How worried should I be about FIP?

axlroz said:

Thanks @Carinajosefine I appreciate the information about the meds so I can explore those as well. So far we have tried 3 meds but not that one. My biggest concern is her eyes. Going back to the vet tonight.
@Perididdle did you call the vet as well?

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I just did. =) We're going back in the morning to get bloodwork. Fingers crossed we find something treatable and can get him on the right course of action, but also we hope to get a little more peace of mind if everything else is back clear but the markers for FIP are off the charts, or something. I know it's impossible to 'diagnose' FIP for sure, though.

I'm already anxious about getting him out from under the bed -- he wants nothing to do with us and no amount of calling or treat dangling attracts him. He crawls up into the fabric covering the underside of the frame and makes himself a little hammock. Last time we used a broom to nudge him out of his 'hammock' and I grabbed him...I have to scratches all over my hands to prove it. And it was lucky that we even got a hold of him. Oof...

In the bloodwork, the vet will be looking for the globulin level to be high. If greater than 5.1 gm/dl, the chances of it having fip are about 90%.

Fluid in tummy is a good way to diagnose fip, the protein level in the fluid is high, as well as the globulin.

But I suspect both of your cats, if it is fip, that it is the dry form, which is so much more frustrating and slower.

The description of the kitty's eyes changing color and becoming cloudy with spots and non reactive to light is seen in dry fip.

About 10-25% will show neurological effects/balance, etc.

More-so in dry form.

I wish you both much luck here, and will be watching for updates.

It hurts me to post this picture, but this was sweet Pallina, she died of dry fip.

See how her eyes changed to that red color? Her left more than the right.

Not all fip does this, it simply depends on the organs it is attacking.


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catwoman707 said:

 
In the bloodwork, the vet will be looking for the globulin level to be high. If greater than 5.1 gm/dl, the chances of it having fip are about 90%.

Fluid in tummy is a good way to diagnose fip, the protein level in the fluid is high, as well as the globulin.

But I suspect both of your cats, if it is fip, that it is the dry form, which is so much more frustrating and slower.

The description of the kitty's eyes changing color and becoming cloudy with spots and non reactive to light is seen in dry fip.

About 10-25% will show neurological effects/balance, etc.

More-so in dry form.

I wish you both much luck here, and will be watching for updates.

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Thank you so much for the info. I agree that if it's FIP, he likely doesn't have the wet form, as his breathing is fine, no bulging tummy (that we can see), etc. But I will make sure to ask about the globulin levels. 

If it *does* turn out to be FIP (or as close as one can get to knowing), we'll obviously ask our vet about best options. But if he isn't eating much, is reclusive, and is uncomfortable -- is there anything that can be done to make him feel better or prolong his time comfortably? Or is it late stage at this point and nothing can be done?

Of course hoping we get clear signs of an infection we can take care of, or something. He's such a good kitty. Really, really hoping he's with us for many more years.

If cat is still eating on his own, it's in early enough stage that steroids can prolong his discomfort when it's dry fip since it can be slow, sometimes taking several months to advance to where it's 'time', but the vet would base it on how advanced it is according to test levels and eating of course, but it's always the most important thing to remain aware of quality of life, if there is more feeling good time then not good, hiding and antisocial behavior as well as lack of eating, we never want to see them suffering, and cats are excellent at hiding their pain or suffering.

It's tough, no doubt about that, trying to remain clear on when is appropriate vs when we are ready to let them go.

Something that I share with people in hopes of bringing a bit of comfort to you is how a cat does not see death as we do. They have great survival instincts yes, but death is easily accepted, they know when they are not well, they don't mourn as we do, and I take this to heart. One reason why they will simply go off to die.

We mourn for ourselves, our loss, how much we will miss them and how unfair it is to have their life cut short. That's human nature, and no changing that of course.

I am thankful to know they don't feel these things, another reason why it's important to do your best to be brave for them. They ARE sensitive to our feelings, but wouldn't connect the 2, just that 'mom is upset' which adds stress for them.

Good luck and please update asap.

You're so right, @catwoman707. If he's going to spend the next month wasting away and sad, I absolutely do not want to prolong his discomfort! That was part of why I wanted to ask. I certainly do not want to 'jump the gun,' but I also want to be aware of what the stress level will be on him to try and keep him around. Especially if it's just for "our sake."

Thanks all for your support. I will update as soon as I know more about the little guy tomorrow. Hoping for good news.

Perididdle said:

 
You're so right, @catwoman707. If he's going to spend the next month wasting away and sad, I absolutely do not want to prolong his discomfort! That was part of why I wanted to ask. I certainly do not want to 'jump the gun,' but I also want to be aware of what the stress level will be on him to try and keep him around. Especially if it's just for "our sake."

Thanks all for your support. I will update as soon as I know more about the little guy tomorrow. Hoping for good news.

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Here is a great link you should read, gives more insight

http://www.chicagonow.com/animals-know/2013/12/do-animals-know-they-are-dying/

Thanks so much for the link. I'm going to peruse it gently before we take him in, just in case.

Sorry for turning this into a journal, I just need a place to put my thoughts I was able to cut into the fabric under the bed and slide him out from his hiding spot. He really did not put up much of a fight -- he felt very weak and floppy. Of course, that could be due to not eating/drinking much for days. =( Poor guy. I immediately wished he was being more feisty! I set him up in the bathroom with towels, his food, litterbox, etc. It'll be so much less traumatic tomorrow to get him in the carrier this way, but of course I have Kitty Parent Guilt for taking him out of his comfort zone. Nothing can ever just be easy, can it?

I'm happy to be getting answers tomorrow, at least. Either we can help heal him from something major, or give him peace if he needs it.

Perididdle said:

Thanks so much for the link. I'm going to peruse it gently before we take him in, just in case.

Sorry for turning this into a journal, I just need a place to put my thoughts I was able to cut into the fabric under the bed and slide him out from his hiding spot. He really did not put up much of a fight -- he felt very weak and floppy. Of course, that could be due to not eating/drinking much for days. =( Poor guy. I immediately wished he was being more feisty! I set him up in the bathroom with towels, his food, litterbox, etc. It'll be so much less traumatic tomorrow to get him in the carrier this way, but of course I have Kitty Parent Guilt for taking him out of his comfort zone. Nothing can ever just be easy, can it?

I'm happy to be getting answers tomorrow, at least. Either we can help heal him from something major, or give him peace if he needs it.

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I appreciate this post as well and have been using it as more of a journal too so I'm glad we can help each other in these times of uncertainty.
catwoman707 what a cute picture. Funny my kitties left eye is worse than the right as well.
Well I had scheduled an appt for this evening with the vet, however after scheduling it received a call from the rescue basically stating that they spoke with the vet and neither want me throwing away money when they strongly feel based off experience this is what we are dealing with. They did provide a supportive ear and answered a few questions and told me I could still go if I wanted. I cancelled the appointment. pretty much it sounds like the vet had not been as upfront with me as they had with the rescue and Now that I know I have more peace and sill just follow kitties lead.
P perididdle if you're like me... Which I think you are... I would just ask the vet to be brutally honest. I know they can't officially diagnose but what they strongly feel would at least be helpful to hear (in my opinion). I think I'll relax on the posts for now since it might be fueling my attempts at finding something else or at least making me feel guilty for not. But I'll check back in and be curious to see how your kitty is doing. Thanks again

Perididdle said:

 
Thanks so much for the link. I'm going to peruse it gently before we take him in, just in case.

Sorry for turning this into a journal, I just need a place to put my thoughts I was able to cut into the fabric under the bed and slide him out from his hiding spot. He really did not put up much of a fight -- he felt very weak and floppy. Of course, that could be due to not eating/drinking much for days. =( Poor guy. I immediately wished he was being more feisty! I set him up in the bathroom with towels, his food, litterbox, etc. It'll be so much less traumatic tomorrow to get him in the carrier this way, but of course I have Kitty Parent Guilt for taking him out of his comfort zone. Nothing can ever just be easy, can it?

I'm happy to be getting answers tomorrow, at least. Either we can help heal him from something major, or give him peace if he needs it.

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The thing is, the vet will give him sub-q fluids which will make him feel much better temporarily.

He's floppy and weak because he is surely dehydrated.

We all get Kitty Parent Guilt. Just sad. It's like you want to leave him be where he seems to want to be, yet don't want him to go through this alone either.

Ugh. No, nothing is ever easy.....

axlroz said:

I appreciate this post as well and have been using it as more of a journal too so I'm glad we can help each other in these times of uncertainty.
@catwoman707 what a cute picture. Funny my kitties left eye is worse than the right as well.
Well I had scheduled an appt for this evening with the vet, however after scheduling it received a call from the rescue basically stating that they spoke with the vet and neither want me throwing away money when they strongly feel based off experience this is what we are dealing with. They did provide a supportive ear and answered a few questions and told me I could still go if I wanted. I cancelled the appointment.

pretty much it sounds like the vet had not been as upfront with me as they had with the rescue and Now that I know I have more peace and sill just follow kitties lead.
@Perididdle if you're like me... Which I think you are... I would just ask the vet to be brutally honest. I know they can't officially diagnose but what they strongly feel would at least be helpful to hear (in my opinion). I think I'll relax on the posts for now since it might be fueling my attempts at finding something else or at least making me feel guilty for not. But I'll check back in and be curious to see how your kitty is doing. Thanks again

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That picture hurts my heart actually. It's a guilt thing. I pulled her off the streets as a feral, but she was tough and not having it so much. I feel like if I had let her be and just tnr'd her back, she would be alive now

I am the same way and use those very words at times, asking for brutal honesty, don't sugar coat anything. I think the vet will be more wishy washy though and not commit to anything unless you ask for his brutally honest OPINION, not veterinary diagnosing per se. 

It does seem to me that your kitty has fip It's in the eyes, I can't help it.

As for perididdle's mom's cat, having a weakened immune system is rather convincing that it's also fip, but at this point without bloodwork done it's too hard to call it just yet.

There are cat viruses around, not so many but there are, they will get in, run their course and be gone.

Usually a 3 day thing. But being fiv it's a bit different.

Was he one of the rare kittens born with it from mom? Or was he rescued as an older teenager with it? (unneutered he would easily have been attacked by a territorial unneutered cat and passed it on to him. It only takes once. Poor unlucky guy

Sure wish people would take responsibility for animals! What a shame.....

Oh he is SO handsome, I just want to maul him.

Does he look the same now or has anything changed at all?

I ask because he appears slightly dehydrated in this pic, he might have already started not eating and drinking enough.

Still the only sign is the fever?

Has it changed at all?

He's so so cute.
The fluids might make him feel better ... But when we tried to give my kitty I'v fluids it apparently hurt worse than its supposed to do they stopped
I read somewhere fip can cause sensitivity to touch... Just something to think about if it's worth all the stress too. You could see how he does.
catwoman707 I had the same guilt about the timing of adopting our kitty. Sometimes I think had I gotten her later the disease may have just run its course without the added stress of a move... No way of knowing though. And I'm sure your cat was much happier in a warm home than on the streets not feeling well... I can't imagine all the stray cats that deal with this while
Out in the cold it's really sad to think about.

This was before he had gone to the vet -- a few days prior. He may have been tapering his intake just slightly. It was, unfortunately, a little hard for us to track where the food decline started. Because he had been eating literally EVERYTHING in sight with his tummy full of roundworms, we expected him to slow down a bit after the second round of de-wormer. So what we may have thought was normal was actually a slow decline.

He looks fairly similar, though more gaunt, I would say. He has definitely lost weight. Can you tell me how I would notice a kitty being dehydrated from a photo? This sounds like useful info to have. I can spot a dehydrated horse from thirty paces, but kitties less so!

Right now I think his only sign is the fever, but we can only track that through his behavior/intake/activity level. I didn't take it today, though I should have in retrospect. I listened to him breathing and he sounded strained after the movement I'd put him through, but not gurgly or anything (*as far as I could tell*, that is -- I'm no expert with sick kitties). I tried to check for a distended tummy and didn't feel like he had one. I was so wrapped up in the emotions of getting him out from under the bed I may have missed something.

I'm definitely thinking fever + reduced intake is taking its toll and causing/worsening some of his problems, even if it is the worst case scenario.

I've just seen my share of dehydrated cats I guess.

Eyes have a bit of a set in look, fur more ruffly than fluffed.

A thin look to his cheek area.

See and I wouldn't have a clue whether a horse was dehydrated!

The strained breathing is very concerning. That is not normal.

I wonder if you could ask the vet what he would charge you for a single view x-ray of his chest/heart?

If it's $50.00 I'd go for it, that is if the bloodwork doesn't show anything specific going on.

A single x-ray can also show if there is fluid buildup in his chest cavity that is causing the breathing issue, restricting the lungs from filling up completely.

You won't hear gurgling either btw. Unless it's from a uri. Won't know if there's fluid or not in chest cavity yourself, but a stethoscope might be able to hear it somewhat.

Regarding the positive fiv test.

Did you say that he tested positive when he was 8 months?

It is highly unusual for a pos cat to show signs at this age. It takes years for their immune system to deteriorate actually.

Hmm. I've been focused on fip but now wondering about the fiv........

The vet is very forthcoming with pricing info and weighing cost vs. benefit, so I will ask her about this if the bloodwork doesn't show anything. This is all good to know. He wasn't wheezing/rattling/gasping or anything, it just seemed not terribly strong. Buuuh. I feel so bad for the poor guy, and now of course wish I'd taken him back sooner. We just hold out hope for a corner to turn.

I'm guessing fluid in the chest would be an FIP thing? Or no?

His appointment is first thing in the morning, 8:15 AM. I tried to get him in this evening, but the spot they had offered us was booked. I need to head to bed and try to get some rest, but I will make sure to update this thread as soon as we know anything. Thank you, again, for all of the help/support.

Glad he is going in the am.

Yes it could mean fip, but can also mean other things. Lung infection, bacterial or viral, will cause this, as well as heart issues.

Tummy fluid is more indicative of fip then chest, but still can be.

I'm very sad to report that we let our little guy go this morning around 9:30 AM. =(

His fever was still at 106 and he had tummy fluid. It drew out a light yellow but was very viscous -- evidence of proteins, we're told. His globulin and protein count in general was high while all of his other organ functions were clean (liver, kidney, pancreas, etc. all seemed in good order). The vet said with all of that in play she felt with 90%+ certainty that he was on the steady decline of FIP, and honestly, they were plenty of signs for us. She offered to help us manage his symptoms, but with the knowledge that it would likely only be a few more weeks and his quality of life would probably slip quite low, we made the tough choice to help him go with peace. He had no chest fluid, at least, so by the time we settled in to say goodbye, he was resting and gently purring for us.

We took him in from the rescue after he had only been there a week or two, and they had a room full of FIV kitties who hadn't yet found a home. I understand that he probably had FIP when we got him, or was working on mutating it, and so if nothing else I'm so happy we were able to give him a comfortable, safe, and loving home for his final months. It's so hard to say goodbye but I have peace knowing he's comfortable now.

Thank you everyone for all of your help and support. It helped me so much in the room when we had a tough decision to make.

im so sorry to hear that. I'm so glad it was peaceful. Gives me hope for when the time comes. Thanks so much for sharing and he was very lucky to have you.

WHat a sad outcome, but Fate sent him to you when he needed you most. and you responded magnificently to the call.

I'm so sorry you have to go through this, fip is just so unfair.

Tummy fluid was present after all, which would be why the breathing seemed strained. 

I'm glad that he was let go knowing he would have continued to suffer with the same outcome anyway.

Hugs to you, you and mom are good cat parents.