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Cloning website

post #1 of 23
Thread Starter 
Cloning survey

Check out their prices?!
post #2 of 23
omg! that is steep to clone a cat, when i can adopt from a shelter!
post #3 of 23
OMG

Why would I want to clone ? There are to many cats/dogs already here what need homes and other animals . Just look at the petsfinder and you can even find pigs and cows there .
post #4 of 23
Unbelievable! And that guarantee...what a bunch of hogwash! As far as I know they don't have the technology to guarantee the resemblance (i.e. they can't manipulate the genes to get one color over another, let alone facial shape, body shape, etc.), and there isn't enough data to guarantee the health, as far as knowing if there are long-term health risks.

And especially when there are SO many cats who need homes, why would you possibly clone one???
post #5 of 23
I find the whole business unbelievable. Even if it were possible to get an exact physical copy, what about personality? It's not going to be the same pet, so why bother? As a teen, I went out with a guy who had an identical twin. Personality-wise, they were completely different.
post #6 of 23
I guess I am going to be of the opposite opinion of most everyone here. As my 18 old cat Snoopy gets older and older, I wish I could afford to clone him. He's a gem, and life without him seems like it will be unbarable to me. If I could get an exact replica of him, including his sweet nature, I'd go for it. The only thing I worry about, is would the clone have the same depth of soul, or if it would even have a soul.
post #7 of 23
A clone is really nothing more than an identical twin. In cats identical twins have the same bone and body structure but NOT idential markings on their fur and skin. (A gray tabby would still have a gray tabby twin, but it would not be an identically marked gray tabby.)

The interest in cloning pets seems to be growing. I know one person who had his cat that died this past year frozen in preparation for future cloning. It was quite expensive.

My impression is people think they can get back their beloved pet. While I can certainly understand this desire, it's not founded in fact. A cloned animal, while genetically identical, does not have the same life experiences and so would have a different personality.

George
post #8 of 23
Oh My!
post #9 of 23
Did anyone else fill this in?
post #10 of 23
Even though it is a survey, I did not bother to fill it up. If cloning is ever perfected, and become affordable, I don't think I would do it. I believe cloning is just a physical copy. I don't think you can clone the spirit/soul.
post #11 of 23
No Sam , I have not done that . No need to suport that in filling that in ,IMO. I am against cloning .
post #12 of 23
I filled in the survey, and answered the optional question:

Although I love my cats dearly, I would not consider cloning. It would not be the same cat, only a physical look alike. When one of my cats dies, I will go to the shelter to adopt another one. There are enough cats there that need good homes. I don't want a pale imitation of my dear friend.
post #13 of 23
Agreeing with the silliness of this, as most people have reacted, I thought that I read that cloning of certain animals, including cats, winds up with an animal which is genetically the same as the source, but for some scientific reason related to how cats derive their color/markings, may not actually look the same, if that is the goal.
For example, my backwards Meezer, Razpy, with his brown fur and white toes, could if cloned, turn out to look like a regular meezer, as his littermate did. The other issue for me is that no one really knows what happens to these cloned animals as they age, since most of the ones that they have cloned so far, seem to have died fairly young, although always for 'unrelated' reasons.

They keep showing those cloned sheep, but in truth, I would have a hard time distinguishing one from another! If this makes me bovine-insensitive, so be it!
post #14 of 23
I'm totally against cloning, I think it's so wrong, I filled in the survey and added my little bit, tastefully of course.

Brenda I like the way you worded it.

Lucia I see what you mean about , telling sheep apart, they can't do it these days unless they have something stamped on them or a ear tagged?!
post #15 of 23
Remember Stephen King's "Pet Cemetary"? This is my association. And like in the book I can somewhat relate to people's desire to clone. In the book, they "ressuracte" the cat by accident, but then they use the same method to bring back to life the body of their son. And this is where I can relate. I think if you lose someone very close, be it human or cat, the desire to bring them back from the dead is overwhelming. So much so, you may be willing ot take a chance and bring back the a resemblance, hoping that it might just be similar enough. A similar theme is in Speilberg's "A.I." where the director of the robots company creates a humanoid robot that looks exactly like his dead son. I think the drive is understandable. Looking at it calmly we can say this is wrong as it won't really bring back the loved person or cat, but someone grieving isn't entirely rational about it.

My $0.02
post #16 of 23
I have mixed feelings about cloning.

Fistly, I do believe that it can help with endangered species, provided a technique is perfected. No technique has been perfected. And quite frankly, until scientists gain some common sense and stop cotton balling their subjects, no one will know whether a technique is successful or not. This will of course be a long term project, not some quick one hour show for the media to lap up.

Also, the techonology used in cloning has the potential to be applied to human medicine, but that leads to stem cell research and that's a whole other subject.

Secondly, I believe cloning should not be used for replacing a lost loved one. This doesn't help the situation. It only worsens it. Think of it like this. A child's pet dies. A parent with the best intentions replaces it with an identical looking replacement. Child goes on thinking nothing is the matter until one day they realise that the pet is a replacement. Surely, you wouldn't expect happiness from the child? It's the same situation with cloning. It is simply a lie that is being lived.

Price? Well In my opinion, expect to pay at least $15000, the technology used is not cheap. Also, many clones need to be made in order to create an acceptable one. And not to mention, surrogate mothers need to be found. Not to mention ongoing vet costs, medical treatments, food etc.
post #17 of 23
Quote:
Originally posted by Anne
Remember Stephen King's "Pet Cemetary"? This is my association. And like in the book I can somewhat relate to people's desire to clone. In the book, they "ressuracte" the cat by accident, but then they use the same method to bring back to life the body of their son. And this is where I can relate. I think if you lose someone very close, be it human or cat, the desire to bring them back from the dead is overwhelming. So much so, you may be willing ot take a chance and bring back the a resemblance, hoping that it might just be similar enough. A similar theme is in Speilberg's "A.I." where the director of the robots company creates a humanoid robot that looks exactly like his dead son. I think the drive is understandable. Looking at it calmly we can say this is wrong as it won't really bring back the loved person or cat, but someone grieving isn't entirely rational about it.

My $0.02
Goodness, I forgot about that book, which I have to say, was one of the few novels I've ever read that gave me the creeps! A good analogy. (The other was The Bone Collector by Jeffrey Deaver; you'll never quite look at a cab driver in the same way after that one.)

I do agree with love_less gem's thoughts that the technology which underlies cloning still needs to be considered for its scientific/medical potential, but not to replicate a lost loved one.
post #18 of 23
Thread Starter 
Carbon kitty's $50,000 price tag

By Maggie Shiels

in California



Cats can now have more than nine lives thanks to a Californian company that is the first

US firm to go commercial and offer the public a pet cloning service.



Five customers have already parted with $50,000 each for a copy of their cats.



Genetic Savings & Clone says work will start in May to clone the animals, with the first kittens

arriving by November if the procedures prove successful.



CEO Lou Hawthorne told BBC News Online the company had already begun to clone three

other cats for staff members.



The "show animals" would be presented to the American Veterinary Medical Association conference next year. Mr Hawthorne expects one to be a copy of his six-month-old Bengal cat, called Tahini.

"We may have pregnancies right now. I'm keeping my fingers crossed," he said. "There are ultrasounds going on all this week."

Quality assurance

The company does have some pedigree in this line of work.

It was involved with Texas A & M University in creating the world's first cat clone. Operation CopyCat produced Cc, short for carbon copy, which Mr Hawthorne said was now a healthy and adorable two-year-old.

" The issue with cats is not how to do it; the issue is how to do it perfectly "

Lou Hawthorne

However, Mr Hawthorne said feline cloning was still complex, time consuming and costly.

"The cloning, pregnancy and weaning processes take approximately six months from start to finish; the final stage being delivery of the clones to their new families.

"The issue with cats is not how to do it," he explains, "the issue is how to do it perfectly with the best quality of results."

It is believed Cc took over 80 attempts before the process worked. Mr Hawthorne claims with the new technology his company is using, the failure rate can be reduced tenfold.

An important "buyer beware" warning comes from the company itself that says it will produce unique, newborn animals; not full-grown exact replicas.

Mr Hawthorne said: "There are people out there who use the statement that cloning is reproduction not resurrection. But the interesting part from the genetic perspective is that this is resurrection.

"It is not in terms of a level of consciousness, but in terms of genetics you are getting the same animal back. Personality-wise there are differences."

Refund policy

Curt Youngs, an associate professor in the Animal Science Department of Iowa State University in Ames, fears that some people might be unhappy that their cloned animal is not a living reincarnation of the animal they have lost or are about to lose.

"I think people are going to be disappointed that Fluffy neither looks the same nor acts the same," he said.

" My relationships with my dogs have lasted longer than my marriage and in some cases it was a better relationship "

Jayne Lange

One of the interesting features of Cc's creation was how different her coat pattern turned out compared with that of her genetic "mother".

David Magnus, co-director of the Center for Biomedical Ethics at Stanford University, said: "The people who want this are spending huge sums of money to get their pet immortalised or to guarantee they're getting a pet exactly like the one they had before - and it's simply not possible."

Mr Hawthorne does not disagree and says anyone who is not happy will get a full refund and the animal will be put up for adoption.

As well as those who have paid to have their cats cloned, several hundred have signed up to preserve tissue from their cat or dog for future cloning.

These people pay around $900 a year plus a further $150 for maintenance costs.

Cells are harvested through a skin biopsy done by a vet who removes a coin-sized sample from the pet's stomach and inside its mouth.

Product satisfaction

Mary Ann Daniel, from Costa Mesa in California, has banked some of 19-year-old Smokey's DNA with Genetic Savings.

She said: "We had Smokey neutered at a young age. We wanted some of his offspring, so when we heard about cloning we thought it was just the perfect thing for us to do.



"We want to have a cat that has some of his characteristics. Not necessarily all of them, but

something."



Jayne Lange, from Palo Alto, works in the biotech industry. She has also banked the DNA of

her two dogs, which are rare and ancient Japanese hunting dogs.



One called Akeya died as a result of a tumour and the other, Waka, is now five years old. Ms

Lange said she was not "a crazy animal type" but admitted her dogs meant the world to her.



"My relationships with my dogs have lasted longer than my marriage and in some cases it

was a better relationship."

Price promise

Organisations like the Humane Society of the United States, an animal protection group based in Washington DC, takes issue with pet cloning when shelters kill roughly four million animals every year because they are not wanted.

It says that in most cases owners want to clone their pets because they are experiencing difficulty with the loss or eventual loss of those pets.

Animal cloning in America is not illegal - unlike human cloning. On the legislative front, the commercial launch of cat cloning has not ruffled any feathers, yet.

But opposition might not be long in rearing its head. Earlier this year, officials in California cited ethical concerns when they banned the sale of Glofish, genetically modified zebra fish that fluoresce.

Mr Hawthorne is not worried and argues the company operates to the highest standards, and believes regulation would drive out the charlatans.

Genetic Savings hopes to be cloning thousands of pets annually in five years, when the cost should be down to $10,000 for a cat and $20,000 for a dog.

post #19 of 23
Ugh. Don't some people realise that it is way cheaper to adopt a pet from the shelter than to clone one?? The clones won't have the same personality as their cats did.
post #20 of 23
Interesting article especially with regards to neutering the cat and desiring an off spring. I think at about $10,000 the price seems partially commercially viable.

Such a cute name, Copycat much better than Dolly in my opinion. Love the name fluffy too.
post #21 of 23
Do you remember Dolly the sheep they cloned over here in the UK? The poor thing aged that quickly it was put to suffering for the sake of satisfying some scientist, I don't think it should be allowed.
post #22 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cilla
Do you remember Dolly the sheep they cloned over here in the UK? The poor thing aged that quickly it was put to suffering for the sake of satisfying some scientist, I don't think it should be allowed.
Well to be precise, if I am not wrong, Dolly did not age quickly, she merely was born 'old.' She had shorter telomeres, which protects the chromosomes. Think of telomeres are the plastic tip of your shoelace and the chromosomes as the shoelace. Each time they divide the tip gets shorter. And when the tip is gone, just like the shoelace, it starts to fray and gets damage.

I recall reading that telomeres could be linked to immortality. If you can genetically engineer or do something which extends it, a person can live much longer.

Personally, I am quite excited about cloning both therapeutic cloning and reproductive cloning.
post #23 of 23
I think it is great technology. I don't know that I would want to get my cat cloned, but I don't see anything wrong with someone else doing it, if they have the desire and the money to do so.

Aqua
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