Opinions wanted regarding first yearly check-up

fyllis

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Both of my cats were promptly vetted when I received them at 6 weeks of age and received full vaccine series when indicated, were dewormed, and given full exams. They were given a good bill of health.

Last Friday, I took my two boys in for their first yearly check-up and vaccines and I have a couple questions based on the following information:

Both are strictly indoor cats with no contact with other animals; 3rd floor, no balcony - open windows when weather permits. Neither has ever had fleas, worms, or other parasites. They are both 18 months and were sucessfully neutered at 4 months and are in very good health. They are both structurally 'big' boys; not overweight (in my opinion).

Both were curious, playful, yet cooperative during the exams.

Keeker (DSH):
vitals within normal limits
eyes and lungs clear
weight - 14.1 pounds
shoulder height (standing) - 11"
head circumference -12"
ear to tail base - 23"
abdominal girth - 19"
body is long, lithe, and very solid musculature


very active

coat is sleek and shiny with very little dander and moderate shedding

History: treated for a cat bite/local bacterial infection to the head 4/2015
(alpha cat). No adversities/healed well


mildly aggressive play behavior  

Kricket (MC):
vitals within normal limits
eyes and lungs clear
weight -13.9 pounds
shoulder height (standing) -13"
head circumference - 13"
ear to tail base - 18"
Abdominal girth - 17" 
rectangle, boxy, solid (developing a slight abdominal flap)


fairly active (not as much as Keeker)

coat is soft and silky, no visible dander with moderately heavy shedding (and no mats)

History: treated for severe ear mites accompanied by fungal infection at 6 weeks.

No adversities or repeat infestation.

calm, affectionate. no aggression 

Diet for both consists of approx 1/3 cup dry (each) for adult indoor food for cats (they are free-fed, but this is all they consume in 24 hours). They also receive 1.5 ounces (each) wet food - once in the morning and once in the evening (it frequently takes them several hours of returning to the bowl to finish). 

About once a week, they both get either Temptations treats, a tablespoon of non-dairy yogurt, OR either approx 1.0 ounce canned chicken (in water) or fresh cooked chicken (no spices or additives) drizzled with the broth.

 

They get water added to their wet food and also have a water fountain to drink from that they both love and use regularly. 

The vet prepared all vaccines, but I stipulated Rabies vaccine only. My reasoning being that they are strictly indoors with no outside exposure to other animals and have no health issues. My vet agreed that it wasn't necessary to subject them to 'all the other' vaccines. I also waived Revolution treatment for the same reason. I believe the risks outweigh the benefits in their case.

Question #1 - Could I get some opinions on my choice of only the legally required Rabies vaccine?

I was a bit surprised when my vet stated he felt they should each lose between 2 to 3 pounds. Based on their over all appearance, weight, and current diet I don't see the need for this. He stated they are both within normal weight limits for their breed and body size, but his reasoning was because they are indoor neutered males and are 'prone' to obesity. 

Note: I was actually contemplating reducing their dry food (due to dry having high carbs and low protein, among other factors) and gradually switching to all wet; however, at this point, I am undecided because wet food has more calories. My mind is boggled as to what to do or how and when to do it. 

They are both active every day - chasing each other, playing with toys on their own, as well as getting interactive play time with me. 

Question #2 - Would anyone care to share their opinion on whether or not I should put them on a weight reducing diet at this time? 

I appreciate all input. If I get enough 'opinions' here to make me question my choices, I will seek the advice of another vet. (I was on the phone most of yesterday speaking with various vets within a 50 mile radius of me; two of which were 'cats only' vets and have chosen one as an option - even though her office charge is $46.00 per cat, whereas my vet charged only $19.75 each cat for their yearly exam and Rabies vac. But I am willing to pay if deemed necessary to assure I made the right choice).

Thanks in advance for any information of value.

Recent pictures - 

View media item 300469
View media item 298073
 
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kittymomma1122

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I have 3 siblings that are now 2 1/2 yrs old. At their 1 year visit they were not fully grown yet. I also have a 8 year old. The boys are 15.5 and 16.5 lbs. They are long and lean, one is taller than the other. My girl is 13.5 lbs. My vets says they are just big cats, she says they have healthy body types. My older boy has a smaller frame and weighs 12.5 lbs. We do play Da Bird every night because they are neutered/spayed indoor only cats.
 

LTS3

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Actually, canned food is much lower in calories than most dry foods. TCS members often recommend canned food for weight loss. There's this chart that lists nutritional info for many brands of canned food: http://catinfo.org/docs/FoodChartPublic9-22-12.pdf Plus, canned food is a lot healthier for cats than dry so increasing the amount of canned food in the diet would be great. The Catinfo.org web site goes into more detail about cat nutrition and a section on how to help an overweight cat to safely lose weight. There are also articles here on TCs about diet.

I don't think neutering/spaying causes a cat to be more prone to obesity. Many people overfeed their cats too many calories daily and don't give enough playtime, IMO. The general rule is to feed about 20 to 25 calories per pound of ideal body weight daily. Some cats may need more or less depending on breed, activity level, etc. I suggest feeding enough calories to keep each cat at a good body condition. 13 and 14 pounds aren't terribly overweight for 18 months old. Some cats may be naturally on the heavier side or big boned. If you feel that your cats' weight are fine, then keep the same feeding routine. Vets suggest many things but oftentimes you don't have to go along with the suggestion.

Some people here do not vaccinate their cats for anything at all, not even rabies. Personally I feel that at a minimum rabies should be given just in case a cat gets outside somehow. If your cat bites or scratches someone who ends up needing medical treatment, you will have proof of the rabies vaccination (vets usually give a certificate and/or collar tag). A monthly parasite preventative should be given since you and your guests can bring fleas and other parasites into your home unknowingly.
 

stephanietx

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If you switch to a grain-free wet food, they will probably lose weight.  I have found that I am the biggest factor in my cats' weights and I monitor them closely.  My former vet liked lean kitties.  My current vet likes them to have a little meat on their bones so they don't look emaciated, but healthy and not overweight.  This thread has a couple of really great charts that will help you determine if your kitty is at its ideal weight.

http://www.thecatsite.com/t/213862/ideal-weight-for-cat

What I have found is that if I go to scheduled feedings and only feed a set amount of food, my cats' weights are better.  So I feed a grain-free wet twice a day.  I supplement with 1/8 C to 1/4 C (our male cat is larger, so he gets a bit more food) of grain-free dry food a few times a day.  My husband is home all day, so they get a snack size serving of dry at lunch and then another small snack size serving mid-evening.  We also give them a small snack just before bedtime.

As for the rabies shot, that's the only shot I give my kitties and I only do it every 3-5 years.  There is a 3-year rabies vax out there.  Personally, after they get their initial round of kitten shots and their first rabies shot, I am not sure they need any other shots for the rest of their lives.  If you're concerned, you can always ask the vet to do a titer on their levels and then vaccinate if need be.
 

manemelissa

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I agree with the others about the vaccines. My Belle has inflammatory reactions to vaccines, so her vet and I talked about only doing rabies (it's required by law here). She is indoor only and in good health. Rabies (non-adjuvant) is the only one I will be doing when her yearly checkup comes up again. If you have a good vet, they should understand this, as reactions to vaccines (especially ones with adjuvant added) are becoming more common in cats.
 
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fyllis

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I would be very careful soaking wet cat food in water, it provides the opportunity for bacteria and fungi to multiply and can make your kitties very sick. http://www.catnutrition.org/faq.html
The info I read refers to 'soaking' dry food in water to make it softer and more palatable for your cat. That is not what I do. I simply add an extra tablespoon of water to their wet canned food so they get more water. They already drink from a fountain, which they love! But because they DO get dry food right now, I want them to have access to additional water to avoid potential digestive problems. 

My goal is to eventually transition them to wet/canned food completely, but all the info on carbs, proteins, fats and calories throws me for a loop. IS there a 'best' wet/canned food out there, and if so, which one is it? I've read the info provided by Lisa A. Pierson, DVM, but the terminology and charts are above the levels of my thinking cap. Not to mention the wet food I am giving is not anywhere on her chart, so I really don't know where it falls in the ranks.

They prefer Pate` (will actually walk away from the chunky foods and go to their dry food instead) and they turn their noses up to everything but Sheba (I've offered 6 different brands over the past year).

This is the label info from a 3.0 ounce can of Turkey Entree - Pate` -

Guaranteed Analysis:

Crude protein, Min, 11.0%
Crude fat, Min 5.0%
Crude fiber, Max 1.5%
Moisture, Max 78.0%
Ash, Max 3.0%
Taurine, Min 0.05%


Ingredients:

Turkey, Turkey Broth, Meat By-Products, Chicken, Chicken Liver, Poultry By-Products, Natural Flavor, Minerals (Potassium Chloride, Calcium Carbonate, Magnesium Sulfate, Zinc Sulfate, Iron Sulfate, Manganese Sulfate, Potassium Iodide, Copper Sulfate), Guar Gum, Added Color, Sodium Tripolyphosphate, Fish Oil (Preserved with Mixed Tocopherols), Vitamins (Choline Chloride, Thiamine Mononitrate [Vitamin B1], Vitamin E Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride [Vitamin B6], Vitamin D3 Supplement, Folic Acid, Menadione Sodium Bisulfite Complex [Source of Vitamin K Activity]), DL-Methionine, Salt, Taurine.

My only concerns with all of this is the 'added color' right in the midst of all the ingredients. It surely isn't necessary because my (or any other cats) couldn't possibly give a rat's butt about the color of their food as long as it tastes good! Not to mention the potential harm the dye could cause. The ash content is right on the border, but not excessively so. I try to look for ash contents at about 2.8% or lower. Also, there is no percentage of carbs or a calorie amount. 

So, just by looking at this label... what the heck AM I looking at? And what should I be looking for? It seems that no matter what brand or flavor I look at, every last one of them has pro's and con's, so I have been trying to find the one's with the most pro's and now I'm not even sure I am doing that right!  (Ironically, I have found more con's in the more notorious and expensive brands). I know I could always go the 'homemade' route, but that isn't an option for me. Maybe I should just start raising mice and chipmunks! LOL

Can anybody explain this to me in a language/terms I can understand?
 
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fyllis

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I agree with the others about the vaccines. My Belle has inflammatory reactions to vaccines, so her vet and I talked about only doing rabies (it's required by law here). She is indoor only and in good health. Rabies (non-adjuvant) is the only one I will be doing when her yearly checkup comes up again. If you have a good vet, they should understand this, as reactions to vaccines (especially ones with adjuvant added) are becoming more common in cats.
That is what I opted for - just the 3 year Rabies and nothing else, and my vet agreed with that being OK. They used the PureVax by Merial. 
 

manemelissa

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That is what I opted for - just the 3 year Rabies and nothing else, and my vet agreed with that being OK. They used the PureVax by Merial. 
That's good! I'm glad your vet was in agreement and that is a good vaccine.

As for them losing weight... I would go with what you feel is right at this point. It sounds like you are someone who cares deeply about their cats and you have already done a good deal of research of your own regarding their care. You know your cats and you seem to already know what is normal and a healthy weight. When my cat started getting overweight, I cut back her food a little and waited and when she stabilized at 10.5lbs (she's a smaller gal) I knew that was the right amount of food for her.
 

ruthm

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The info I read refers to 'soaking' dry food in water to make it softer and more palatable for your cat. That is not what I do. I simply add an extra tablespoon of water to their wet canned food so they get more water. They already drink from a fountain, which they love! But because they DO get dry food right now, I want them to have access to additional water to avoid potential digestive problems. 

My goal is to eventually transition them to wet/canned food completely, but all the info on carbs, proteins, fats and calories throws me for a loop. IS there a 'best' wet/canned food out there, and if so, which one is it? I've read the info provided by Lisa A. Pierson, DVM, but the terminology and charts are above the levels of my thinking cap. Not to mention the wet food I am giving is not anywhere on her chart, so I really don't know where it falls in the ranks.

They prefer Pate` (will actually walk away from the chunky foods and go to their dry food instead) and they turn their noses up to everything but Sheba (I've offered 6 different brands over the past year).

This is the label info from a 3.0 ounce can of Turkey Entree - Pate` -

Guaranteed Analysis:

Crude protein, Min, 11.0%
Crude fat, Min 5.0%
Crude fiber, Max 1.5%
Moisture, Max 78.0%
Ash, Max 3.0%
Taurine, Min 0.05%


Ingredients:

Turkey, Turkey Broth, Meat By-Products, Chicken, Chicken Liver, Poultry By-Products, Natural Flavor, Minerals (Potassium Chloride, Calcium Carbonate, Magnesium Sulfate, Zinc Sulfate, Iron Sulfate, Manganese Sulfate, Potassium Iodide, Copper Sulfate), Guar Gum, Added Color, Sodium Tripolyphosphate, Fish Oil (Preserved with Mixed Tocopherols), Vitamins (Choline Chloride, Thiamine Mononitrate [Vitamin B1], Vitamin E Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride [Vitamin B6], Vitamin D3 Supplement, Folic Acid, Menadione Sodium Bisulfite Complex [Source of Vitamin K Activity]), DL-Methionine, Salt, Taurine.

My only concerns with all of this is the 'added color' right in the midst of all the ingredients. It surely isn't necessary because my (or any other cats) couldn't possibly give a rat's butt about the color of their food as long as it tastes good! Not to mention the potential harm the dye could cause. The ash content is right on the border, but not excessively so. I try to look for ash contents at about 2.8% or lower. Also, there is no percentage of carbs or a calorie amount. 

So, just by looking at this label... what the heck AM I looking at? And what should I be looking for? It seems that no matter what brand or flavor I look at, every last one of them has pro's and con's, so I have been trying to find the one's with the most pro's and now I'm not even sure I am doing that right!  (Ironically, I have found more con's in the more notorious and expensive brands). I know I could always go the 'homemade' route, but that isn't an option for me. Maybe I should just start raising mice and chipmunks! LOL

Can anybody explain this to me in a language/terms I can understand?
Please forgive my typo- I meant to type " be careful about adding water to dry food",
....it has been a long day.  It is good to add water to wet food, it makes the food more palatable for most kitties. 

Dr. Pierson's chart includes only information from companies that responded to her request for information- so if you can't find the food on her chart, it is likely the company did not offer the information, or it is a newer company as the chart was last updated in 2012. 

What is the food you are currently feeding?  I am more concerned with the "by products" in a food and try to avoid buying anything with that ingredient.  And like you, I don't like food coloring or additives or preservatives. It is a little mind boggling to find the perfect food!   my previous kitty was diabetic, had early stage CKD, pancreatitis and early stages of IBD, so I had many ingredients that I did not want her to have. Dr. Lisa's chart made it easy to find the carbohydrate and fat and protein percentage for example, and also the phosphorus, which was important for CKD.

The Internal Medicine vet that we go to said her oldest client was 20 and was an outdoor kitty who lived on mice and squirrels, cats are carnivores after all. Some of my friends feed a raw diet, but I have not made up my mind whether to go that route yet.
 

happybird

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My vet (cats only) participates in a long-term study of vaccine related sarcoma and recommends only getting the 1 year rabies vaccine. She told us the incidence of sarcoma is higher with the 3 and the 5 year vaccines. Our youngest cat participates in the study as a statistic (no sarcoma, 1 year vaccine X 3 years, so far). My sister-in-law, my other vet, recommends the same.
Here is a little info on that, if you are not familar: https://www.avma.org/KB/Resources/Reference/Pages/rbbroch.aspx
 
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LTS3

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but all the info on carbs, proteins, fats and calories throws me for a loop. IS there a 'best' wet/canned food out there, and if so, which one is it? I've read the info provided by Lisa A. Pierson, DVM, but the terminology and charts are above the levels of my thinking cap. Not to mention the wet food I am giving is not anywhere on her chart, so I really don't know where it falls in the ranks.
The "best" food is the one that your cats will eat and you can afford
There isn't any brand that is better than another. What works for one person's cats may not work for yours. Some people feed Fancy Feast, others feed the high end premium brands. There is absolutely nothing wrong with Fancy Feast Gourmet / Classic pates. It's affordable and easy to find for many people and most cats like it.

See these articles for help on choosing a food:

http://www.thecatsite.com/a/choosing-the-right-food-for-your-cat

http://www.thecatsite.com/a/choosing-the-right-food-for-your-cat-part-2

http://www.thecatsite.com/a/grain-free-cat-food-what-does-it-mean

http://www.thecatsite.com/a/what-makes-the-best-canned-cat-food

http://www.thecatsite.com/a/how-to-compare-cat-foods-calculate-carbs-dry-matter-basis

Feel free to browse and search over on the Nutrition forum for similar threads on what to feed and post there for more help.

Most people recommend high protein, low carb grain-free food. It's recommend that diabetic cats have no more than 10% carbs in the diet but non-diabetics can have a little more that that. I wouldn't feed more than 20% carbs. Some brands of food are like 95% or more protein, like Nature's Variety Instinct and Hounds and Gato. Some people avoid gums and gluten and other things in cat food. The more food criteria you set, the less commercial food you will find that meets those criteria IMO. The only way to make a "perfect" food that meets a bunch of criteria is to feed raw or home cooked where you control the ingredients.

Pet food labels are useless for nutritional information so you have to rely on a chart like Dr. Lisa's for actual info.
 
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fyllis

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Thank you for everyone's input, opinions and suggestions.

I'm not overly concerned about what they are eating right now because they like what they eat, aren't given 'junk food', and they have no health issues. It's just that all my life I have had indoor/outdoor cats that consumed commercial foods as well as the intermittent mouse or chipmunk - no 'structured' diet. Now that I am no longer living the 'country life' and my boys are restricted to indoors only, I have been attempting to be more keen regarding their diets and overall health.

I am going to stick to what is working, and that seems to be my common sense!

Thanks again!
 

crazy4strays

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I absolutely agree with your thoughts on vaccinations.

My indoor/outdoor cat is vaccinated for feline leukemia/FIV, distemper, and rabies.

My indoor cat is only vaccinated for rabies.
 

PushPurrCatPaws

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If you switch to a grain-free wet food, they will probably lose weight.  ...  My former vet liked lean kitties.  My current vet likes them to have a little meat on their bones so they don't look emaciated, but healthy and not overweight.  This thread has a couple of really great charts that will help you determine if your kitty is at its ideal weight.

http://www.thecatsite.com/t/213862/ideal-weight-for-cat

What I have found is that if I go to scheduled feedings and only feed a set amount of food, my cats' weights are better.  ...
:yeah:

Also, I agree with LTS3's comment about "... Most people recommend high protein, low carb grain-free food. It's recommend that diabetic cats have no more than 10% carbs in the diet but non-diabetics can have a little more that that. I wouldn't feed more than 20% carbs. ..." -- I try to stick with mainly 10-13% carbs in the main (rotation) wet foods, and have any 20% carb food be more of a rarity in the diet.
 
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fyllis

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Thank you to everyone who previously posted!

I have received enough information via suggestions, opinions, website info and charts that I am able to make an informed decision regarding my questions.

After much research and many phone calls, I have decided to schedule an appointment with a local cat specialist for a second opinion.

As this thread has become more of a 'Nutrition' thread than general 'Health' thread, I am ending all responses here and, if necessary, will resume this topic on the Nutrition Forum.

Again, Thank you!

Fyllis

(Keeker and Kricket)
 
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