IBD-on to the next chapter, where do we go from here?

catwoman707 · Oct 17, 2015

This is my first thread about Krissy, and her diagnosis of pancreatitis, intestinal inflammation, thickened bowel loops. Summed up, IBD with likely secondary pancreatitis.

http://www.thecatsite.com/t/283203/...-lost-her-appetite-and-is-sleeping-constantly

I was able to get her on limited ingredient turkey diet of blue buffalo basics turkey/potato dry (1/4 cup daily) and fancy feast classics turkey pate.

She has done beautifully!!

It was a stressful nightmare basically to figure out what to feed her, as she has an issue now with chicken and fish.

The big issue is canned, which is her main food, but she is super picky and wouldn't touch countless types I tried. Nada.

I had heard from many members that it will likely change someday, as she will probably start having a reaction to the turkey in time too, and will have to switch it up.

The time has come............and I am CLUELESS.

It started showing about a week ago, losing her spunky attitude, sleeping a bit more during the day, then during the night I am waking up to vomiting sounds.

Most of the time nothing comes up, by the 5th or 6th time, a very small amt of digested food will come up.

Then she carries on fine the next day, then the same thing happens during the night.

So it's odd to me, no vomiting during the day when she eats, yet 2 or 3-4 in the morning it hits her.

5 nights out of the last 7.

So I'm assuming she is starting to react to turkey now.

Switching up her dry, she will eat basically anything I think.

Although I don't know what canned she will eat that matches with the dry since she can only have 1 protein and not combining them.

Fancy feast only makes fish, chicken, turkey foods. Well beef too but she doesn't care for it much.

I know this is a tough one but does anyone have any ideas??

Ugh, I was hoping she could stay on turkey for good too since it was the last resort to try and it worked, wishful thinking I suppose.

denice · Oct 17, 2015

The vomiting after a number of hours without food could be excess stomach acid. Have you tried Pepcid?

catwoman707 · Oct 17, 2015

To be honest, I did pop 1/4 tab down her throat the 2nd night she did this, and if I remember right, that next night is the one she skipped and did not vomit.

Wouldn't this be related to something not agreeing with her?

What I mean is, if I know that giving it to her will help without masking signs of her no longer doing good on turkey, then of course I will.

Just felt like something is going on again.

What do you think?

artiemom · Oct 17, 2015

catwoman707 said:
To be honest, I did pop 1/4 tab down her throat the 2nd night she did this, and if I remember right, that next night is the one she skipped and did not vomit.

Wouldn't this be related to something not agreeing with her?

What I mean is, if I know that giving it to her will help without masking signs of her no longer doing good on turkey, then of course I will.

Just felt like something is going on again.

What do you think?

Catwoman707, I am by far the last person to advise you. but I will tell you what I am doing and what I have discovered with my guy. I do not know if you are already aware of this or not...

I give my guy 1/2 a pepcid once a day. Pepcid can be divided into either 1/4 tablet twice a day or 1/2 tablet daily--on an empty stomach. I wait an hour after eating and an hour before eating.

I am feeding Artie either Pride Rabbit or Natures Variety Limited Rabbit or Wild Calling Rabbit. It is mostily the Pride rabbit (ccombo of rabbit and pork), His IM Vet is would rather a single novel protein, but since have is so fussy, and is doing ok with it; this will suffice for now.

Honestly, I feel that Blue Buffalo is not a good food. Just my opinion.

I think Natures Variety, Hound and Gatos, Wild Calling and others are better foods. They seem to be devoted to one protein, more than Blue Buffalo does. My Artie got sick every time I fed him BB....I did not know better at that time.

Krissy may be allergic to poultry. I discover Artie was allegic to chicken because each time he ate chicken, he vomited. Most of it was immediately, but sometimes there was a delay.

That is all I can add. Artie is still in the beginning stages of IBD; So I am pretty new at this. His diagnosis was in May of this year....

Artie is very fussy with food. In fact, I just dropped a huge donation of his undesired food, to the humane society this afternoon.

After a painful monetary trial and error, I found the ones he will eat...and he even gets fussy with them. I stay with Pride rabbit. When he is fussy I will give him some NV Rabbit or Wild Calling. He limits himself to just an half a can of those. I throw away the rest; but it is a variety for him..I also only wet feed (canned). He suddenly disliked the NV ltd ingredient dry rabbit which I use as treats....

I wish you the best..and Krissy too...

joeynox · Oct 17, 2015

In going through the exact same thing with my Lucy. I've tried every and I mean every brand of wet food. She doesnt like raw and dry makes her bloated. My girl lost so much weight and today at the vet is only 5.5 lbs. The vet thinks my girl might also have kidney issues also. The food that my girl went 5 months on and responded well to was ziwi peak venison (venison only not the venison & fish) and the lamb. Chewys.com sells it 12 cans shipped for $40. It's pricy but very good food. Mauri kangaroo food is really good also

catwoman707 · Oct 17, 2015

Yikes, I have 2 cats to feed the same thing too............

Krissy is super finicky with canned, although she would eat any crunchy dry food I put in front of her..........

So I was relieved that I was able to feed the turkey fancy feast, it's decent enough, grain free, no wheat gluten, etc.

And luckily she has done fine on that and the bb turkey limited dry.

catwoman707 · Oct 18, 2015

@Denice , so last night I gave her a pepcid, no vomiting at all..............

So I will of course continue this every night before bed, but why do you think this has started now?

Do you think she is at a turning point with her food?

I've never had to give her the pepcid since she got settled down on the turkey diet, so it's sort of out of left field, making me think she is beginning to react to the food.

Thank you @Artiemom and @joeynox for your input as well! Always grateful

joeynox · Oct 20, 2015

@catwoman I'm going through the same situation. My girl has been doing wonderfully on the ziwipeak venison for months and now all of a sudden its like back when she was first diagnosed. I've finally gotten her to start eating some regular food. I started with chicken baby food with some turkey deli meat sprinkled on top, then after a day of that I started mixing some cat food in it and now she's eating again. A little at a time but now she has some food in her system. My girl doesn't do well on pepcid. I think she vomits more for some reason.

stephenq · Oct 20, 2015

catwoman707 said:
@Denice , so last night I gave her a pepcid, no vomiting at all..............

So I will of course continue this every night before bed, but why do you think this has started now?

Do you think she is at a turning point with her food?

I've never had to give her the pepcid since she got settled down on the turkey diet, so it's sort of out of left field, making me think she is beginning to react to the food.

Thank you @Artiemom and @joeynox for your input as well! Always grateful

Hey!

Not only can the IBD cause nausea. but pancreatitis is a major culprit too, and not only may the pepcid help, but there may come a time when Cerenia is indicated as well, an amazing neural block for nausea. There can come a time with both illnesses, that diet just doesn't help anymore. Is her weight stable? Even if it is, it wouldn't be bad to at least talk to your very about starting prednisolone....

catwoman707 · Oct 20, 2015

StephenQ said:
Hey!

Not only can the IBD cause nausea. but pancreatitis is a major culprit too, and not only may the pepcid help, but there may come a time when Cerenia is indicated as well, an amazing neural block for nausea. There can come a time with both illnesses, that diet just doesn't help anymore. Is her weight stable? Even if it is, it wouldn't be bad to at least talk to your very about starting prednisolone....

I guess I was in a dream world thinking everything had settled down and we could just continue as we have been and it wouldn't start acting up again.......

Yes she showed pancreatitis on the ultrasound as well as intestinal inflammation/thickening.

My vet commented that it was likely the IBD that caused the pancreatitis, as secondary.

I really don't understand why it has to progress if the substance that caused her to react this way in the first place is removed from her life, which in my mind means the inflammation goes away, etc.

I have been giving her a 1/4 pepcid nightly at bedtime now and no more vomiting, which is fab!

But of course I worry about masking too.

I do realize that at some point I may not be able to help her with diet alone, but not ready to go there just yet if I have a choice, and so far it looks like I still do with the pepcid.

Yes, her weight is stable, never been better actually, since she was a fat cat and always has been short, stocky and thick

So with the past year being on limited and canned turkey food she has very slowly dropped a bit of weight (she was a dry food addict prior) and looks great to me, she can even clean her own butt now!

But the weight loss isn't from very recently, so it's a good thing.

With adding the one pepcid at night, she is back to her normal, eats fine, etc so it looks like we will take it as it comes.

Although, Stephen, you know how I dread the next phase, it might get very rocky, no one knows what will come, but I wonder if it is unrealistic to keep her with me for at least another 5 years, or is that pushing it due to the progression of this disease?

Be brutally honest

catwoman707 · Oct 20, 2015

joeynox said:
@catwoman I'm going through the same situation. My girl has been doing wonderfully on the ziwipeak venison for months and now all of a sudden its like back when she was first diagnosed. I've finally gotten her to start eating some regular food. I started with chicken baby food with some turkey deli meat sprinkled on top, then after a day of that I started mixing some cat food in it and now she's eating again. A little at a time but now she has some food in her system. My girl doesn't do well on pepcid. I think she vomits more for some reason.

Sorry to hear this

I said the same thing about pepcid when this all first started just over a year ago.

Strange how it is clearly helping this time around.....

Go figure.........might be worth trying again when she is nauseous/vomiting again. (?)

denice · Oct 20, 2015

Of course no one can predict longevity. My kitty had his first flare when he was only 18 months old and will have 5 years on the steroid in December. He turned 12 this past spring. He hasn't had a major flare since going on the steroid. I did have to increase the steroid from 2 1/2 mgs to 5 mgs recently because of weight loss. He didn't have any other symptoms. The vet did all the diagnostics again and nothing unusual showed up. I also experimented a bit with a probiotic and he continued to loose, not huge quantities or at a fast rate just continual gradual loss. Since increasing the pred he has regained the weight that he lost.

stephenq · Oct 20, 2015

There is nothing to be honest about. No one can tell you how long she might last, there are too many variables! All you can do is keep providing timely care and hope for the best.

Do you have a baby scale? I would suggest one as you can track weight loss earlier with it. I would weight once a week and keep a log. But it sounds like she's doing ok now.

catwoman707 · Mar 30, 2016

Well, I'm back.

As you can see by the date of starting this thread, I've managed to get away with continuing her current diet, but I do think it's time to move on to something else.

Whether it be a change in novel protein food or a med, etc. I don't know.

3 nights ago we have a very bad night, out of the blue Krissy started vomiting about 2 am and then the last time was at 8 am. Total of 21 times. Yes, 21. The final time I did see a blade of grass she tossed, maybe it just didn't want to come up so she kept trying, no idea.

What I am seeing since, and vaguely have started to see here and there is her not feeling as well. Appetite is down some, nothing dramatic though.

My big problem and why I turn here for advice is because her vet, well I just don't have confidence that she has much experience with IBD.

Back when Krissy got her ultrasound and ultimately her diagnosis, the vet who performed the ultrasound has extensive experience and would LOVE to get her input now, she is not available to, she only does ultrasounds now. I don't even think I could contact her to ask her to refer me to someone who is as good as she is.

At least her current vet didn't jump on to prednisone for her, Krissy is higher risk for diabetes due to her chunkiness, I can't imagine putting her on that since it does cause increased appetite. Krissy gains weight easily, always has.

But I wonder about a very short, maybe 10 day course of pred.

But will this reduce the inflammation? Will it stay that way or come back? I have no experience with pred use except for a few kitties with diarrhea that seemed to be caused by an unknown irritant.

Krissy is crabbier, doesn't really want to be messed with/touched, so I'm sure she is having some pain/discomfort.

I also know that the vomiting episode the other night is typical of IBD, it seems to come in waves, now I expect we won't go through it for another couple/few weeks or even more, but meanwhile I do think something needs to change, I think I am asking for trouble if I don't get this inflammation under control again.

I know that cerenia is great for nausea, but she isn't really nauseous, just that one night, the bottom line is, I feel best to stay as conservative as possible with this medication-wise, but would like to hear opinions on short term pred, any side effects it might have, and if it gets rid of the inflammation, even after it's not taken, as long as there is nothing to make it return?

So if it did return I would think her protein needs to be changed as she is now reacting to it?

Thanks peeps!

mukkia · Mar 30, 2016

catwoman707 said:
Well, I'm back.

As you can see by the date of starting this thread, I've managed to get away with continuing her current diet, but I do think it's time to move on to something else.

Whether it be a change in novel protein food or a med, etc. I don't know.

3 nights ago we have a very bad night, out of the blue Krissy started vomiting about 2 am and then the last time was at 8 am. Total of 21 times. Yes, 21. The final time I did see a blade of grass she tossed, maybe it just didn't want to come up so she kept trying, no idea.

What I am seeing since, and vaguely have started to see here and there is her not feeling as well. Appetite is down some, nothing dramatic though.

My big problem and why I turn here for advice is because her vet, well I just don't have confidence that she has much experience with IBD.

Back when Krissy got her ultrasound and ultimately her diagnosis, the vet who performed the ultrasound has extensive experience and would LOVE to get her input now, she is not available to, she only does ultrasounds now. I don't even think I could contact her to ask her to refer me to someone who is as good as she is.

At least her current vet didn't jump on to prednisone for her, Krissy is higher risk for diabetes due to her chunkiness, I can't imagine putting her on that since it does cause increased appetite. Krissy gains weight easily, always has.

But I wonder about a very short, maybe 10 day course of pred.

But will this reduce the inflammation? Will it stay that way or come back? I have no experience with pred use except for a few kitties with diarrhea that seemed to be caused by an unknown irritant.

Krissy is crabbier, doesn't really want to be messed with/touched, so I'm sure she is having some pain/discomfort.

I also know that the vomiting episode the other night is typical of IBD, it seems to come in waves, now I expect we won't go through it for another couple/few weeks or even more, but meanwhile I do think something needs to change, I think I am asking for trouble if I don't get this inflammation under control again.

I know that cerenia is great for nausea, but she isn't really nauseous, just that one night, the bottom line is, I feel best to stay as conservative as possible with this medication-wise, but would like to hear opinions on short term pred, any side effects it might have, and if it gets rid of the inflammation, even after it's not taken, as long as there is nothing to make it return?

So if it did return I would think her protein needs to be changed as she is now reacting to it?

Thanks peeps!

Awe! I am so sorry Krissy is not well! You help so many kitties, and mine too! I truly wish I could help you! I do know that my new vet said inflammation can return once a kitty is off Pred for a period of time. I don't know if it is a kick start for some, or just temp thing, because IBD was not Mukkia's condition. Gosh, I feel soooooooo bad for you both! I am going to keep the two of you in my prayers!

denice · Mar 30, 2016

I haven't tried it but there is a holistic treatment that some people have had good luck with https://www.vitalityscience.com/product/tr-vomiting-cat/ It's actually a combination of products and unfortunately it isn't cheap.

This is the product that helped jcat's IBD kitty http://www.drugs.com/vet/entero-chronic-can.html Her kitty didn't have to go to steroids with using this. Unfortunately it isn't available in the U.S., only in Canada and Europe. I don't know if it's strictly prescription or if it's something that is possible for someone to get for you.

catwoman707 · Mar 30, 2016

Mukkia said:
Awe! I am so sorry Krissy is not well! You help so many kitties, and mine too! I truly wish I could help you! I do know that my new vet said inflammation can return once a kitty is off Pred for a period of time. I don't know if it is a kick start for some, or just temp thing, because IBD was not Mukkia's condition. Gosh, I feel soooooooo bad for you both! I am going to keep the two of you in my prayers!

Thank you so much for your kind words, I really appreciate it

Denice said:
I haven't tried it but there is a holistic treatment that some people have had good luck with https://www.vitalityscience.com/product/tr-vomiting-cat/ It's actually a combination of products and unfortunately it isn't cheap.

This is the product that helped jcat's IBD kitty http://www.drugs.com/vet/entero-chronic-can.html Her kitty didn't have to go to steroids with using this. Unfortunately it isn't available in the U.S., only in Canada and Europe. I don't know if it's strictly prescription or if it's something that is possible for someone to get for you.

Thanks so much @Denice ! I looked at the links/products, and have been thinking about a possible holistic approach, I am just so leery being used to western medicine, that I have not crossed over to that yet, but have been looking for a vet who is in to holistic AND western, to see what he/she might recommend.

I'd love to know what @jcat has to say about the products she used too, and what her cat's issues were. Krissy does not have nor ever has had a diarrhea symptom thankfully, mostly what I am after (at least I think) is to get and keep that inflammation down/gone.

mukkia · Mar 30, 2016

catwoman707 said:
Thank you so much for your kind words, I really appreciate it

Thanks so much @Denice
! I looked at the links/products, and have been thinking about a possible holistic approach, I am just so leery being used to western medicine, that I have not crossed over to that yet, but have been looking for a vet who is in to holistic AND western, to see what he/she might recommend.

I'd love to know what @jcat
has to say about the products she used too, and what her cat's issues were. Krissy does not have nor ever has had a diarrhea symptom thankfully, mostly what I am after (at least I think) is to get and keep that inflammation down/gone.

It is the least I can do in return for all of your help. I mean it though, I will keep you both in my prayers. I got ch er backs f' realz! :+) I hope that made you smile a little.

micknsnicks2mom · Mar 30, 2016

catwoman707 said:
Well, I'm back.

As you can see by the date of starting this thread, I've managed to get away with continuing her current diet, but I do think it's time to move on to something else.

Whether it be a change in novel protein food or a med, etc. I don't know.

3 nights ago we have a very bad night, out of the blue Krissy started vomiting about 2 am and then the last time was at 8 am. Total of 21 times. Yes, 21. The final time I did see a blade of grass she tossed, maybe it just didn't want to come up so she kept trying, no idea.

What I am seeing since, and vaguely have started to see here and there is her not feeling as well. Appetite is down some, nothing dramatic though.

My big problem and why I turn here for advice is because her vet, well I just don't have confidence that she has much experience with IBD.

Back when Krissy got her ultrasound and ultimately her diagnosis, the vet who performed the ultrasound has extensive experience and would LOVE to get her input now, she is not available to, she only does ultrasounds now. I don't even think I could contact her to ask her to refer me to someone who is as good as she is.

At least her current vet didn't jump on to prednisone for her, Krissy is higher risk for diabetes due to her chunkiness, I can't imagine putting her on that since it does cause increased appetite. Krissy gains weight easily, always has.

But I wonder about a very short, maybe 10 day course of pred.

But will this reduce the inflammation? Will it stay that way or come back? I have no experience with pred use except for a few kitties with diarrhea that seemed to be caused by an unknown irritant.

Krissy is crabbier, doesn't really want to be messed with/touched, so I'm sure she is having some pain/discomfort.

I also know that the vomiting episode the other night is typical of IBD, it seems to come in waves, now I expect we won't go through it for another couple/few weeks or even more, but meanwhile I do think something needs to change, I think I am asking for trouble if I don't get this inflammation under control again.

I know that cerenia is great for nausea, but she isn't really nauseous, just that one night, the bottom line is, I feel best to stay as conservative as possible with this medication-wise, but would like to hear opinions on short term pred, any side effects it might have, and if it gets rid of the inflammation, even after it's not taken, as long as there is nothing to make it return?

So if it did return I would think her protein needs to be changed as she is now reacting to it?

Thanks peeps!

i'm so sorry your Krissy is having these symptoms!

i also wanted to post a link to an article over at Mercola/Dr Karen Becker's website. it's about microbiome restorative therapy (fecal transplant) -- http://healthypets.mercola.com/site...n=20151213Z1&et_cid=DM92511&et_rid=1259987386. this might be worth at least reading about, and/or looking into for your Krissy.

in your original thread, i think i had mentioned considering a raw diet for your girl. i'm not sure that's something you're comfortable with or feel would be best for your Krissy, but also might be worth considering at this point. you may remember that my snick

had IBD (as well as CKD). i had looked into a home cooked diet for my girl, but at that time i decided against trying to transition my snick over to home cooked because i felt the process might cause her more stress. so i can totally understand if you feel that your Krissy might be stressed by the process of transitioning to a raw or home cooked diet.

i'm currently transitioning our jaspurr (3 3/4 years old) and the girls (deedee and punkin, both about 7 1/2 months now) to a raw diet.

catwoman707 · Mar 30, 2016

Mukkia said:
It is the least I can do in return for all of your help. I mean it though, I will keep you both in my prayers. I got ch er backs f' realz! :+) I hope that made you smile a little.

It sure did! I'm smiling still.

mickNsnicks2mom said:
i'm so sorry your Krissy is having these symptoms!

i also wanted to post a link to an article over at Mercola/Dr Karen Becker's website. it's about microbiome restorative therapy (fecal transplant) -- http://healthypets.mercola.com/site...n=20151213Z1&et_cid=DM92511&et_rid=1259987386. this might be worth at least reading about, and/or looking into for your Krissy.

in your original thread, i think i had mentioned considering a raw diet for your girl. i'm not sure that's something you're comfortable with or feel would be best for your Krissy, but also might be worth considering at this point. you may remember that my snick

had IBD (as well as CKD). i had looked into a home cooked diet for my girl, but at that time i decided against trying to transition my snick over to home cooked because i felt the process might cause her more stress. so i can totally understand if you feel that your Krissy might be stressed by the process of transitioning to a raw or home cooked diet.

i'm currently transitioning our jaspurr (3 3/4 years old) and the girls (deedee and punkin, both about 7 1/2 months now) to a raw diet.

Actually I heard about this recently, I thought they had to be mistaken telling me this treatment was done to their cat............

I have since read more about it though. Interesting to say the least!

As far as a raw diet, I hate to sound closed minded about it, but for several reasons I doubt I can go that route.

For one, I have tried offering Kirssy raw food, she wanted no part of it, at her age, she will be 14 on April 4th, and with Simone, who is even older and is fed the same diet, it would be quite the ordeal to make that transition, also I am reading that for IBD cats, raw might not be the way to go due to bacteria.

Then lastly, it sort of grosses me out.

However, that is not to say that I don't believe in my heart that raw is likely the best diet for our cats, I just should have done this from the beginning, but did not have the knowledge about foods back then as I do now, and how much crap is in processed foods.

IBD-on to the next chapter, where do we go from here?

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Artie, my Angel; a part of my heart

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