Help with feral momma cat and kittens

foreignergrl · Nov 2, 2015

Hello, all.

I have been a reader for years but I have never posted until now. And now, as you have probably guessed, I am in trouble and in need of advice. A momma cat I have been feeding for about a year showed up this morning in my back yard with 5 adorable kittens who can barely walk at this point. They seem healthy and happy and everything would have been fine with that, except that we have lots of raccoons as well coming to the back yard for the cat food, and I was afraid they would eat the kittens. So I lured her inside my back porch with some cooked chicken, ran out there and put all the kitten inside a box and brought them in. She was really stressed for a while trying to climb the screen, but once I brought her kittens in she stopped trying to get out. Now her kittens are all on top of her but her eyes are wide open each time I go out there and she didn't eat, yet. I am assuming she has always been free, so now my question is: did I do the right thing? Is she going to adjust and take care of the kittens? I am so nervous, I can't stop crying and I don't even know why. I don't really like to interfere with nature, but right after I brought the kittens in, one of the raccoons showed up, so leaving her outside with them is really just a tragedy waiting to happen. I have 8 cats inside and I won't allow them in the screened porch for a month or so until I can get everybody fixed and vaccinated. I also work with a catch and release program in my area, but it was after hours when I decided to take the kittens in, so I couldn't ask the catch and release group for advice, as I don't really know them on a personal level. I need to know if I am doing the right thing. Thank you so much.

StefanZ · Nov 3, 2015

foreignergrl said:
Hello, all.

I have been a reader for years but I have never posted until now. And now, as you have probably guessed, I am in trouble and in need of advice. A momma cat I have been feeding for about a year showed up this morning in my back yard with 5 adorable kittens who can barely walk at this point. They seem healthy and happy and everything would have been fine with that, except that we have lots of raccoons as well coming to the back yard for the cat food, and I was afraid they would eat the kittens. So I lured her inside my back porch with some cooked chicken, ran out there and put all the kitten inside a box and brought them in. She was really stressed for a while trying to climb the screen, but once I brought her kittens in she stopped trying to get out. Now her kittens are all on top of her but her eyes are wide open each time I go out there and she didn't eat, yet. I am assuming she has always been free, so now my question is: did I do the right thing? Is she going to adjust and take care of the kittens? I am so nervous, I can't stop crying and I don't even know why. I don't really like to interfere with nature, but right after I brought the kittens in, one of the raccoons showed up, so leaving her outside with them is really just a tragedy waiting to happen. I have 8 cats inside and I won't allow them in the screened porch for a month or so until I can get everybody fixed and vaccinated. I also work with a catch and release program in my area, but it was after hours when I decided to take the kittens in, so I couldn't ask the catch and release group for advice, as I don't really know them on a personal level. I need to know if I am doing the right thing. Thank you so much.

I will answer you later in the day, when Im home from work, in 4-5 hours. Unless you get good advices from others....

Good luck!

foreignergrl · Nov 3, 2015

Thank you. I haven't received any advice at all. It is about 13 hours later and momma cat still hasn't touched her food. I'm not sure wether or not she's feeding them, they are all curled up in a ball, and momma cat is close to them. The kittens are eating momma cat's food, but she won't touch it. I am very worried. Did I do the wrong thing?

StefanZ · Nov 3, 2015

foreignergrl said:
. It is about 13 hours later and momma cat still hasn't touched her food. I'm not sure wether or not she's feeding them, they are all curled up in a ball, and momma cat is close to them. The kittens are eating momma cat's food, but she won't touch it. I am very worried. Did I do the wrong thing?

You are doing the right thing, and Im sure she will calm down further and further. there are tricks, I will mention some of them further down.

As the kittens are eating mommas food, they cant be so very young to be barely walking. I would sooner guess on about 5, perhaps even 6 weeks. This is also the age when the mom is taking them with her to show them the food provider.

Why they are barely walking is perhaps another question.

Anyways. shy cats taken in are very often shy in this way, not eating, not eliminating, hiding.... They dont even need to be semiferales, Shy bought cats may also behave so.

So, does she has somehere to hide a little? A nice own corner, say an sideturened cardboard box, with something soft to lay on?

You can play relaxing music - classical harp music is best, but other may work.

If you can get Feliway diffuser or spray, it may help too...

She knows you as her food provider since earlier, so here you do have a big advantage over somebody else trying to help out...

Talk with soft frieendly voice when you are there... Yawn, strech on yourself - its cats signs of friendliness.

Also, cat moms are like human moms. The safety and wellbeing of her children is most important to her, more important than "freedom". When she notices there are no threats, her children are OK and even thriwing, she will accept the situation and cooperate as long she can. Shy semiferale or not...

Its peculiar, but this miracle of resucers world does happens time and again...

You did right, not only saving the children, but also, giving them NOW a real chance of proper fostering, giving them a good chance to be adopted, to get a future...

Please continue to report, and come with further questions.

Good luck!

foreignergrl said:
Hello, all.

A momma cat I have been feeding for about a year showed up this morning in my back yard with 5 adorable kittens who can barely walk at this point. They seem healthy and happy and everything would have been fine with that, except that we have lots of raccoons as well coming to the back yard for the cat food, and I was afraid they would eat the kittens. So I lured her inside my back porch with some cooked chicken, ran out there and put all the kitten inside a box and brought them in. She was really stressed for a while trying to climb the screen, but once I brought her kittens in she stopped trying to get out. Now her kittens are all on top of her but her eyes are wide open each time I go out there and she didn't eat, yet. I am assuming she has always been free, so now my question is: did I do the right thing? Is she going to adjust and take care of the kittens?

foreignergrl · Nov 3, 2015

Thank you so much for your reply, it meant so much to me!

I had to make a lot of decisions before I read your message, but I was happy after I read it because I had done almost everything you told me to, except for the yawning and stretching and the music. (lol). In the morning I went there and baby talk her very softly and sent her some pieces of chicken. She wouldn't eat at first but I kept talking to her and throwing her some cooked chicken, until it was all gone. I forgot about something last night when I brought her in: she has no idea what a cat box is, so she peed and pooped in the carpet. But I was so happy that she is already eliminating that I really didn't care. I did what I did when I adopted my first feral: brought some dirt and leaves from the corner that she uses as a bathroom. Worked like a charm. I will clean the place where she peed with Simple Green and Nature's Miracle once shes less upset, so that's totally ok.

She is feeding and loving and bathing the kittens. And you're right, the kittens can walk almost perfect already, they are already trying to run, so I'm speculating 5 weeks. I do think it might be 6, but just to be on the safe side I will estimate 5. I saw two kittens trying to drink water as well. So now, my questions are:

1) When should I turn them for adoption?

2) What is the less traumatic way to take them from the mom?

3) Is it ok for the kittens to be eating her dry food?

She does not accept can / moist food, so dry food and chicken is the only thing she will eat.

4) Should I put some formula there too for mom and the kittens?

5) Can I have her spayed as soon as I take the kittens for adoption?

6) Will she be sad / grieving when she comes back and the kittens aren't here anymore?

In time: After I read your message I went there yawned, and stretched and she blinked her eyes really slowly at me. Unfortunately, I can't bring music out there because the kittens will eat the wire, but I am spraying feliway everywhere.

ondine · Nov 3, 2015

You are asking very good questions. The kittens need to stay with her until 10-12 weeks, so they learn to be cats. Earlier isn't impossible, though, as long as they are eating solid food.

If you can, get her kitten kibble. It will replenish her nutrients and will also be good for the kittens. You can soften it with kitten replacement milk (available at the pet store) or goat's milk.

Separating them is always worse for us than them! Moms usually know when it is time for their kids to leave the nest. She may grieve a little but she will be fine.

Are you planning to find homes on your own or is the group helping you? That will certainly help.

Spaying mom will be so much better for her. She does not sound truly feral to me or she would have been bonkers every time you go onto the porch. You may be able to find her a home, too. Fingers crossed!

Thank you so much for helping this little family!

foreignergrl · Nov 3, 2015

Ondine,

Thank you so much for your reply.

I am trying to find them homes, but they are just tabbies, and there is never a high demand for those. The group will be working with me as well, and my local humane society is a no kill (except when the cat is severely sick / aggressive / etc), so I am confident that they will have a fighting chance either way. I do think she is truly feral, it is just that she is used to us for about a year now. I guess she learned to trust us. Her home is really here. She never leaves my backyard at all, unless she is pregnant, which won't be happening again. I already caught and neutered her two boyfriends who also live in my back yard. She absolutely loves her dog house. Unfortunately, it is impossible for us to bring the dog house to the back porch as it is too heavy and I would have to keep the door wide open and risk her escaping. But they have it relatively sweet out there, with two warm dog houses, clean water and food three times a day, cooked chicken and treats. I even have a vet that gives me a huge discount now since I bring him so much business with the ferals I catch all the time to be vaccinated and treated, lol. And they have toys, too! It is a shame that I can't adopt the kittens myself, but I already have 6 cats inside and two who have been vising on a semi-permanent basis. I like to think I'm a very responsible pet owner, and I pay for their healthy insurance and everything, so adopting more would be financially irresponsible of me. But maybe if the semi permanent ones decide they want to live outside, I could adopt at least one. We will see. I don't want to be on my local news as a cat hoarder, lol. Rescuing cats saved my life, so maybe I should be thanking them.

Oh, and I forgot to mention in my previous post that I did put a cardboard box out there for her with a hole as a door, but she does not seem interested in it at all. The good news is that she started eating her dry food again, not just the chicken, so it seems like we all are going to have a well deserved resting night tonight. I will keep reporting back and I would really appreciate any inputs. Thank you so much.

dandila · Nov 4, 2015

Thank you for taking care of these unwanted cats. In the past two years I have begun caring for and neutering any of them that show up at my door. I pulled a female out from under a house last spring with two kittens at about 5 weeks of age last spring. She reacted much like your cat but after 24 hours, all was well. Ondine is right about 10-12 weeks being optimal for adopting out kittens. There is so much that mom teaches them between 8 and 12 weeks. It is so fun to watch her love and play with her kittens. We ended up building a large cat enclosure on the back of our garage and keeping everyone. It is heated and has cat trees, toys, and built in kennels for all of them. I have two of her boyfriends, too.

My vet wanted me to wait to spay the mother until her milk was dried up but if your vet will do it earlier it will save you from having to put up with her coming in heat and pestering you to be let out. Sadly, my female was pregnant again when I had her spayed.

It sounds to me as if you are doing everything right, intuitively. Let us know how things progress!!

foreignergrl · Nov 4, 2015

Dandila, thank you for your reply. That is wonderful that you got to keep the whole family!!! I so wish I could do the same.

It is funny that you said that about the milk drying up. This vet that gives me these huge discounts told me the same thing. I thought he was kidding at first cause she let her previous kittens (these two that have been "visiting" on a semi-permanent basis) cuddle and try to nurse either right up until she got pregnant again or even after she got pregnant. She really only started hissing at her previous kittens after her pregnancy was showing, so that' sounds really odd to me that my vet would say that.

But fortunately. the Humane Society catch and release group doesn't believe in that. I just can't risk her getting pregnant again. I have a 5 year old named Trouble that was abandoned in my backyard after my dog unknowingly scared his mom away, and I swear the momma cat I saw jumping my fence 5 years ago running away from my dog is the same momma cat I have in my porch now. Her kittens even look like my Trouble and the two kittens I have "visiting" on a semi permanent basis even smell like my Trouble. By the way, I bottled fed Trouble since he was one day old, and bottle fed kittens usually grow up to be not very social, since I didn't have any other cats to socialize him with. But it is interesting that he slaps every cat that gets too close to him, but he never slaps those two. It is like he knows they're his brother and sister.

So, I am happy that my local humane society will spay her whenever. They even wanted me to catch the momma and have it done right when she was about to have these kittens, but I just didnt have the heart to do it. I wouldn't have a problem with that if it was earlier in her pregnancy, I just thought it would be too invasive if done a week before she went into labor. That thought didn't sit well with me. When she started spending more and more time here, I thought her kittens didnt survive, and I confess as terrible as it sounds I was a little relieved. And then BAM she shows up with 5 adorable kittens, and I just couldn't let raccoons eat those precious things under my watch. But anyways, I suspect shes having two to three pregnancies a year for over 5 years, that poor thing needs a rest, and so do we. It is very heartbreaking on us when something happens to the kittens and now, that we can't possibly adopt any more, it will be really heartbreaking to let them go.

dandila · Nov 5, 2015

I agree with you about not spaying her when her kittens were nearly ready to deliver. To me, that is sort of like drowning them right after birth as the farmers do with barn cats.

I have to tell you when I took her in for spaying I felt awful. Sort of like I was betraying the trust she gave me. Intellectually, I realized that was rather foolish of me but I couldn't help those feelings. She was such a good mother and seemed like she loved every minute of the process. I took the kittens for their spay and neuter at 16 weeks. All of these cats are black and they don't get adopted easily so my husband was kind enough to offer me the cat enclosure. Such a loving gesture!

The replacement milk that you can buy in a can from Petsmart is also very good for the mother while she's nursing. My mother cat loved it when I poured it over the kitten food. She barely let the kittens have any of it.

CAM00111.jpg

dandila
Jun 17, 2015

These are great cats. All of them are extremely affectionate. I think they were at about 12 - 14 weeks here.

ondine · Nov 5, 2015

I feel the same way. Once a pregnancy gets so far along, I don't have the heart to terminate. Which is why spaying and neutering early is so important. What you are doing for this cat is life saving. Even if you are forced to release the kittens, providing them with food, shelter and love will vastly improve their lives.

Good luck with her spaying and finding homes. I am sending vibes your way!

foreignergrl · Nov 8, 2015

Dandila said:
These are great cats. All of them are extremely affectionate. I think they were at about 12 - 14 weeks here.

-------------------------------------------------------------

Yeah, I wouldn't have a problem with having her spayed while pregnant, but so close to her going into labor, that thought gave me nightmares.

Those are lovely kittens, and they are so lucky to have you! Thank you for adopting them! I love black cats.

We are all heart broken here. We too, wanted to keep the all the kittens, they are so cute and fat and healthy! But it is just not possible for us, since we already have so many inside cats. We are probably keeping the one who looks just like his dad. His dad looks like a long hair russian blue with a bushy tail (lol, we know that doesn't exist, but thats the best way I can describe him), and I always said that it there was one like him it would be mine, so... lucky little thing came out just like his dad, though there is no bushy tail to be found, lol. I am thinking about starting a fund for him instead of adding him to the health insurance. I never adopted for looks, and as a matter of fact, I try to adopt the ugliest ones (if there is such a thing) since I know there is not a lot of demand for them. But this one is just too special for us since we love his dad so much, but his dad will not let us get close at all. He went completely insane the day we caught him to be neutered, and we thought he would never come back after that, but he did. He is getting mellower after the surgery, but he still won't let us touch him. So, I did find good homes for two and now, I have three to re-home, but it is still sad. I wanted all of them.

A friend of mine told me about a vet who tries to get them adopted and eventually takes them to her farm if she is unsuccessful, so that's something to look into as well. Fingers crossed. I know exactly what you mean by feeling you were betraying her trust, I feel like that each time I catch a cat to be fixed. It is such a stressful situation for them, and we wonder about momma cat, what will her life be like when she no longer have kittens, since that's all she's ever known. We know we're doing the right thing, but it is still traumatic and heartbreaking.

Thank you for the suggestion of the replacement milk. I was wondering if that would help or hurt. I'll be getting some tomorrow.

StefanZ · Nov 8, 2015

foreignergrl said:

Re replacement milk.

A good kmr, of if you can get it, goat milk - its too a good alternative suitable for supplement.

foreignergrl · Nov 8, 2015

Ondine said:
I feel the same way. Once a pregnancy gets so far along, I don't have the heart to terminate. Which is why spaying and neutering early is so important. What you are doing for this cat is life saving. Even if you are forced to release the kittens, providing them with food, shelter and love will vastly improve their lives.

Good luck with her spaying and finding homes. I am sending vibes your way!

Thank you. Keep us in your thoughts and keep on sending those vibes, we really do need them.

My fear about releasing them is the raccoons. They are living under our shed it seems and there is no way to catch them to relocate them, we tried just about everything. There are two previous kittens from this same momma cat that had been fixed, vaccinated and had their ears clipped, who suddenly decided to "visit" with us. They are about 6 to 7 months old, a boy, Leo, and a girl, Missy. Well, about a week ago they got restless and we decided to let them out for a couple of days. The next day we heard a horrible scream, it sounded like raccoons fighting and a cat screaming. We ran out there to see what was going on but we didnt see anything. Leo looked sick later on, so we brought them both back in. We tried to figure out what was wrong with him but couldn't. He was eating but he didn't want to be touched and didn't seem to be interested in any playing at all. He got better the next day, so we didn't worry much. Well, yesterday my fear was confirmed. He is ok and playing now but we found a huge wound in his chest. The flesh around the wound is hard and hairless and he doesn't want us to touch there. It looks like one of the raccoons attacked him, just like I suspected. We are taking him to the vet tomorrow first thing. So releasing these babies out here is not an option, that's a tragedy waiting to happen. And Leo and Missy better adjust to their lives inside, cause I can't let that happen again. We pretty much decided to keep one of the babies, too lol, but we are gambling big timehere. Gambling that no one will know we're keeping way too many cats in the house, much more than what's permitted by law. Gambling that these three will stay healthy enough until we build a fund for their vet bills. So, yes. We need all the good vibes we can get.

foreignergrl · Nov 8, 2015

StefanZ said:
Re replacement milk.

A good kmr, of if you can get it, goat milk - its too a good alternative suitable for supplement.

Thank you, I can get KMR, that's what I used to bottle feed my first, Trouble, 5 years ago!

ondine · Nov 8, 2015

I take it you are renting? Otherwise, I know of no law that limits how many cats you can have in your own home. As long as they are cared for, there shouldn't be a problem. That would only start if you couldn't care for them all properly. And some people can't care properly for one cat!

If you are not renting, is there a possibility of creating a catio? It is a screened in/wired in area that the cats. Can have access to. It will keep the raccoons out, too.

If not, making sure they are safe inside would be my priority. Good luck at the vet tomorrow!

foreignergrl · Nov 10, 2015

Ondine, sorry, I've been so busy with the kittens, I just now saw this message. No, I'm not renting. I have a catio already, ha ha. I thought I was crazy when I was screening my porch so that my cats could watch birds and squirrels, so I'm happy I'm not the only one who thought about that. My inside cats never go out, but they can go to the catio whenever they want, except for now because that's where momma cat and her kittens are. My cats aren't happy that they can't use their catio. In my state, I think you can only have 7 animals inside the house without a license. I could be wrong about that, but I'm fairly sure that's correct. Well, we take care of the cats before we take care of us, so we should be ok there, but I still wouldn't risk announcing to everybody how many cats I haveinside right now. LOL!

ondine · Nov 10, 2015

Absolutely no need to apologize. It sounds like you have things covered pretty well. I guess there are laws all over. This one was probably meant to keep people from hoarding, so I can see the sense in it.

I guess you can only keep trying to find them homes and taking care of them in the meantime.

Did it go OK at the vet's?

foreignergrl · Nov 10, 2015

OMG, I totally forgot I wrote about that here. Thank you for asking... It was not a raccoon attack, or a cat fight - it was a bot fly!!!! It had died inside the poor thing, and it had to be removed by surgery, and now he is on antibiotics and has a huge cut on his chest. I could never in a million years have imagined thats what it was, and even the vet was puzzled. And you really won't believe this (I can hardly believe it myself): Since I wrote my post about a week ago, some bacteria or virus found their way in and literally ALL my inside cats are throwing up. Three of them have an eye infection. I can only speculate that the strays got them exposed to something, since the kittens in my catio and momma cat wild are doing just fine. She's even climbing the cat tree now, using a fluffy bed to nurse and she looks very relaxed I'd say 85% of the time, unless I have guests and she hears strangers' voices. But I just have to wash my hands now a million times each time I go out there and each time I come back in, and medicate all the inside cats twice a day. Life just turned a bit too chaotic over here, and several hundred dollars later, we still don't have a clue of what is making all the cats sick all of a sudden. I am thankful that most of them have insurance and we will get at least some of the money back, as I was totally unprepared for that. Three of them are on antibiotics: Leo, the ex-stray because of his "surgery", Cookie, my FIV positive cat as a precaution, and Trouble, my obese cat, who has a very sensitive stomach and was hit hard by whatever is going around and stopped eating. My vet didn't want to take any chances. Trouble doesn't eat that much, he seems to be obese because of his metabolism, so we never take chances with him. All the others are on Pepcid AC 10MG (1/4 tablet) and plain yogurt, so I am literally working around the clock, and I still have to find time to socialize the kittens to make them adoptable.

I have to admit that I was very frustrated that I was trying to help momma cat and her 7 kittens (the two older ones "visiting") and the five babies and was hit by this avalanche of problems so unexpectedly, but oh well. I guess everybody is lucky in this story. Us for being able to provide care and them for having found their way here. I just get really sad that we won't be able to keep the babies. I really wish I could, but I'm just trying to reassure myself that I'm doing the best I can caring for them and trying to find homes for them. Not sure if I said it here already, but we will keep one and we did find home for another one, so there's still 3 to go. Please keep your fingers crossed.

ondine · Nov 11, 2015

Wow - you have been busy! A bot fly is bad enough but now with everyone getting sick. Just wow...

I was surprised to learn that cats are like us in that there are germs out there that some haven't met yet. We had foster kittens from whom our cats caught something. All five got sick, like yours. I learned a lot through that experience.

While you are on the porch, use disposable booties over your shoes and take them off before you come inside. I used to literally wear different clothes in the foster room and it definitely helped.

I can only send vibes and prayers your way. :vibes:

Help with feral momma cat and kittens

TCS Member

Thread starter

Advisor

TCS Member

Thread starter

Advisor

TCS Member

Thread starter

TCS Member

TCS Member

Thread starter

TCS Member

TCS Member

Thread starter

TCS Member

TCS Member

TCS Member

Thread starter

Advisor

TCS Member

Thread starter

TCS Member

Thread starter

TCS Member

TCS Member

Thread starter

TCS Member

TCS Member

Thread starter

TCS Member