URI-ish symptoms in one cat, has not spread to other cat?

2bcat

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So yes I'm working on getting one or both cats to the vet, but I'm bad (or is that good?) at procrastinating, and just now that I'm finally at yes we need to go, one of us will be out of town the next few days (we usually both go to vet with the cats).  So I either will have to take them myself on Saturday or wait until Tuesday or later.  (Not usually too difficult to get an appointment, although the Saturday hours got shorter recently so that might not work anyway.)

At issue is Poppet, the smaller of the two black cats.  Seems to me that she's always had a little eye discharge and I didn't think it was anything.  But her eyes have maybe gotten runnier in recent weeks.  Add to this a little increased sneezing and a little, I don't know, an action that sounds  a little like she's going to hack something up but nothing comes up. Maybe that would be termed a cough, but it comes in fits of several and is generally not heard again for days.  That has happened 2 or 3 times that I am aware of, over a period of a number of days (not sure how long but haven't heard it more than a couple times in the last week).  Her sister Widget has none of these symptoms, though, and I have no particular way that I should have communicated a URI to Poppet that I can think of, unless it could somehow transmit from my shoes which may have walked where some feral cat walked outside the house.  The humans have had no direct contact with another cat recently.  The cats have been home for over a year and a half so they haven't had any contact with another cat either.  The cats are 100% indoors.

I mean, these kinda seem like URI symptoms, but if it was a URI, wouldn't the other cat be infected?  So if not a URI, what else might this be?

Additionally, Poppet is not showing signs of being unwell.  Regular appetite, regular activity, regular interaction with us, she hasn't had any stretches of time where she ate less or seemed lethargic or otherwise gave indication that she was feeling poorly.

She does seem to be scratching some, hasn't exactly struck me as more than usual, but I noticed a little sore by her ear yesterday.

I'm not sure what else I should be looking for.  Allergy?

Both cats are known to be coronavirus positive, FWIW, although as usual it seems unlikely that this is really of too much consequence.  They are about 6 years old.

I guess I'm just kinda thinking out loud here and wondering what else you might come up with.
 
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catwoman707

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It does sound like at some time, likely kittenhood she or both had a uri, likely the herpevirus as it involves the eyes more-so than calici.

While the initial cold will clear it is for life, which is why the nickname herpevirus, no relation but meaning for life as herpes is.

It remains dormant until a diet change or any other stress related thing happens and pops up again.

Likely this is what's going on with Poppet.

I don't think it's urgent to see a vet, but if it continues I would.

Also giving lysine daily for life is a good way to help hold off these episodes.
 
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2bcat

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Thanks. It's very likely they've had URI in the past for sure and could have been exposed to anything that spreads easily in a shelter or among lots of kittens. Before they came home with us, their shelter stint was something like 6 months. And that was their third time in that shelter. They were there as kittens and two homes turned them back after I guess a couple years each or something. Sad. We will not give up on them so easily! Not that there's any reason to; we believe other aspects of their prior home environments must have caused whatever problems.

Because they were in the same shelter as kittens as well as a second and then the third time we have ALL that history, very unusual for rescued cats. I don't have it in front of me but something I vaguely recall in the notes makes me think they had come in as kittens from a hoarding or other similar out of control cat population situation. So that would make it pretty likely for them to be exposed to things before vaccinations and such.

Anyway, what I don't find really is any recent stressor. We haven't done any changes, not even to food, at least not since 3+ months ago. And I don't think her symptoms are THAT old. But who knows. It could be something that is known only to her, or it's not really stress but just whatever. If it is FHV there's usually not much to do for a virus except wait it out. I'll look into the lysine though going forward.

They'll still be going to the vet soon because they need checkups regardless. I've just been dragging my feet a little as I sort out a few things like whether we will try to avoid further vaccines for them and similar. That'll probably be the most pressing thing to answer at least. For me these are the sorts of explorations I start on and then have to push aside and pick up later and thus take a long time to finish.
 

stephanietx

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It sounds like it could be allergies or she may even have feline herpes.
 
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2bcat

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Thanks.  I dug out my adoption info and looked through the medical history that I have.  Found various interesting things, one of which is, I think some of our assumptions were wrong!  These two as kittens came into the shelter on the same day, probably from the same large population somewhere (in Poppet's 2013 notes after return it says she was an "original G Street kitten" which suggests a reference to some mass rescue they would have done in 2009 when they were born), but reading the kitten notes I don't think they were litter mates after all.  Widget appears to be a week or two older than Poppet by their estimation.  They gave Widget and her litter mates names beginning with the same letter, but Poppet's shelter name began with a different letter.

The part I remember about them being adopted twice before seems right.  Out as kittens for only a month or two, then back, then out soon after (still would have been young kittens) for about 3 years, then back in 2013 with consistently urinating outside the box (something that has never, ever happened in our house, the shelter folks suspected a dog or other stress in that home may have been part of that problem).  So they went out together twice but they weren't part of the same litter it looks like.  They are both coronavirus positive and both had coccidia as kittens but I can't imagine the parasite means anything now.

Lysine is mentioned at least in Widget's history.  Also Cosequin which apparently was for the urinary issues.  I never realized that.  They sent us home with Hill's c/d food for that, but after using that for a while I eventually shifted them to other quality wet foods and they've been fine.  They did not mention continuing Cosequin that I remember but Widget's chart says "start Cosequin daily for life".  Heh.  Will look into that just in case it helps them feel better.  They did in fact have some signs of crystals and such back when they were returned to the shelter in 2013, but no signs since they've been home (since December 2013).

Anyway, getting a little far from the topic here, just thought I'd write it all out in case something else catches anyone's eye.  This shelter is well-funded and thorough so there's a bunch of info.  It's actually Widget who had some of these symptoms in her 2013 shelter history but they would have been exposed to a lot of things as very young kittens I would think, as they appear to have been around many other cats.
 

catwoman707

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Herpesvirus is extremely common and sure to be in all shelters. This is why shelters vaccinate with the fvrcp vaccine upon intake, to try and prevent the spread of this virus.

Same as coronavirus.
 
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2bcat

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Just realizing that the treats we've been giving are new.  Now I'm wondering if that's it, maybe a reaction to the treats, though she loves them of course.  None of the main ingredients looks really unusual though vs other things they've had in the past.  But I think I'll stop using them for a while and see what happens.  (Now I might have to try to source suitable treats tonight, heh, I have none.  I bought these because the ones they've really liked were not restocked at the store I bought them in.)

The most unusual thing Poppet is doing is the sort of hacking/coughing/trying to clear nose or whatever it is she is doing. It's not clear to me what it is. It's not as violent/loud as a hairball hack, but she puts her head low while lying down and just sort of lightly coughs several times. There had been recent discussion of asthma and it does seem a little similar to that, but I keep watching her for other signs of trouble breathing and I don't feel like I see them.  Trying to watch.

The herpesvirus seems plenty likely but I'm just keeping my eyes open and trying to make sure it's not more serious than that.
 

stephanietx

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If possible, switch them to an all grain-free diet and see if that helps.  The arginine in grains causes the herpes virus to replicate.  Also, be sure to add L-lysine to their diet to help stop the replication of the herpse virus.  Be sure all treats and such are also grain-free.  You could also try adding an allergy med.  We give plain Claritin (loratadine), 1/4 to 1/2 of a 10mg tablet ONCE a day.  We usually get the Wal-Mart or Sam's brand.  They break easily and you can crush in wet food.
 
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2bcat

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Thanks.  They shouldn't be getting any grain.  Their food is canned Tiki Cat chicken and freeze dried Primal pork.  Has been those two for a few months.  The Tiki they have eaten for much longer, the Primal started about May I think it was.  The treats are also grain free but have things like potato and tapioca and such.  They like crunchy treats and not the freeze dried ones so far so I live with them getting a little bit of binder food like that.   I did make a small trial batch of U-Stew with chicken and mixed very small amounts into the Tiki a few times late last week and early this week, but her symptoms started before that.

Those new treats, though, are maybe 3 weeks old and that would correspond perhaps.  The reason I thought about it finally is because I gave them a couple of those when I got home yesterday, and only a few minutes later there's Poppet doing that snuffling thing, whatever it is.  I still don't know really how to term it.  Anyway, I didn't give them any more of those treats, even went out last night and found the ones they were eating previously.  This morning she also did the snuffling, I happened to be right next to her as it was while we were still waking up in the bed and it almost seems like trying to clear her nose or something.  I can't tell.  I put my head against her afterwards and heard some noises as she was breathing, seems like (she wasn't purring at that point) and I really don't know what I'm hearing.  Just congestion related to the cold-like virus symptoms perhaps, or maybe something else, not sure.

I was just  watching videos of cat asthma attacks trying to figure out if that's what I've been witnessing.  It may be, but the cats in the videos so far seems to be moving more violently than Poppet does.  To my knowledge the first time she did that was only days ago though so it's not been a long-term thing.  

Hm, we'll see.  I need to make a call in the next couple hours on whether the vet should wait until next week or not.  It probably can but might worry me too much for the next couple days, heh.
 

catwoman707

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Just a little personal fyi, but my girl Krissy gets runny eyes when I would give her fish type canned.

Takes a while for it to clear too, and she has never had a uri of any sort, had her from the first day born :)

So it may very well be an allergy symptom.
 
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2bcat

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Yeah it's not the runny eyes that bother me at all.  She's pretty much had discharge I've cleared out of the corners of her eyes for as long as I can remember now.  At this stage she tolerates me doing that without trying to pull away or anything, like she knows I'm grooming her that way and she's fine with it.  The coughing/breathing/whatever is the symptom that's disconcerting since it appears a little close to the asthma attack.  In some ways it's stupid me trying to analyze it, just go to vet already.  A crisis at work prevented me from calling the vet during his shorter Friday hours so it's probably not going to be tomorrow now.  Can't be Sunday (closed) or Monday (logistics).  At least I'll be home more next couple days and can get a feel for if that's happening a lot.

Every little thing with cats is big analysis to me. Like is it better to take two cats to vet at once or just take one?  I don't know.  New thread for that maybe? Haha.
 

stephanietx

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My Hannah gets sneezy and snotty when it's stressful in our house.  Sometimes, it's just a little change in our routine that can set her off.  I run Feliway diffusers 24/7 to help de-stress.  When I forget to change it, she starts with the runny eyes, sneezes, and snottiness. 
 
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