Desperately Need New Opinions/Advice for Chronic Diarrhea

catlady9441015

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Hello, I'm new here, but I've noticed that the threads on these forums seem to have a lot of useful information.  I was hoping that maybe someone out there has experiences with chronic diarrhea, and maybe has some ideas that I haven't tried yet?

So some background...I have a cat that is around 6-7 years old.  I don't know the exact age, because he was abandoned and I took him in about 4 years ago.  Since I've had him, he has had horrible, never ending diarrhea.  I've seen 3 primary vets and 2 specialists to try and help him.  He was originally diagnosed with IBS, but recently has been diagnosed with Small Cell Lymphoma.  I cannot say for sure (and neither can the specialist, though he thinks it is a good bet) because he never had a colonoscopy or endoscopy + biopsy.  He has also had a chronic case of Clostridium.  Here is what I have tried with no success: limited ingredient diet, novel protein diet, hydrolyzed protein diet, wet food, dry food, high quality, grain free, high protein food, amoxycillin, high fiber food (including metamucil and pumpkin), chlorambucil, fortiflora, advita probiotics, yogurt, homemade bland diet of rice/mashed potatoes and chicken, raw diet, kaopectin, and prednisolone (and another type of steroid that I can't remember what it is called, but it starts with a "b").  I have had some success with giving him metronidazole every day.  So i guess, is there anything anyone can think of that I haven't tried?  Also, I have a problem with him tracking his diarrhea, so if anyone has a suggestion for a better litter system, I would be appreciated.  I currently have two covered litterboxes that I scoop 2 times a day, and I use feline pine litter.

To make things even more difficult, I adopted a 4 month old kitten from a foster home about a month ago.  Since the day I brought him home, he has had loose, yellow colored stools.  At first I thought (and so did my vet) that it was a Clostridium infection causing it (we ran 2 different panels to find out).  So I treated him with amoxycillin and metronidazole.  It didn't really clear up his stool problems, but it did get rid of the bacterial infection, so as of right now there is seemingly no reason for the loose stool/diarrhea. I tried a bland diet of chicken and mashed potatoes for him, and he threw it up.  I also tried soluble fiber (benefiber), and he had explosive, completely watery stools all over my house.  Is it common for kittens to just have diarrhea for no reason?

Also, I am fastidious about bleaching and cleaning out everything to try to minimize transmitting any bacterial infections between the two back and forth.

I also am about at the end of my budget for vet bills.  I have spent well over $4000 this year alone on tests and medications at my primary and specialist vets, so any more cost effective ideas would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you in advance for your responses!
 
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catlady9441015

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Follow up, please if you know anything about small cell lymphoma or how to help with any of the above, I would be grateful.  My cats are my life, my babies, they mean the world to me, and I would do anything to make them comfortable and happy.
 

stephanietx

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Has the vet sent a stool sample off to the lab to be tested for tritrichomonas foetus?
 
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catlady9441015

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That has been several times in the case of Chiyo (my older cat), the kitten has only had 2 panels done, both for basic infections/parasites.
 

stephanietx

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So Chiyo  has been specifically tested for tritrich using a PCR test?  If that's been done, I would look at what you're feeding.  What are you feeding him and what are you feeding the kitten?
 
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catlady9441015

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Yeah, Chiyo has had several PCR tests.  The food I thought might be the culprit, but I'm not sure.  I feed Taste of the Wild, Chicken Soup for the Kitten's Soul, Purina Kitten Chow (this is what Mogget (the kitten) was eating at the foster home, I just finished phasing it out of the rotation), and Friskies (I know this is awful junk food, but Chiyo wasn't eating and this was the only thing he would eat if I mixed it with his other food).  Unfortunately they both get a mixture of the dry food, because I can't keep them out of each others bowls.  For wet food I feed Weruva Tuna and Pumpkin, Evanger's Classic Chicken, and Fancy Feast classic (once again Chiyo needed to eat, and this is quite popular with him, I also feed the kitten formula because that is what the foster home had him on).  I figured the Fancy Feast classic wasn't the worst, at the very least it's high protein and grain free.
 

mrsgreenjeens

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First, I would try to give his intestines a break by giving him a bland diet of chicken and RICE, not potatoes, for a few days.  the 2nd post in this thread gives a really good description of what to do to help intestines using chicken and rice, plus a probiotic, slippery elm bark, and aloe juice.  The rest of the thread isn't applicable, since you've already had testing done and presumable he's parasite free.  http://www.thecatsite.com/t/253036/help-explosive-poop#post_3291827

As to the probiotic to use, since he did test for Clostridium, I would use Nexabiotic, which has a strain in it that has proved quite effective against Clostridium.  Many people here in TCS use this probiotic for their cats, just because it's a really good one to use.

As to the small cell lymphoma, per this next thread, it is a slow growing cancer, and easy to treat.  As a matter of fact, the treatment is something you either are already giving your guy, or have given him in the past...chlorambucil and pred.  http://www.thecatsite.com/t/302330/lymphoma-diagnosis#post_3794192

After you have given his intestines a break with the chicken and rice mixture, then I would start him back up on a novel protein,if it's possible to keep him out of the baby's food.  And I would use something like rabbit...something unusual that he may not have had before. 
 
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catlady9441015

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Great! Thank you so much, I'll try those suggestions asap :-)
 

momofmaxwell

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Hi Cat Lady.if you are looking for information on kitties dealing with small cell lymphoma I belong to a yahoo group that deals specifically with small cell.Many members are using pulse dosing which most internists are unaware of.As you already know a biopsy is a must.Endoscopy may work providing the area of the small intestine which has 5 layers to the wall if the inflammation is reachable with the little  grabbers.With my boy it was not & the Internist said so.otherwise you would come back negative.Ultrasound confirms inflammation but both IBD & small cell will show GI inflammation.A folate /cobalamin test blood draw to show lack of absorption of b vitamins can help but is not 100% .My boy's numbers were right on.On the lymphoma group there Is an Internist Dr.Olson of 27 yrs who volunteers valuable time explaining protocols,answering questions etc.He is a true gift to all of us.It may be the slowest growing of cancers but my Boy's changed to large cell the last week of his life & was gone.So talking to many members in your shoes I feel would be helpful for you.If you don't' have a definite diagnosis of small cell what I can tell you is many kitties at death's door have had the exploratory & come through with flying colors.That being said with no underlying heart issue,diabetes etc.Longterm IBD as well as Megacolon,chronic constipation can all turn to lymphoma.With cancer of anything i know myself i want to talk to many people dealing with the same illness.Some that are in treatment & how it is going.Some that had complications etc.That's me.So the group link is  [email protected] Now Dr.Olson is also on the main feline Lymphoma groups as well their link is

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/feline_lymphoma/info   I hope that helps.Sorry I don't sugar coat cancer.It is a beast.You need an excellent Internist or oncologist & group help to help you help your kitty.But you do need to know one way or the other as the protocol for IBD & small cell are not the same.Hugs C.

Plus i wanted to ask you have you tried apple pectin for the diarrhea? Please ask your vet as it is used in anti diarrhea pet products in petstores.I have talked to someone personally who's kitty had projectile.She is wealth herself in kitty health & would never make a suggestion if it did not help her kitty.This is what she said:(Twin labs)

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"Cindy, your friend has she given the harmless apple pectin a try to at least stop the diarrhea? Twinlabs comes in capsules and she can give a fraction of the content several times a day mixed into a tad of baby food syringed as it is quite sour. "All natural" as they say. Similar to SEB it is also a prebiotic. It will not cure but it will help stop diarrhea by gelling up the liquid. it won't necessarily heal, esp. not if some infection is the cause, but it will firm up. And then SEB will soothe and help coat and heal the inflamed tissues if enteritis is the main issue of the diarrhea.Stopped My Chloe's projectile diarrhea now......

Also SEB recipes and please*** NOTE*****I Am Not a Vet***** Nor claim to be.Please run by any ideas to your vet for confirmation or approval before trying*********OK?*****Best to be safe than sorry******* In fact you can print this off & take it to him or her.

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5.4pt;mso-para-margin:0cm;mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt;mso-pagination:widow-orphan;font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri;mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-latin;mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";mso-fareast-theme-font:minor-fareast;mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri;mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin;}</style><![endif]

Here you go,

Slippery Elm Bark info:

http://www.felinecrf.org/holistic_treatments.htm

http://www.littlebigcat.com/health/slippery-elm/

Information on SEB, watch potassium in blood:

http://suziqi.nl/2013/03/21/health-benefits-of-slippery-elm-bark/

http://www.webmd.com/vitamins-suppl...dientId=978&activeIngredientName=SLIPPERY ELM

http://www.articlerich.com/Article/How-to-Make-Slippery-Elm-Syrup/793942

http://www.felinecrf.org/holistic_treatments.htm

If kitty is high in calcium may be contraindicated. HTH Honey &hugs to the Babies....C.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #10

catlady9441015

TCS Member
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Oct 15, 2015
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Thanks for all of the information. I'd really like to join that group. It's been very rough and emotional for my kitty and me. He's my world, so hearing cancer just about brought everything crashing down. My internist is pretty sure it's small cell. I feel like a horrible mommy, but I have not been able to get the biopsy. At least not yet. My problem is I wasted a ton of money on useless things over and over again. My original primary care kept suggesting the same tests with the same results. By the time I was finally referred to the internal medicine specialist, I had spent thousands of dollars. I ended up paying most out of pocket, but then that ran out and I had to finance. Once I get that paid down, I'll definitely do the biopsy. I feel horrible that I can't get it now because I was stupid enough to get suckered into paying for these things at a vet that was completely about profit. I've since then switched.

The internist and the oncologist he spoke with both think it's small cell. His reasoning was that the way he responded to various treatments pointed towards small cell. I'm not sure, do you think that's reliable for now?

I haven't tried the apple pectin. I'll call my vet and see what she thinks.

Thanks again for your help!
 

momofmaxwell

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Alpha Cat
Joined
Oct 5, 2014
Messages
388
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61
Location
BC CANADA
Hi CatLady.I'm sorry to overwhelm you with such a lge post.I fully understand the money thing.it truly is alot of money.But with belonging to all the cancer groups as well as the IBD group you're symptomology doesn't ring any bells to me.But I am not a specialist.And truly a biopsy is the way to go.I see many a cat that comes back IBD so don't count your chickens.They can assume all they want but until samples are taken and handled properly (which is key) then & only then a diagnosis can be made.I have lost 4 babes  to C and can relate your heart sinking to your feet.Truly.And belonging to the groups I admit sometimes i have to step away.just for a bit to get my bearings.But progress is being made.And if need be these members as well as Dr.Olson can answer technical questions for you.My friend who i emailed about your kitty with diarrhea as well as many other kitts on here is no dough head.This girl is on the ball completely.She is on the assisted feeding group.the ckd group.I have known her for over 10 yrs & her care & dedication to post to people & just helping as well as the love she has for animals is tremendous.You are welcome to join them anytime.Even though you haven't had the biopsy done.They won't be able to say one way or the other but i know when they suspected my Maxwell belonging to the IBD group most posts were kitties having diarrhea.My Boy never once in his life had diarrhea.That being said yes it is known longterm GI inflammation from IBD can lead to other things.But?? Diarrhea is so dehydrating for a kitty.Most owners are not doing subq fluid therapy to replenish the water extracted from the body.So dehydrated kitties truly feel like heck.inappetance the whole nine yards.Food & water being life.So please run it by your vet & i also have a study that was done in Germany on children with apple pectin who had chronic diarrhea as well.

Double-blind, randomized evaluation of clinical efficacy and tolerability of an apple pectin-chamomile extract in children with unspecific diarrhea. - PubMed - NCBI

There was also another study done in Russia  as well but I haven't looked for it.

If you have time can you privately email me with all that you've tried and the duration you tried it? the reason I ask have you heard of a white diet? This was from a member on the IBD group who  hired a board certified nutritionist.You use only one protein.The big thing is not about novel proteins as I know about them but with this white diet let's say you start with chicken canned meat only diet.on that can of meat when reading the ingredients it cannot have turkey livers or fish oil etc.And most that I read on the can do have something else.Now Evo 95% turkey has turkey & no garbage at all.This  white diet was suggested to a member and was tried for three months no matter what the diarrhea.Then discarded if no improvement.Then she would move onto another main protein.Came back what most kitties are effected by her kitty wasn't.But it did take a long time to figure it out.But it did not end up being Bison or Venison or Rabbit.I think she was ok on chicken or something not novel.So the key she said was nothing helped right off.No instant thing.But your kitties diarrhea has to be addressed.you said you used metronidazole right? And that seemed to help? it is a major antibiotic as well as an anti inflammatory.Have you had a specfPL test done? Checking pancreatic values? Special blood draw.Not in a normal blood panel.With Maxwell I kept a logbook for 6 yrs of absolutely everything.his food,how many grams,Bm's,pees,treats,meds,vomits,weight etc.i found it very helpful if something came up i could go back & see if I introduced something new or whatever.plus overall activity level 7 behaviour.he walked on a leash since a runt so we walked a lot.he came running for his leash.So things like that I kept all that.Handwritten of course.I should have typed it then maybe I would be able to type a lot better.LOL Stress levels,changes moves,new kitties etc.They are truly so sensitive we have no idea.Yes they are independent but are also very sensitive...Sorry about the Novel again.HTH honey C.with mysterious typos...
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #12

catlady9441015

TCS Member
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Hey MomofMaxwell,

You didn't overwhelm me, I really appreciate all of the information! 

I'm sorry about your 4 cats.  I have to admit, treating a chronic illness in a pet is a new experience for me.  My last cat died quite suddenly from heart failure, and my last dog went downhill in about a month from an autoimmune disorder, so I've never had to face some of these choices before.

I know how dehydrating diarrhea can be, my poor kitty has been on subq fluids for months.  Not too long ago, I thought I was going to lose him.  He wasn't eating, wasn't drinking, he lost a ton of weight, and he was irritable (he actually bit me, which he had never done since I got him).  It was horrible.  Out of desperation, I adopted his new little kitten friend (he's always been a very social cat).  The difference was amazing, he started eating again and actually gained 3 pounds!  I called my vet today, and she said that trying the apple pectin can't hurt.  So I've ordered a bottle and hopefully it'll arrive soon.

I'll send you a private email either tonight or tomorrow with everything I've tried for my cat in detail.  I've heard of the single protein diet.  I tried it with duck, and he actually cleared up for a week or so, then he was right back to having diarrhea.  I stuck with the duck for a few months, but have since moved on to a different food.  Perhaps trying another protein would be a good idea??

Thanks again.
 

momofmaxwell

TCS Member
Alpha Cat
Joined
Oct 5, 2014
Messages
388
Purraise
61
Location
BC CANADA
Hi Catlady.

I can relate to chronic illnesses big time.Seems like when i was younger either they weren't there or I was too blind to see them.I was blind as they've always been there.Truth be it so Many kitty illnesses out there.Also so many behavioral things.They are very sensitive & don't take to change well at all

Great you have your babe on subq.my Maxwell was on it nightly for 6 yrs but to hydrate his bowel for mega Colon.So yes he was trooper boy.With chronic diarrhea & cats hate having diarrhea as they are such clean animals.But they can't help it.Even B vitamins i don't know if you had a folate/cobalamin test for B's but they are water soluble.So any excess is excreted in the urine.But chronic diarrhea has fluid so I wouldn't be surprised if your babe is low on B's.Which also makes them not well.

Yes if you haven't tried another protein.I would.This one member on the IBD group like I said hired a board certified nutritionist as vets to me are not nutritionists.She was the one who started the white diet.And it took a long time as each protien was tried for three months.

My Internist told me Duck wasn't even a novel protein.That it was too close to poultry.But I believe they are still trying to learn more about it & still don't truly know what triggers it.Slippery Elm is also excellent.those recipes I gave you to soother the gut.It works to help constipation as well as diarrhea.I had one member who was buying it from the health-food store in capsules.She would add it to her kitties food.Her cat would not stop vomiting.Tried everything.She said her 14 yr old boy was like a young boy again.

But I don't know how much she gave & her email add is no longer.So i can't reach her.I'm happy your vet agreed to apple pectin.Do you have something like Babyfood gerbers stage 2 turkey or something you could add to it.?It is bitter.or the regular meat ran in a blender or something then add a pinch & syringe it that way.

A 3ml syringe should be enough.Not any bigger but if you go smaller it might be too bitter & puke.It was dosed as per my friend ,multiple times through the day.Using a whole capsule but split up into tiny doses.So you may have to play around with it.

maybe when you get it open one & taste it.You know you're baby the best so I'm sure you can come up with something.Babyfood (No  onions or garlic) can be frozen in ice cube trays covered in saran.Then when frozen kept in a freezer bag in the freezer.It saves money from it going bad.Just put on a plate in your fridge what you'd used for say two days covered in saran..Anything after that I would chuck & bring out new.

I gave it to Maxwell every day with pumpkin,babyfood butternut squash & his Miralax.Freezing all of them in small ice cube trays(dollar store)He thought of it as a treat.

So yes I can give you some other proteins but the key is finding one let's say that is venison.On that can of venison it can't have in the ingredients any fish oil.Chicken liver,turkey liver etc.Only venison.So this is hard to find.

Many are on Rabbit.Not cheap but does help some.Yes pls when you have time email what all  you have tried.I kept a logbook for Maxwell for 6 yrs of absolutely everything.Meds,food,treats,pees,bm's,vomits etc.It helped a lot in case his condition changed I could go back & look.I recommend you doing that if you can.

Going the novel protein or white diet I would think your syringing of the pectin(with meat combined) should stay in that class of proteins so may have to be the exact meat but whipped up a bit or something.Also treats that would have to also be only that protein.Like dehydrated something.

Hope to talk to you soon.Hugs C. Sorry for the novel again.LOL
 
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