Continue holding spayed or release?

kittychick · Sep 18, 2015

We trapped another of the many ferals (we're finally making a dent after 2 years!) in our neighborhood Wednesday am - and it's a girl! We've got a system down with the females - release them into a large dog crate with a cat carrier inside, litterbox, food (hard/soft/mackerel) and water, plus we cover the whole thing with two sheets so they can't see outside.

Always worked like a dream in the past - - but this poor girl. 2 yrs old. Totally feral. Trying to decide how long we hold her. She went right into the cat carrier (they all do - it's cave-like and filled with towels) Thursday morning after picking her up. Sometimes they don't eat (never know about drinking) that first afternoon/evening - - - but it's now almost noon on Friday and this one hasn't even touched the warmed up mackerel I pushed over right in front of the door of the carrier. Didn't appear to touch a thing overnight, which is a first. Obviously at some point soon I need to worry about dehydration.

She wasn't in heat or pregnant, so it was a routine spay. We like to keep them in for a minimum of 48 - prefer 72 - hours after we get them back here, but I'm starting to worry about her hydration, etc. Thoughts on whether it's best to early release if she doesn't eat soon - - or do we tough it out till tomorrow morning? (obviously if she starts eating we'll let it go a little longer). Our weather here is supposed to be upper 60s at night/high70s/low 80s during day - -scattered showers. So weather isn't really an issue if we release her now.

I like to give them as much time to heal as possible - but for the first time in all we've done - wondering if I'm doing more harm then good.

Thoughts?

Thanks!

StefanZ · Sep 18, 2015

kittychick said:
We trapped another of the many ferals (we're finally making a dent after 2 years!) in our neighborhood Wednesday am - and it's a girl! We've got a system down with the females - release them into a large dog crate with a cat carrier inside, litterbox, food (hard/soft/mackerel) and water, plus we cover the whole thing with two sheets so they can't see outside.

Always worked like a dream in the past - - but this poor girl. 2 yrs old. Totally feral. Trying to decide how long we hold her. She went right into the cat carrier (they all do - it's cave-like and filled with towels) Thursday morning after picking her up. Sometimes they don't eat (never know about drinking) that first afternoon/evening - - - but it's now almost noon on Friday and this one hasn't even touched the warmed up mackerel I pushed over right in front of the door of the carrier. Didn't appear to touch a thing overnight, which is a first. Obviously at some point soon I need to worry about dehydration.

She wasn't in heat or pregnant, so it was a routine spay. We like to keep them in for a minimum of 48 - prefer 72 - hours after we get them back here, but I'm starting to worry about her hydration, etc. Thoughts on whether it's best to early release if she doesn't eat soon - - or do we tough it out till tomorrow morning? (obviously if she starts eating we'll let it go a little longer). Our weather here is supposed to be upper 60s at night/high70s/low 80s during day - -scattered showers. So weather isn't really an issue if we release her now.

I like to give them as much time to heal as possible - but for the first time in all we've done - wondering if I'm doing more harm then good.

Thoughts?

Thanks!

Yes, that is a dilemma. Is she sick and MUST stay longer, or is she so stressed its better to let her out?

Anyways, I have asked experienced rescuers how soon you can let loose a healthy feral after spaying. They agreed 24 hours is enough, if you cant keep longer. There may be kittens waiting. Or you just dont have room enough, the caretaker willing to help, but not really dedicated rescuer. Or other needy reason. So, not optimale by far, but if you must so you must.

Feraleas as you know, do have excellent healing meat, and immune system well above average - if they dont have they would perish long ago...

Hope my answer help you some..

ps. I see you have managed it excellently and ingeniously so far far! A real modell organizing of things!

msaimee · Sep 18, 2015

Do you have a mobile vet in your area, and if so, would you be able to afford to have one come out and look at the cat? Would they give you a price break since it's a feral? Some cats have medical problems immediately following a spay. The female feral I trapped and spayed a few years ago had a bad reaction to the anesthesia and had temporary kidney and liver damage, then got an infection. She was lethargic, had a fever, and wasn't eating. So it does happen. Cats can also become reclusive and stop eating when they're experiencing extreme stress, and it's also not unusual for a cat to lose her appetite for 24 hours after a spay, especially if she was given a long lasting pain killer. The entire experience is very difficult for a female feral--much more so than for a male neuter (though it is necessary). This is a tough judgment call to make. If you release her and leave food out for her where you used to, do you think she will hang around and start eating again? If need be, do you think you could re-trap her again? Feral cats can go at least a few days without eating, they don't experience the issues that domestic cats have when they're suddenly deprived of food because they're used to going without food when they have to, so she should be okay if you decide to wait a while longer.

kittychick · Sep 18, 2015

She wasn't pregnant, nursing or in heat. She's shouted on the towels in the career, so I get a peek at the towels where she laid - no excess blood or leakage. I actually went out an maneuvers a tiny plate w warm mackerel, chicken baby food & dry food just into the entry of the cat carrier she's hunkered in. I may give her overnight, although hubby wants to release this evening. Talked to humane org that did her - they debated - one thought we should release her this evening, another thought wait till morning. Dehydration a my big worry----and though she's definitely in the same gene pool of grey kitties we've been seeing & trapping - she's definitely new. So she may not come back even if healthy for me to monitor.

Anyway- Her pain meds would have worn off by last night, so sure she's miserable - I've just never had one refuse to nibble by this point!( Most even use the box by now) we don't have a mobile vet in our area (wish we did!) and I'd hate to put her through stress of going to another place unless I'm positive something's going on besides terror

So what's the vote ---let her out tonight, or one more 12 hours of undisturbed healing?

kittychick · Sep 18, 2015

*she's shouted on the towels in the career was supposed to be "she's shifted on the towels in the carrier".....darn spell check!

StefanZ · Sep 18, 2015

kittychick said:
She wasn't pregnant, nursing or in heat. She's shouted on the towels in the career, so I get a peek at the towels where she laid - no excess blood or leakage. I actually went out an maneuvers a tiny plate w warm mackerel, chicken baby food & dry food just into the entry of the cat carrier she's hunkered in. I may give her overnight, although hubby wants to release this evening. Talked to humane org that did her - they debated - one thought we should release her this evening, another thought wait till morning. Dehydration a my big worry----and though she's definitely in the same gene pool of grey kitties we've been seeing & trapping - she's definitely new. So she may not come back even if healthy for me to monitor.

Anyway- Her pain meds would have worn off by last night, so sure she's miserable - I've just never had one refuse to nibble by this point!( Most even use the box by now) we don't have a mobile vet in our area (wish we did!) and I'd hate to put her through stress of going to another place unless I'm positive something's going on besides terror

So what's the vote ---let her out tonight, or one more 12 hours of undisturbed healing?

I think you must decide yourself, being there. Or let God decide, use a coin during suitable prayers. I do so sometimes in difficult decision situations.

nansiludie · Sep 18, 2015

I would keep her in and keep watch. If she is so sick to not want to eat delicious goodies placed before her, why would she go off to catch her own meal? I do think something may be wrong here. Is she making a fuss in her crate, hissing? Or just quietly lying down? Try putting in a piece of raw, uncooked chicken and see if she'll take to it. Or plain canned tuna in water. I've not seen too many cats refuse either of those.

catwoman707 · Sep 18, 2015

The reason for her not eating is because she is as you said, totally feral.

This is very typical behavior when trapped, doesn't surprise me one bit, nor would it concern me, at least not anymore since I have seen the same thing time after time with very feral cats.

It takes 3 days until the feral decides they have held out long enough, and will eat while in custody.

So you can either turn her loose back outside, but when you do, before releasing her be sure she sees you have food and water set outside, she will take off and if there are no other resources for her to go for food, she will slip back around later on or tmrw.

Or, you can keep her until after that 3rd day when she finally does eat, then turn her loose.

kittychick · Sep 18, 2015

Funny - all the feral we've done & we've never had one literally drink or eat nothing for this long! We'll give her till morning - if nothing, do think we'll release then. No water is what really concerns me. At least there appears to be a clean incision site. I know she's terrified and in pain - but I've always had them eat by day #2?!??

nansiludie · Sep 18, 2015

kittychick said:
Funny - all the feral we've done & we've never had one literally drink or eat nothing for this long! We'll give her till morning - if nothing, do think we'll release then. No water is what really concerns me. At least there appears to be a clean incision site. I know she's terrified and in pain - but I've always had them eat by day #2?!??

I have had them all but one come home starved and eat up every crumb. That one was not feral and she had a rough spay. Ended up carefully syringe feeding her. I would suggest calling the Vet again if she doesn't eat by tomorrow. Something might be wrong. Is she making any fuss in her crate or none at all? Most of mine would not eat in my presence but when I would return the food would be gone. Every so often, I'd get one that didn't care and would just chow down. Did you try any of the food ideas I listed?

catwoman707 · Sep 18, 2015

The ONLY ferals that have eaten were not really ferals. Semi-feral or formerly owned cats will eat, not in your presence but they will when you're not around.

True ferals never have for me, not one. Always takes until day 3 and then it's like they realize fear or not, they're eating!

catwoman707 · Sep 18, 2015

kittychick said:
Funny - all the feral we've done & we've never had one literally drink or eat nothing for this long! We'll give her till morning - if nothing, do think we'll release then. No water is what really concerns me. At least there appears to be a clean incision site. I know she's terrified and in pain - but I've always had them eat by day #2?!??

By the way, tmrw is day 3, bet she eats.

Might as well hold on to her at this point until she eats, she will tmrw or during the night

msaimee · Sep 19, 2015

It also depends on the other behaviors she's exhibiting besides not eating. Most ferals will go through periods of loud yowling, panic, and clawing/climbing to get out of their confinement at different intervals during the day/night (especially at night). If this is the case, then you should let her go and continue to leave out food and water for her as you've presumably done in the past. She may stay away for a few days, but will return if you're her only food source. If she's not moving around at all by now, she may have a fever and infection from the spay or other complication. This has happened to one of my spayed ferals following her surgery. I suggest you remove part of the cover you have over the cage and try to observe her for a while before making a decision.

kittychick · Sep 20, 2015

She was moving around but only with the cat carrier. No leakage or blood on the towels. We gave it 2/ 3/4 days (plus the day she she was at clinic after surgery) & let her out last night . (We've done ove 30 Tnrs & this was first not even touching water). she actually came back hours later to eat, so think she's better out then in! We normally hold females 72 or 96 just to really let them heal....but she was so terrified......eyes bright, fur good, but seemed truly feral panic. Since she actually came back for food, obviously she's hungry and ambulatory & looks good. Hopefully the right decision!

msaimee · Sep 20, 2015

This was very obviously the right decision. Sounds like she was in a true panic. It's great that she came back to eat, and that she has an appetite and is moving around again. You did a great job. she is very lucky to have you for a caregiver.

nansiludie · Sep 20, 2015

I'm very glad she came around to eat.

kittychick · Sep 20, 2015

Thanks SO much @msaimee and @ nansiludie.....it's so gutwrenching every time! Check out my newest post & tell me if I'm crazy & should just turn this down. We've recently lost (euthanized) 2 older cats in 4 months ( 1 just a week ago), just found a home for a foster we took in before we knew Aly was dying, and someone wants wish to try a socialize a feral kitten between now & thanksgiving. Plus my workload his ramped up considerably. I'm not sure I have the time (or heart) I normally do for the extensive socialization. On top of holidays & family. What do I tell her? Argh....I know I'm off topic ;@(

mani · Sep 20, 2015

kittychick said:
Thanks SO much @msaimee and @ nansiludie.....it's so gutwrenching every time! Check out my newest post & tell me if I'm crazy & should just turn this down. We've recently lost (euthanized) 2 older cats in 4 months ( 1 just a week ago), just found a home for a foster we took in before we knew Aly was dying, and someone wants wish to try a socialize a feral kitten between now & thanksgiving. Plus my workload his ramped up considerably. I'm not sure I have the time (or heart) I normally do for the extensive socialization. On top of holidays & family. What do I tell her? Argh....I know I'm off topic ;@(

You're not off-topic @kittychick - it's your thread!

Here's the other thread for those who would like to follow what's going on: http://www.thecatsite.com/t/306306/too-old-to-socialize

kittychick · Sep 20, 2015

Saw Colby again tonight! But ARGH!!!! a new one appeared --- looks YOUNG- maybe 4 months - VERY skinny. Trapping begins anew....

catwoman707 · Sep 20, 2015

Never ending battle for sure!! Frustrating I know!

Continue holding spayed or release?

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