Torbie Siamese, Ragdoll, or something else?

rorygirl

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Hello, 

I have researched and read a lot of information online, and I'm still confused about what breeds my mixed cat is!  I adopted Rory from the shelter in January 2015, and the vet said she was a year old.  Her appearance has changed drastically since then.  The first picture (with the cage background) was taken at the shelter.  She was mostly cream colored with a darker tail and ears, and a red nose.  She has blue eyes, which are crossed.  The shelter had her listed as a Siamese mix.  The second picture was taken about 2 months later and you can see her crossed eyes.  The last picture was recently, and it's clear she has some calico and tabby, but I'm not as sure about the Siamese part.  She has never had traditional points; her feet are all white.  Can a Siamese mixed breed have white legs?  Could she be a ragdoll mix?  But can ragdolls have short hair, or crossed eyes? Some other traits that might help:

Physical Traits:

[if !supportLists]·          [endif]Calico-tabby (torbie), with white markings. (the red is coming in slowly on her back, making her look sort of pink right now)

[if !supportLists]·          [endif]Not quite pointed as she has no colors on her legs (except for a red tabby patch on one front elbow).  Does have points on her nose, ears, and tail.

[if !supportLists]·          [endif]The fur on her back has grown considerably darker over 8 months.

[if !supportLists]·          [endif]Short hair and extremely soft.  Sheds like crazy!

[if !supportLists]·          [endif]Pink paw pads

[if !supportLists]·          [endif]Eyes are blue and crossed.  She has poor vision and can’t see anything more than about 5 feet away.

Temperament:

[if !supportLists]·          [endif]Extremely skittish, scared of everything.  Probably related to her poor eyesight and whatever happened to her before the shelter.  She’s getting     better, slowly.

[if !supportLists]·          [endif]Extremely devoted to me; she seems to think I’m her actual mother.  Was obviously taken from her mother too early.

[if !supportLists]·          [endif]Very cuddly

[if !supportLists]·          [endif]Very talkative

[if !supportLists]·          [endif]Very playful.  Adores toys, and will even fetch.

[if !supportLists]·          [endif]Hates to be alone (meaning without me, since she doesn’t like anyone else).

[if !supportLists]·          [endif]She won’t struggle when picked up, though she doesn’t like it (so maybe some ragdoll)?

[if !supportLists]·          [endif]Non-aggressive

          Any suggestions would be helpful! Thanks!

co



 

newmamaof3

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Dilute calico, Siamese, tabby mix maybe? Totally guessing! I'm not an expert at all! But she is interesting to look at and very unique!
 

StefanZ

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With a mix, its per defintion you can get different combinations, thus even a shorthaired ragdollish...  So whatever she is, you can surely call her for a siamese mix...

The first real question,  exactly what color does she has in the darkest places, ie on the ears and the tail.  Its black, brown / chokolade, or else?   I see its dark, but Im not sure she is black -seal.

Second.  Its sure she has  and white in her, mitted so to speak.  Aside of some of the radolls, there are also the old siamese alike snowshoe with this trait.  

Third, is the siamese ancestry must be fairly recent, as the trait of crossed eyes is common, perhaps even typical for modern siameses, but not for points as such...

Fourth, the darkening of the body is coming up fairly quickly, she is still under 2 years.  And  IF she isnt  black /seal on the ears - its much and early darkening.  The eyes, although blue, are not very blue - although we KNOW the siamese ancestry is recent, perhaps a granddad.

Im wondering a little, if the other of the point genes, may  be of the burmanese type.   Such a mixed point does darkens up quickly, and the eyes are barely bluish.

That combination, one point gene of siamese type, the other a burmanese, is not the common, but not unique either, you can see it sometimes once you learned it may happen...

Explains quite a few dark atypical points.
 

StefanZ

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ps.  I think I understand now the coloration of the body, why there are so many white blotches...

I think its some combination of red and creme...   As simply as that...

If so, Im not sure we shall call her for tabby / lynx.  ALL reds are tabbies, so we usually dont even mention it, unless its very apparent trait on the cat.

Although the name of the point-type, we get by the color on ears /tail, the darkest parts of the body, so its usually not the color of the body. Easy to miss it, It happens even for me sometimes.
 

StefanZ

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Hello, 

I have researched and read a lot of information online, and I'm still confused about what breeds my mixed cat is!  I adopted Rory from the shelter in January 2015, and the vet said she was a year old.  Her appearance has changed drastically since then.  The first picture (with the cage background) was taken at the shelter.  She was mostly cream colored with a darker tail and ears, and a red nose.  She has blue eyes, which are crossed.  The shelter had her listed as a Siamese mix.  The second picture was taken about 2 months later and you can see her crossed eyes.  The last picture was recently, and it's clear she has some calico and tabby, but I'm not as sure about the Siamese part.  She has never had traditional points; her feet are all white.  Can a Siamese mixed breed have white legs?  Could she be a ragdoll mix?  But can ragdolls have short hair, or crossed eyes? Some other traits that might help:

Physical Traits:

[if !supportLists]·         [endif]Calico-tabby (torbie), with white markings. (the red is coming in slowly on her back, making her look sort of pink right now)

[if !supportLists]·         [endif]Not quite pointed as she has no colors on her legs (except for a red tabby patch on one front elbow).  Does have points on her nose, ears, and tail.

[if !supportLists]·         [endif]The fur on her back has grown considerably darker over 8 months.

[if !supportLists]·         [endif]Short hair and extremely soft.  Sheds like crazy!

[if !supportLists]·         [endif]Pink paw pads

[if !supportLists]·         [endif]Eyes are blue and crossed.  She has poor vision and can’t see anything more than about 5 feet away.

Temperament:

[if !supportLists]·         [endif]Extremely skittish, scared of everything.  Probably related to her poor eyesight and whatever happened to her before the shelter.  She’s getting     better, slowly.

[if !supportLists]·         [endif]Extremely devoted to me; she seems to think I’m her actual mother.  Was obviously taken from her mother too early.

[if !supportLists]·         [endif]Very cuddly

[if !supportLists]·         [endif]Very talkative

[if !supportLists]·         [endif]Very playful.  Adores toys, and will even fetch.

[if !supportLists]·         [endif]Hates to be alone (meaning without me, since she doesn’t like anyone else).

[if !supportLists]·         [endif]She won’t struggle when picked up, though she doesn’t like it (so maybe some ragdoll)?

[if !supportLists]·         [endif]Non-aggressive

          Any suggestions would be helpful! Thanks!

co
Re her bahavior.   Im not sure her behavior as such has much to do with her genetics.  I think its most of it, her background in a shelter, my guess she is a fostered ex semif-ferale.

This would explain nicely she is skittish, and likes / loves only you...

Yes, perhaps even such a trait as she doenst like to be carried....   Which is common for many shy cats.

If it bothers you she needs to have your company, consider perhaps to get her a cat pal.   If they gets friends, much would be won.   She will still have you as her mommy.

This
 
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rorygirl

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Thanks for all your answers!  I appreciate your thoughts. 

In January (time of the first pic) the vet thought she was right at 12 months old, so she's now about 20 months in the last pic.  That is a lot of darkening in a short time!  At first I thought I was imagining it as I've never had a cat that darkened like this.  I've had basic tabbies and one tuxedo in my life, so this is a new thing for me!

Her darkest areas are dark gray and sometimes dark taupe brown (not chocolate), not black.  Each individual hair is striped, so it may be light at the root, with a band of dark, then a band of light, then a band of dark etc. The lighter areas on her back are currently pink/cream, on their way to red.  I think she will eventually be red in those sections like a calico.  She has one very red band on her tail, which of course started out darker, so I think that's the eventual end goal of the lighter patches on her back.  You can see the reddish tail band in the first picture, but it's much more red than that now.  The white on her belly and legs is a very pure white, different than the light patches on her back.  In the last picture, you can see her face has a gray section across her right eye, next to a pure white section, and that creamy pink-red across her nose and left eye.

You're right that her eyes are not super blue, just blue-ish.  From what you said, Burmese seems likely, and I don't know much about that breed.  I'll have to look that up, thank you. 

I've been trying to apply the words "semi-feral" to her personality and it just doesn't fit.  She has shown zero hunting skills, no fixation on food, no independence whatsoever.  She is extremely reliant on humans.  My little tuxedo girl who died in January was a stray that had lived on her own for a while, and she was fiercely independent and very food-driven.  I'd call her semi-feral, but not Rory. If I were to stop feeding Rory, she'd just fall over and die.  She has no survival skills.

She showed no signs of physical abuse when I saw her at the shelter, and she'd only been there a day.  She was underweight but not drastically so.  She couldn't have been on her own for long.  I live in a college town, and I think it's likely some irresponsible college kid got her as a kitten because she was pretty, then neglected her or scared her for fun (and since she can't see well, it doesn't take much to scare her), until eventually she just lived every day in terror.  When I got her, she didn't know what toys were, or that people could pet her.  I've worked very hard with her on building trust and a solid relationship.  It's taken 8 months but she no longer runs away when I enter the room. She lets me walk right up to her now without running to hide, as long as I move slowly.  As soon as I get in bed, she curls up in my arms.  She's even been friendly with a few visitors to the house, which surprised the heck out of me!    She's improved drastically over 8 months, but still has some way to go. I've thought of getting her a cat friend, but not sure she's ready for that yet.  

In the end it doesn't really matter what she is and it's just curiosity for me.  I used to call my old dog a Miscellaneous (he was a SharPei/Golden Retriever mix), and I guess Rory is a Miscellaneous too.  She has a safe and happy forever home, and that is the important thing!  
 

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Oh, she's a pretty girl! I'm not surprised she darkened so much in just a few months. That's about the age Robin darkened drastically. He's half Snowshoe, half Ragdoll.

Your cats personality does remind me of Robin, with the exception of being skitterish. And I notice your cat seems actually quite big boned, rather big for a female. Can I ask how much she weighs?

She may have been semi feral as Robin was. That is, cats were fed by people and born in a house but soon released. Either way, she's beautiful!! So wonderful she found her fur ever home so quickly as well!
 
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rorygirl

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Thanks! She was 7lbs when I got her, which was too small for her frame.  She looked fine but felt bony. I put her on a mix of kitten and adult food and she gained weight pretty rapidly.  She hasn't been back to the vet since her last spay surgery check in February, but she's probably around 11 lbs now.  I've been thinking I should start restricting her food as she is probably too chubby now!  My last 2 cats were a 15 lb giant male and a 9 lb petite girl, so now I have no idea what an average cat should look like anymore!

I had no idea some cats darkened over time until her.  She's so different from any other cat I've ever had!  

Your Robin is beautiful!
 

misterwhiskers

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Wow. She looked bigger than 11 pounds but that's pictures for ya. Not a breed expert, but growing up, we had a Siamese who was 6 pounds soaking wet, so if your cat has Siamese in her, I wouldn't be surprised.

Yes, Robin has darkened but he's not Seal by any means. He started out white almost. My first vacation away from him, his fur darkened by about 2 shades in a week. I almost didn't recognize him, but it was winter and they say Siamese darken in the winter.

Her coloring is really stunning, but more than that, she looks gloriously content in your pictures!!
 
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rorygirl

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Hm, I wonder, does stress increase the darkening rate?  Rory started darkening faster after I had to start travelling a little for my job, and yours darkened when you left.  Maybe it's related?  Or maybe just coincidence!  The winter thing is interesting.  We're in Texas so it never really gets all that cold here.

She may look big in the pics but she's not huge.  She's content in the pics because when she's feeling insecure she hides inside a chair and I can't photograph her!  She ripped a hole in the bottom of an overstuffed armchair and sleeps inside it.  She climbs up pretty high inside - when you sit on the chair you can feel her move behind your shoulders.  She's weird. 

She took food from my hand for the first time tonight.  Progress!

She's loudly telling me it's time to go to bed so I can pet her.  She's very insistent about bedtime!  She's only really comfortable with me when I'm lying down.  Somehow I'm less scary that way. 
 

misterwhiskers

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Funny!! Robin meows til I go to bed, too! Then he may or may not sleep with me. Lol.
 

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Hi Everyone! I'm new to the site and really enjoying it. I have a Siamese/Rag doll mix. She's 4 years old and is a mixture of black, brown, cream and white. At her last vet check she was 11 lb. Her name is Chiquitita like the song title. A spanish friend told me it means 'little one', an endearment for a female. Well, she was  little when I adopted her at 3 months old. I will take pictures of her and post some soon. I love hearing about everyone's Siamese mix cats and seeing their pictures. I'd be interested in comparing our cats' behaviors too.
 

StefanZ

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Hi Everyone! I'm new to the site and really enjoying it. I have a Siamese/Rag doll mix. She's 4 years old and is a mixture of black, brown, cream and white. At her last vet check she was 11 lb. Her name is Chiquitita like the song title. A spanish friend told me it means 'little one', an endearment for a female. Well, she was  little when I adopted her at 3 months old. I will take pictures of her and post some soon. I love hearing about everyone's Siamese mix cats and seeing their pictures. I'd be interested in comparing our cats' behaviors too.
Yeah, welcome with the pics!
 
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