I'm worried and frustrated

red top rescue · Sep 11, 2015

Yes, that's a fine dose. I use 125 mg. once a day on my adult cat but all she has is one eye that runs clear without it, so she doesn't have all the problems Pixie has now. Hopefully this will help Pixie. The llactoferrin is not easily soluble in water but dissolves easily in any form of oil. I use a little coconut oil for my cat's dose. She won't eat wet food so I give her the lactoferrin in the coconut oil with a dose of probiotics that come in wild salmon oil. She likes it.

nibblerandco · Sep 12, 2015

Pixies Ma said:
Pixie is horrible with the feet thing. Used to be only when i was in bed, but now it's anytime anywhere. I scruffed and hissed this morning cause i was soooo fed up, but she got even more aggressive, wich means she got nervous, wich means i felt bad.

It sounds like the scruff and hiss might have backfired then. She might also have got more aggressive because she interpreted your actions as playful. Kittens play VERY rough at times. They learn the physical limits by crossing them with each other. When they go too far the playmate squeaks and disengages. Have you tried doing this (high pitched distressed noise, pull back and walk away?). The problem is that she's not trying to harass or hurt you, she's trying to fill her need to tussle... Without another kitten (which you obviously can't get because she's sick) I don't know what to suggest. Maybe somebody who has more experience with singletons can help you out!

mservant · Sep 12, 2015

NibblerAndCo said:
It sounds like the scruff and hiss might have backfired then. She might also have got more aggressive because she interpreted your actions as playful. Kittens play VERY rough at times. They learn the physical limits by crossing them with each other. When they go too far the playmate squeaks and disengages. Have you tried doing this (high pitched distressed noise, pull back and walk away?). The problem is that she's not trying to harass or hurt you, she's trying to fill her need to tussle... Without another kitten (which you obviously can't get because she's sick) I don't know what to suggest. Maybe somebody who has more experience with singletons can help you out!

Well I have a singleton and my experience is that he is a pest.

He has no concept of humans and cats being different, and the humans in his life are his play-mates. If he wants attention or play time his humans 'are it'. Thankfully he is considerably quieter at 4 1/2 than he was as a youngster!

My experience is that you have to go with the flow to a large extent if you want a happy cat - their play - hunting instincts are natural and unless you want a bored and depressed cat they need to have oportunities to exhaust their drive to do this. The best approach to surviving it seems to be understanding the world from how they are likely to see it, observe their preferred times for playing and eating and the types of play they like, and if these do not suit you then slowly alter them. This needs consistency, patience, and objects that can replace you if you are one of their subjects of attack. If you can predict when an attack is going to happen then get in there first and instigate the play but with the preferred toy - wear the cat out and then hopefully you will have peace and queit when you want it. E.g. when you want to get to sleep. The play can take up to an hour several times a day with an energetic young cat. If you do get caught out and become prey then hold still, don't pull back or move as this will be misinterpreted. Eventually the cat will get bored and let go, then you can divert with a toy. If they are still hyper and attack you again you repeat, but if this happens several times over then one or other of you is better spending a few minutes in annother room until the cat settles.

Here are a couple of helpful articles which talk about how to do this, and also working out ways to try and get a good night's sleep. (I used to lay in bed and take a stack of toy mice / little toys to be with me that I could throw for Mouse to chase after so he would get tired out without chewing my feet to bits).

http://www.thecatsite.com/a/how-to-stop-playtime-aggression-in-cats

http://www.thecatsite.com/a/cats-and-night-crazies

pixies ma · Sep 12, 2015

NibblerAndCo said:
. Have you tried doing this (high pitched distressed noise, pull back and walk away?).

Oh yes. And i wasn't even acting. I screamed cause it hurt, and walked away cause i was fed up!
I have done the 'acting' before when she was smaller and didn't draw blood yet, but it did not register. I know i'm doing something wrong...it was probably all the times i let her do it when she was little cause it was fun for both of us back then. But now, she is a full blown tiger.

pixies ma · Sep 12, 2015

@MServant She doesn't bother me as much when i'm in bed now, cause i think i broke that when i put cream on my feet several days in a row. She didn't like the smell of my fancy St-Yves lotion.
And earlier, as i did dishes, i did exactly what you did; i got some of her toys and put them on the counter, ready for me to throw when she got interested in my feet.
I think i have already read the threads you copied for me, but i'll look again just in case.
I think she is a cat with a naturally rough temperament. She come from the slums...I can tell she wouldn't ba happy just staying inside and being lazy. This is why i'm disappointed i can't get her vaccinated right now cause i really wanted to leash train her before winter so i can take her on walks or just in the back yard everyday so she doesn't get bored.
She is sweet and i love her, but i can't change that in her, i think. So i'll try and respect that as much as possible and give her more play and excercice options. Outside seems perfect, with me and a harness.
I had a cat like her long ago. I let him go outside and he sometimes disappeared for days and come back all messed up. I wold have the vet patch him up and let him back out when he recovered cause he got unhappy inside, and i had 2 large dogs and another cat back then so she had plenty of companion. He used to wrestle with my Jazzy, my lab who just died. They played rough then they'd lick eachother and nap together.
That cat did not live long...My ex kept him when we broke up, but he had gastrointestinal problems and kept vomitting. The never figured out why and put him down. It was probably all the mice and birds he brought us everyday. He would puke feathers, it was awful. But he had a good life, albeit short.
I'll not go through that with Pixie though. I'll never let her out alone.

pixies ma · Sep 12, 2015

Red Top Rescue said:
Yes, that's a fine dose. I use 125 mg. once a day on my adult cat but all she has is one eye that runs clear without it, so she doesn't have all the problems Pixie has now. Hopefully this will help Pixie. The llactoferrin is not easily soluble in water but dissolves easily in any form of oil. I use a little coconut oil for my cat's dose. She won't eat wet food so I give her the lactoferrin in the coconut oil with a dose of probiotics that come in wild salmon oil. She likes it.

I could not find my new lacto thread when i came on earlier (and then my internet cut off..) but just found it here? It was moved? I had hoped it would get more visibility on it's own.
So yeah, i could not read your message earlier so i ended up giving her about 75mg, twice.
She eats it mixed with canned, which contains anywhere between 6% and 9% fat, depending on the flavor. Hopefully that's enough for her system to take it in.
She never noticed.
Not sure i feel at ease giving her 250mg daily, the dosage for an adult cat. If lysine can damage organs in kitten with adult doses, i fear lacto might be the same?
But i remember people saying they usually gave 250mg daily, split in two, for adults. So logically, Pixie should get half of that? I just wanted confirmation, as i don't want to mess things up with her.

red top rescue · Sep 12, 2015

Nothing wrong with starting her more slowly to be sure it is agreeing with her. Have you read about it? Do you know what it is and where it comes from?

Lactoferrin is a protein found in cow milk and human milk. Colostrum, the first milk produced after a baby is born, contains high levels of lactoferrin, about seven times the amount found in milk produced later on. Lactoferrin is also found in fluids in the eye, nose, respiratory tract, intestine, and elsewhere..

So it's natural, and this lactoferrin comes from cows. I think it works better than anything on these lingering upper respiratory problems. In most cases big changes have beenn seen in just the first week. The wheezing and snorting gradually gets less and suddenly you realize it is gone. Let's hope it works on your girl. It certainly can't hurt. I would try to get her to the 125 mg. twice a day over the next few days. f you gave her 75 mg. twice today, that's 150 already, so that's good.

I know with antibiotics like amoxicillin, the first dose is supposed to be double to get it right into the system strongly and then continue with the regular dosing every 12 hours. When I first used the lactoferrin on my cat with the runny eye, I was shocked -- I did the double dose the first day and then went to the normal dose and by day 3 her eye was not running and it had beeen running for over a year! It still doesn't run except when I get busy and forget to give her the lactoferrin and within two or three days of stopping it (like when I ran out last month) the eye starts running a little and in a few more days it is running a lot.

I just ordered more lactoferrin and some S. boulardii (for intestinal problems and diarrhea, I had two cats that had that for about 6 months after the URI. They dont seem to have it any more but I am afraid to stop using the S. boulardii. It's also a natural thing and doctors have used it against C. difficile when all the strong drugs have failed to eliminate it, and the S. boulardii wiped it out (thiis in humans). A lot of these cures are not well publicized because they are not drugs, they can't be patented, and companies can't make big money from them. At the moment they are considered natural supplements, which is good. They donnt have side effects like the antibiotics do and often they do a better job on specific problems.

I just got my newest Amazon order and DANG, they mixed up on one supplement, the Lactoferrin of course!! They sent me something called Lumbrokinase instead (never heaard of it) so I will be returning that Monday. Fortunately I didn't wait too long and I won't run out of the lactoferrin I have before i get more. You did give me an idea though. Next time Bear's eye is running because I've been lax with her lactoferrin, I will take a picture and then take pictures each day after just to be evidence.

red top rescue · Sep 12, 2015

Actually your new lactoferrin thread was moved because without being connected to all that was going on with Pixie before this stage, it wasn't that informative to everyone. I think everyone needs to read your whole story and what you have been through with Pixie, and hopefully this is th extra omething that helps her turn the corner to real health. Without the background, it would be lacking something and people don't all know how to go back to the first thread that told the story.

You can always find your threads, go to the very top right of the page, where your name and avatar are, and click on the blue arrow next to that. You can then choose from many things, like search ALL the threads you ever commented in,, or search for the threads that you started, etc. It may take time but you can always find them. I do that somtimes when I know I was talking with someone on a imilar subject awhile back and the info in the last thread would be useful to the person posting here, so I can give them a link to it.

This is an amazing site and although I've been here since December 2012, I am STILL learning what things I can do....usually when I can't figure something out, I post a note and someone comes back with an answer. Like OH, I had no idea I could do that! So now you know how to find all your posts. Nothing is lost. It's all here!

stewball · Sep 12, 2015

Pixies Ma said:
@MServant
She doesn't bother me as much when i'm in bed now, cause i think i broke that when i put cream on my feet several days in a row. She didn't like the smell of my fancy St-Yves lotion.

And earlier, as i did dishes, i did exactly what you did; i got some of her toys and put them on the counter, ready for me to throw when she got interested in my feet.

I think i have already read the threads you copied for me, but i'll look again just in case.

I think she is a cat with a naturally rough temperament. She come from the slums...I can tell she wouldn't ba happy just staying inside and being lazy. This is why i'm disappointed i can't get her vaccinated right now cause i really wanted to leash train her before winter so i can take her on walks or just in the back yard everyday so she doesn't get bored.

She is sweet and i love her, but i can't change that in her, i think. So i'll try and respect that as much as possible and give her more play and excercice options. Outside seems perfect, with me and a harness.

I had a cat like her long ago. I let him go outside and he sometimes disappeared for days and come back all messed up. I wold have the vet patch him up and let him back out when he recovered cause he got unhappy inside, and i had 2 large dogs and another cat back then so she had plenty of companion. He used to wrestle with my Jazzy, my lab who just died. They played rough then they'd lick eachother and nap together.

That cat did not live long...My ex kept him when we broke up, but he had gastrointestinal problems and kept vomitting. The never figured out why and put him down. It was probably all the mice and birds he brought us everyday. He would puke feathers, it was awful. But he had a good life, albeit short.

I'll not go through that with Pixie though. I'll never let her out alone.

My blighty is also from the slums but shows no interest in going out. Does Pixie?

stewball · Sep 12, 2015

@Red Top Rescue.
May I put my oar in with a suggestion?
Why don't you order two Lactoferrins so that when one finishes you start the next and at the same time order another one. That way you won't run out. Just the first order will be expensive unless you order it now. Just a thought.

mservant · Sep 13, 2015

@Pixies Ma Pixie is lucky to live with a human who is keen to understand her and offer her oportunities to do what she most wants as a cat. She is still young and full of energy, and even if she is not going out I belive she can be very happy indoors with you as long as she has lots of interesting things to hunt and keep her busy in her home territory. It does take lots of human play though, which is why I call Mouse a 'pest'.

Pixie can learn to play with you and not bite hard or launch in with all claws griping but it does take time so be patient with her. Mouse loves hands on play, but in order to get his humans to continue to do this he had to learn that we would stop doing what he wanted when he bit us (and he bit A LOT). He also had to learn that it was not OK to jump up and plater himself on to human's faces belly first - or at least not with anyone other than me! I do think some cats can be more prone to biting and aggressive play as they will learn this from their mother early on, and to some degree inherit some of their nature from their father, but the ongoing environment and interactions are also very imortant.

While she is young Pixie will have a higher play drive and find lots of things get her all excited and want to hunt - like your hands and feet. This settles down too though, and especially if you show her there are times you do not like her doing it and don't play or make her feel defensive when she does it. I love that you have found a way to deter her from your feet - with nice skin lotion,

and that she is getting the idea of toys diverting her when you are busy. This sounds like progress in your communicating together so hopefully you will see further changes soon. Seeing her well, or at least being able to relax a little about her health should help a lot too - cats are amazing at picking up on our stress levels and when we are stressed they get stressed too, and then they are more likely to be on high alert and feel more defensive - which can lead to more aggressive responses.

I look forward to hearing how Pixie progresses, and also how she does with the introduction of the lactoferin.

pixies ma · Sep 13, 2015

Stewball said:
My blighty is also from the slums but shows no interest in going out. Does Pixie?

Oh gods, yes. I smoke on my back balcony, so i go in and out several times a day. I put a baby barrier there but she can climb it easy. She lets me go out, but when i come back in, she runs for it. I usually stay with her there, and let her watch outside a bit. She also spends a lot of time on her cat tree by the window, looking outside. Sometimes she claws at the screen, scratches the glass, or bites the frame like she is desperate to go out.
Her mother and who i think is her father were sleeping on lawn chairs in the back yard earlier this week. Though i live on the second floor and she can't see that far down, i wonder if she might as smelled them down there...

stewball · Sep 13, 2015

You brought her up right? Fed her etc? She only knows your smell.
I put up mesh things on my balconies and all windows. She may not really want to go into the great outdoors.
The mesh on my window is sliding. I walked in one day and there they were, sitting outside on the windowsill watching the world go buy. I brought them in and closed the mesh. Next minute blightythe the naughty one, was opening it again. I put a piece of cardboard in between the two sliding bits and that's that. Gosh I had a fright. We're on the first floor.
Tell me more about you. My profile tells it all.
Hugs,
Judy.

pixies ma · Sep 13, 2015

Red Top Rescue said:
Nothing wrong with starting her more slowly to be sure it is agreeing with her. Have you read about it? Do you know what it is and where it comes from?

Lactoferrin is a protein found in cow milk and human milk. Colostrum, the first milk produced after a baby is born, contains high levels of lactoferrin, about seven times the amount found in milk produced later on. Lactoferrin is also found in fluids in the eye, nose, respiratory tract, intestine, and elsewhere..

So it's natural, and this lactoferrin comes from cows. I think it works better than anything on these lingering upper respiratory problems. In most cases big changes have beenn seen in just the first week. The wheezing and snorting gradually gets less and suddenly you realize it is gone. Let's hope it works on your girl. It certainly can't hurt. I would try to get her to the 125 mg. twice a day over the next few days. f you gave her 75 mg. twice today, that's 150 already, so that's good.

I know with antibiotics like amoxicillin, the first dose is supposed to be double to get it right into the system strongly and then continue with the regular dosing every 12 hours. When I first used the lactoferrin on my cat with the runny eye, I was shocked -- I did the double dose the first day and then went to the normal dose and by day 3 her eye was not running and it had beeen running for over a year! It still doesn't run except when I get busy and forget to give her the lactoferrin and within two or three days of stopping it (like when I ran out last month) the eye starts running a little and in a few more days it is running a lot.

I just ordered more lactoferrin and some S. boulardii (for intestinal problems and diarrhea, I had two cats that had that for about 6 months after the URI. They dont seem to have it any more but I am afraid to stop using the S. boulardii. It's also a natural thing and doctors have used it against C. difficile when all the strong drugs have failed to eliminate it, and the S. boulardii wiped it out (thiis in humans). A lot of these cures are not well publicized because they are not drugs, they can't be patented, and companies can't make big money from them. At the moment they are considered natural supplements, which is good. They donnt have side effects like the antibiotics do and often they do a better job on specific problems.

I just got my newest Amazon order and DANG, they mixed up on one supplement, the Lactoferrin of course!! They sent me something called Lumbrokinase instead (never heaard of it) so I will be returning that Monday. Fortunately I didn't wait too long and I won't run out of the lactoferrin I have before i get more. You did give me an idea though. Next time Bear's eye is running because I've been lax with her lactoferrin, I will take a picture and then take pictures each day after just to be evidence.

So, should i understand it can kind of replace the goodies she missed from her mama's milk?

I have read about it some, but my computer and connection are unreliable so often enough my reading is interrupted...Annoying.
The dosage recommended by vets is 40mg per kg. That's pretty much what i give her right now, but i have read here that some people give more, as a booster. I know it's natural and i should up her dosage in a couple days, but still i worry about consequences. When things have gone bad so often in the past, i tend to worry about messing everything up with the one wrong move or decision. She was so close to the edge so many times, i don't wanna go back there!

She is still congested....Seems like she's been having a flare-up withing her flare-up for the past 5-6 days. She sneezed a bit last night and today, which is good in her case. She eats and plays well, though yesterday she was keen on sleeping on my chest a lots. Not that i'm complaining...

Dang that Amazon mess up!

pixies ma · Sep 13, 2015

Stewball said:
You brought her up right? Fed her etc? She only knows your smell.
I put up mesh things on my balconies and all windows. She may not really want to go into the great outdoors.
The mesh on my window is sliding. I walked in one day and there they were, sitting outside on the windowsill watching the world go buy. I brought them in and closed the mesh. Next minute blightythe the naughty one, was opening it again. I put a piece of cardboard in between the two sliding bits and that's that. Gosh I had a fright. We're on the first floor.
Tell me more about you. My profile tells it all.
Hugs,
Judy.

Me? I'm a 42 yo spinster. I'm a loud introvert. I enjoy reading and long romantic walks with myself. I'm a caregiver in a hospital by day, and hermit by night. I have been taking Swing and\or Blues dance classes for almost 2 years now. I stopped over the summer cause of an unrelated shoulder injury, poorness, and Pixie needing care. I'm doing volunteer work now during friday night dances. I have banked enough hours to take a Swing class starting this week. I live in Montreal, Quebec, and my main language is French. I play a bit of ukulele, but i lack the discipline (or desire?) to practice. I mostly listen to music from the first half of the 20th century, but my main dudes are Otis Redding and Ray Lamontagne. I love love love Halloween. I'm more of a dog person and planned on getting another one next year, but Pixie needed me so it's all the same.

And yep, i brought her up when she was 5 weeks old. She has travelled from the yard up to my place several times before i officially adopted her. I brought her up to feed her whenever i found her alone, which kept happening. Now i know why...But yeah, i'm sure she would know where to go if i let her leave on her own. Back to the slums with her colony.

stewball · Sep 13, 2015

Pixies Ma said:
Me? I'm a 42 yo spinster. I'm a loud introvert. I enjoy reading and long romantic walks with myself. I'm a caregiver in a hospital by day, and hermit by night. I have been taking Swing and\or Blues dance classes for almost 2 years now. I stopped over the summer cause of an unrelated shoulder injury, poorness, and Pixie needing care. I'm doing volunteer work now during friday night dances. I have banked enough hours to take a Swing class starting this week. I live in Montreal, Quebec, and my main language is French. I play a bit of ukulele, but i lack the discipline (or desire?) to practice. I mostly listen to music from the first half of the 20th century, but my main dudes are Otis Redding and Ray Lamontagne. I love love love Halloween. I'm more of a dog person and planned on getting another one next year, but Pixie needed me so it's all the same.

And yep, i brought her up when she was 5 weeks old. She has travelled from the yard up to my place several times before i officially adopted her. I brought her up to feed her whenever i found her alone, which kept happening. Now i know why...But yeah, i'm sure she would know where to go if i let her leave on her own. Back to the slums with her colony.

I'll reply by PM. We don't want everybody reading our mail do we.

mservant · Sep 13, 2015

Pixies Ma said:
I'm a loud introvert. I enjoy reading and long romantic walks with myself. I'm a caregiver in a hospital by day, and hermit by night. .............

And yep, i brought her up when she was 5 weeks old. She has travelled from the yard up to my place several times before i officially adopted her. I brought her up to feed her whenever i found her alone, which kept happening. Now i know why...But yeah, i'm sure she would know where to go if i let her leave on her own. Back to the slums with her colony.

I love your description of how you pass your time!

You fit right in here on TCS.

Don't go thinking Pixie would be happier roaming about with her colony. The chances are she would not be too welcome back there and she sounds wise enough to know how much more comfortable her life is with you, and that she feels better now than she did - and will hopefully feel even better soon. Mouse loves to look out of my windows here and to sniff the fresh air but he is terrified of going out even in to the stairway leading to the main door for the block - his territory is my apartment and in here is is master of all - outside is scary to him. He watches the birds outside and then he goes off hunting with all his toys, sniffs about for any live mice (but is usually disappointed thankfully), and spends hours checking that everything is in order in his territory. Pixie may love to go out on leash or she may find it less stressful being in her own safe space - she is lucky that you are able and willing to see what she prefers. Do be careful of her getting to the balcony though as she may not understand too well about the fall she would have if she went over the edge.

Hoping her snuffles and sneezes settle down some.

pixies ma · Sep 15, 2015

@MServant I wouldn't let her go out alone, ever. But i really feel like she would be happiest if she were to go outside and see other parts of the world...attached to me with a leash

Well, though she eats well and is getting round, she stlll sleeps a lot and doesn't play for long when she does. Her nose is still stuffy and noisy. It gets so loud when she runs around with a ball in her mouth.
She's been on lactofferin for 4 days now, and i have increased her dose to 250mg daily split in two. I'm hoping this will help, as i really wanted to try giving her her shots in 2 weeks. She will be 4 months old next week...
She needs to be vaccinated before i get her fixed, but even now we are late with that. She will be over 6 months old when im finally able to have her neutered, and from what i understand, that is too late\old and that will make her prone to nipple tumors. And that's if she doesn't get another terrible flare up from her next sets of shots.
I'm starting to think she has nose damage, like polyps. It makes no sense she is still stuffy.
Here re fresh pics.

pix1

pixies ma
Sep 15, 2015

pix2

pixies ma
Sep 15, 2015

pix3

pixies ma
Sep 15, 2015

pix4

pixies ma
Sep 15, 2015

mservant · Sep 16, 2015

Oooooh, pretty Pixie! I swear she is getting prettier as she grows, and what's more - keeping her kitten cuteness with it. Quite the mini tiger in looks ( and in behaviour going by that leg on show

). That belly shot really is like a baby tiger... You can see how much she is growing in the window shot where she's all stretched up - nice. She is looking fit despite still being snuffly.

Some vets will not neuter earlier because they feel the kittens are not strong enough for aneasthesia, and until relatively recently cats were rarely neutered early, esp females so don't worry too much. As long as you keep her very carefully indoors and no risk of encountering entire male cats even if she is not showing any obvious signs of heat I think you are right to wait until she is good and strong for the shots and surgery. My previous vet wouldn't neuter my girls until they were at least 6 months and one of them was beside herself in heat by the time I finally got to take them in - she was wailing and dragging her self round on her back on the carpet constantly and her sister didn't know what to do to help her feel better (I didn't even try, just wished I didn't need to see her going through it all). They both lived healthy lives until almost 18 and 22 with no ill effects from later neutering.

stewball · Sep 16, 2015

She's absolutely beautiful. Don't worry about the operation. Ask if the vet does dissolving stitches inside. So much easier.
She won't need the collar to protect the stitched.

I'm worried and frustrated

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