Need more help from the experts

Hi all !! I currently have 2 unsocialized kittys. They are around 4 months. They have had someone feed them regularly but have a complete fear of human touch. They are both in my kitty room but for some reason im feeling discouraged. One kitty is nicer then the other. I had the tougher one crated for a few days but he stopped hissing at me everytime I came near the crate and started letting me put treats right to his face so I let him out in the room. They will both eat in front of me and play but as soon as I move they scatter. The one boy will tolerate me picking him up but clearly doesnt enjoy it and now that I let the othed one out I cant get anywhere near him without his ears going flat and him hissing. So I guess Im wondering if these guys have any hope. I usually foster young ferals who come along faster so I was just wondering where to go from here. What Ive been doing is just sitting in the room with them. They have a tv in there also. Is that enough, what else can I do.

Id appreciate any thoughts you have.

Yes. There is definitely hope. The best thing for you to do now is relax. They are picking up on the stress and tension you feel. They are babies. They are still trying to figure out this new life that they have and get used to all the new sights, smells and sounds. 

Unless you absolutely have to, I would not pick them up if they are showing signs that they don't like it.  Right now, you're building trust with these kittens and by you doing that when they don't want it, it's not helping with that. It may come in time that they allow you to pick them up but it might not. Cats are not a lot different than people. They all have their individual likes, dislikes, etc. 

Spend time in the room with them but do not instigate physical contact with them. Let them come to you. Cats are not dogs. They need to feel as though they are in charge of the relationship and when they feel as though they are, they will relax and become curious about you. Go into the room with them and sit or lay on the floor. Try to be at their eye level so you are not "looming" over them. 

Avoid direct eye contact. This is seen to most animals as a sign of aggression. when you look at them, keep your gaze just to one side. Look at them, slowly blink your eyes and then look away. This is how cats greet one another. it's how they, "HI! I see you and I'm not a threat to you". Cats know this move instinctively. You will see as you go along that they will start to return it to you. 

When you're in the room with them, talk to them in a soft voice. Tell them about your day, about the weather, about anything. About nothing. Read to them. I had to socialize an 8 year old cat that lived in a shelter his whole life but was not socialized. I bought some baby books at a thrift store and read to him. I read to him like you would a toddler. I'd read the page and then show him the picture and say, OK, now here's Tigger and he's doing this". Henry has a very expressive face and he often looked at me like I had 2 heads but I could tell he enjoyed it. This gets them used to your presence and your voice in a nice, calm, non threatening manner. 

When you want to touch them, reach your hand out in a fist. The size of your fist is similar to the size of a cat's head. Cats greet each other with head butts. This is also instinctive. As you do this, they will come over to explore your hand and will start to head butt it.  You can gradually move on to the open handed pets once they become more comfortable.  You can can also get down on all fours and stretch like a cat. 

These cats are still babies so you have that  advantage. The best tools you have now are time, endless patience and infinite amounts of love. Cats are not like dogs in that they do not give their love and trust indiscriminately. You have to earn it but once you do, it will create an unbreakable bond that lasts forever. Anything that you have to earn is far more valuable than something that is just handed to you. (not that I have anything against dogs. I have one and they are fantastic in their own way)

Hang in there. YOU CAN DO THIS. There will be setbacks. Count on it. Just stay calm and realize that these are just part of the process. Growing pains.  Try to remember that anything they do or don't do is not personal towards you. It took Henry almost 7 months to come out of his safe room despite the fact that the door was open 24/7 for about 5 of those months. I was going crazy thinking I was doing something wrong or he didn't like me. That wasn't the case. I had to force myself to relax and realize that he had to do things his way at his pace and these kittens are no different. 

Everything is going to be OK. 

Oh yeah. Don't forget to bring treats when you go in their room and they display behavior that you want. You want them to associate you with good things. Pure Bites freeze dried chicken breast treats are a great one that a lot of cats really like

I have a question. They have there kitty room but I am feeling like I cant devote as much time in there as I should. I have a 2 story cat cage in my living room from some kittens I fostered for a bit. The one kitty that lets me pick him up, can I put him in there for a few hours in the evening when my family is out there to help socialize him ?

Sorry, I just saw this. I think your plan has merit. He can be with humans yet won't be able to wander (or hide). I would just avoid interacting with him in a way that might make him feel trapped. For instance, don't tower over him while he is in the cage. Sit at his level, speK softly to or around him, no suddenmoves, etc.

thank you for helping them both.

I have had some good progress I think but still have a long way to go. The one kitty runs to the nearest corner as soon as you walk in but will come and take treats from my hand once I sit down. The other guy doesnt hide but isnt sure of us. I have 2 more questions. I will probably get the entire liter which is 4 of them. Will they want to be bothered with me if they are all together. Also if I cant get them sociaized in a few months can I neuter and still release them into there colony.

If they are too unsocialized to be adopted and you have a colony that is well-cared for, then releasing them after spay/neutering is a great plan.

Just take your time and all your patience and I am betting they will come around. Remember, they won't necessarily be lapcats but they'll get used to the idea of being around humans. I hope they surprise you and become cuddle bugs!