clear that you are caring for him and even if it means coming in randomly, or going out while you're gone, whatever works for all of you is good.

At least you now know that they will get along fine, so just take it as it comes, however it works out best for all, there's no time limit or hurry, when or if you feel right is when and what it will be

My goal is to help give you support and knowledge about mixing pos and neg cats together, but not to convince you that bringing him inside for good all the time is what you should do, that is your decision completely of course.

If/when, keep that in mind

chaucer · Jan 26, 2016

catwoman707 said:
If he barely moved or turned to look at her, she growled. He was nonplussed by this and continued to eat while she sniffed him. This is the closest she has EVER gotten to him. I think he is used to females hissing. The two spayed females he kind of hung out with hissed if he got too close. He, like Chaucer, is a very friendly, playful cat. I don't know why I'm even hesitating about all of this, but I suspect his condition is playing into, plus I just never imagined I'd have three indoor cats and I worry about my furniture and other things that are out. I don't have a cat-proof house!

And you all might be able to see why I think they are related, possibly litter mates. He has that same black mark on his leg too and her tabby side matches his. Their sweet dispositions (to me) are the same too.

talkingpeanut · Jan 26, 2016

Just wanted to say that I think you're doing an amazing job. I think as they all continue to acclimate you'll think less about having three cats and more about your pack, which happens to have three cats.

catwoman707 · Jan 26, 2016

Chaucer said:
If he barely moved or turned to look at her, she growled. He was nonplussed by this and continued to eat while she sniffed him. This is the closest she has EVER gotten to him. I think he is used to females hissing. The two spayed females he kind of hung out with hissed if he got too close. He, like Chaucer, is a very friendly, playful cat. I don't know why I'm even hesitating about all of this, but I suspect his condition is playing into, plus I just never imagined I'd have three indoor cats and I worry about my furniture and other things that are out. I don't have a cat-proof house!

And you all might be able to see why I think they are related, possibly litter mates. He has that same black mark on his leg too and her tabby side matches his. Their sweet dispositions (to me) are the same too.

This is actually a breakthrough, it means she is attempting to familiarize herself to this new guy, rather than keeping her distance and him at bay, waiting it out until he goes away.

Basically recognizing that he just might need investigating while keeping her "Princess Henryetta" position, ie don't even look my way while I am near you!

I'm sure that your reservations about Chaucer and him getting acquainted to the point of playing/wrestling is due to the fiv, at least it sure would be a huge factor for me!

There will come a time though that it will happen, and as hard as it will be to let it happen, just remember that play fighting is not going to bring on deep bleeding bite wounds.

That is of course unless one cat were a very aggressive, very rough type player and accidentally bit down too hard, but I don't see either one like that.

They both clearly understand correct interacting with other cats and boundaries.

chaucer · Jan 26, 2016

talkingpeanut said:
Just wanted to say that I think you're doing an amazing job. I think as they all continue to acclimate you'll think less about having three cats and more about your pack, which happens to have three cats.

Thank you! That's kind of you to say.

catwoman707 said:
This is actually a breakthrough, it means she is attempting to familiarize herself to this new guy, rather than keeping her distance and him at bay, waiting it out until he goes away.

Basically recognizing that he just might need investigating while keeping her "Princess Henryetta" position, ie don't even look my way while I am near you!

I'm sure that your reservations about Chaucer and him getting acquainted to the point of playing/wrestling is due to the fiv, at least it sure would be a huge factor for me!

There will come a time though that it will happen, and as hard as it will be to let it happen, just remember that play fighting is not going to bring on deep bleeding bite wounds.

That is of course unless one cat were a very aggressive, very rough type player and accidentally bit down too hard, but I don't see either one like that.

They both clearly understand correct interacting with other cats and boundaries.

I mostly work from home and things were going well until the man who does my yard came to the door. Orville disappeared. I finally found him (Orville, not the gardener) under the guestroom bed. I finally convinced him to come out from there, but he's been hiding behind the living room sofa ever since, coming out briefly to watch Chaucer play. It's to be expected that he is terribly afraid of people. Henryetta still is and it has been over a year that she's been in the house. She's just now getting a little better with my out-of-state guests who come here for a few days every few months. It's sad to see that fear.

chaucer · Jan 27, 2016

It was okay leaving them alone for two hours last night. He wanted out when I got home so I let him. This morning I think he is testing to see if I will let him in and out at will. Yes, and no. He went out to use the leaves once this morning and then to see the neighbor's cat who had come for a snack. She's a hissy girl too. I took a cue from the leaf pile, went out and got leaves and straw from the pile he was using, brought them and put them in a litter box. Currently, both Orville and Chaucer are examining the leaves together. Chaucer is more interested than Orville.

Leaving them alone in the house for an hour or two is helping me handle this. Orville is still kind of bullying with Chaucer but he's kind of funny with Henryetta. He's gotten tired of her hissy fits and occasionally rushes at her, only to do what I can only liken to a misguided attempt to sliding in first base. He runs, she hisses and growls, he suddenly slides to stop a few feet from her and then backs up.

zed xyzed · Jan 27, 2016

this quite the adventure, I am always checking to see what's new, and every update has something interesting to or humouring going on. Keep it coming

chaucer · Jan 28, 2016

Zed Xyzed said:
this quite the adventure, I am always checking to see what's new, and every update has something interesting to or humouring going on. Keep it coming

Thanks. I'm a writer, so....long-winded.

This morning, I heard the loud meows. Uh oh. Racing to the living room, I watched -and tried to get a towel under him, which, of course, was futile- Orville throw up four times on my living room rug. He wasn't sick. He had just gorged himself on a lot of food. He managed to eat his food and Chaucer's food and Henryetta's food this morning. So, 1.5 cans of wet food and nearly a cup of dry. The dry is left out for the day for Chaucer and Henryetta because Chaucer doesn't eat a lot at one time and Henryetta likes to graze. Orville had to go out last night at 9:00 PM afer having been in the house since 5:30 that morning and no litter box. As he'd eaten a lot during the day, I didn't put food out for him when I let him for the night. I suppose since I was late (7:00 AM) getting up and letting him in, he thought he was going to starve and gorged himself. At least he didn't throw up on the hardwood floors, but why couldn't he have done it on the tile floors! Knowing from experience in apartments with light carpet, I rushed to clean it up so it wouldn't stain, using an entire bottle of white vinegar. I was also worried because of his FIV that the other cats might eat the near-solid dry food (which was what he threw up, thank goodness) so I was very diligent hunting for any more pieces. Yuck!

Henryetta is getting used to him. Yesterday morning, I was getting dressed to go out when Orville who had been sitting in the window decided to jump on the bed with Chaucer and Henryetta. It was brief. Henryetta hissed and growled and seconds later, Orville had jumped down, but I still find it to be a breakthrough. This morning, Henryetta sat in the side window and Orville was sitting in the picture window. They were just a few feet apart.

pushylady · Jan 28, 2016

Chaucer said:
Henryetta is getting used to him. Yesterday morning, I was getting dressed to go out when Orville who had been sitting in the window decided to jump on the bed with Chaucer and Henryetta. It was brief. Henryetta hissed and growled and seconds later, Orville had jumped down, but I still find it to be a breakthrough. This morning, Henryetta sat in the side window and Orville was sitting in the picture window. They were just a few feet apart.

Hey, that's a breakthrough for sure! :clap:

He sounds like such a friendly chap; I hope they all become a happy family. Or at least one where each member politely tolerates the other, which is more than some human families I know! :lol3:

chaucer · Jan 28, 2016

pushylady said:
Hey, that's a breakthrough for sure!

He sounds like such a friendly chap; I hope they all become a happy family. Or at least one where each member politely tolerates the other, which is more than some human families I know!

Orville is a really good cat, and he is social and friendly, at least he wants to be with other cats. Fortunately, Chaucer is the same way.

I called the vet and asked about Orville's scooting. It's not really very normal because he is not skid-marking. If he keeps on, I get to try and contain him in the crate again (Oh boy!) and take him in without an appointment. They said they will have to sedate him since he freaked out when he was taken in for his neutering.

By the way, I call Henryetta "PushyCat" because when she wants affection she won't take "no" for an answer!

zed xyzed · Jan 28, 2016

Zed Xyzed said:
this quite the adventure, I am always checking to see what's new, and every update has something interesting to or humouring going on. Keep it coming

Chaucer said:
Thanks. I'm a writer, so....long-winded.

This morning, I heard the loud meows. Uh oh. Racing to the living room, I watched -and tried to get a towel under him, which, of course, was futile- Orville throw up four times on my living room rug. He wasn't sick. He had just gorged himself on a lot of food. He managed to eat his food and Chaucer's food and Henryetta's food this morning. So, 1.5 cans of wet food and nearly a cup of dry. The dry is left out for the day for Chaucer and Henryetta because Chaucer doesn't eat a lot at one time and Henryetta likes to graze. Orville had to go out last night at 9:00 PM afer having been in the house since 5:30 that morning and no litter box. As he'd eaten a lot during the day, I didn't put food out for him when I let him for the night. I suppose since I was late (7:00 AM) getting up and letting him in, he thought he was going to starve and gorged himself. At least he didn't throw up on the hardwood floors, but why couldn't he have done it on the tile floors! Knowing from experience in apartments with light carpet, I rushed to clean it up so it wouldn't stain, using an entire bottle of white vinegar. I was also worried because of his FIV that the other cats might eat the near-solid dry food (which was what he threw up, thank goodness) so I was very diligent hunting for any more pieces. Yuck!

Henryetta is getting used to him. Yesterday morning, I was getting dressed to go out when Orville who had been sitting in the window decided to jump on the bed with Chaucer and Henryetta. It was brief. Henryetta hissed and growled and seconds later, Orville had jumped down, but I still find it to be a breakthrough. This morning, Henryetta sat in the side window and Orville was sitting in the picture window. They were just a few feet apart.

I just read what I wrote, wow, that made no sense. I am glad you were able to figure out what I was saying. There is a reason why I shouldn't post from my cell phone

chaucer · Jan 29, 2016

Know the feeling. If it makes you feel any better, I only discovered recently that there is an edit button. For the past year, I've been cringing over my typos, missing letters, etc., but thought I had to leave them!

Orville is wanting back outside more and I'm sort of sad about this; however, Chaucer and Henryetta are delighted. Orville has such a bombastic personality and he is so big that he takes over the food, toys, games and just everything when he is inside.

They don't stand a chance even though Orville is not mean about it. He is still not using the litter box inside though. The vet said it was okay that he goes 12 hours or more without needing to go because cats sleep long stretches, especially when tired like he must be from living outdoors so long. I'm overly cautious because of the FIV. I still need to get him there for another examination. His sides noticeably stick out so it needs to be determined if it is caused by fat, worms or something else. I'm guessing fat.

pushylady · Jan 29, 2016

Chaucer said:
By the way, I call Henryetta "PushyCat" because when she wants affection she won't take "no" for an answer!

I love cats who demand attention!

catsnip404 · Jan 29, 2016

Just getting caught back up on here, and wow, I am so happy about the progress that has been made!

I wonder though, is it possible that Orville might be using the litter box without your noticing? Also, I liked your idea of getting the leaves/soil from where he went outside. I think that's better than getting the potting soil. I think dirt from your own yard would have more of a familiar smell and not likely have fertilizers/chemicals/etc.

It does sound like they are all doing the normal things cats do to get used to each other. I understand why it's scary, but what convinced me about introducing an FIV+ cat to my FIV- cats, is that with all of the cats that I've introduced, and I mean back when I knew a lot less about cat behavior and just sort of threw them together with no thought to "introducing" them, I've never ONCE had a deep bite wound, which is what would be necessary to transmit FIV. I'm not going to say it CAN'T happen when two cats are introduced, so that's why I'm going to take it slow, just in case this is one of those rare cases, but from your pictures and postings, it sounds like it's all going very well!

I can't remember--do you have a Feliway diffuser? And if so, is it the regular one or the multi-cat? Even if you don't, it sounds like things are going fine. The only reason I asked is because I noticed with my four girls, two had always slept with each other, and now since I've gotten Feliway, a third snuggles up with those two. The fourth, Martha, never liked anyone but my Pomeranian than has since died, sadly. She used to play "chase" and wrestle with him. She knew him since she was 8 weeks old, and at the time my only other cat was an elderly girl that didn't want to play.

Oh, and that reminds me of something! LOL! You said, you didn't really want to become a multi-cat household. Giggles! I won't bore you with the minute details that I love to remember, but it does creep up on you, one beloved animal at a time. I started off with one cat, Patches. And then a Pomeranian dog named Rocco.

Then another kitten, Martha, that loved to play with Rocco. Two cats, one dog.

Then a cat that lived in my Dad's barn and when he died and I took her in, Mama. Three cats, one dog.

Then Patches died. Two cats, one dog.

Then Rocco died. Two cats.

Then an 8-week-old kitten that chased my neighbors in the pre-dawn hours while they were jogging because she was so hungry and cold (she was shivering and the vet said she had eaten nothing but grass for three days!!), Nadya. Three cats.

Then because Nadya harassed my older kitties so badly I realized she needed a friend of her own age to play with and adopted another kitten, Julia. Four cats. Or perhaps, "two pairs".

And now, a semi-feral, Nero, that clearly needed a home....five cats....

Each and every one has brought joy to my life. I never thought I'd be the owner of "five cats" and being unmarried with no children, I've wondered where "crazy cat lady" begins....LOL!

It does get expensive, but there are options for lower-cost shots, etc. Anything you can provide for your three will be better then what they could get on their own and I'm so glad they have you!

As far as Nero, I took him in last week for his first major checkup and full bloodwork. He needed his teeth cleaned, and this is important for FIV cats, so that was done. He's estimated to be 7 or 8 years old, but his bloodwork looked really, really good. When they shaved his front leg for the anasthetic for his dental cleaning they said they saw a lot of scars, so clearly he had been on his own for a long time and is how he got his FIV.

I had the super-duper tests done for absolute confirmation of FIV and FeLV and he did come back truly positive for the FIV. I wished the original might be a false positive, but wasn't holding my breath. Now I know for sure. I'm still waiting for the FeLV test. If that comes back negative in the next few days I'm going to start introducing him to my girls.

Miss Julia will be his first "dinner date" as she is the most cat-friendly. LOL!! I'm just thinking now that introducing him to my girls all in turn is going to be like the cat version of The Bachelor. LOL!! I should video them and then edit the videos to put the "thought bubbles" above their heads!

Ultimately, I think it will go fine, but like you, I'm going to proceed with an overabundance of caution, just to be sure.

Stay tuned for The Cat Bachelor next week! XD

kittyluv387 · Jan 29, 2016

CatSnip404 said:

OMG that's so sad! Eating nothing but grass for 3 days??? So glad you took him in! Stories of cats eating grass/rocks because they are so hungry makes me sad.

catsnip404 · Jan 29, 2016

Yes, my neighbors were jogging through our subdivision and as they got towards the main fast road, they noticed a little kitten was chasing them meowing. And they knew they couldn't lead this kitten onto the main road so they picked it up and jogged back. As they approached our houses they saw me out walking my dog and called to me and said, "We don't know what to do with this kitten!" One was allergic and the other had a dog, and I took it into my hands and it was late November and it was shivering. And so I said, "You just bring it here." And I warmed her up and gave her some food and brought her to the vet immediately when they opened and the vet took a stool sample and said this kitten was about 8 weeks old had eaten nothing but grass for three days. So some a-hole must have dropped a litter off. No 8-week-old kitten is going to run outside by itself. I hope the others found homes too.

catsnip404 · Jan 29, 2016

Really, I give Nadya credit for saving herself. She ran after my neighbors while they were jogging. What kitten does that except one that is desperate enough and brave enough to do that? To this day, she hides even when there is work done in the next yard over, so she must really have been throwing herself out there in desperation hoping for mercy.

kittyluv387 · Jan 29, 2016

CatSnip404 said:
Really, I give Nadya credit for saving herself. She ran after my neighbors while they were jogging. What kitten does that except one that is desperate enough and brave enough to do that? To this day, she hides even when there is work done in the next yard over, so she must really have been throwing herself out there hoping for mercy.

Yes she was a brave little hungry kitty. And your neighbors were great too. They didn't just leave the kitty behind!

catsnip404 · Jan 29, 2016

Yes, I have some great neighbors, and since then I've gotten into TNR and they are very supportive of it as well.

chaucer · Jan 30, 2016

CatSnip404 said:
Yes, I have some great neighbors, and since then I've gotten into TNR and they are very supportive of it as well.

So thrilled to see the update on Nero! I didn't know there were other tests to definitely confirm FIV. Loved your "How I got" stories. I just can't have another cat. So far, no cats other than my neighbor's spayed pair stop by for a snack, and occasionally a very large gray/white tabby who must be Orville's sibling. I've decided it must be a spayed female because of all the growling at the door! Sounds like the neighbor's pair and Henryetta.

Can't wait for your "Cat Bachelor" thread. Which forum will it be in? In the ferals forum, I've got the Henryetta/Chaucer dating in my original Caring for a Semi-Feral thread, I think.

Orville's got a missing tooth in front so I wonder if that was from trying to eat a rock. It's very sad when people abandon cats, let alone kittens. Thanks to Catwoman707's observations on their behaviors, it's pretty clear Henryetta and Orville were abandoned. They both adapted/are adapting well to the house, and both were quick to do so. Orville watches Henryetta to see what to do, which surprises me because he is close to Chaucer. And that brings me to a scary but sweet breakthrough with those two. I was lying on the sofa watching television early last night. Chaucer was curled up against the sofa back and next to my feet. Orville jumped up on the sofa with us, stretched out on my lower legs next to Chaucer. They were actually touching each other. At one point, Chaucer sniffed Orville and then put his paws on him. Orville turned his head and opened his mouth to bite but didn't. They laid together peacefully. It was sweet, but the scary part was the thought if Orville and Chaucer were startled and Orville ended up clawing my legs through the blanket. I had them both move shortly after that thought. Next week it is going to storm so Orville will have to stay in at night.

Need input - FIV+ and FIV- cats living together. Risks/Concerns

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