Mother cat with 9 kittens?

I've taken over fostering duties for a mother cat with a litter of 9 kittens. We've been keeping a close eye on their weights and they all are gaining weight well and seem to be nice and healthy and active. My concern is, as they get bigger, it's going to be that much harder for everyone to squeeze in at the milk bar. Has anyone else had a litter of kittens this size that didn't need supplemental feeding? We have been offering them a bottle every day, but they really hate it. They are 17 days old today. Their mother is doing a great job feeding them, not such a great job of pottying, and she is really, really skinny. She has a high protein dry food available to her at all times, and I'm also giving her some watered down canned kitten food mixed with a couple scoops of kitten formula, and I just decided to also start giving her sub-Q fluids as well. Any tips from anyone with litters this large would be appreciated!

You can rotate the kittens as they get bigger.

You should get some udder balm for mom's nipples.  They are going to be very sore.

She should also get more wet food if possible.

Here is a link to someone who's cat had 9 kittens.

http://www.thecatsite.com/t/300711/help-first-time-kitten-mom/240#post_3837743

I'm not understanding why she needs sub-q fluids. She should be eating several cans of high protein wet food a day, as much as she wants actually, and drinking a couple of dishes of kitten milk as well. Offer a bowl of fresh water at all times.

The kittens will need to be rotated every couple of hours on mom, and any runts supplemented. Have you been weighing the kittens each day? This is the only way to know how well each is gaining.

If she's not able to handle all of the cleaning and pottying, you'll need to pitch in and help.

Can you post pictures?

I work with a rescue group and we took her and her daughter, who had a litter of 3 kittens at the time. They came from a home where they were receiving very poor quality food (mostly corn) and the family was using dirt in the litter boxes. They're eating a high quality grain-free holistic dry food, as well as canned kitten food, and some canned a/d prescription diet food, but both adult cats have had a very hard time gaining weight. The younger cat has been seen by a vet for eye issues who recommended giving her sub-Q fluids to keep her hydrated so she doesn't start to feel so bad that she stops eating, which is why I decided to do it with the mother of the litter of nine. It may not be completely necessary, but it certainly won't hurt to get some extra fluids into her.  As I stated, we've been keeping a close eye on their weights, we weigh them twice a day. This is not my first litter, I've fostered many pregnant cats, but the largest litter I've had so far is six. The runt of this  litter was 7.23 oz at last weigh-in, the two largest were 9.63 oz.

Based on the weights, you need to be supplementing most of the kittens several times a day with kitten formula. It sounds like the biggest two are getting more milk while the smallest are barely getting by.

It is a big litter, but you still want your kittens to weigh around 12 ounces each at 3 weeks old, and about a pound at 4 weeks. You've got runts who are seriously behind. They will need supplementing with a good 10 mL's apiece every 4 hours to catch up.

You're doing good work though! Thank you for rescuing these two moms! Hopefully they will get their health back after their kittens wean. I'm surprised all of the kittens have lived this long with the moms so malnourished.

Kittens who have mom, are often difficult to take bottle... Its not so nice.  So either try many times,  or use a syringe. Syringe is usually easier.   I gather you are used to feeding with syringe?

9 kittens on a more or less emaciated momma is much, and it will get even worse  during a couple of weeks, till they begins to eat on their own, and the burden begins to lessen...

So this way the subQ  may be a good idea.

 If you can get a pedialyte equivalent for subQ is probably even better than just water.  - Common pedialyte is NOT supposed to be given subQ, Im mentioning this to be sure every reader understands this.

If you can get goat milk, its useful too, both for kittens and the mom.  Raw egg yolk added is very nourishing.

I actually have not syringe fed kittens before. I've syringe fed adult cats when they've been ill, but that's a different matter. We normally have a woman who handles our bottle babies, but she is not currently able to take them. I'm taking over this litter from another foster because she is newly pregnant and her doctor instructed her to remove all foster cats from the household due to risk of toxoplasmosis. (PLEASE no opinions, advice or commentary on that issue, that's between her and her doctor) I have the queen with the litter of nine, her adult daughter who is on medication and not wanting to eat,  another mother with an older kitten that has had some seizure issues, as well as 5 other young kittens.  So, I don't have a lot of spare time, but if the kittens need to be syringe fed, then I will do it.

The fluids I am giving is Lactated Ringers solution, which is a sterile solution that can be given intravenously or subcutaneously.  It was obtained from a vet's office. I have not tried the raw egg yolk for the nursing mother, but I will try it.  Does the goat's milk need to be raw? I'm not sure if that's readily available around here.

gmm80 said:

 
The fluids I am giving is Lactated Ringers solution, which is a sterile solution that can be given intravenously or subcutaneously.  It was obtained from a vet's office. I have not tried the raw egg yolk for the nursing mother, but I will try it.  Does the goat's milk need to be raw? I'm not sure if that's readily available around here.

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Yes, that is such a fluid I was thinking on.  Refreshing the memory, I see it doenst contain glucose, not said in clear cut anyways.  I thought it did contain some glucose too...  Anyways, the saline contents are good, the buffering is useful, and its sterile...

Yeah, egg yolk is excellent, its in almost all swedish recipes of  food for weak recovalescents and emaciated queens.      Of course, here in Sweden we dont have any problems with salomonella in eggs, so its easy for us. to recommend it.   While salomonella in eggs may be a real danger in many other countries, that is why we have difficulty to go out with it as an all around recommendation for everyone.. We had among others, a lenghy thread about it several years ago in the nutrition forum.  But it seems to have got better with this in the USA since a couple of years, as our american forumites usually do accept the idea without asking much what to do to lessen the risk.

Boiled do contain the same nourishment, but I suspect strongly its not as easily accessible and digestible.    But boiled egg white is OK, pure proteins!   while raw egg white is not recommendable for cats - destroys some B-vitamines if raw.

Raw goat milk is best, either fresh or frozen raw.  But bottled / cartooned, even from powder, are OK too, if its full fat, ie 2,8-4%.   Fat reduced are by natural reasons less useful.  

You really have your plate full, and you are saving quite a few cats' lives. It is admirable.

I see that your time is limited, but the small kittens really do need supplementing. Kittens with moms do not usually take a bottle, but you can certainly try. Otherwise it's tummy down, head up, syringe in the side of the mouth, squeeze a couple of drops, let the kitten swallow and breathe, and go again.

Since they are about 2.5 weeks old, they may begin sucking the syringe once they realize what's in it, and may easily transition to a bottle. A 1-2 mL syringe works best.

Some Walmarts carry goat's milk, and my pet store stocks it fresh frozen. Otherwise KMR is fine.

Mix the raw egg yolk in with the cat's wet food. Also, have you tried Gerber turkey or chicken baby food with the mom who is not eating right now? If you warm it a little it smells very tempting to ailing cats.

Keep us updated. Many blessings to you!

I see you have already been given great advice!

You certainly do have a full house!

I've so been there plenty of times myself, until I reached a point of ready to jump off a bridge, I had no time to eat, sleep, it was crazy! 

I have a cat rescue group and am also the medical go-to, so my cat room was filled with moms and kittens, calici mom/kits, 2 sick adults and last but not least......27 4 and 5 week olds from a hoarder, 2/3 of which had calici!! Yeah, that was my breaking point!

I realized my limitations, regardless of how capable I am, and will never do that to myself again!

Anyway, the bottle wont happen, as long as they are nursing from mom, they hate it!

Using a small 1.0 or 3.0 syringe is best, as it allows the best control over how much is put in their mouths.

Not down throat, in to the cheek area, a couple drops at a time.

Mom is going to look emaciated for some time, not only do they get sucked up looking after having a full sized litter, but she is feeding so many, it's highly unlikely that they will all continue to do so well. The bigger they get the more they take from her, so feed feed feed, all the wet fluidy canned foods and water, along with a dish or two a day of kmr, chicken broth diluted, as much as she will take.

The kittens need to gain at the very least, 6 grams a day, minimum.

Otherwise they will head downhill, slowly but surely, and it's nearly impossible to turn them around once it starts, since it took a while of them not getting quite enough every day to start the decline.

I advise rotating them. This just might get you off the hook with supplementing, but take care of moms nipples, they are going to have issues soon due to being overworked, and if she shuts down you will REALLY have your hands full!

Utter cream is fab.

Rotation box groups with the 4-5 biggest and the other group the smallest.

The one in the smallest group who is the largest you can switch off which group that one is in, as you should really only count on 4 good milk filled nipples to feed the herd each time.

You can even rotate both sets like this, if mom is good with it that is, take both groups away for an hour after both have nursed for 2 hours each, in other words mom will nurse for 4 hours total, and given an hour break then start all over again, so she can rebuild her supply.

Sub-q's sure can't hurt, but can hurt if it stresses her out.

If she takes it well and very calmly then great.

Be sure to keep them flea free.

Well, the good thing is that it's not any one kitten that is consistently losing weight. I did syringe feed a couple of them last  night, but they all really fought the syringe. I keep their room heated to 80 degrees and put them on a pet safe heating pad when I'm swapping kittens around. They all have their eyes open and are very active. How much and how often would you suggest I supplement feed them?

The other cat, Angel, is in the process of weaning her kittens. They're actually over 8 weeks old, but she's being fostered by someone else and she stays in the same room with her kittens. She had an appointment to be spayed last week, but the vet felt her weight was too low. I only have her temporarily as her foster mom is out of town, and she didn't feel like her teenage sons would be up to the task of giving her medication, but they are taking care of her little ones, so she's getting a bit of a break from them. I've been offering the dry food she normally eats, as well as various kinds of wet foods, I did try the Gerber chicken baby food last night and she did not go for that either. She had blood drawn on Friday, so I'm waiting to hear back from the vet on whether she has any underlying medical issues causing the poor body condition. I also gave her fluids last night and gave her a syringe of Hill's a/d prescription diet. For anyone who doesn't know, it's a critical care canned food you can only buy from a vet. It can be used for either cats or dogs, and it's high calorie and most animals go crazy for it. It's a very smooth pate, so if you add a bit of water it works great for syringe feeding. I'm really not a fan of Hill's foods in general, but this stuff has saved many a cat/kitten in our care. After I gave her fluids this morning, she did actually eat a bit of canned food on her own, so hopefully she's starting to feel better, but I will continue to syringe feed her to make sure she gets some calories into  her.

These are the babies, there are four tabbies, 3 black, and 2 cream.

I had suggested in my Post #5 that you give 10 mL's apiece (based on the lowest weight runt that you mentioned) to the kittens every four hours. Catwoman's advice to rotate the kittens 5 on/4 off for an hour, then 4 on/5 off for an hour, then give mom an hour break is also a choice. What generally happens with syringe feeding is they will stop fighting it when it becomes a regular event.

I'm glad to hear the other kitty did eat a bit on her own, and we are familiar with the Hill's a/d prescription. I'm hoping this cat is just rundown and has no further underlying medical condition, but it's good she's being tested. Maybe she is turning the corner now.

Darling babies!

One in particular I'd watch, the kitten in the upper left corner wasn't moving around, those loner quiet types are always a red flag to me.

Could have been sleeping but not when there are active explorers there are.

Actually hard to tell but looked like there might have been 2 in that area not active.

Super darn cute! Little roly poly trying to get his chunky butt flipped back over )

gmm80 said:

 
The other cat, Angel, is in the process of weaning her kittens. They're actually over 8 weeks old, but she's being fostered by someone else and she stays in the same room with her kittens. She had an appointment to be spayed last week, but the vet felt her weight was too low. I only have her temporarily as her foster mom is out of town, and she didn't feel like her teenage sons would be up to the task of giving her medication, but they are taking care of her little ones, so she's getting a bit of a break from them. I've been offering the dry food she normally eats, as well as various kinds of wet foods, I did try the Gerber chicken baby food last night and she did not go for that either. She had blood drawn on Friday, so I'm waiting to hear back from the vet on whether she has any underlying medical issues causing the poor body condition. I also gave her fluids last night and gave her a syringe of Hill's a/d prescription diet. For anyone who doesn't know, it's a critical care canned food you can only buy from a vet. It can be used for either cats or dogs, and it's high calorie and most animals go crazy for it. It's a very smooth pate, so if you add a bit of water it works great for syringe feeding. I'm really not a fan of Hill's foods in general, but this stuff has saved many a cat/kitten in our care. After I gave her fluids this morning, she did actually eat a bit of canned food on her own, so hopefully she's starting to feel better, but I will continue to syringe feed her to make sure she gets some calories into  her.

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The extra nourishemnts advices here are essentially the same as you got for the 9 momma.  although The extra calcium doesnt be as heavy perhaps  (oops, Im not sure I said clear cut the 9 mom, mus thave not only a good overall nourishing, but also, extra good calcium intake - in commercial supplment or in natural foods.)

So for example, the advice of raw egg yolk and or goat milk or KMR, applies here too...

Sorry @sarthur2   I completely missed that in your previous post.  I don't think 10ml will be possible. I'm lucky if I can get 2ml into each of them. After 2ml or so, they just refuse to swallow any more of the formula, they just let it run out of their mouths. Everyone gained weight at tonight's weigh-in, some not as much as I would like, but it's a start, better than losing weight.  They are 18 days old today. Looking at the previous foster's weight chart, everyone gained at least a little weight every day up until day 15. I know the average weight we would like to see is around 12 ounces at 3 weeks, but I don't think it's reasonable to expect them all to hit that mark, as some are just going to be smaller than others no matter what. the smallest kitten is just smaller overall, his head and even his feet are smaller.

@catwoman707  - is there a specific udder cream that is safe for the kittens to ingest?

Yes, Bag Balm utter cream is easy to find and safe.

Works beautifully too.

I know there is no way the kittens will reach the goal weight. I used it to illustrate how behind the runts are is all. They should be eating way more than 2 mL's per feeding, but that's better than nothing!

It struck me tonigh, some nice vitamine preparate as NutriCal or similiar, may also be useful, for both mommas mentioned.

And once again, the 9momma must have extra calcium, commercial calcium source, or lotsa of naturals...

Normal, healthy mommas seldom needs extra calcium, but here the margins are thinly streched...   Although, in the SubQ fluid, Ringers,  there is some calcium salts added,, so its a big plus.  But Im not sure its enough as additional calcium source.

The vet decided to put the cat that is not nursing on a feeding tube. She has some liver issues and is not eating very much willingly. Hoping some weight gain will improve her health. And I had Athena and the nine kittens to the vet yesterday for a quick check. She said they all have nice round tummies and look really healthy. I also had my order of Miracle Nipples arrive yesterday and they are working amazingly well. Almost all the kittens will nurse on the syringe using the Miracle Nipple, and about half will actually take the bottle. I just ordered 10 more to have on hand for our other fosters. Great product, so much better than the nipples that come with nursing bottles.

I have been giving both adult cats NutriCal, though they won't willingly take it. I  have to syringe feed it to them. I've never found a single cat or kitten that likes the taste of that stuff, no matter how palatable it claims to be. I had three different kinds of dry food available for Athena, the nursing mom and I was offering her KMR, Blue Buffalo canned kitten food, and Hill's a/d canned food. She really didn't have a lot of interest in any of it. The vet said to try Iams or Kitten Chow, neither are foods I would normally purchase, but I was at the store and they had small bags of the dry Iams and the canned kitten food.  To my surprise she gobbled up the canned food. So, not the best quality food, but for the moment, any food at all is better than no food.

It sounds like everything is under control for now. Glad the Miracle Nipples are a hit with the kittens!