Tom cat tries to mate with pregnant female.

plutosangel

TCS Member
Thread starter
Young Cat
Joined
Apr 25, 2015
Messages
23
Purraise
6
I have two 11 month old kittens - a male and female pair. The breeder wanted us to allow them to have one litter before we spayed/neutered them.

The neutering appointmentfor our tom cat us scheduled for next month.

Currently, our female is in her 6th week of pregnancy and the tom often chases her and tries to sniff her up and pin her. She generally kicks him ir refuses. But today, I noticed that she didn't protest when he mounted her and she even let out a scream at the end. Could they have mated?? :O could this lead to a pregnancy within a pregnancy?? :S

A lot of people suggest that we should separate them but I feel bad about doing that because the tom is very social and gets lonely easily. They're generally pretty calm when they sit next to each other or play but he does sniff her up quite a bit. Also, me and DH live in a small 2 bedroom apartment - separating is not easy.

What should we do?
 

miagi's_mommy

TCS Member
Top Cat
Joined
Dec 19, 2004
Messages
8,151
Purraise
1,146
I would get him neutered now .. not next month but now since you don't have an easy way to separate. Or, have a family member or friend take him til he can be neutered  with no intact female cats in their home!  He can easily get her pregnant after the kittens are born as well if you don't neuter him . Do you have a plan to fix her after the kittens are weaned?
 
Last edited:

StefanZ

Advisor
Staff Member
Advisor
Joined
Sep 18, 2005
Messages
25,997
Purraise
10,644
Location
Sweden
I have two 11 month old kittens - a male and female pair. The breeder wanted us to allow them to have one litter before we spayed/neutered them.

The neutering appointmentfor our tom cat us scheduled for next month.

Currently, our female is in her 6th week of pregnancy and the tom often chases her and tries to sniff her up and pin her. She generally kicks him ir refuses. But today, I noticed that she didn't protest when he mounted her and she even let out a scream at the end. Could they have mated?? :O could this lead to a pregnancy within a pregnancy?? :S

A lot of people suggest that we should separate them but I feel bad about doing that because the tom is very social and gets lonely easily. They're generally pretty calm when they sit next to each other or play but he does sniff her up quite a bit. Also, me and DH live in a small 2 bedroom apartment - separating is not easy.

What should we do?
Yes, it seems they had a fully done mating.

And yes, its not impossible they can get two different  pregnancies simultaneously.

My ex neigbour has one cat from such a second litter.   Both litters were delivered without big issues and healthy.

Its of course not optimal, but does happens.

Breeders do seldom see this, as experienced breeders do have controll over the matings.

But with owners of common home cats, and some free living cats, itsn not that unique.

I gather they are purebred.  What breed are they?

Good luck!
 

Sarthur2

Cat lady extraordinaire
Staff Member
Advisor
Joined
Mar 8, 2015
Messages
35,986
Purraise
17,678
Location
Sunny Florida
You should not have allowed your male cat to mount your already pregnant cat. I agree that you should neuter the male cat ASAP. And yes, she can now possibly have 2 separate litters of kittens.

What was the breeder's interest in wanting your cats to mate and produce a litter before being fixed? I find this to be an unusual request.
 

jen

TCS Member
Top Cat
Joined
Dec 27, 2001
Messages
8,501
Purraise
3,009
Location
Hudson, OH
Lol it does not matter that the "tom gets lonely", they are siblings, of mating age and you let them mate. SEPERATE THEM with no exceptions.

Also what on earth kind of breeder WANTS the buyer to let the cats mate at least once? How horribly irresponsible.
 
Last edited:

talkingpeanut

TCS Member
Top Cat
Joined
Oct 12, 2015
Messages
11,793
Purraise
3,600
I am also confused.  They are actually siblings?  And you've agreed to mate them?

What are you supposed to do with the kittens once they arrive?
 

NewYork1303

TCS Member
Top Cat
Joined
Jun 9, 2015
Messages
3,025
Purraise
2,015
Location
Washington State
They definitely should be separated and he should be neutered ASAP at this point. She can not only be pregnant twice over, but soon (even days) after kittens are born, she can get pregnant again. This could be a really bad situation if you don't get him neutered soon.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #8

plutosangel

TCS Member
Thread starter
Young Cat
Joined
Apr 25, 2015
Messages
23
Purraise
6
Thanks for the responses. Just to clarify, they're not siblings. They were born from two separate litters from different sets of parents about 2 weeks apart from each other.

They are traditional Persians.

The breeder told us that she would give good homes to the cats if we let them breed. So we did.

Our cats being persian are extremely scared to step out - they don't even get out of the apartment if the door is open.

I appreciate everyone's responses but I'm always so scared to ask a question that involves neutering/spaying on forums because most people give really rude responses about how irresponsible we are or how cruel and insensitive we are to let them breed. In most cases, the main question loses focus and there's just so much hate directed towards the asker.

This is probably random but I just had to vent.
 

Sarthur2

Cat lady extraordinaire
Staff Member
Advisor
Joined
Mar 8, 2015
Messages
35,986
Purraise
17,678
Location
Sunny Florida
Thank you for your response. I think the issue is that ethical breeders do not tell you to breed cats they've already sold to you. I don't know your arrangements, but it sounds like the breeder wants to make money re-homing the kittens that your cats breed. It's highly unusual.

Do these cats have papers?
 

Kat0121

TCS Member
Veteran
Joined
Feb 23, 2014
Messages
15,036
Purraise
20,362
Location
Sunny Florida
Thank you for your response. I think the issue is that ethical breeders do not tell you to breed cats they've already sold to you. I don't know your arrangements, but it sounds like the breeder wants to make money re-homing the kittens that your cats breed. It's highly unusual.

Do these cats have papers?
I agree. this breeder sounds quite suspect to me. A reputable breeder would never ask you to do this. They are asking you to do all the work so they can rehome (SELL) the kittens "for you". I wouldn't let those kittens anywhere near that person. You can find them homes yourself. If they are a backyard breeder (which is what I suspect they are), they will probably mate them and sell those kittens too.
 

bella 2710

TCS Member
Young Cat
Joined
Oct 30, 2015
Messages
97
Purraise
28
Sounds like your breeder is a back yard breeder.
Breeders do not ask for you to breed from your kittens.
If they were pedigree persians from a reputable breeder they would have come with a number of different documents.
These include:-
Pedigree papers
Registration papers
Show/breed quality papers showing they are on a active breeding list
Vaccination documents
Microchipping documents
Gene testing documents either for the kitten or from both parents of each kitten

You should also have been shown both parents of both kittens, they look the same in colour and are the same age, i find it hard to believe they are both from completely separate parent and are not related.

Also no pedigree kitten is allow to breed under the age of 1 year, so if they are pedigree and your breeder has told you to do this not only have they put your girl in danger they have also broke the rules of proper breeding. Your kittens if they are okay, will not be allowed to be registered as pedigree.

I hope your female kitten is okay after the birth. Make sure you feed her plenty of kitten food for the nutrients and vitamins she needs.
 

jen

TCS Member
Top Cat
Joined
Dec 27, 2001
Messages
8,501
Purraise
3,009
Location
Hudson, OH
Ugh breeders like that make me sick. How awful. Don't listen to anything the breeder says. Neuter them.
 

StefanZ

Advisor
Staff Member
Advisor
Joined
Sep 18, 2005
Messages
25,997
Purraise
10,644
Location
Sweden
Sounds like your breeder is a back yard breeder.
Breeders do not ask for you to breed from your kittens.
If they were pedigree persians from a reputable breeder they would have come with a number of different documents.
These include:-
Pedigree papers
Registration papers
Show/breed quality papers showing they are on a active breeding list
Vaccination documents
Microchipping documents
Gene testing documents either for the kitten or from both parents of each kitten

You should also have been shown both parents of both kittens, they look the same in colour and are the same age, i find it hard to believe they are both from completely separate parent and are not related.

Also no pedigree kitten is allow to breed under the age of 1 year, so if they are pedigree and your breeder has told you to do this not only have they put your girl in danger they have also broke the rules of proper breeding. Your kittens if they are okay, will not be allowed to be registered as pedigree.

I hope your female kitten is okay after the birth. Make sure you feed her plenty of kitten food for the nutrients and vitamins she needs.
I agree. Prob a BYB breeder using you TS.

Now, such arrangement isnt unusual with breeders, at least in Sweden, for one or two litters.  Usually two litters from a male, one from a female..  But if so, the cat is sold with big price reduction, typically half the price. There is a contract, all the paperwork done properly, etc...   And yes, the breeder covers the vet costs too and insurances connected with that.

And yes, the kittens belongs to the owner to find homes and sell.  The female often delivers at the breeders place..

Done as seems is done here, it sounds as misusing you.    At very best, if YOU  , the TS wished to have a litter, as is quite common, so the breeder gave you the permission and the possibility.  If so, it was not that bad. But  Anyways, shady from the breeder.
 

recomper

TCS Member
Young Cat
Joined
May 21, 2015
Messages
52
Purraise
4
 
Yes, it seems they had a fully done mating.

And yes, its not impossible they can get two different  pregnancies simultaneously.

My ex neigbour has one cat from such a second litter.   Both litters were delivered without big issues and healthy.

Its of course not optimal, but does happens.

Breeders do seldom see this, as experienced breeders do have controll over the matings.

But with owners of common home cats, and some free living cats, itsn not that unique.

I gather they are purebred.  What breed are they?

Good luck!
I don't understand the pregnancy part. 

So after she gives birth, she will still be pregnant from mating with the tom? 

Which will be 3ish week pregnant after giving birth to her first litter?
 

StefanZ

Advisor
Staff Member
Advisor
Joined
Sep 18, 2005
Messages
25,997
Purraise
10,644
Location
Sweden
 
I don't understand the pregnancy part. 

So after she gives birth, she will still be pregnant from mating with the tom? 

Which will be 3ish week pregnant after giving birth to her first litter?
Yes, that is so it works in such cases.  They deliver one litter, are still preg with that second litter,  and several weeks later, deliver  the second litter.    All kittens were cooked their righful 65 days.
 

recomper

TCS Member
Young Cat
Joined
May 21, 2015
Messages
52
Purraise
4
 
Yes, that is so it works in such cases.  They deliver one litter, are still preg with that second litter,  and several weeks later, deliver  the second litter.    All kittens were cooked their righful 65 days.
Wow. That seems stressful to the body.
 

lazer

TCS Member
Adult Cat
Joined
Mar 3, 2015
Messages
150
Purraise
35
 
I agree. Prob a BYB breeder using you TS.

Now, such arrangement isnt unusual with breeders, at least in Sweden, for one or two litters.  Usually two litters from a male, one from a female..  But if so, the cat is sold with big price reduction, typically half the price. There is a contract, all the paperwork done properly, etc...   And yes, the breeder covers the vet costs too and insurances connected with that.

And yes, the kittens belongs to the owner to find homes and sell.  The female often delivers at the breeders place..

Done as seems is done here, it sounds as misusing you.    At very best, if YOU  , the TS wished to have a litter, as is quite common, so the breeder gave you the permission and the possibility.  If so, it was not that bad. But  Anyways, shady from the breeder.
Being in Sweden, I am very curious about the arrangement you mention (not because I want one - we got our cats from a reputable breeder and have no interest in breeding ourselves, but because I haven't heard of something like this before). It sounds very strange to me - I suppose reputable breeders only enter into such an arrangements with experienced owners who agree to also show the kittens before breeding them? Or is the standard for "reputable" breeders different here and showing isn't such a big deal? When looking for a Maine Coon breeder we specifically looked for someone who a) did appropriate health testing and b) showed their cats.
 

StefanZ

Advisor
Staff Member
Advisor
Joined
Sep 18, 2005
Messages
25,997
Purraise
10,644
Location
Sweden
 
Being in Sweden, I am very curious about the arrangement you mention (not because I want one - we got our cats from a reputable breeder and have no interest in breeding ourselves, but because I haven't heard of something like this before). It sounds very strange to me - I suppose reputable breeders only enter into such an arrangements with experienced owners who agree to also show the kittens before breeding them? Or is the standard for "reputable" breeders different here and showing isn't such a big deal? When looking for a Maine Coon breeder we specifically looked for someone who a) did appropriate health testing and b) showed their cats.
Hi!   Im a little surprised you being in Sweden and inside the purebred circles havent heard about such arrangements.  Perhaps they arent THAT common. Perhaps its a little hush hush about them.  But its quite common as far as I know.   The question is only, if the new owners get 50% in price reduction, or if they gets 100% - which also happens. It may also differ in the litters agreed upon, esp for a stud.

Of course, it surely happens with tries for "kidnapping"  = a not so very good deal.

That part of showing differs somewhat.  And may depend on the exact circumstances.  If the now owner fancy showing, he surely may show himself.  If he doesnt fancy, the breeder is showing them, in own name as products of his breeding, or as being a "friend"  of the owner, carrying forward the cat.   And yes, as its custom to show cats before breeding (not mandatory, thought) so some sort of Showing is usual.   Also, its expected, as part of the fun being a part of the purebred owning....   :)     The will to show is often a strong argumet to buy the cat, if there are several wanting to buy.

The new owner doensnt need to be very experienced, as the breeder is typically responsible for all the practicals, with mating, and with delivering.  Unless the owner is exprienced.

And thus, for a wannabe  new breeder, this is a nice and comfortable step in.  Getting a mentor and experience....

Im not sure what you mean by what I put in bold letters.  Sweden or "USA"?   As the practice differs both these countries.
 
Top