End stage kidney disease-when to euthanize

mrsgreenjeens · Aug 2, 2015

So glad he's feeling better. It would be really good, though, if you could find a nutritionally complete food for him to eat, rather than the Greenies. Or maybe they are? Not sure WHICH Greenies you are feeding, and I see some of them have added Vitamins and Minerals.

I have a kidney cat too,and know how difficult it is to get them to eat. With my old girl, I feed her 6 - 7 small meals per day, plus treats through the night (I keep them under my pillow in a small ziploc bag) With her meals, I offer up a smorgasbord of food, 1st meal may be .75 oz of Sheba Beef, followed immediately by .5 oz of Pinnacle Chicken and Tuna If I'm lucky, she might eat a total of 1 oz of what was offered. then about 2 .5 hours later, I'll offer up another meal, maybe .85 oz of either something she had earlier, if she liked something pretty well, or something else...maybe Wellness Beef, Venison and Lamb. Then about 3 hours another small meal, and so on. I DO try to keep the phosphorus low, using this food chart: http://www.felinecrf.org/canned_food_usa.htm#canned_usa. Sometimes I find a food that she really likes,though, and the phosphorus is outrageous. You know what? I feed it to her anyway! Per our Vet...getting her to eat is more important than anything else, so if she likes something, she gets it. Our Vet figures since we switch up her food so often, the low phos food with average out the higher phos food. And our girl is still with us after at least 2 years with kidney disease, so I guess it's working.

msaimee · Aug 2, 2015

I keep free standing dry food out all day--3 different kinds, so all 5 cats can eat whenever they want. I also give a "smorgesbord" of wet food at least twice a day. Chablis is a picky eater under the best of circumstances, but he does enjoy Greenie treats and tuna. I've been force-feeding him a high calorie vitamin paste every day--I put it on my finger and rub it onto his tongue, so he is hopefully getting the nutrition he needs. I'm just glad that he's eating anything on his own. He won't eat the special kidney diet food--I tried years ago--I imagine it must taste pretty horrid, it looks horrid. At this point I'm not going to further stress him by force-feeding the special diet food--I want him to enjoy whatever time he has left. Thanks for your input.

Norachan · Aug 2, 2015

I'm glad to hear he's showing some signs of improvement. I think you're right, any food is better than nothing at all, so if he wants to live on treats you should let him. He sounds much happier than he was a few weeks ago too. I hope you get a lot more time together.

mrsgreenjeens · Aug 3, 2015

MsAimee said:
I keep free standing dry food out all day--3 different kinds, so all 5 cats can eat whenever they want.

When my LAST kidney cat died, I pulled up all the dry food in the house and immediately put all remaining cats on an all wet food regime. I said "no more kidney disease in this house!" because I am convinced it's caused by feeding kibble. Well, within a year my then 13 year old female was diagnosed with it, but I figure it was because for 12 years she ate kibble

. Either that or our horribly hard water where we live. So now I feed canned only, with lots of (filtered) water added to it. And I use filtered water in their fountain. I'm hoping I can spare the youngest two from getting this insidious disease. Three of our 9 cats so far have had it

msaimee · Aug 3, 2015

My cats get a combination of wet and dry food--the dry food choices are good premium brands. Two of them won't eat canned food at all, but will eat some of the Fancy Feast Appetizers, which I mix with water, or some tuna water. I've learned that you can't force a cat to eat something it doesn't like. Also, I live by myself and work long hours, and I'd rather leave out free standing dry food than have them not eat for 14 hours at a time. Two of my cats are 15 years old. I know people want to find a reason for kidney failure occurring in cats or some way to prevent it--but the fact is that a cat living to the age of 15 is the equivalent of a person living to the age of 80. When cats get old, they're going to die from something--kidney disease or some other ailment. All we can do is the best we can do within the limits of our situations and resources to take care of them.

This morning when Chablis saw me take out the sub q fluid bag, he led me on quite a chase throughout the house--up and down the stairs, under the bed, behind the couch. WOW, what a change in energy level from 2 weeks ago! Once I got caught him, he was fine with the 5 minute treatment--it's routine now. So all of this is giving him some more decent quality time with me and the other cats, which I am appreciating every day. I would love for him to have a few more months with me

Thanks, Ondine, for your kind wishes. I appreciate it.

ginny · Sep 18, 2015

Hi MsAimee,

I see it's been over a month since anyone has replied, but I've just now seen this. I had a kitty named Sammy who had CRF. He was a purebred persian and lived to the age of 13. I think (not sure) Sammy lived about 6 months after the point in time where I started giving him the SQ fluids. He hated that so much, bless him. On Thanksgiving Day in 2006 I took him to the ER vet. Can't recall why now but he was declining. I had to chase him to get him in his carrier so I knew he had some life left in him. The vet recommended matter of factly to put him down that day. I disagreed based on how he was acting. I knew him better than that vet did, and you know your cat better than your vet does too! So, don't let them talk you into doing what doesn't feel right, for any reason - wrong time, wrong vet, any reason at all. Sammy lived another 2 weeks after that. He passed away at home while I was at work. My mom was with him and called me to come home. My point is that I knew he wasn't ready to go when the vet thought he should. I feel for you. it's hard to say goodbye to a pet.

msaimee · Sep 23, 2015

Thanks for your response. My vet wasn't trying to talk me into euthanizing Chablis that day, she was giving me my options. She didn't think my suggestion of taking him home and giving him subQ fluids was going to have a long-lasting impact on him--she thought he'd pass in a week or two in that scenario-- but here we are 9 weeks later and he is holding his own--eating on his own, able to move around, and grooming himself. So I am glad that I listened to myself and did what I thought was right for him. He's lost more weight, but that may also be due to his hyperthyroidism and his meds may need to be upped. Somehow with kidney disease I don't think too many cats pass away on their own peacefully at home because when the end is near most have seizures, stop eating, and their organs shut down. You're very fortunate that yours died peacefully at home--it also spared you from having to make the decision to euthanize. I think Chablis may still have a few decent months left, but I'm taking it one day at a time. Thanks for your support and encouragement.

mollyblue · Sep 23, 2015

Our vet kept saying Alex was going to go within days, and possibly hours away from death for her whole last year or maybe a bit longer. While the vet may have just been giving us options, I really felt like the option they would prefer was euthanization. I have no regrets about not euthanizing Alex. Yes, she declined slowy and slipped away... and while it was not pleasant, it was not altogether unpleasant. I would not say that on her deathbed she was suffering. When a cat begins to refuse food and water, their senses shut down. The body has its own natural pain management and force feeding food and liquids prolongs the agony. We did the subq fluids, and as long as they were helping her to feel better we continued. Alex reached a point though she lost interest in food, and we knew it was time to discontinue the treatments. She used the litter box on her own up until the last 24 hours. When her ability to walk began slipping away, she meowed to be taken to her box. The last12 hours though I just told her she was too weak for me to even take her. I just comforted her and changed her bedding to keep her dry. Some people would say "You allowed your cat to suffer and starve to death", and I can equally say "After years of faithful service, you murdered yours." Euthanasia is a personal choice, a legal option, and one our cat made her feelings clearly known she didn't approve of. Other cats, even some humans, I believe would prefer it... our baby just wanted us to hold her hand and be there for her. Luckily we work different shifts, someone was always home with her.

I'm glad your cat is doing well on the subq fluids. Enjoy the time you have with her! I learned a lot from my cat the last year of her life.

You will know when its time to say goodbye, regardless of you choose to say it.

kittens mom · Sep 23, 2015

MollyBlue said:
Our vet kept saying Alex was going to go within days, and possibly hours away from death for her whole last year or maybe a bit longer. While the vet may have just been giving us options, I really felt like the option they would prefer was euthanization. I have no regrets about not euthanizing Alex. Yes, she declined slowy and slipped away... and while it was not pleasant, it was not altogether unpleasant. I would not say that on her deathbed she was suffering. When a cat begins to refuse food and water, their senses shut down. The body has its own natural pain management and force feeding food and liquids prolongs the agony. We did the subq fluids, and as long as they were helping her to feel better we continued. Alex reached a point though she lost interest in food, and we knew it was time to discontinue the treatments. She used the litter box on her own up until the last 24 hours. When her ability to walk began slipping away, she meowed to be taken to her box. The last12 hours though I just told her she was too weak for me to even take her. I just comforted her and changed her bedding to keep her dry. Some people would say "You allowed your cat to suffer and starve to death", and I can equally say "After years of faithful service, you murdered yours." Euthanasia is a personal choice, a legal option, and one our cat made her feelings clearly known she didn't approve of. Other cats, even some humans, I believe would prefer it... our baby just wanted us to hold her hand and be there for her. Luckily we work different shifts, someone was always home with her.

I'm glad your cat is doing well on the subq fluids. Enjoy the time you have with her! I learned a lot from my cat the last year of her life. You will know when its time to say goodbye, regardless of you choose to say it.

I cried reading your post. You are so spot on.

kittens mom · Sep 23, 2015

CowAndChicken3 said:
Im against what has to be done, but thats that (you do it when the cat uhhhhhhhh is old)

I think it is a case by case and personal decision made between the owner and the vet. But no we don't put our pets down just because they get old. Many animals young and old lead happy lives with some level of supportive care. I don't think anyone is suggesting letting an animal suffer rather than choose euthanasia. On the other hand dying is part of the animals natural life cycle. Not necessarily horrible or painful or even distressing to the pet. It's usually the humans having the issues. Sometimes you get to make a choice and sometimes you don't.

msaimee · Sep 23, 2015

Each cat is different, each cat owner is different, and each situation is different. Judging when a cat is in pain can be a difficult thing to do. If Chablis stops eating, stops being active, and no longer responds to being petted, I will know it's time to do the merciful thing and have him euthanized. But until then I will be thankful for each day I have with him.

ginny · Sep 23, 2015

MsAimee,

I'm glad you wrote and I'm so glad to hear your kitty is doing well, and that you listened to your instincts.

pdxcatmom · Nov 1, 2015

Hello all,

I found this post 2 days after having had to put down my 21 year old cat, Sophie, who was sick with CRF and had stopped eating and drinking. I was having second thoughts as to if I should have hospitalized her instead (against vet advice), but after reading about some of your experiences with that I have a clearer idea that perhaps I did the right thing after all by euthanizing her at home with me at her side in a peaceful loving atmosphere. Thank you all for posting your experiences. I am so sorry for your losses.

Six months after a bad CRF crash last spring my Sophie was doing well on 100ml of fluids every other day and was eating well until she developed a bad cold and stopped eating. I later learned that the cold, possibly from a herpes virus lurking inside her, had developed from being dehydrated—which I failed to completely recognize at the time. I'll admit it—I'm not much of a nurse. One thing I've learned from this whole experience is to not under appreciate the life-giving effects of subcu fluids. Was it the one or 2 times I missed a day in the past 2 weeks? Now I suspect it was, and by the time I realized she needed more and tried to play catch up, it was too late. This is the second cat I've lost to CRF, so another lesson learned. Don't slip up on giving fluids.

msaimee · Nov 1, 2015

Your cat was 21 years-old which is a very long, rich life for a cat. By giving him the sub q fluids you gave him extra time. Please don't feel guilty for not giving him more than fluids every other day. I'm the originator of this thread. My 15.5 year old Chablis is still alive more than 3 months after he was diagnosed with end stage kidney disease. The first month I gave him daily fluids. Then I gave it every other day. The past month I've been giving him the 100 ml every 3 days and this is likely the dose I will maintain. There is the financial cost to consider and also the fact that he is distressed when I give him the fluids and shakes and has rapid heart beat. If he passes while on this dose I won't feel guilty because I've already given him much more time than the vet said he would have. So feel at peace that you gave him all he needed and it simply was his time to pass.

kittens mom · Nov 1, 2015

pdxcatmom said:
Hello all,

I found this post 2 days after having had to put down my 21 year old cat, Sophie, who was sick with CRF and had stopped eating and drinking. I was having second thoughts as to if I should have hospitalized her instead (against vet advice), but after reading about some of your experiences with that I have a clearer idea that perhaps I did the right thing after all by euthanizing her at home with me at her side in a peaceful loving atmosphere. Thank you all for posting your experiences. I am so sorry for your losses.

Six months after a bad CRF crash last spring my Sophie was doing well on 100ml of fluids every other day and was eating well until she developed a bad cold and stopped eating. I later learned that the cold, possibly from a herpes virus lurking inside her, had developed from being dehydrated—which I failed to completely recognize at the time. I'll admit it—I'm not much of a nurse. One thing I've learned from this whole experience is to not under appreciate the life-giving effects of subcu fluids. Was it the one or 2 times I missed a day in the past 2 weeks? Now I suspect it was, and by the time I realized she needed more and tried to play catch up, it was too late. This is the second cat I've lost to CRF, so another lesson learned. Don't slip up on giving fluids.

At 21 your cat died of the complications of old age not any neglect on your part no matter how slight. To me it sounds like you understood the difference between giving her a bit of golden time and when it became more for you than her.

pdxcatmom · Nov 1, 2015

Thank you for your kind words MsAimee. I'm glad to hear your Chablis is still going strong :-)

pdxcatmom · Nov 1, 2015

Thank you Kittens Mom. It always helps to hear from others that have been through losing a pet.

kittens mom · Nov 1, 2015

pdxcatmom said:
Thank you Kittens Mom. It always helps to hear from others that have been through losing a pet.

We all second guess. I am so sorry for your loss. You found a good place. Everyone here has, is or will be where you are today. Be at peace with your decision . It's the only one you had. I'm pretty sure there are sections here to memorialize your cat .

msaimee · Nov 16, 2015

I want to ask for your thoughts, prayers, and vibes for Chablis and for myself. He's taken a turn for the worse since yesterday morning. He's not moving around very much, his eyes are half closed when he's awake, and he's not purring when I pet him. Yesterday when I gave him SubQ fluids, he was sleeping through it and I didn't notice that he had rolled onto the needle. It gave him a nasty wound and he bled all over the place, I felt horrible. Today he finally ate a little tuna fish but hasn't had much of an appetite. His breath is terrible, and he's lost a lot of weight. Tomorrow I'll have to make the decision whether to take him to the Humane Society to be put to sleep, to give it some more time and hope he'll pass on his own, or take him back to the vet for more lab work prior to making a decision. The vet is a half hour drive away and I hate to put him through all that, but I want to make sure I'm making the right decision, too. Tonite after he ate a little tuna I gave him more SubQ fluids and will see if he's any better tomorrow. Please pray that I'll have guidance to know what to do over the next few days and that he and I will have peace. Here's a picture I took of him this AM. His buddy of 15 years, Leo, is standing watch over him.

Chablis&Leo.jpg

msaimee
Nov 16, 2015

zed xyzed · Nov 16, 2015

Midi and I will keep you and Chablis in our prayers. He bounced back once because you never gave up on him. I hope he surprises you again.

End stage kidney disease-when to euthanize

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Kittens life was lost to a negligent veterinarian.

Kittens life was lost to a negligent veterinarian.

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Kittens life was lost to a negligent veterinarian.

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Kittens life was lost to a negligent veterinarian.

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