SubQ fluids question

Hi, maybe this has been asked before, but...
I had to take my 17 year old to the vet yesterday. Turns out he has renal disease. I wasn't ready to give up without trying medication and new food, especially since he had been so active early yesterday morning. Anyway, the vet prescribed a few medicines and fluids. Ever since I gave him the last bit of fluids, he isn't walking around much. He has the pockets of fluid under his armpits. I wonder if this could be the reason he's not walking around. He's been eating the new food, almost a can in the last 12 hours. I also wonder if he's a little angry because of the vet visit and the car ride there (the nearest vet is more than 2 hours away).
I am just wondering if I should be concerned about him not moving much or whether this is normal after such a stressful 24 hours.
Thank you.

We gave our cat fluid treatments for a long time, and the little pouch went many places, but it should get absorbped fairly quickly... I mean not in one or two hours, but by the end of the day.  you didn't mention how much fluid your cat is getting at one time. We had to decrease the initial dose of fluids the vet started her on because it was just too much.  Adding the fluids can make her body work harder to process them, and too much fluid is hard on the heart.  Our vet taught us how to administer the fluids ourselves, we bought the supplies from her and gave them at home so we could do less, more often.  Once alex got used to it, it was a one person job. I won't say she liked it, but she knew it would make her feel better and she just let us do our thing.  If you have someone to help you, it should not be too hard.

Hope your kitty feels better... I know that sounds a little silly since what she is diagnosed with is fatal, but our cat refused to give up just cuz the vet said she was dying and we had a lot of quality time together after she started the fluids... hang in there!

Thank you so much. I'm giving him 120 ml twice a day and find it a lot easier than giving him the liquid meds in a medicine dropper, actually. I thought it seemed like a little too much, as he drinks a ton. Personally, I used to think he was a diabetic because of the amount he drinks. But apparently he is not flushing out enough proteins.
I thought I would ask, seeing as until late yesterday morning he was always fairly active for an 'old man'. Today, he seems to not want to move much, but after the stress of yesterday I wasn't sure if it was the renal disease getting worse or all the changes and stress. I guess I will wait and see what the rest of the day and weekend brings.
And thank you for the well wishes. I know at his age it happens sooner rather than later anyway. I figured as long as he isn't suffering or in pain, I should give him a chance.

I know just what you mean.  Our vet wanted us to put our cat down for the last year of her life, but I tell you the truth, until the last week, she wasn't ready to go, and for being old and with all her issues, she had a pretty good quality of life.  She enjoyed walks, cuddling, would always greet me at the door when I got home from work, had food preferences that she enjoyed and would ask for, or that she would refuse to eat... The vet talked my daughter into going ahead with the euthanasia, and she made an appointment.  It was her cat, and though I wasn't against it, I was leaving the choice with her.  On the day of the appointment, the cat disappeared.  We live in an apartment and she is strictly an indoor cat - but she found a place, and my daughter missed the appointment.  I have to add that we had discussed it and she had decided not to go through with it, but the cat knew... One day we wanted to talk about so we left the cat in the living room and went back to my daughters bedroom clear on the other end of the apartment and not even 5 minutes later, here came the cat beating the door down.  When she finally succumbed, it was her decision.  She quit taking any food or fluids and she got so weak she had to meow to be taken to the litterbox... but she died at home with us and this was what she wanted.  Through out that last year though, she had her ups and downs.  She had several bouts where we thought that as it, but she rallied...Our cat drank tons too, and her litter box was constantly soaked through.  the vet started her on 150 mil and then wanted to up it to 200 mil, we dropped down to 100 mil, at first once a week, and then towards the end twice a week.  I am by no means a vet, vet tech or anything like that, but want to offer up that the objective is to make him feel better, and if he is feeling worse after, then I don't see the harm in trying a lesser amount. You can always increase it again.  This is a lot easiser to do if you are able to do the fluids at home.  We could always tell when Alex needed them.

I know when he starts showing that he is suffering, I will be able to make the right decision. Now that I know the symptoms of the final stages of renal failure, I am positive my other cat who passed last April at age 19 was suffering from this condition, and I never want another cat to go through that again. But my old baby hasn't reached that stage yet, at least I don't think he has. So I decided that I'd treat it to see if that helps. I'd have not known he was suffering from RD if he hasn't become constipated yesterday and was vomiting from straining. I'm not sure if that's a symptom of the final stages; the vet was more concerned about the blood test results.
I'm hoping that he becomes his old self (what he was like prior to yesterday) again, but if not, at least I know I didn't give up without trying something.

I have a cat with kidney disease, and she is my 3rd one .  I'm curious as to what medication you are giving your guy with an eyedropper?   We give our old girl antacids every other day for that early morning frothy throw-up, and sub-q fluids twice a week(150 each time) , and that's it, besides trying to feed her foods that are lower in phosphorus.  I think she was diagnosed about two years ago and she's still hanging in here.  She'll be 16 in January.

Anyway, if you have not seen this website yet, this is my "go to" for anything kidney related:  http://www.felinecrf.org/index.htm   I probably refer to it at least a couple times a week, if not for people here at TCS, then for myself .  It's a handy little website to save as a favorite.

The vet put him on lactulose, as he was so constipated, he was vomiting almost non-stop yesterday morning (which is why I took him to the vet in the first place). From personal experience, I know that stuff is revolting, and I couldn't imagine having to take it and not knowing why. 

The vet also prescribed Azodyl, a probiotic. Apparently, it helps reduce toxins in the body, which helps the kidneys out. It came in capsule form. Because I wasn't sure if he'd eat his new food (he is the pickiest cat I've ever had and wouldn't even eat chicken or turkey that we used to give them on holidays), I decided to dissolve the contents in water and use a medicine dropper to feed him the medicine. Now that I know he'll eat the food, I will try to mix it with his food. If he does refuse to eat it, then at least I have the medicine dropper option.

I am still slightly concerned, seeing as he seemed to be ready to have a bowel movement, but unable to get it out and now has diarrhea, but that is common in humans that take lactulose and probiotics, so possibly common with cats?!? 

I am letting him relax by himself at the moment, keeping the dogs away from him. But the last time I went to check on him, he had gone from one area of the bed to another, and had eaten more, so hoping that is a sign that his meds are working.

Thank you for the link.

Almost all kidney cats suffer from constipation, since dehydration comes with the territory .  I hate lactulose too, mainly because it's just so darned sticky, and after awhile, it seems to stop working anyway, so with our last kidney cat, we discovered using Miralax, and with our NOW kidney cat, that's what we use. It has absolutely no taste and doesn't gel up like some of those type of products.    I just give her some twice a day, every day, to keep her regular.  With our Vet's approval, of course.  I just mix 1/8th teas. with a little bit of water, then mix that into a small amount of food to make sure she gets it, then I give her more food, with added water.  I always add water to her food, along with having a fountain for her to drink from.

I don't feed my old girl kidney food, nor do I give her any kidney supplements, as she rejects any food with them in it, and she has the jaws of a pitbull, so giving her anything via pill or syringe is OUT.  We have to give her her antacid via injection .  THOSE she doesn't mind.  And we have to give her her appetite enhancers via transdermal gel.    Plus, I have found that feeding her 6 - 7 small meals throughout the day help immensely, AND she gets treats during the night.  I keep different treats under my pillow in a ziploc baggie.  She changes what she likes, so I have different types, ranging from Authority to dehydrated raw treats.   what I wouldn't give a a good nights sleep   Oh, the things we do for our furkids

How is your cat doing today?

He seems to be up and around more today, teasing the dogs, and eating. I am surprised at how quickly he's eating the kidney food; it's like he isn't the huge fusspot I thought he was for the last 17 years. I hope this is a good sign. When I sent my mother a video of him up and around, she thought he looked a lot better than he had in about a year, since his kitty brother first became sick with GI issues.

However, after 3 days of taking the fluid injections without so much as a sound, he laid down about half way through the 60 ml and rolled onto his back. When I tried again, he kept pulling away so I let him go. I'll try again tonight. He ate all his probiotics with no issue, but that lactulose... I really can't blame him. I do have Miralax in the house and was told by another vet that it was safe for my other cat, so I may try that.

I realize that just treating his symptoms won't cure him, but compared to Friday, he almost seems like his old self. My stress is definitely lessening.

Well, that's good to hear! Teasing the dogs, eating more are great signs. (How is the pooping? vomiting? hope the latter has decreased, etc. ...)

He's sure to feel a bit more lethargic as the subQ fluids "soak into him". Sometimes that pocket of extra fluids under the skin feels a bit weird, or so I imagine, and he's probably saying to himself, "Boy, I feel weird". When I had to give my cat subQ fluids last year, the fluid pocket under her skin would hang out right under her armpit and she hated that. But the 100-150 ml of fluids she needed at the time were so helpful to her! It's probably important you try to give the full dose of fluids into him that your vet is asking of you.

I did cut down the lactulose Friday night after a little diarrhea, and now he seems to have normal bowel movements. And I've only cleaned up one little puddle of vomit, which was full of fur (he's really been grooming himself again since yesterday morning). 

I have a neighbour who said he'd come over to help give kitty fluids if I need it. Think I may take him up on the offer. I called the vet Friday afternoon, seeing as I didn't remember being told how long he'd recommended the fluids on a daily basis. He told me that I should try to give fluids daily until tomorrow, but if I only got 50 ml in, it would be ok. I am determined to get the full 60 ml in tonight. I think my kitty sees that it stresses me out a little, which probably doesn't help (I can't even watch needles being given on TV) and this morning was bad. I'm a lot less stressed this evening. I'm hoping it goes much better.

Thank you for all the help. It is very much appreciated.

I think just seeing how much better he's feeling should help with YOUR stress level.  Tell yourself you're not hurting him with the sub-qs, your HELPING him .  It's absolutely true! .  My girl doesn't get lethargic with her fluids....she just walks kind of lopsided .  And I just ask her if she's ready for her "fill up"?  (she never is, but she takes it anyway )

Do you warm the fluids first? What size needle are you using? You can also try freezing the needle. This will help with the sting of the stick.
I also found it helpful if I just went to her, wherever she was laying, instead of moving her to where I wanted to do the fluids. I ended up hanging hooks in 7 different places all around my house :lol3: but it made her more comfortable!

The first few nights, I was afraid to sleep, just in case something happened. But I slept much better last night, which my kitty obviously sensed. He was much calmer and took about 56ml (I couldn't get the last 4 ml in for some reason). I may see if I can get a smaller gauge needle, seeing as the vet tech gave me 20g. This seems a little big. I may try freezing the needles, to see if that helps. I am happy that after today, the vet suggested that I only give the SubQ 3x a week, to see how well he does and adjust it accordingly.

Last night, I picked kitty up before giving him his fluids and held, talked to, and pet him until he was calm. He did very well with the needle. I did the same this morning, again it worked well. I think he understands that I'm not trying to hurt him and knows that he feels better afterwards, so it definitely helped with my stress. Let's hope it helps tonight

Smaller needles will make the fluids intake become a slower process. I suppose it depends on how long your cat will stay still and comfortable for the process.

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(I've not heard of freezing needles before - what would be the goal of this? I am uninformed on that...)

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Glad to hear you experienced calmer time of giving fluids last night! yay!

I wouldn't worry about a few mls less or more, if the exact 60 ml doesn't get inside him - the vet just wants your ballpark figure to be 60ml.

The vet told me that if he didn't get 10 or 20 ml, not to worry, that anywhere near that would be beneficial. I was worried at first, but he seems to be doing much better than he has for a few months. That, to me, is a great sign. 

PushPurrCatPaws said:

(I've not heard of freezing needles before - what would be the goal of this? I am uninformed on t

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Freezing the needle helps reduce the sting.

crimmie said:

Freezing the needle helps reduce the sting.

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Hm. This intrigued me so I googled it... because the idea feels counter intuitive to me (putting an ice cold metal against and into a warm & wet body? All I can think is, OWIE, and it makes me recall that kid in The Christmas Story who got his tongue stuck on a frozen pole!)

Anyway, I see a brief reference at Tanya's site for this idea, mentioning a plastic surgeon's human 'study'. I suppose freezing the needles is a personal choice, but I'd be reluctant myself to do this. Not sure if the needle would remain sterile - this would be my concern personally (besides my conjecturing brain fixating on the above Christmas Story example, lol)

The needle is sterile until you open it.
I compare it to using an ice cube to numb your ear before you pierce it yourself