New kitten(s?) messing beside litter-pan, regardless of litter type, pan type, number of pans or pan

Wondering if anybody may have suggestions as to what's going on, as this exact situation appears not to be covered in any of TCS litter-problems articles.

I'm having severe litter-pan problems with one (possibly both, although I've caught only one doing it) of my new, fourteen-week-old female kitten siblings (for an explnation as to how they came to live here, see my recent thread: Severe introduction problem: new, very friendly, socialised kittens hissing at resident cat). I mention this thread also because the problems started from the moment they arrived, and before any introduction attempts with my other cat, Nimrod. Their problems with him haven't changed the behaviour in any way.


Very simply, no matter what litter I try, the type of pan (open or covered), how many pans are around or where they are placed, at least one of the kittens (Rîna) leaves nice little solid messages either beside or in front of the pan. If possible, she will tuck her feces as close to a wall or corner as possible, and try to scratch around the place.
I'm uncertain as to whether he sister (Tällia) is doing the same, since at times I do find deposits in the litter. But so far as I can tell, Rîna has not once used the litter for solids in the two weeks she's been here. I've tried various locations, also the exact litter used in their foster home. I've tried placing pans directly over every place she's visited. I've put fresh and stale (depending on how long after an event I've caught her) feces in each type of litter and placed her gently in the pan. I've litterally filled the shower with pans (the shower seems to be one of her favourite places), and in every instance, she's found the one tiny place in there into which she can get, where there's no pan.


Her solids appear completely normal, and she appears to be in no discomfort or distress when going; she simply settles herself happily on the floor, pays a visit, has a scratch around the place, gets up and wanders away, tail up and purring. Urination is not a problem; she's happy to use whatever litter is closest, and appears to show no preference. Also, she's happy to dig around in the litter, both before and after urinating, and shows no distress. If she wants to do both, she'll urinate in the litter, bury it, get out and eliminate happily on the floor, regardless of which pan or litter she's using, or how many pans are in the vicinity.


Unfortunately, this is very close to rehoming teritory, as, having something of a sight problem, I simply can't afford a situation in which I might not see a mess (or worse, step in it). The only other alternative is to banish her (or both) outside, which would be an appallingly cruel thing to do to young kittens. In every other way, both are extremely well socialised, and very friendly and affectionate. The problems with Nimrod mentioned in my other thread aren't helping, but I'm prepared to be patient. This, however, really is becoming extremely serious, as there is simply no way to know where she (or both) might decide next to drop little messages. The only hint of consolation is that, in the main, those messages are left in general quite close to the pans. That isn't a 100% certainty however: twice they've gone in the bath, which definitely is not good. I've had to resort to leaving a couple of inches of water in there, which seems to have stopped them for the moment. I really don't like doing this however, as twice they've jumped straight into the water. Besides, long-term, that's not a viable solution.


Obviously, there will be a reason for what's going on, and I'm perfectly aware they're not doing this to annoy me. However, it is becoming extremely difficult to maintain patience, and definitely I don't want to reach the stage of resenting them so much that I'll stop giving a damn, and think of rehoming simply to avoid having to clean up messes on a daily basis.


Any suggestions would very much be appreciated.

Have you thought of trying Puppy Pads? Once she's consistently going on the pads, you could try gradually moving them into an empty litterbox. Then, just start adding a sprinkling of litter, slowly increasing the amount until she's using a box normally. It won't be quick, but in the meantime the pads are much easier to clean up than 'accidents'.

Another approach would be to get a very shallow baking tray and put a little litter in that. She may just not like having to step into a more conventional box, for whatever reason. Shallow trays are the very first experience kittens have of litterboxes, so it may feel more comfortable/familiar to her. Again, I know its not ideal, but it's better than the current situation.

The only other thing I can think of is Dr Elsey's Kitten Attract litter. It's got a particular scent that tells kittens very strongly that this is the right place to go. It's been known to work where everything else has failed, and the adult version is often used to train ferals about litterboxes. It has an incredibly high success rate.

Good luck

Columbine said:

Have you thought of trying Puppy Pads? Once she's consistently going on the pads, you could try gradually moving them into an empty litterbox. Then, just start adding a sprinkling of litter, slowly increasing the amount until she's using a box normally. It won't be quick, but in the meantime the pads are much easier to clean up than 'accidents'.

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I hadn't, only because I thought these were intended primarily for urination, rather than elimination? If I'm mistaken, then definitely that's not at all a bad idea.

Another approach would be to get a very shallow baking tray and put a little litter in that. She may just not like having to step into a more conventional box, for whatever reason. Shallow trays are the very first experience kittens have of litterboxes, so it may feel more comfortable/familiar to her. Again, I know its not ideal, but it's better than the current situation.

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I had wondered (of course) whethe the various pans were bothering her for some reason. The only problem with this is that she appears consistently to be using them for urination. There may have been one instance where she wet in the bath (I can't prove it, and also it had just been cleaned with bleach, which may have attracted her), but several times I've seen he step happily into the pans for that, step out, eliminate on the floor, scratch around, then wander happily away. Still, I've found an old, cheap baking tray that looks like it's had the worst of it in an argument with something very hot and very burnt (Gawd knows how long it's been tucked away at the back of a cupboard ), so I'll give that a try.

The only other thing I can think of is Dr Elsey's Kitten Attract litter. It's got a particular scent that tells kittens very strongly that this is the right place to go. It's been known to work where everything else has failed, and the adult version is often used to train ferals about litterboxes. It has an incredibly high success rate.

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I've just tried a search, and it seems it may not be available here; surprising, to say the least. However, I'll keep looking; definitely that would be the best solution, as I'm starting to suspect they were never properly litter-trained. To be blunt, I'm starting to suspect there were a few small but important things not done correctly regarding them; apparently, this is their fosterer's first experience in a kitten-rescue group, and unfortunately, I suspect she's simply too inexperienced. Had K fostered them (IMO as should have been done), I very much doubt I'd have had any problems.. Unfortunately, it was just bad luck; she had loads of kittens, this particular woman had none. So they were assigned to her.

Good luck

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Thanks. Looks like I'm going to need it; just cleaned up yet another little present.

Have you tried confining the kitten(s) to a small space...possibly even crating one/both to get proper litter box usage? This is what I would do, especially since you believe they were not properly trained (and it does appear that way.)

Also, have you used a good enzymatic cleaner to clean where she had had accidents?

Yes, puppy pads are designed primarily for urination, but there's no reason why they couldn't be used in the way I suggested. Sometimes creative thinking is what it takes to get the job done.

There isn't any logic as to why Rina would accept a shallow tray instead of a box for pooping, but then, cats have never been accused of being logical :lol3: It really is a case of if it works, go with it!

I don't know if you have Amazon in Australia, but I've found they often have American cat brands and products when I can't find them elsewhere. Certainly, Amazon UK is the only place I've found Kitten Attract in this country. Other than that, I don't know what to suggest.

:cross: that the other options work for you, just in case.

CatPack said:

Have you tried confining the kitten(s) to a small space...possibly even crating one/both to get proper litter box usage? This is what I would do, especially since you believe they were not properly trained (and it does appear that way.)

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Yes; in fact, the majority of accidents occur at night when they're confined to the bathroom (non-U.S. meaning there: I'm not locking the poor little things in the toilet ).

Also, have you used a good enzymatic cleaner to clean where she had had accidents?

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I tried absolutely soaking the area with Urine Off, and leaving it for several hours before washing away the residue with plain water. Unfortunately, that seemed actually to attract them to the place! As you might imagine, I'm a little hesitant to try that again.

Columbine said:

There isn't any logic as to why Rina would accept a shallow tray instead of a box for pooping, but then, cats have never been accused of being logical :lol3: It really is a case of if it works, go with it!

Click to expand...

I've put the old tray down, and it's been investigated. No idea yet as to whether they'll use it, but we'll see.

I don't know if you have Amazon in Australia, but I've found they often have American cat brands and products when I can't find them elsewhere. Certainly, Amazon UK is the only place I've found Kitten Attract in this country.

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It does appear as though locally it's not available. Amazon does have it, but there appear to be some very strange restrictions regarding what they will and will not ship to Australia. I'll have to try buying it, and see what happens at checkout.

Other than that, I don't know what to suggest.

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The Sureflap pet-door arrived this morning, so as an absolute last resort, I can programme in their chips as well as Nimrod's. I'd rather they didn't wander outside quite so young, but to be fair to them, they've shown no tendency to wander during their supervised trips out the back. Actually, it may be helping a little with the other problem: no hissing at Nimrod out in the yard.

:cross: that the other options work for you, just in case.

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Let's hope so.

Magister said:

 
I've put the old tray down, and it's been investigated. No idea yet as to whether they'll use it, but we'll see.

It does appear as though locally it's not available. Amazon does have it, but there appear to be some very strange restrictions regarding what they will and will not ship to Australia. I'll have to try buying it, and see what happens at checkout.

The Sureflap pet-door arrived this morning, so as an absolute last resort, I can programme in their chips as well as Nimrod's. I'd rather they didn't wander outside quite so young, but to be fair to them, they've shown no tendency to wander during their supervised trips out the back. Actually, it may be helping a little with the other problem: no hissing at Nimrod out in the yard.

Let's hope so.

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The litter use to be sold by Petbarn but i can't see it on their website.

Can you get the additive ship to your location?

Grrr Cat said:

The litter use to be sold by Petbarn but i can't see it on their website.

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Yes: a pity, as I'm not far from one of their shops.

Can you get the additive ship to your location?

http://www.amazon.com/Cat-Attract-20-oz/dp/B000O5JXKO

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That should be possible, although it looks as though it can be used only with certain types of litter (no crystals or paper). Still, I'll give it a try.


Fortunately, they seem to have stopped having accidents now in all but the shower, which is a tremendous improvement. Definitely I feel a great deal more patient now that little messes appear to be happening only in one small area. It's still a nuisance, but certainly not insurmountable.