Severe introduction problem: new, very friendly, socialised kittens hissing at resident cat

magister

TCS Member
Thread starter
Adult Cat
Joined
Oct 29, 2014
Messages
136
Purraise
15
Location
British Empire
Just curious as to whether anybody else has encountered this, as, thus far, nothing appears to be having any effect: indeed, I suspect the problem is growing worse..

As some who read Crossing the Bridge may be aware, my little girl, Kîa, vanished without trace four months ago: Farewell, my little one; Kîa: 2012-10-21...2015-04-21). With her brother, Nimrod, pining and miserable, I decided to get two new rescue kittens, in the hope they would (at least in part) replace his lost sister, from whom he had never spent more than a few hours apart.


Rîna and Tällia were chosen with the greatest possible care; they are tortoiseshells (as was Kîa), from a litter of five kittens, extremely well socialised, and were very happy to have shared their foster home (with mother and siblings) with two dogs, a duck, a rabbit, a young, crying baby, a toddler and several adults. Needless to say, they have no fear, and have been extremely friendly and outgoing from the moment they arrived here two weeks ago (just under twelve weeks of age). I was uncertain as to how Nimrod would deal with interlopers on his teritory. But from the start, he has shown no aggression of any kind; although timid towards anybody but myself (I live alone), he appears to want nothing other than to be friends: always approaching the kittens with his tail up, mewing softly. Unfortunately, for whatever reason, both are displaying utterly unexpected agression: hissing; glaring; stalking; crouching, but only under very specific circumstances.


I've read various guides and followed classic introduction steps as much as has been possible under the circumstances. My space, however, is somewhat limited, and it has been impossible to keep them entirely separated. For the present, the kittens are sleeping in the bathroom; Nimrod in his usual place in the laundry. Both Nimrod and Kîa always were indoor/outdoor cats, but I've tried to keep the kittens indoors until they're familiar thoroughly with their new home, and are a little older. Swapping towels between beds; handling Nimrod, then the kittens etc., has gone perfectly: sniffing, purrs and rubbing from all concerned. Exposing all in the same room, whilst I hold any of them results in quiet watching and kitten purrs, even at only about two feet distance. The kittens can smell anything he's had without reacting. They can sniff one another under doors without any nasties. However, the instant the kittens see Nimrod whilst on the floor, both arch their backs, hiss, stare and crouch. Rîna adds growls into the mix. If I pick her up and sit her in my lap, whilst I sit on the floor almost beside Nimrod, the hisses turn to purrs and her tail goes up. I can rub his face, then hers, and the purrs continue. I can pat both at the same time without a problem. However, the instant she's down, it's all aggression and hissing. Her sister is a little better (hissing without growling), but essentially, the problem is the same.


If the aggression was more generalised, the solution would be obvious: reintroductions from scratch. However, I can't see this would help with such a specific aggressive response.


Rather than getting better, I consider the problem is growing worse. Always timid, Nimrod is becoming increasingly frightened, when every approach he makes is met with hissing and agression. He whimpers and cries to be let out, and is spending less and less time inside. Worse, his teritory is shrinking; sometimes he'll whimper before coming in, he's wary now about going into the sitting-room, even when both kittens are locked in the bathroom, he's eating less, and he's stopped climbing on the cat tree. Still, he seems to want to keep trying to be friends, especially if I'm there with them all.


So, any ideas. Although I'm determined to make this work, Nimrod was here first, and the poor little boy's been through enough, without having to put up with this. I couldn't have asked for more friendly kittens, but I'm not prepared to have Nimrod suffer any more. If I can't find a solution, then better to rehome them sooner, rather than months down the track, which would be tremendously unfair to them. Hopefully, it won't come to that.
 
Last edited:

Columbine

TCS Member
Veteran
Joined
Feb 27, 2015
Messages
12,921
Purraise
6,224
Location
The kitty playground
I remember your thread about Kia. I am so, so sorry that these new kittens have caused yet more problems.

I think you're going to have to go back to square one and restart introductions from scratch, and for this reason - Nimrod. It was his home first, and he HAS to feel comfortable and confident in it. Separation would allow him to reclaim his territory and feel safe again. This is crucial for future integrations to go well - the more Nimrod loses confidence, the more prey-like he'll act, and the worse the interactions will be.

I think a really crucial stage in the process is going to be the feedings within scent and then sight of one another with a barrier between them. Take plenty of time in this phase - this is where the kittens learn that Nimrod is a good thing, and vice versa.

If you aren't already, I strongly suggest that you start using Feliway diffusers - throughout if possible. Lavender is a very calming scent for cats as well as humans, so having that around in some way could help too. I would usually suggest Spirit Essences too, but I don't know if they're available in Australia (I suspect not - we don't have them in the UK either). The alternative is Bach's Flower Remedies. The downside of these is they're not pre blended, but I'd be happy to make some suggestions if you give me more detailed character/behaviour profiles for each of them. Composure is also an option but I'm less sure about using that in kittens, though Nimrod may benefit from it short term.

Daily interactive playtime for each of them is crucial too - it will build self and territorial confidence, and allows excess energy to be drained in a positive way. It's a fantastic stress buster too.

Also, look at your home from a cat's perspective. Try to remove any ambush points and dead ends - make your home full of escape routes. Increasing available vertical space is a great idea anyway - by doing that you're effectively increasing the available territory - particularly important now you have three cats instead of two. This thread has some great examples of what can be achieved with a little imagination.
[thread="297074"]Snick And Jaspers New Cat Wall Furniture  [/thread]
I know you say you've read lots of articles, but I'm going to post a few just in case there's anything you've missed.
[article="32680"]How To Successfully Introduce Cats The Ultimate Guide  [/article][article="29726"]Introducing Cats To Cats  [/article][article="29658"]The Multi Cat Household  [/article][article="30274"]Potential Stressors In Cats The Ultimate Checklist  [/article][article="30316"]Six Surefire Strategies To Reduce Stress In Cats  [/article][article="32758"]You Your Cat And Stress  [/article][article="0"]Cat Play The Rules Of The Game  [/article][article="0"]Playing With Your Cat Ten Things Every Cat Owner Needs To Know  [/article]
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #3

magister

TCS Member
Thread starter
Adult Cat
Joined
Oct 29, 2014
Messages
136
Purraise
15
Location
British Empire
Haven't had a chance yet to check the articles; I'll do that later today after a curl (been up working for much of the night). But thought I'd give a brief reply now, before going off for a long-overdue kip (sleep). :)
I remember your thread about Kia. I am so, so sorry that these new kittens have caused yet more problems.

I think what's most disappointing is the fact that we (myself and K, from whom also I got Kîa and Nimrod) were so very careful in choosing the two new kittens. I was prepared for Nimrod to be upset: he was always timid with everybody but me (and Kîa of course), and she was by far the more dominant of the two, and (especially when they were kittens), tended very much to watch over him. But he has been astonishingly accepting and tolerant. What I didn't expect was that kittens who had been exposed to, and who had played happily with so many animals (as I said: duck; rabbit; two dogs; other siblings and mother; young children, etc.), and who settled here without a moment's fear or hesitation, would display such sudden, unlooked-for aggression towards Nimrod, who seemed to want only to try to make friends. If they'd not been well socialised, I could understand that perhaps they're frightened. But they show absolutely no fear towards any humans, and showed no fear or aggression towards any of the animals in the foster home.

I think you're going to have to go back to square one and restart introductions from scratch, and for this reason - Nimrod. It was his home first, and he HAS to feel comfortable and confident in it. Separation would allow him to reclaim his territory and feel safe again. This is crucial for future integrations to go well - the more Nimrod loses confidence, the more prey-like he'll act, and the worse the interactions will be.

The problem is the practicality of trying consistently to keep them separated. If he trusted anybody else, it would be simple; I've several who would be willing to help. But that's utterly out of the question; he'd simply cry to go out, and vanish until they left.


Unfortunately, the kittens bolt from the bathroom (non-U.S. definition of Bathroom, BTW: I'm not locking them in the toilet :D ), to explore, the instant the door is opened. Site-swapping isn't an option; Nimrod has never been confined (there's never been a need), and all that does is make him cry desperately to be let out. Of course, he'll accept being confined for a while in the laundry (where he and Kîa slept). But that's not going to help, since I can't confine the kittens in there (they won't use his litter, and I end up with messes on the floor). Also, it's his last place of safety, and putting them in there simply upsets him (he cries, and then won't eat there unless I stay with him) I meant to mention also that there are strange inconsistencies with him. Although apparently frightened, he switches to tail up and purring whenever he's near me, even when the kittens are around. But the moment I move away (or he moves away), once more he's timid.

I think a really crucial stage in the process is going to be the feedings within scent and then sight of one another with a barrier between them. Take plenty of time in this phase - this is where the kittens learn that Nimrod is a good thing, and vice versa.

The problem there is that they're perfectly happy with any kind of barrier. As I said, they're happy even almost face-to-face, so long as I'm holding them. Nimrod will eat under those circumstances, as though he understands that with me holding them, they can't hurt him. But the instant they're down, it's on for young and old; a complete switch from purring to hissing! :( The only thing I've not tried thus far is feeding them at that point.

If you aren't already, I strongly suggest that you start using Feliway diffusers - throughout if possible.

I'm running two: one at each end of the house, which covers it and to spare. Unfortunately, Feliway Multi-Cat doesn't appear here to be available: the version I'd have preferred.
Lavender is a very calming scent for cats as well as humans, so having that around in some way could help too.


Ugh! Can't stand the stuff! :D It's made me think always from a little tacker of old, stuffy homes, and old, gloomy people. Which is somewhat weird, as no old family member I recall ever had it in their house. But, of course, I'm happy to give it a try. :)

I would usually suggest Spirit Essences too, but I don't know if they're available in Australia (I suspect not - we don't have them in the UK either).

I think you're right; I've not been able to find them. Rescue Remedy appears to be available, but I'm a little concerned regarding the alcohol content for young kittens, so would want to be very certain I got the pet version.

The alternative is Bach's Flower Remedies. The downside of these is they're not pre blended, but I'd be happy to make some suggestions if you give me more detailed character/behaviour profiles for each of them. Composure is also an option but I'm less sure about using that in kittens, though Nimrod may benefit from it short term.

The Vetalogica Tranquil Formula always has worked wonders with him (tryptophan plus a load of vitamins,minerals, etc.). It appears to be safe for kittens, but getting it into them is proving a trial; they don't seem to like the taste, although he absolutely loves them.

Daily interactive playtime for each of them is crucial too - it will build self and territorial confidence, and allows excess energy to be drained in a positive way. It's a fantastic stress buster too.

Unfortunately, he won't play whilst they're awake, even if they're locked in the bathroom. I've had to wait until they're put down for the night and he's certain they're asleep, then play with him. Of course, often they hear us, and want out to join in, especially as he loves tugging any interactive toys from one end of the house to the other (right past the bathroom), with me on the other end. :). But it's been the only solution thus far


I know it's premature and could be dangerous, although this is a very quiet area. But I've been risking letting them out into the back yard, so he can have at least a little time in the house entirely alone. Not the ideal solution, but it's been the only way he's even started to regain some confidence. Also, their interactions outside appear to be far less confrontational, I assume because the teritory is much larger?

Also, look at your home from a cat's perspective. Try to remove any ambush points and dead ends - make your home full of escape routes. Increasing available vertical space is a great idea anyway - by doing that you're effectively increasing the available territory - particularly important now you have three cats instead of two.

Fortunately, there's plenty of vertical space. Problem is that he refuses to use the majority of the trees and towers. He was the same with Kîa, although in her case, he didn't seem to mind; she was simply dominant, and (I imagine in his eyes) entitled to the highest and best positions. They never quarrelled over teritory; he simply accepted she would take pride of place, and seemed happy with what she didn't want.


Well, this turned out to be rather long after all. :) I think I've read all the articles you've referenced, but definitely it won't hurt to have another look after a curl. :)
 
Last edited:

Columbine

TCS Member
Veteran
Joined
Feb 27, 2015
Messages
12,921
Purraise
6,224
Location
The kitty playground
Hmm....this really is a very tricky problem. It wasn't clear in your OP that you'd done the joint feedings and they'd gone well. This clearly needs a more creative approach than the usual one. I'm going to throw a few ideas at you...just thinking aloud here, so I apologise if I'm being dense ;)


  • Have you though of using a dog crate for the kittens? I don't mean all of the time, but to get them and Nimrod used to being in the main living areas of the house at the same time. The idea is that the crate will help them all to feel more confident and less threatened.
  • Variation on joint feedings - find a really high value treat, one they all go crazy for. It doesn't have to be an actual cat treat - human food they love is fine too (especially plain meat or fish). Have it all to hand, then get the cats in the same room, keeping yourself in-between them. They only get this 'jackpot' food under these circumstances. Hopefully the lure of this extra special food will help overcome any nervousness on any of their parts. (you could combine this with the dog crate exercise too).
  • Really try to work on Nimrod's confidence in play - it would be great if he could get to the point where he felt able to play when the kittens are awake.

The more I think about it, the more I think the hissing etc from the kittens is nervousness on their part. Asha used to hiss and growl at Shadow, but it was definitely coming from fear/nerves rather than anything more sinister. The only difference was that Shadow's more confident than Nimrod, and so was able to cope without being worried by it.

If the three of them really are fine together until the barrier is removed, then there is another trick that might work. You could try taking a cloth and a little vanilla extract and rubbing them down with it to make them all smell the same. There are two ways of doing this - one is to use a separate cloth for each cat, and the other is to use one cloth, rub them all down first, and then repeat with the vanilla. The point of this is to make them all smell the same, so they more readily accept each other. I would only use the single cloth option if you are CERTAIN that they are all fine with each other in every other respect. They won't be able to get away from the scent once this is done, so they have to be really accepting of everyone's scent before trying this (imo, anyway).

On another note - have you considered cat proofing your garden so you can be certain that all three will stay safe? It would never have occurred to me before joining this site, but it is something I would be thinking about in your situation. I would hate you to go through the same tragedy twice.

The calming measures you're taking all sound very good to me. There is no right or wrong way with these things - it's whichever product (or combination of products) works for your cats best.

I really hope some of these suggestions are of use. If not, I'll keep thinking.

(I hate lavender too, btw, but sometimes needs must ;) ).
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #5

magister

TCS Member
Thread starter
Adult Cat
Joined
Oct 29, 2014
Messages
136
Purraise
15
Location
British Empire
Hmm....this really is a very tricky problem. It wasn't clear in your OP that you'd done the joint feedings and they'd gone well.

To be absolutely clear here: the joint feeding wasn't exactly planned :D ; it just happened that on Friday evening, they dived into the laundry just after I'd put Nimrod's food down. And of course, little heads had to get into the bowl while he sat and watched. Since they were all there, and it was the first time there'd been no hissing, I decided to shut everybody (including myself) in there, and see how things went. That was the high point: i.e., when I was able to hold each kitten and get them very close, pat kittens and Nimrod at the same time, etc.. That entire session lasted almost forty minutes, and it really did look like excellent progress. Unfortunately, we were back to kitten-hissing again next day.

This clearly needs a more creative approach than the usual one. I'm going to throw a few ideas at you...just thinking aloud here, so I apologise if I'm being dense ;)

Perfectly fine. :)

  • Have you though of using a dog crate for the kittens? I don't mean all of the time, but to get them and Nimrod used to being in the main living areas of the house at the same time. The idea is that the crate will help them all to feel more confident and less threatened.

Yes; before the kittens arrived, I bought the largest soft dog-crate I could (Animates Dog Soft Crates), and set it up in the sitting-room. Unfortunately, they're extremely active (far more even than were Kîa and Nimrod when first I got them), and although they don't at all mind being in there, it's very difficult to be certain when Nimrod will be willing to come in without being frightened. I'd have to get him inside, then get the kittens into the crate, then get him into the sitting-room. Unfortunately, the moment he's aware the kittens are awake and active, he wants out again. He doesn't panic; he simply cries softly and heads quietly for the door the moment I put him down. Definitely it's worth another try though. All of them love the warm, so I can set the heating up high (a little too warm for me :D ), get the room nice and cozy, then try again. It's a quiet, very peaceful place (don't know exactly why; it just has that feel about it), so I'll give it another go this evening when Rîna and Tällia are ready for bed.

  • Variation on joint feedings - find a really high value treat, one they all go crazy for. It doesn't have to be an actual cat treat - human food they love is fine too (especially plain meat or fish). Have it all to hand, then get the cats in the same room, keeping yourself in-between them. They only get this 'jackpot' food under these circumstances. Hopefully the lure of this extra special food will help overcome any nervousness on any of their parts. (you could combine this with the dog crate exercise too).

Unfortunately, unlike Kîa and Nimrod, neither kitten appears to be particularly food-motivated. I've not found anything yet to bring them running for more. A pity, as I'm trying to teach them always to come when I trigger their locator tags. But as a motivator, food just doesn't seem very strong, even though there's no problem at all with them eating.


Nimrod is another matter; he loves his treats, and absolutely loves Vegemite, as did Kîa.

  • Really try to work on Nimrod's confidence in play - it would be great if he could get to the point where he felt able to play when the kittens are awake.

Definitely. Trouble is that as soon as he hears them, he gives a tiny cry, turns quietly away and pads to the nearest door to go out. No panic, just what I'd describe as a sad, gentle resignation. :(


Kîa would have made such a difference for him. But, of course, had she lived, I'd not have taken the kittens. Should still somehow she find her way home, I think the difference in Nimrod would be profound. Not quite so certain though whether she would put up with two, hissy little interlopers; I could imagine each getting a good swipe or two to teach them better manners. :D After which they might well be the best of friends; Kîa was free and wild at heart, but was one of the kindest, most generously good-natured cats I've known.

The more I think about it, the more I think the hissing etc from the kittens is nervousness on their part. Asha used to hiss and growl at Shadow, but it was definitely coming from fear/nerves rather than anything more sinister. The only difference was that Shadow's more confident than Nimrod, and so was able to cope without being worried by it.

I think you're right, especially since Rîna has a tendency to hiss and growl at any new interactive toys, even though she's quite happy immediately to play with them.

If the three of them really are fine together until the barrier is removed, then there is another trick that might work. You could try taking a cloth and a little vanilla extract and rubbing them down with it to make them all smell the same. There are two ways of doing this - one is to use a separate cloth for each cat, and the other is to use one cloth, rub them all down first, and then repeat with the vanilla. The point of this is to make them all smell the same, so they more readily accept each other. I would only use the single cloth option if you are CERTAIN that they are all fine with each other in every other respect. They won't be able to get away from the scent once this is done, so they have to be really accepting of everyone's scent before trying this (imo, anyway).

I'm happy to give that a try. My only concern would be that scent doesn't appear primarily to be the problem. Or, at least, it doesn't appear to be what is making Rîna and Tällia hiss, as both don't react at all to things he's used: e.g., a towel I'd put on his bed for a few nights, then moved to theirs. They were quite happy to curl up on it without a problem.

On another note - have you considered cat proofing your garden so you can be certain that all three will stay safe? It would never have occurred to me before joining this site, but it is something I would be thinking about in your situation. I would hate you to go through the same tragedy twice.

I have looked into it as much as possible; as you say, it would be utterly appalling should the same thing happen again. :( Unfortunately, there is no front fence, as I share a common driveway (and part of the front garden) with the unit behind mine. The back yard is very small, gets no sun, and would be a cruel place in which to build an enclosure. The front is superb, but an enclosure out there really is impractical, given it's a common area for both units on the block.

The calming measures you're taking all sound very good to me. There is no right or wrong way with these things - it's whichever product (or combination of products) works for your cats best.

I really hope some of these suggestions are of use. If not, I'll keep thinking.

Thanks; it's very much appreciated. :)

(I hate lavender too, btw, but sometimes needs must ;) ).

Indeed. :D Anything's worth a try, and of course, it's more than worth it to see them settled, and Nimrod happy again. I won't deny I've wondered if ever really he'll be again his old self; it was a pointless, needlessly cruel thing to happen. :(
 
Last edited:

Columbine

TCS Member
Veteran
Joined
Feb 27, 2015
Messages
12,921
Purraise
6,224
Location
The kitty playground
On the scent thing - cats are so scent oriented that making them all smell the same (based on what you say, I'd go for the second method) that just that change COULD make a big difference.

I'm sure you'll find a way through this. I hope some of the suggestions help...even if it's just a little. :vibes: :vibes: :vibes: :vibes: :vibes: :vibes: :vibes: :vibes: :vibes: :vibes: :vibes: :vibes: :vibes: :vibes: :vibes: :vibes: :vibes: :vibes: :vibes: :vibes: :vibes: :vibes: :vibes: :vibes: :vibes: :vibes:
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #7

magister

TCS Member
Thread starter
Adult Cat
Joined
Oct 29, 2014
Messages
136
Purraise
15
Location
British Empire
On the scent thing - cats are so scent oriented that making them all smell the same (based on what you say, I'd go for the second method) that just that change COULD make a big difference.

Things went a little better tonight; Nimrod stayed drinking from the tap (something he loves to do) with Tällia right beside him, watching him (presumabaly fascinated to see what he was doing). One hiss from Rîna when he got too close, but she settled down and even tried to stick her head in his bowl while he was eating. Unfortunately, he mewed, jumped away and just let her have his food. But at least she didn't hiss at him again.


Unfortunately, I've had to start another tread regarding a litter-pan problem which has existed since they arrived (and before ever they met Nimrod), and is showing no sign of getting better. This really is a pity, since they're so friendly and affectionate. But all these things are just piling up, and I'm starting to lose patience, which is not good. :(

I'm sure you'll find a way through this. I hope some of the suggestions help...even if it's just a little. :vibes: :vibes: :vibes: :vibes: :vibes: :vibes: :vibes: :vibes: :vibes: :vibes: :vibes: :vibes: :vibes: :vibes: :vibes: :vibes: :vibes: :vibes: :vibes: :vibes: :vibes: :vibes: :vibes: :vibes: :vibes: :vibes:

Let's hope so.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #8

magister

TCS Member
Thread starter
Adult Cat
Joined
Oct 29, 2014
Messages
136
Purraise
15
Location
British Empire
Unfortunately, not at all good last night, and now poor Nimrod is much worse.

As things seemed to be improving by letting the kittens interact with him out in the back yard, I let them out for a while yesterday evening. I've no idea what happened (no hissing, so far as I can tell). But Nimrod started crying and flinching away from them, even out there, which was not happening before. He refused even to approach the door until they were inside, and wouldn't come in even into the laundry until they were safely tucked up asleep. He came in for a minute or so for a nibble, then went and hid outside until almost midnight (long after they were asleep). Now he's vanished again; won't come when I call and is nowhere to be seen.


I not yet tremendously concerned; when he's frightened he can vanish for up to twelve hours. But obviously he's becoming more, rather than less frightened of the kittens, the more they interact, even supervised. He'll no longer come inside at all if they're around; no play; no curling up on the bed Even when he knows they're asleep and can't hurt him, he cries and wants out as soon as possible..


Very reluctantly, I've spoken this morning to the head of the rescue group, then had a long conversation with K. Luckily, should I have to return one or both kittens, there are several new homes waiting; there is absolutely no danger either will not find a new home. Both are very social and are used to a large, noisy environment.


But it is a tremendous pity; they are superbly friendly, outgoing and affectionate. But there would be no hope of rehoming Nimrod, even were I willing to consider it, which, of course, I'm not, as he was here first and this is his home.


K is visiting on Sunday, which gives me four days to try to salvage the situation before a decision has to be made. I'm going to try very short, supervised interactions with one at a time, to see whether he's able to accept one more than the other. If both must go, then so be it. But I do believe he needs a companion, and perhaps it may be possible at least to keep one, and he may be happy again. Let's hope so; he's suffered enough.
 

Columbine

TCS Member
Veteran
Joined
Feb 27, 2015
Messages
12,921
Purraise
6,224
Location
The kitty playground
:hugs: I am so, so sorry that things aren't woking out. Sadly, I think you're doing the right thing. Nimrod has to be your first priority. Maybe these two just were't meant to be. You're so right though - two such well socialised kittens should be easy to rehome.

You're right that Nimrod needs a companion though. I wonder whether yo'd do better with a single cat nearer to Nimrod's age, and of a similar energy level. It's so hard trying to find matches though, and the most unlikely pairings can sometimes work.

You have NOTHING to feel guilty about. No one could have predicted this outcome. Sometimes its better to admit defeat and start fresh (maybe after a break to allow Nimrod to decompress).
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #10

magister

TCS Member
Thread starter
Adult Cat
Joined
Oct 29, 2014
Messages
136
Purraise
15
Location
British Empire
:hugs: I am so, so sorry that things aren't woking out. Sadly, I think you're doing the right thing. Nimrod has to be your first priority. Maybe these two just were't meant to be.
I refuse to give up just yet, even though things do look pretty hopeless. At least now that the decision has been made and I know the kittens will be all right should they have to be returned, there is no longer any pressure.

You're so right though - two such well socialised kittens should be easy to rehome.

Yep; both K and the head of the rescue group had absolutely no worries there. :) And I agree: I've not seen more friendly, confident, well-adjusted kittens. :)

You're right that Nimrod needs a companion though. I wonder whether yo'd do better with a single cat nearer to Nimrod's age, and of a similar energy level. It's so hard trying to find matches though, and the most unlikely pairings can sometimes work.

A week or so before I got them, the was a pure black, sixteen-month-old female at the local Pet Barn definitely who I'd have considered, had I not been going to take the kittens. She was extremely affectionate, and seemed very gentle. Curiously, she reminded me immediately of Kîa, even though they looked nothing alike; there was just something about her. Her noggin was up against my hand the moment I approached the cage, her motor going like mad. :) Definitely, she was ready to come home; I felt a little sorry for her. But I couldn't have taken her as well as two kittens, and of course, there is no way to know how she would have reacted to Nimrod, even had it been possible. But she did seem to be a superb, very kindly ittle girl. :) Had it have worked, I think she would have been exactly what he needed.

You have NOTHING to feel guilty about. No one could have predicted this outcome. Sometimes its better to admit defeat and start fresh (maybe after a break to allow Nimrod to decompress).

Agreed. Should I have to try again, I'll be looking for a social, dominant but gentle female of his own age. He doesn't seem to want to be smothered with attention; he seems just to want and like always to be nearby, and to know he's safe. :)
 

Columbine

TCS Member
Veteran
Joined
Feb 27, 2015
Messages
12,921
Purraise
6,224
Location
The kitty playground
I know you haven't given up yet. Like you, I'm hoping that Nimrod WILL be able to settle down a bit and accept the kittens. Nevertheless, I think its wise that you have the option of returning them, just in case things don't work out. :cross: that it doesn't come to that :vibes:
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #12

magister

TCS Member
Thread starter
Adult Cat
Joined
Oct 29, 2014
Messages
136
Purraise
15
Location
British Empire
I know you haven't given up yet. Like you, I'm hoping that Nimrod WILL be able to settle down a bit and accept the kittens. Nevertheless, I think its wise that you have the option of returning them, just in case things don't work out. :cross: that it doesn't come to that :vibes:
Well, a sudden, astounding turn-around this afternoon. :) Having absolutely nothing to lose (tomorrow (Sunday) was D-Day), I let the girls out the back again this morning with Nimrod, and again early this afternoon, and simply left them to it. As before, absolutely no idea what happened (apart from hearing a few little mews from him now and then), but not long before half Five this afternoon, he wanted suddenly inside. He came straight into the bedroom and was straight up on the bed. Both kittens came in soon afterwards, and
Tällia jumped up, purring and almost but not quite rubbing around him while he just lay there. He cried a little when Rîna got too close, but he didn't run away.


And now it's just after half Seven, and he's snuggled down on the bed whilst the kittens wander around from bed to floor and back again. He's not quite sure yet, but it's a vast improvement. :)
 

Columbine

TCS Member
Veteran
Joined
Feb 27, 2015
Messages
12,921
Purraise
6,224
Location
The kitty playground
Oh, wow! :wow: :clap: :banana2: :woohoo: :party4: :woo: :hyper:


That is such great news! :D 'Not quite sure' is fine for now. I'm so glad things are working out with the three of them. I hope Nimrod's getting extra treats and cuddles for being such a good, brave boy!
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #14

magister

TCS Member
Thread starter
Adult Cat
Joined
Oct 29, 2014
Messages
136
Purraise
15
Location
British Empire
Oh, wow! :wow: :clap: :banana2: :woohoo: :party4: :woo: :hyper:


That is such great news! :D 'Not quite sure' is fine for now. I'm so glad things are working out with the three of them. I hope Nimrod's getting extra treats and cuddles for being such a good, brave boy!

Oh yes; he got some Vegemite (definitely a favourite :D ), and lots of attention. :)


And unbelievably, things got still a lot better; what I described was just the start. All three spent well over an hour curled up on the bed. At one point,
Nimrod and Rîna were only about six inches apart, with little Tällia snuggled between them, and Nimrod sound asleep without a care in the world! :D It's astounding such a change could happen in so short a time. Now, let's hope there's no regression tomorrow. Both girls are down for the night, and Nimrod is having his usual run outside; probably he'll come in at about half Ten.


But definitely a very successful day. :)
 
Last edited:
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #16

magister

TCS Member
Thread starter
Adult Cat
Joined
Oct 29, 2014
Messages
136
Purraise
15
Location
British Empire
Well, it's been a little over two weeks, and truly I wish I could say things have continued to improve. But after a very promising few days, things have gone very much down-hill. :(

The kittens themselves have been vastly better: no more hissing at Nimrod, and it seems definitely they want now just to be friends. Unfortunately, Nimrod simply can't trust them, no matter what I try. He'll no longer sleep inside: just cries to go out, even with the kittens locked away from him. He's lost all territory in the house (he won't assert himself at all), and won't go into the sitting-room, even when both kittens are outside. Basically, I barely see him, save when he's hungry; he can vanish for up to sixteen hours a day. I've tried pretty-much everything I can think of; he'll simply no longer interact with them in any way: just mews softly and wanders quietly away, no matter what I try, or how gently the two girls approach him.


Obviously, this can't go on; either he'll run away, or something will happen to him out there on his own, with nowhere to go. :( As disappointing as it is, I see now very little hope things are going to work. Had I more room, there might be some chance of establishing separate areas inside, with a chance of slow, careful integration over time. But with Nimrod hiding for the vast majority of the time out there with no shelter and nowhere safe, I can't see any solution.


I'm giving it till next Friday (the 18th of September), in the faint hope something may turn up. But it does look as though I'll have to say farewell to the two girls. If anybody can think of any way I might convince Nimrod the kittens aren't going to hurt him and that it's safe for him to reclaim some territory inside, I'm open to ideas. I'm pretty-much out of them myself.
 
Last edited:

Columbine

TCS Member
Veteran
Joined
Feb 27, 2015
Messages
12,921
Purraise
6,224
Location
The kitty playground
Oh no :( I'm so, so sorry to hear this. I wish I had some other ideas or suggestions for you to try. Sadly, I've already given you everything I can think of. I hope some other members are able to chime in with suggestions. Such a shame.....and after things were looking so positive too :hugs: :vibes:
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #18

magister

TCS Member
Thread starter
Adult Cat
Joined
Oct 29, 2014
Messages
136
Purraise
15
Location
British Empire
Oh no :( I'm so, so sorry to hear this. I wish I had some other ideas or suggestions for you to try. Sadly, I've already given you everything I can think of. I hope some other members are able to chime in with suggestions. Such a shame.....and after things were looking so positive too :hugs: :vibes:
Unfortunately, things didn't progress beyond that first, brilliant evening. Obviously, something just clicked superbly for that one night, and couldn't be maintained. It really did look as though things would be fine.


I suspect things could work, given enough persistence, and I'm sure the kittens would be a tremendous help for Nimrod, would he but give them the chance. But I can't risk leaving things any longer. With him hiding outside all the time, with no shelter, nowhere to go and unwilling to come in, it's almost inevitable something will happen to him sooner or later.


I'll have a chat to the vet, when I take the two girls tomorrow for their last lot of shots, just in case she can come up with a short-term solution to keep him calm enough to try again. But otherwise, nothing seems to work: Feliway; his Vetalogica calming tablets: both help, but just not enough.


It's a tremendous pity; I've never known more social, well -adjusted kittens. Had they not hissed, I'm almost certain he would have accepted them. But now, it's just too late; he's simply too frightened and distrustful to try.
 
Last edited:

mrsgreenjeens

Every Life Should Have Nine Cats
Staff Member
Advisor
Joined
Aug 13, 2009
Messages
16,441
Purraise
7,221
Location
Arizona
Poor Nimrod!  I wish I had any other options to give you to try, but honestly, I don't.  When our "boys" came here at 4 1/2 months old, one of them charged out of the safe room and attacked Callie, then 9 years old, and basically, she has never forgiven him for that
.  She and Tinky are friends, but she and Darko have never gotten along.  They co-exist, but that's it, and we also did all the integration steps, for 5 long months trying everything we could to make it peaceful around here. 

I truly hope Nimrod gets over this and returns to his old self, with or without "the girls".
 
Top