And the second-guessing has begun....

I had my sweet kitty Gracie PTS on July 23 - a little more that 2 weeks ago now.  I'm torturing myself with questions, doubts, fueled by internet searches seeing as how her illness was still a mystery to all the different vets I took her to, seeking answers. In the URI thread, now closed, one poster suggested I get a culture, which I had already asked for, and then asked another 3 different times only to be told each time by different vets that it would do no good.  Could I have forced them to culture her?  Even if I had, would they have complied?  What would it have shown? When you are already scared and trying so hard to make all the right decisions and most cost-effective decisions, you tend to not want to rock the boat.  She even saw an internal medicine vet who said the same thing about the culture, although he did remove a small amount of hard black material from her left ear and put it under the microscope.  That result was negative for answers.  

The other day I entered a google search about URI's. I just had to do it.  One of the first things I came to was a brief article suggesting that if antibiotics had been tried without complete resolution of symptoms, a fungus might be suspected as the cause.  That torments me.  I had been giving her Forti-flora, a probiotic powder on her food opposite the antibiotic time during the first 2 months because she was on a broad-spectrum antibiotic called Orbax, which is known to kill off good as well as bad bacteria in the body, particularly the gut where, at least in humans, at least 75% of the immune system resides.  The good bacteria there are necessary for a well functioning immune system.  I had to ask for this because her main vet didn't think it was necessary even though he was the one who first put her on it and then a few weeks later on Azithromax.  

For better or for worse, I did not give Gracie her Forti-flora that last week, just trying something different than what I had done before.  Could that have caused a rapid decline?  

I also called the internal med vet's office and spoke with one of his techs.  I wasn't interested in starting an argument.  I just wanted to know why anti-fungal med wasn't tried.  She told me there were serious side-effects.  I'm sorry but that answer is just not sufficient.  I have a kitty named Nat who has seizures and is on phenobarb twice a day, which can cause liver enzyme elevations, yet they didn't hesitate to put him on that despite its side effects.  I am a nurse (I didn't inform that tech) and I already know that any and all medications on the market have side effects.  Like I said, I was not interested in starting an argument, but I was not at all satisfied with the answer. 

Maybe she would have suffered severe side effects, or maybe she might have gotten better, but the fact is we will never know now.  It wasn't tried.  It wasn't even offered.  In case you are wondering, each new vet I saw had the faxed records (X-rays/labs, exam findings and medication regimes) from the previous vets she saw, so it's not a case of not having all the information.

I realize no good will come of this because it's too late to save her now.  My mind is always asking questions.  I want to know, up to a point I guess, even if it hurts.  And it does.  View media item 290013
Here she is in happier times 4 years ago taking a sunbath above left with Nat, (her son) whose seizures are under control for the time being.  He loved his mama.  

I understand why you're trying to make sense of Gracie's death, but I really don't think it's helpful to torture yourself like this. It's very apparent that you loved Gracie wholeheartedly and did everything in your power to bring her back to health. You sought second opinions and put your faith in the professionals, which is the only thing to do.

My own cat, Cole, died in late June while undergoing tests - the vet made an initial diagnosis of feline infectious peritonitis, but Cole passed before the tests could rule out other conditions. His health had deteriorated rapidly in the 3 weeks before his death. Like you, I have loads of "what if?" thoughts rattling about in my head - but ultimately, this kind of mental anguish can't help our beloved lost animals. Your posts mark you out as being a compassionate and responsible animal lover who did your absolute best for Gracie. I really hope you find peace soon.  

Thank you Unfitcycler84 for your understanding and kind words. I'm so sorry about your kitty Cole! I am beating myself up for things I now wish I had done.  But all I can do with that information now is use it  to prevent it from happening again. I think the 5 stages of grief surely apply to pet loss.  One of the stages is anger and I'm in that stage right now.  While I'm sure I will come through it sooner or later, I still have to go through it.  It's only been 2 weeks now, and I'm still in shock mostly, expecting to see her when I get home, seeing the empty bowl, empty favorite nap spots, and just in general getting used to this awful "new normal" of her not being here with me anymore.  It takes time for this wound to close.  Peace will come, in time.  But now isn't that time.  

In happier times: Late Spring 2004 Gracie on my back porch, unaware I was taking her picture along with Baby Harry, very aware I was taking his picture!

I'm very sorry about Gracie. I do know of those second-guessing and rambling thoughts about what if or if only, the thing with those kinds of thoughts is that they are destructive, at the end of the day nothing more can be changed. You tried your very best to get her well but was not enough. You did what you thought was best for her, with the information you had,  you did not prolong her suffering anymore. You let her go, sometimes that is all that can be done. She is at peace, running free with all the cats that have gone before her, maybe she'll greet the ones that are to come. It doesn't get any easier but you do learn to live with being left behind.   I hope Nat does well with his health issues as well and comes to his own sort of terms with his mother's passing.

By the way, Gracie looked a lot like my long past kitty Boots.

I am so sorry about your sweet Gracie.  I know it is always hard and I think it is more difficult when there is an illness that vets aren't able to figure out.  I also understand torturing yourself with Dr Google, the internet is a wonderful thing but like all things in life it has a downside.  I can tell you to try to quit the second guessing and stay off the internet but I understand that is much easier said than done.  I hope you can find peace with what has happened.

You have to purposely  stop all those would haves - should haves, they have no purpose except to bring us pain and suffering. As much as we would like to, there is no changing what has already happened, believe me, I would do anything to change one day of my life.  But it won't happen and we are left to muddle through the rest of our lives the best we can. The internet is a dangerous place to go to after the fact, and even during a crisis. We always see and believe the worst scenarios, we rarely get helpful information that puts our minds at rest, there is just too much to take in and too many ways to apply it to our own  situations. You loved Gracie, and there is no way you would do anything but good for her.  Yes, we all make mistakes, we are after all not perfect, but you did what you thought was right and did it out of love. She knew that. Grief has all those stages, and you will go back and forth through them many times, but try not to torture yourself with what could have been, just celebrate that you knew this wonderful cat, and you shared your life and your love with her and she loved you back. Your pain is much too raw right now, it takes a long time to heal that hole in your heart. I'll pray for you both, I hope you find some comfort at this site and in your precious memories. Thank you for sharing your pain, sometimes it's easier to bear when you release some of it with others who understand, take care.........sweet Gracie, know you are greatly loved and try to comfort those who loved you in their dreams.

Thank you Nansiludie, Denice, and Di and Bob for your comforting words.  I lost my mom last year in July.  She was the closest person to me on this earth.  It's been hard living without her.  Losing Gracie the same month a year later has been hard too.  If I hadn't suffered the loss of my mom I'd probably handle Gracie's death a bit better.  I don't know. July has gotten sort of a bad reputation here lately.  I'm alone and have no one to vent to except this computer and the people on the other side of it.  It is very comforting to know I'm not truly alone and that so many of you are going through this now or have gone through this too and to read your comments to me and your stories.  

I'd like to say this though.  I really think that any "torturous" thoughts have potential to help as well as hurt.  There is a kernel of truth that can't be ignored.  Going forward, the best I can do now with that information is plan better for the future.  Until then, I have this wound.  It's draining all kinds of yucky stuff right now.  I could put a bandaid on it but that wouldn't help, it would only prolong it's healing.  I have to let it drain for right now.  Thank you for understanding this and letting me have the space to do it.  Thank you too that everyone has had my comfort in mind and geared their comments in that direction.  There are some message boards out there on the internet that are absolutely vicious.  They allow certain ones to mock your pain with very unkind uncaring comments. It seems their only intent is to hurt.  These sites are not moderated well, I suppose that goes without saying.  This site isn't that place, thank God.  

In time I will heal.  But right now I am in pain and it's just going to hurt.  Thank you for listening and letting me vent!

Ginny:  Condolences on the loss of Gracie, as well as your Mom.   I'm sure losing Gracie in the anniversary month of your Mom's passing is making this all the more painful for you. 

Having lost both my parents in the last few years, I know too well the pain and emptiness of loss, as well as the helplessness of wondering if more could have been done.   And when someday I have to deal with my cat Ruby getting ill, I know I'll be trying to do everything I can to help her.  

Time will lessen your pain, but meanwhile let the tears come.

Thank you rubysmama!  I"m so sorry for the loss of your parents.  Daddy died 24 years ago so now I too am parentless.  Loss is hard.  Funny as it may sound, I take comfort from the youtube videos of people losing their beloved pets.  I cry with them.  And on days when I am tempted to not release pent up tears, it helps so much to cry with someone, even if they are on a video.

Oh and by the way, Ruby is a very pretty girl!  I love ginger kitties.

Thanks Ginny.  You're right, loss is very hard, especially when both your parents are gone.   But losing a pet is just as hard, just maybe different.  And I do understand the crying with others while watching their Youtube videos, although for me it was reading message boards and blogs.  Sometimes you just need to cry to get rid of the pent up grief.

I also love ginger cats and was looking specifically for one when I found Ruby at the shelter. She is around 4 or 5 years old.  It will be 2 years in November since I adopted her and she's "Mommy's girl", as I tell her all the time!

Hi Ginny,

I am so very sorry for the loss of sweet Gracie. And for the pain you are feeling. I was and still am in your shoes...questioning, doubting, replaying everything in my head, internet searches (which is what I am doing now at 3am because it hit me like a tonne of bricks)...I lost my cat "Kitty" on March 24th and yes there have been many days and weeks being "fine" and then waves, huge tidal waves where I go through what you are experiencing now, being so fresh to you. Your loss is deep, beyond deep, and everything you are doing is understandable. I wish we all had "perfect" endings...where they passed peacefully, or said english human parting words, or never felt pain and suffering, or never had to have to awful last drives to the vet to end their life (tears). I wish I didnt think my cat was saying "why are you doing this mommy...I dont want to go! Take me home! Ouch, that needle hurts!" I mean...I just cant.

So, please know I suffer with you, even after a few months, and I am so sorry that you are experiencing this pain as well. You were a loving, perfect best friend and mom to your beautiful cat. God bless you during this time.

Hi Ginny, if it helps at all, know that through all of this, your questioning will make a difference in the future, with your current pet or pets. Heck, even with your own health, maybe even.

I'm sorry about your mother, I was there 25 years ago, lost both parents within a year when I was25 then six months later I had my cat PTS (who I was intensely bonded with and vice versa) after she was diagnosed with cancer as well. It hurt just as much to lose her as it did my parents, in its own way. I was numb for a long, long time.

Hoping this week brings you a little more peace with each passing day. You are not alone, know that.

Thank you LizzieBB and misterwhiskers for your kind words and thoughts about your honest struggles.  It does help to know I'm not alone in this, even though it feels that way sometimes.  I do hope all of us will one day be able to put these questions and answers to good use.  That's my goal, not to get stuck in a vortex of pointless bad grief where I just torture myself endlessly for no good reason.  I can't post more right now but will come back later when there's time.  Thank you LizzieBB for the purraise!

I lost one of my cats 10 weeks ago tomorrow (my profile kitty). She had cancer @ 7 yrs old (which 3 vets failed to diagnose or she would still be with us) - during surgery & after a 2 week stay & extensive amount of vet work - it was found her cancer was going to kill her that she would continue to suffer even with chemo (I honestly don't think she would have even lived to get test results back). The vet said the right thing to do would be not to even wake her up and just to let her pass on the table. She said she would wake her up if she wanted me to but that she would be in pain from the surgery and she would continue to deteriorate (which is hard to believe as she wasnt even 4 lbs - she lost 2 lbs in a month) I gave the OK to release her from her pain.

Even with a for sure 'there is no getting better' from a vet who came in on her days off to treat Alaska & also ended up paying for her cremation as a kind gesture (which is above & beyond)- I still tortured myself with googling feline lymphoma with survival rates, treatments, exc. I kept thinking 'maybe she could have gotten better'.

There is still guilt to this day as I feel I betrayed her (she never gave up & I told her that as long as she kept fighting I would too), lots of guilt as I didn't even think of being with her when she crossed (was too upset - I went home and slept for almost a day straight). Now, I have come to the realization that it was the only thing to do

It comes down to the fact that at least you tried, at least she didn't end up shot by some yokel, euthanized at a shelter or run over as a lot of cats are (speaking from the south), or allowed to suffer. She had an awesome home and you did your very best for her. Sometimes that just isn't enough but you should NOT beat yourself up about it!!!

I am sending lots of hugs your way, I know the awful feelings of guilt & what ifs & I know that what I type here isn't going to make you feel any better, but hopefully one day it will...

I am attaching a poem someone posted in the cat cancer group I am in.

Run free Gracie <3 <3 <3

Thank you Anne for sharing your story and encouragement.  I'm so sorry about your dear kitty.  I love your profile pic.  She looks so sweet.  OTOH, I am absolutely appalled at how common the words "3 vets failed to diagnose" are.  Gracie wasn't diagnosed correctly either and she saw more than three.  Sometimes I feel that vets don't try hard enough simply because they're just treating animals and they know they will get paid anyway so what does it matter?  I hope I am wrong about that.  Hopefully they aren't all that way.  I'm really angry right now.  To put things in perspective, I feel the same way about medical doctors too (I'm a nurse, btw.)

A little humor needs to be interjected here.  One of my favorite lines from a movie was from Overboard (Goldie Hawn), where she is speaking to the medical team who diagnosed her with amnesia: "Listen to me medical People!  Extend your brains a teensy bit!"  That very line was what I wanted to scream several times.  

But in the end she is gone and there's nothing more I can do for her.  I feel like once again, I let a loved one slip through my fingers because I wasn't strong enough to hold on.  I couldn't hold on to my mom either and I miss her so much.  But I didn't have a crystal ball. Like you, there are things I wish I could do over again.  One thing I don't regret is finding her and bringing her into my home.  In time things will change, but for right now I am angry and sad.  The poem was really sweet.  Thank you for sharing it.

Honestly, I learned the hard way that there are good vets and not good vets. I also learned that picking a vet who is animal specific (our new vet LOVES cats) is very important.

The other vets shrugged me off & took a ton of my $ (I spent $3k from Jan - May on her with the other vets) They told me maybe the other cats were eating her food or maybe she needed a dental. Of course that was all time that had she been diagnosed we could have been working on treating her.

The new vet, when she walked in, the first thing she did was touch her stomach & say she felt a knot and thought it was cancer. So simple yet none of the other vets cared enough to do it.

The vet called me every single day Alaska was there to let me know how she was doing - I cried every day & she every day told me she understood.

She came in after hours & on her days off to do various things for Alaska - she sent me a super nice card a couple weeks after she passed letting me know she wanted to do something nice for Alaska so she decided to pay for her cremation. She also 'typed' her own cat's blood & had her donate to Alaska.

Honestly, I had no idea before this episode that there was such a huge difference in vet care, but there is. The other vet's office (the one she saw not even 2 months prior to the day she was euth) one of the techs saw Alaska had died and said 'well at least you know what is wrong with her now' - I am sure the girl had good intentions but to say that to someone knowing you failed to diagnose the issue that caused her death? How dare they!

I haven't even gotten a bill from our new vet & she passed 10 weeks ago. When I picked up her ashes, the vet told me she would 'be fair' but she hasn't charged me a penny thus far. IDK if she will or not. I have tried to call payments in a couple of times but they tell me I still have the $ I paid as a credit and they will call me when she gets the bill figured up. I honestly am not sure she is even going to charge me for most of it, even tho she did do the work, used a ton of supplies & deserves $$.

Because of all of the above, I believe my mom (and hopefully others) are switching over to their vet clinic even tho it is 30 minutes farther than their current vet.

I wish we had found the vet a couple months earlier but it is what it is & now I know better.

Another example: My mom's dog passed a couple weeks prior to Alaska going in. Her vet didn't even bother to send a card. They also harassed her the last visit he had about $. Mom has used the same vet for 20 years, she has spent thousands upon thousands with him, the vet clinic has grown & now they only care about the almighty dollar, not the fact that the person's dog is dying & probably needs a bit of sympathy instead of being harassed about a $50 bill. It was so bad that mom ended up making the lady call the vet she has used for 20 years and having him tell them she could pay next time she came in. She was in tears already because her dog was going to die (was in heart failure & had had cancer for a year), yet they chose to harass her over $50????????

Disgusting to be honest.

MY vet on the other hand - keep in mind I was a brand new client - said she should keep Alaska the day I took her in, I asked if she wanted $$ for at least the visit that day, she said 'no'. The next day, when she had a better idea, started talking about transfusions, exc - I asked her how much it would cost, she said prob $300+ per transfusion - she said but don't worry about it, just make payments.  Honestly, if they charged me what they *should* it would be around $4,000. Yet they haven't even entered my bill. Quite obvious who really cares....

Sorry for my long post but I agree 200,000% with what you said above. I am sorry that Gracie never got the correct diagnosis. If  you lived here I could recommend a super awesome vet, but I have went thru 4 living here & this is the only one I found who seems to TRULY care about animals & want to help them. I never realized what a huge gap there is but there is I kind of lucked into finding our new vet, people had suggested them to me a couple times & I decided another opinion might be what is needed. I hope you can find a vet like ours - one who TRULY cares.

You still did all you could for Gracie - do not feel guilty, I know it is hard but it is not your fault.

I wish I had some awesome words of advice, but the truth is you just have to deal day by day.

& you are prob right about doctors too. Some care, some don't.

I am very sorry about your mom & don't feel guilty about that either!!! I think guilt is a regular mourning thing, but there are just things we have no control over & health/death is one of them. 

You didn't let them slip thru your fingers, it was their time to go. & I don't know you but I beg to differ about not being strong enough- it takes a very strong person to end the life of something they hold so dear & to do so selflessly. You did what you did for Gracie BECAUSE you are strong & because you did not want her to suffer & because you loved her enough to let her be at peace. I bet your mom wanted company & needed Gracie more than you did.....

Wow, Anne, come to think of it not one of Gracie's vets have sent a card, NOT ONE!  I've notified them all that she is gone, too.  Disgusting, but not really surprising.  Maybe while shopping around for a new vet I should have asked if each one had cats as pets or loved them.  I'm sure that makes all the difference in the world.  I would really like to have a vet like the one you've got now.  She's truly a needle in a haystack and a rare gem.  So glad you found her!  I live in dog country and there are plenty of people who hate cats here, they're so damned ignorant.  I hear it all the time it's so sickening. What's wrong with people?  

I'm so sorry about you and your mom's bad vet experiences.  Here's another thing:  they know not many people will sue them so that's another reason why they don't try so hard.  I so wished I'de screamed "Extend your brains a teensy bit!!"  to them.  Not that it would have helped.  But I don't think it would have hurt either.  

Thank you for your words of encouragement. 

I'm very sorry for your loss and everything you are going though.  Please be kind to yourself.  Gracie was, and still is, loved.  

Beautiful Gracie 

Thank you nurseangel and My4LLMA!