Panting + Coughing

Today I took Ming for a "walk" on his leash. That's in quotations because our walks usually mean me following him while he sniffs at bushes. And we never go far before he starts flopping on the ground and rolling on the cement.

Anyway, today was different. I wanted to go to the park near my home and was encouraging him to walk with me, tugging a little at the leash. He wears an H-style leash that is very loose on him (It's more than 2 fingers of space - maybe more like 4 fingers). We went further than normal and once we passed the imaginary line of his familiar territory, he started following me and half jogging to catch up with me which was quite incredible! It was almost like walking a dog. But he seemed a little scared and it looked like he just wanted to get this walking thing over with. 

When I saw that he looked a bit scared and was panting, I picked him up to walk the rest of the way to the park. And he coughed twice while panting in my arms. 

Ming has in the past coughed and it looked like an asthma attack. But we did an x-ray back in March and found he has a larger heart than normal and diagnosed him with POSSIBLE mild cardiomyopathy - no asthma. Basically, we have no definite answers. Since then, Ming coughs here and there and I'm due to have him checked out with another x-ray later on this year just to make sure things aren't progressing for the worse. 

It's a hot day today with some mild warm wind blowing, so I'm wondering if it's also because of the heat that he started panting so soon and then coughing? Do you think this is something to be worried about and is it normal for cats to get tired after some quick jogging? 

mingking said:

It's a hot day today with some mild warm wind blowing, so I'm wondering if it's also because of the heat that he started panting so soon and then coughing? Do you think this is something to be worried about and is it normal for cats to get tired after some quick jogging? 

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Cats over the age of two should never pant or cough, even with a little exercise.  It is possible - and i don't want to scare you but you raised the issue first so we have to be honest here - that this little bit of exercise is pushing him past his cardiovascular limit due to cardiomyopathy which otherwise is not presenting symptoms.

The alternative is that it was hot, and jogging was a factor and that he simply became "winded" but its once thing if a cat open mouth breathes due to heat (not good but not a symptom of HCM per se), but coughing and panting is different.

I would talk to your vet and if he hasn't had an echo-cardiogram, if you can afford it this may be a good time to get on top of whatever may be going on.  If HCM progresses to congestive heart failure (that's when fluid builds up in the lungs) you would see a faster breathing rate while at rest and that can be an emergency.

I agree with Stephen. Absolutely get Ming's heart checked again. Chf is awful to watch - it's so important to keep on top of this kind of thing. That way you won't face the 'what ifs' that I went through with Cali (he was impossible to pill, so we left treatment to near the end. I can't help but wonder whether things would have been different if we'd been more pro active with his treatment).

@Columbine  @StephenQ  Thank you for the responses! I will call the vet for another check up and ask about getting an echo - hopefully soon. I'm a little bit tight on money but I have pet insurance so I think it should cover the costs. I'm getting a little scared again (and rambling) like I did back in March over his coughing...But yes, definitely, a vet visit with some concrete answers should help ease the "what ifs" I always have here and there.

Ming pants at other times too and maybe I can get more insight on what it means and what I should do/avoid doing? After he plays for about 10-15 mins, he'll start panting. This doesn't happen every time but often enough and I've just always thought this is a good sign I've tired him out and even made it my goal to get him to this point - in hindsight, maybe it's not a good idea knowing his condition... There was one time where he was attacking his favourite toy (running with it up the stairs to show me, and then biting it while lying down and sort of throwing it in the air) and then he started panting which I thought was really weird and brushed it off as him getting super excited at finding his fave toy again (we lost it for a few weeks). Then there was one time in the spring during one of his first outings that I saw a glimpse of his tongue and a huff. So I immediately brought him back inside, thinking maybe it was much too warm for him and too much excitement. 

I made this post about his panting because it's the first time he's coughed while panting so that made me worry. Should I try to avoid excessive exercise with him? Is having him jumping off couches and running in circles for 10 mins okay knowing his possible heart condition? 

Moderate exercise should be fine, but don't try to totally exhaust him. Some exercise is important for him - just don't push too hard, and maybe don't encourage jumping/leaping. You vet is the best person to advise you on exactly what/how much exercise Ming has. He's the one looking at the scans and listening to his heart after all.

Don't panic. HCM is not CHF - it's less advanced than that. You might want to ask your vet about medications to support the heart function. I don't know, but it might be possible to stabilise or slow the progression of the disease. My greyhound was diagnosed with CHF a few months ago. With Vetmedin he's pretty much back to normal and (so far) is stable. All that happens is that he tires a little more easily than he used to.

mingking said:

 
@Columbine  @StephenQ  Thank you for the responses! I will call the vet for another check up and ask about getting an echo - hopefully soon. I'm a little bit tight on money but I have pet insurance so I think it should cover the costs. I'm getting a little scared again (and rambling) like I did back in March over his coughing...But yes, definitely, a vet visit with some concrete answers should help ease the "what ifs" I always have here and there.

Ming pants at other times too and maybe I can get more insight on what it means and what I should do/avoid doing? After he plays for about 10-15 mins, he'll start panting. This doesn't happen every time but often enough and I've just always thought this is a good sign I've tired him out and even made it my goal to get him to this point - in hindsight, maybe it's not a good idea knowing his condition... There was one time where he was attacking his favourite toy (running with it up the stairs to show me, and then biting it while lying down and sort of throwing it in the air) and then he started panting which I thought was really weird and brushed it off as him getting super excited at finding his fave toy again (we lost it for a few weeks). Then there was one time in the spring during one of his first outings that I saw a glimpse of his tongue and a huff. So I immediately brought him back inside, thinking maybe it was much too warm for him and too much excitement. 

I made this post about his panting because it's the first time he's coughed while panting so that made me worry. Should I try to avoid excessive exercise with him? Is having him jumping off couches and running in circles for 10 mins okay knowing his possible heart condition? 

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Unfortunately your added details make me worry.  I would be concerned, i would definitely talk to your vet about an echo and see if its covered by insurance, and i would avoid  exercising him.  Panting while engaged in normal play is not normal.

Actually, reading Stephen's post, I think he's right. I'm thinking too much about the specific case I'm dealing with (my dog). Wait for veterinary advice before re starting exercise.

Okay thank you. I'll lay off on the exercise until I speak to my vet.

Is HCM relatively "okay" and does it eventually progress to CHF? I guess when I ask if it's okay is if it's something that gets worse no matter what and shortens his life by a lot?

I'll be doing some more research on CHF and HCM later today when I have time. For now, I think I need to calm down. I'm getting a little scared early in the morning. But I really do appreciate your responses and time!! It's better than ignoring the possibility of this and that which was what I've been sort of doing.

As I understand it HCM is abnormal changes to the heart size, thickness etc, and CHF is when those changes begin to significantly affect the function of the heart. I don't know if its able to stop the one becoming the other, but catching CHF right at the start can make a huge difference to how well the animal responds to treatment. Sadly, its not something that can be cured - only managed.[article="30268"][/article]

edit: It looks like I've become a little confused here. :anon: HCM and CHF symptoms can be very similar. I think I got HCM confused with Dilated Cardiomyopathy. HCM won't necessarily lead to CHF, but can be just as serious as it progresses.

Columbine said:

As I understand it HCM is abnormal changes to the heart size, thickness etc, and CHF is when those changes begin to significantly affect the function of the heart. I don't know if its able to stop the one becoming the other, but catching CHF right at the start can make a huge difference to how well the animal responds to treatment. Sadly, its not something that can be cured - only managed.[article="30268"]Heart Disease In Cats  [/article]

edit: It looks like I've become a little confused here.

HCM and CHF symptoms can be very similar. I think I got HCM confused with Dilated Cardiomyopathy. HCM won't necessarily lead to CHF, but can be just as serious as it progresses.

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This is good to know. I'm not even sure what kind of cardiomyopathy he has - just that it's mild so that gives me some ease. Fingers crossed an echo is doable and gives me answers and treatment options! 

Well, as you can see, I know very little about the diagnostics side of it too. I'm just experienced with nursing animals who have heart disease .........though I'd rather not be........
Many, many healing vibes for your gorgeous boy

HCM is not a good disease to have although it can progress slowly.  But once it gets to the point of symptoms its serious.  This site talks about HCM (not that we know that your cat has it of course) but its a good site with good info and it does mention that exercise that leads to panting is a symptom.  FYI, my cat had HCM, with no symptoms and no heart murmur at all until he starting going into CHF.

http://www.vetmed.wsu.edu/ClientED/hcm.aspx

Hi everyone,

Just giving everyone an update. I've gone to the vet and we've done another x-ray which was sent to the radiologist. The radiologist recommended we do echo if there is a heart murmur heard (no heart murmur) and that the enlargement of Ming's heart is mild, with no signs of heart failure. There has been no change in the size of his heart since we did an x-ray in April. My vet gave me some antibiotics and prednisone again to treat the coughing. He said to try the antibiotics first and if he still coughs, to come back and discuss doing an echo.

I spoke to him about the panting and he said it's been pretty hot and that could be a factor. He asked me to observe him some more. He wasn't concerned about the panting, I guess. 

We also did a blood test and am waiting for results at the moment to rule out heartworm but he says it's unlikely it'll be heartworm since the radiologist didn't see anything. 

Right now.. I'm not sure if I should push for an echo? I brought him in back in April because of coughing and we did antibiotics but had to stop midway because he got sick from hanging out with my friend who has 2 outdoor cats back at home (we did l-lysine and this other liquid med). But his coughing didn't surface up until recently when I've been noticing he'd cough every few days.

I know eventually, I will do an echo. After the x-ray and blood test, I need some time to raise up funds again but at least I know he's not in critical condition. 

(I'm shrugging at the moment. I didn't get answers then and haven't gotten answers now. So I guess I'm asking for some guidance knowing that it'll be another few weeks to months before I can go see the vet again because of $$$ - Boy, do I wish I had unlimited funds  )

It's encouraging that Ming's heart isn't any larger, and that there is no audible murmur. As to the echo - I'm really torn. Part of me says get it done soon so you have the clearest possible picture of what's going on. On the other hand, I don't like putting animals through lots of tests (especially since sedation is almost always necessary, and that carries its own risks). Its such a hard one to call. I think you have to ask what echo results will actually change in terms of medication and treatment. If the results wouldn't change treatment and day to day life then it would be far less important to me than if it would change the practical side of things. Ultimately, your vet is the one who can see Ming. I think you have to trust his judgement on this one (assuming you're happy with him and feel able to trust him, of course )

I'm sorry - I'm not really being much help here. My vets tend to go off observable data as much as possible, and only suggest any kind of testing that needs sedation if there is no alternative. As a result, I really am conflicted about the amount of testing some vets do....probably simply because its a little alien to me.

Columbine said:

It's encouraging that Ming's heart isn't any larger, and that there is no audible murmur. As to the echo - I'm really torn. Part of me says get it done soon so you have the clearest possible picture of what's going on. On the other hand, I don't like putting animals through lots of tests (especially since sedation is almost always necessary, and that carries its own risks). Its such a hard one to call. I think you have to ask what echo results will actually change in terms of medication and treatment. If the results wouldn't change treatment and day to day life then it would be far less important to me than if it would change the practical side of things. Ultimately, your vet is the one who can see Ming. I think you have to trust his judgement on this one (assuming you're happy with him and feel able to trust him, of course

)

I'm sorry - I'm not really being much help here. My vets tend to go off observable data as much as possible, and only suggest any kind of testing that needs sedation if there is no alternative. As a result, I really am conflicted about the amount of testing some vets do....probably simply because its a little alien to me.

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No thank you, this was helpful!! I didn't think to ask how treatment would change if I knew exactly what was wrong with his heart. 

He was at the vet ALL DAY yesterday from 8 am to 5:30 pm. They held him to await results and that day felt SO LONG. He didn't eat at all at the vet and pretty much stuffed his face the moment we got home and took the most peaceful nap, sprawled on his back on my bed. He is such a well-mannered cat and even though his stress doesn't show through aggression, I could tell he was pretty bummed to be "locked" up at the vet for so long. 

The vet didn't talk about sedation when doing the x-ray but the vet tech did and that freaked me out a little. Thankfully, he didn't need sedation. I also hadn't thought that an echo might need sedation as well. I'll keep that in mind to ask too!