There is a fuzzy storm brewing...

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So, I need help with an ongoing and growing problem. Katherine is becoming more aggressive and more bold in her aggression. This not a problem that has happened before in my family with cats and thus is becoming a very personal and resenting problem to the humans in the house. Granted, part of the problem is likely that we don’t play with her enough. She is after all just 1ish years old and in the few short months we’ve had her seen her grow from awkward kitten size to full on cat sized. She’s a little ball of energy that loves, loves, loves to mouse things but the humans in the house are all adults if not older adults who just don’t have a ton of energy themselves. And granted, part of the problem is probably because when she began with her “love nips” and her biting/chewing while playing we didn’t knock it off right away. That said, it is an ever growing problem and I’m not here to play the blame game, I’m here to find a solution to correct behavior.

The first problem is between Katherine and my Father. He is if nothing else, very loving to that cat. He’s more than happy to play with the cat and is more likely to be the person who will play with the cat. When she wants attention or affection he’s usually more than happy to give it. The problem is he doesn’t like having aggression towards him that’s undeserved or provoked. Case in point: Katherine has begun hissing at him out of the blue. Like the other day she walked up to home across the couch. Tail up, life was good. She rubbed him with her cheek as if to say “hello” and “pet me” and she began sniffing him politely then suddenly hissed. I’ve seen her so this where she’ll rub hello and he’ll start petting then suddenly hiss. And he’s the ONLY one she does it to. The other day they were sanding in the front doorway inside the house. Dad walked over there to leave the house and Katherine followed him tail up. She rubbed on his shins for a moment acting cute and my dad talking to the cat said something around the lines of, “sorry you can’t come with me. No you can’t come with me” Then he says, “maybe it’s you who’s been in the house plants” and he points at her. All cutesy cat owner stuff. The moment he turns and points he her, she hisses. It’s killing their relationship because the moment she hisses he’s done. Cat gets pushed off the couch or pushed away, maybe even barked at “GO AWAY!” and we have no idea why she’s doing it. If it was play tmie and she hissed we’d know enough was enough, back off, she’s over stimulated or otherwise bothered. But this is her, initiating attention and affection and going from friendly to hiss and zero flat. Many of the times without even being touched.

She’s now begun to lose favor with me as well. I want to point out, my heart bleeds for this cat. When I’m eating string cheese and she taps me politely for it, that’s cute. When she’s tired of waiting and starts trying to take it away from me with her claws, it’s annoying but I might give her a piece. The other day she was doing that thing where she rubs against my shins and it’s hard to walk because she’s always too close to me. I leaned forward to grab a key off the wall and accidently stepped on her foot. She screamed and ran behind the couch, and my heart just dropped. Getting the mail was no longer important. I tried to come to her to make sure she was okay and no serious damage was done but every time I got close she ran away. The fact she ran and hid from me just made my heart sink further. I finally managed to reluctantly coax her out with some yummies. I made sure she was physically okay, and her tail went up and she rubbed against me again. She wasn’t in a foul mood anymore. Anyone who’s own a small cat or dog has probably had a similar experience. I use it as an example to point out I do care about this animal deeply.

There are times though when she’s become overly aggressive towards me. For examples sometimes I’ll pick her up and she’ll growl. More to the point she’s really quick to bite. And not just bite, but chew on me. If she does a bite and hold, I can’t move my hand or arm or it causes her to try and chew to reassert her hold. I’m basically at her mercy when she does this. And I’ll always start fine. I’ll be petting her and she’ll suddenly nip me. If I move, it becomes gnawing. Or she’ll be following me around the house and I’ll reach down to say hello and she suddenly bites me. She’ll be in a window and I’ll pet her a few times and suddenly I’m bitten. When she’s playful I’ll throw the mousie a few times. If I grab a mousie too closer to her, suddenly I’m now prey. Last night I finally couldn’t take it. I barked at her. Shut her out of my room for the night. And this morning during breakfast I wouldn’t let her on my lap and I didn’t give her any treats. I wanted nothing to do with her.

So how do we put a lid on the aggression?  when it comes to me, i'm moderately okay with being gnawed on. If she hits my limit like she did last night i'll just ignore her, shut her out, and not interact with her. My MAIN concern is the hissing at dad. Dad has a pretty zero tolerance attitude towards such things and he's far more likely to bark loudly at a cat or throw a hat at it to get it to leave the room he's in. It's his house and he wants to make sure it's own that it's his house. I'd like to put a stop to all aggression but at the very least i need to end the hissing.

Hi again. I'm sorry to hear you're having problems with Katherine again. I think part of the problem is simply her age - she's a teenager in human terms, and is simply looking to push as many boundaries as she can. It's almost as if she's asking "Are you SURE that I'm not the boss yet?"

With your dad and the hissing - it sounds like the pattern is always sniff first, then hiss. If I'm right, then it's simple - Katherine's smelling something she finds worrying/objectionable/unfamiliar on you dad and is simply reacting to that smell - not your dad at all. In short - its nothing personal, so the simplest thing to do is ignore the behaviour. Once your dad understands its not to do with HIM he should find it easier to accept.

Now for you - you need to set a very clear line - ANY touching of your hands when you're eating is unacceptable. If you allow tapping, then claws will surely follow. By all means, treat Katherine once you're done eating, but teach her that ignoring the food is what gets the reward. If tapping/clawing gets her what she wants, then she has no reason to stop doing it - it works, after all!

I would suggest that playing games where you're trying to retrieve a toy from her is a very bad idea, and is only going to reinforce her view of hands as prey. If you want to play throwing games with her,work with two toys - throw the second toy, and retrieve the first while she's chasing the second. It's the only safe way to do it.

She's well within her rights to growl when you pick her up. 'Read' her before going in for a cuddle like that. Growling is her way of saying "I don't want to be picked up right now". Sure, there are a few occasions (vet visits etc) when you have no choice, but the rest of the time respect her wishes. She's entitled to not want to be picked up.

When she bites you when she's looking out of the window its either because you've taken her by surprise or because she's looking at something that's getting her worked up - it's simple re-direted aggression, albeit a very mild version of it.

Biting when you reach down to pet her is play aggression - she's in the mood for hunting, not cuddling. The more you learn to read her, the less this will happen.

I think your method of disciplining her by shutting her out (physically and emotionally) is really confusing her, and this confusion will be contributing to the problems you're having. Cats need consistency, and they have to know where they stand. Insecure cats are far more likely to act out, and you're creating an increasingly insecure cat with these methods.

[article="22328"][/article][article="29673"][/article][article="32390"][/article][article="32493"][/article][article="29678"][/article]

Columbine,

                   Thank you again for responding and helping out Katherine and I. It's much appreciated. And I know I only reach out tot his blog when there's trouble brewing. There are good things that happen in the middle periods I assure you. Katherine's got a home and she's not going anywhere. Everyone loves her if even we get frustrated with her. I'll have to look over some of your links when I get home and have a free minute.

       The thing with Dad. I'm not sure what to say there. Honestly you hit the same reaching i had first time I saw it. Maybe dad had been somewhere. I mean she's always polite and affectionate and seemingly from nowhere it's hiss. Only hitch in our thinking is dad works at a lab calibrating electronic test equipment for the military. The lab has to be super clean and maintain certain temperatures and such. As far as I know other than distilled water and rubbing alcohol there's no chemicals he touches at work that would be of a concern. He's usually using a multi meter or on a keyboard typing up a spreadsheet. When he's not at work, he's home so he goes the same places the rest of us do, has the same soaps and detergents the rest of us do. So it's just weird. If he is picking up a smell, no one knows where.

         The biting happens a lot. If you touch her while she's cleaning, pet her, throw toys for her, she bites. And she doesn't just nip like a polite "nope", but she bites and holds, or bites and chews to reassert her hold on you. you have to let her calm down and she'll slowly release. I'll be honest i'm reluctant to pet her or play with her. if no matter what i do i end up with fang why bother. I don't have a pet or a companion i've got a tiny room mate that i have to pick up after.

          I think part of the frustration here is the old stick and carrot thing. These are simple people who are used to the stick and carrot system of reward and punishment. Obviously everyone is worried of too much stick. But from all the forums and the reading, it's looking very much like catdom is something that's absolutely no stick, but all carrot. Like the food thing. I'm supposed to make sure she knows that tapping me doesn't get her food. So what do i do? Do i push her off? so i spray her? Do i have to immediately give her a treat so she doesnt' become impatient? it becomes worrying that all we're supposed to do is reward her, if even just for other behaviors. at that point it becomes worrysome that she might not fully understand what we're rewarding her for. I can see where if she comes to me while eating and i give her a treat so she doesn't bug me, all she's going to learn is that if she wants a treat come to me. if i don't dish fast enough, she'll take it in the form my food. She's not learning what NOT to do, just another way of getting what she wants. Or the hissing thing. I don't see ignoring it flying with dad. and i certainyl don't see any form of rewarding her after doing it flying. there's got to be an appropriate stick.

I feel your frustration, and your pain.      Columbine has given you very relevant links there, some of which will explain a little more the carrot and stick thing including how sometimes the stick for our cats is not what we might think it is.  Your love and care for Katherine comes across loud and clear, and it hurts when cats seem not to want our love.   One thing you are doing right is to stay still and calm when she does bite and attack, this is very important and a strong starting point to things improving.

The not being anything personal is something to keep reminding yourself every time Katherine responds to one of you with her biting or aggression.  One thing your descriptions make me think is that this young cat does want your attention and loving but she is still learning about everyone and she seems anxious as well as having a high play drive.  Like when your father pointed at her when talking about the plants.  Pointing can seem like a big threat to some cats who are not used to this, as can any movement towards them.  Hand movements towards them, even when they have been invited can be scary.  Asking for attention and coming up for it is one thing, getting used to people touching is a different thing and she sounds like she is on high alert when she is doing this and not sure if your contact will turn in to something nasty so she acts first and defends her self.

To try and avoid the scuffles, bites and scolds:

Offer a flattened palm held out to her slowly so she can come closer to you and rub against you.

Keep stroking and touching to short times, perhaps just one or two strokes before you slowly withdraw your hand - any rapid or jerky movements can seem aggressive or initiate play for her.

Let her rub against you when you are standing up but try to resist moving in to stroke her back.  If you do, simply offer your hand as above and move very smoothly and slowly.

The problem with the 'stick' so to speak, is that the punishment has to be instantaneous for the cat to connect it with the action. Even as little as 2 seconds late (and, lets face it, we're very unlikely to be able to react that fast) and it becomes meaningless. That is why positive reinforcement is pushed so much as the best way to go. It's all about making the 'right' choice as easy as possible so that the cat is more likely to make the right decision and get rewarded for it. The only reaction we can really give fast enough is a vocal one - its easy to praise as they do the right thing, and to say 'no' or 'uh-uh' warningly when they do the wrong thing. Its important that any vocal reprimand is calm but firm/stern. Shouting or screaming is only going to create fear. Think about when you were a kid at school - the teachers you gave the most respect to were the ones who kept their cool, didn't scream and gave plenty of praise and recognition when you got things right - as well as firm corrections when you messed around.

You don't reward things like hissing, but getting mad will only make things worse. You have to understand the WHY of the situation before you can begin to change it. Cats just DON"T hiss for no reason. Until you can pinpoint the cause, you can't easily change the behaviour. It could be a smell, a gesture, a look, a tone of voice, but you can't say that Katherine isn't allowed to say she's worried by something - and that's ALL she's doing. Period.

With her begging - just tell her 'No' calmly but firmly each time she tries it. Don't give her any food until 1 - you're done eating and 2 - she's stopped focusing on the food. Hide it in your hand if necessary to facilitate this in the early stages. She's a bright little thing - it won't take her long to work out that ignoring the food is the only way she'll get any. Consistency is key here, as with any kind of behaviour modification.

I hope you can make sense of this. There is a way through it all, but none of it is instant. Quick fix solutions only create bigger problems in the long run.

Did you look over the link (s) Columbine posted above? I will repost one of them that also has go-to links inside of the article as well. This will help you tremendously. http://www.thecatsite.com/a/the-dos-and-donts-of-cat-behavior-modification Sorry to hear you are having some issues with Katherine!!!

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So I’ve been meaning to write back on this issue for some time and everything just hasn’t worked out yet to accommodate that. I did glance over the links provided briefly. I want to look at them in more depth (including looking at some other links on the same subject) this weekend when I’m off work. The bittersweet part of a cat is a lot like having kids in that it’s always going to be a process. There are no quick fixes or one time only solutions. Sometimes the fact it’s a continual process and takes lots of time if a good and fun part. Sometimes it’s not. You take both though. Why? Because my mouser of a carpet shark Katherine is by far the most amazing and personable cat around today. If you don’t believe me just ask her.

Our problem hit a certain degree on Sunday, causing me to post my post and to ignore Katherine. When you think about it, I only get a few hours with Katherine every day. A few hours before work, a few after. I spend most of my day at work and most of my night sleeping. So ignoring Katherine is only a few hours. She spent Monday while I was home making several attempts to get my attention to much purposeful failure. Like begging to food, trying to get on my lap, rubbing up against me, throwing her shoulder into my leg. All unsuccessful. Eventually she would give up and leave. Tuesday morning she made a few more attempts, but gave up a lot earlier and just slowly walked off. I came home Tuesday afternoon and she seemed in a slum. Just lying in a chair in the dining room, or on the back of a chair in the living room, or laying in mom’s lap. Cats are infamous sleepers and loungers, however Katherine is a pretty active cat. And there was just something about how she positioned her head and looked out into the world around her that seemed sad. If cats can even feel sad.

Well early in the evening she made one sort of halfhearted attempted to get my attention before slowly walking off and sitting back in a ball on a chair. Head down but not sleeping. Finally she came up to me later in the evening while I was sitting on the couch. She threw her shoulder into me in that affectionate attention getting way cats do. However unless previous times where she’d continue this or similar procedures to frustration or result she did something different. I still blew her off and ignored her as she threw her shoulder into me. However after doing so she turned around and sat on the arm of the couch in that polite, good girl, book end manner cats do with her bottom down and her head up tall. She let out a small meow before looking down at her toes and reaching out with one paw just tapped my shoulder lightly twice. Well I figured this was going to be the best apology I’d get from her so I immediately acknowledged her existence and began to pet her. She seemed very happy and enjoyed some lap time with me.

Since then Katherine seems to be in good spirits. I’ve been sneaking her a small chunk of string cheese in the morning or ham I use in my lunch.  Over the last few days we’ve had several sessions of lap time. She’s been very affectionate and I’ve been returning it when she asks and is willing. She’s been very social and I haven’t seen her in that sad ball. I’ve made a little bit of a better effort to play with her after work for a bit. She’ll chase that mousie until she’s out of air and panting. It’s a two way street though. So while she’s bathing I don’t touch her. That’s her time. And when we play I don’t play with my hands anymore. I’m more than happy to play with the mousie but my hands don’t directly rough house. If she’s all worked up over play and at that point where anything near her is munchable, I’ll grab a mousie for her to chew so she won’t just chew my hand. Also when petting and socializing if she seemed bothered or about to nip I move my hands and stop doing whatever is going on. Give her time to settle. She even went into my room and socialized a bit which she for some reason hasn’t done since leaving kitten mode/size a few weeks ago for cat mode/size. So the last few days have been good.

It sounds like you're getting much better at reading each other Great to have such a positive update!

Just a note on the ignoring thing - i know its only a few hours altogether, but the point is that to her, you're giving zero attention for what sounds like AT LEAST 24hrs. That's really not good for her, and will end up making her worse if you continue with this form of 'discipline'. It's a surefire way to create an overly (and inappropriately) needy and insecure cat, and insecure cats will either exhibit aggression and/or inappropriate urination and/or become totally withdrawn. I'm sure you don't want to deal with any of these issues - that's why we're urging you not to continue with the avoidance.

It really does seem like simply being more aware of her mood/energy and stopping all hand play has got you back on track :big thumb: Hopefully, you won't feel the need to discipline her in the future. She's definitely a very special girl who knows she's got it good!

It sounds like you have had some positive days here which is great!  A mix of play time and lap time without signs of aggression suggests you are picking up her signals more and that Katherine is clearer about what you are doing as well.   I hope the fun and lap time continue. 

I was a bit worried reading your update in case you were taking the ignoring bad behaviour to mean you should ignore her for prolonged periods until she behaved in positive ways for you to reinforce - I hope not as that would almost certainly result in a bored and sad cat which was kind of what you thought she looked like.   If ignoring undesirable / unwanted behaviours this is a very short term ignore which the cat can associate with a specific behaviour while they are doing it - then almost as soon as the behaviour has stopped you quickly move on and return to regular patterns of behaviour.  They will not associate things more than a more than a few seconds apart and certainly not after a few minutes have gone in between.  You have to respond quickly and then repeat as and when necessary.   Eg cat bites, you stay still and don't do anything to get their interest.  As soon as they stop biting and move on you carry on with something else.  If they bite again you go still and ignore them again.  Repeat as many times as necessary.  When the cat is being well behaved you play, pet, chat away or what ever, when they bite you do nothing to stimulate or reward them but when the behaviour stops so does your ignoring otherwise they will have no idea what it's about.  

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Thanks Columbine. Like I said, she’s an ongoing project. One of the things she and I have been doing lately is going for walks. She’s chipped, and she’s got a harness and a leash. We stroll around the backyard for a bit and she seems to enjoy sniffing everything and chasing small bugs. It’s not my biggest thrill but I do it because it makes her happy. Even if putting on the harness doesn’t. And remember she’s not alone all day. I mean yeah, in a 24 hour period I personally am only with her and conscious about 6-8 because I work 8 hours and I sleep about 8 hours. Same for dad. But she’s got mom all day long. And while mom isn’t one for throwing mousies, she is always around so Katherine isn’t alone and someone more than willing to be a lap or pet her. In fact the two of them have sort of bonded. When Katherine first got home she liked my room, ran to me, hid behind me, slept with me,  and hung out in my room. Honestly over the last few weeks as she’s molded into full on cat size I’ve noticed she follows mom around the house. She never sleeps with me anymore, doesn’t run to me or hide behind me. She really only lays it on thick to me in the mornings when she wants some cheese, or in the afternoons when she wants a mousing buddy. Aside from that she’s very comfortable now spending her time either in a window or on mom’s lap cleaning.

It's great that you're taking her for walks. Its a wonderful way of draining some energy and letting her do her cat-thing for a while. I'm glad to hear she's bonded well with your mom too. I'm sure that's simply because you're out a lot - animals have a way of bonding to the person who's around the most.

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Kind of an off topic, but I wanted to make sure I touch base on the subject. I know I haven’t really been using the forum thus far as a social connection. Making friends, checking in regularly, and posting regularly. Partly because of time and partly because I’m not sure how. So for the most part I’ve been using the forum as a resource for addressing and getting feedback on problems as they arise. Something that’s been very wonderful for me and is something I’m very appreciative of. Unfortunately this limited exposure to the world if Katherine can mean that the only glimpses people see are negative ones. I wanted to take a moment to let you all know that Katherine is by no means a negative experience and to share some positive time about her.

Since the issue of this thread as mentioned earlier Katherine has “apologized” to me. In response I’ve made it a bigger effort to play with her more. Particularly at least once a day if not more. Her favorite toy is a mousie we’ve placed on a long string attached to a stick. When she wants to play she’ll sit in front of it, or even tap it. She seems to enjoy chasing it around the house into various rooms and across furniture. I’ve learned that she can’t do the same routine with the mousie. So I can’t run into the same room to start every day or she loses interest. I’ve also learned something it’s not high speed that’s good but mental thought. Like dragging the mousie into my room and then having it “jump” into a clothes hamper so she has to figure out how to get it out. I’ve learned that in my play with her I have to let her win a few times. She has to catch the mousie. It’s not fun unless she can catch it. But don’t just put it in front of her face. Too easy isn’t fun either. And I make sure when she starts panting heavily that we take a break for a few minutes.  Most importantly that a break doesn’t mean playtime is over. She gets frustrated and pouts if I stop too quickly.

In our play I’ve also made it a better effort to make sure my hands and fingers are not a intended target. Though from time to time she still tries to take a nip. Sometimes she’s overly enthused into play, sometimes she wants to initiate play, sometimes she’s just doing something else and doesn’t want to be bothered. For the most part, moving the hands far away and/or replacing with a mousie seems to work. She needs to chew something and that seems to make her happy.

Katherine’s attitude towards me at least has changed lately too. She’s become increasingly affectionate. She loves to sit near me, rub up against me, come up to be stroked. When she’s really into it she’ll even ask for the face to be rubbed. Believe it or not I’ve actually heard her purr! More times this last few weeks than I have since we brought her home. And I think I’m figuring out the differences between her various meows and calls. Sometimes if you pet her when she’s on the back of a chair, you can see her little toes stretch and curl a few times. When she’s in this mood you can get your face close to her and she’ll lick you and back to purring.

We’ve also successfully taught her to be patient for food. If she wants your cheese, she won’t reach for it. Not anymore. Using treats we’ve taught her to sit. She’ll sit both on command, and when she just wants it. So if I hold a treat up if she really wants it she’ll just sit on her own. If she needs to be invited all you have to say is sit and she will. As for the cheese, she won’t grab at your food anymore. If she wants it, she’ll come up to you and just sit.

Lastly her sleeping habits have changed. She’s begun sleeping at the foot of my bed again. It’s been several weeks since she’s done this as she’s taken more of a shine to my mother. I also noticed downstairs in the recliner, she’ll sleep on my lap. Once she did it, rolled over, and slept on her back all 4 feet in the air. On the couch I was laying down and she got on top of me. She didn’t sit on me, she laid down on her side. Eventually she relaxed and fully on her side, head down, she fell asleep and started dreaming. Slowly as she slept she even rolled to her back. I’m taking this as a sign that’s she’s super comfortable with me. She’ll still rather sit on my mother to groom, if she wants to be loved or fall asleep she seems to come to me. I’ve also noticed that while she still wakes my mother up at 4:30 for her morning can, she’s begun to wake me up at 5 to get a few minutes of playtime in before work. I woke up to a cold wet nose nuzzling my hand and a meow.

It's so great to hear that Katherine's doing so much better, and that her bond with you is growing stronger again. She sounds like she's growing up to be a real sweetie. Thanks for the positive update

Thanks. I'm not sure what Katherine does during the day, but I'm told she waits for me. I have noticed that when i leave in the mornings she goes tot he upstairs window, and in the afternoons she's downstairs when i come home. It's a quirky little cat but we all love her to death.